Leg 2 of 50 Amp showing OFF in 2005 Monaco Executive

[amphi_sc]

What's the labelling for the circuit breakers?  Every other breaker position will be on leg 1 and the other alternating ones on leg 2.  So you put your box back together...black wire on the upper terminal of the double 50 amp breaker, black/red on the other terminal.  Thus the single breaker position immediately below the black/red wire that has the 2 20 amp breakers on that one single breaker position will be on the leg powered by the black leg.  The next lower breaker (hard to read?  A 30 amp single??) will be powered by the black/red leg.  The bottom 20 amp single powered by the black leg.  Now read the labels on the breakers and verify those circuits are indeed powered.  It is possible both your AC's are unbalanced on the same leg, but easy enough to verify by the position of those breakers in the panel.

Do you follow what I'm saying to verify the loads are indeed being powered by which leg by checking the labels vs position in the box?  It could just be a monitoring display "problem".

Easy enough to verify the other breakers are indeed powered with volt meter set to appropriate AC range and "red" probe on breaker output terminal and black probe on the box common bus that has all the white neutral wires connected.

Do you have a sub panel or are your microwave and outlets powered by and protected by breakers on the inverter?  And thus not labeled in the main box?

Edited September 21, 2023 by amphi_sc

[Frank McElroy]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:47 AM, rschley said:

Posted previously in March. Still an issue. Brought to shop and they didn’t help much. 
I don’t have power on Leg 2, per Kenwood display. Happens on both shore and generator. Checked ATS ( not IOTA brand) 120 in as well as 240 out on shore and generator. Tightened all lugs. Went to panel, tightened all lugs.  Tested incoming and outgoing lugs on Breaker.  120 and 240 in and out each lug. Removed breaker from panel and tested continuity on both sides of the breaker and was good. Now, with both incoming wires exposed, I tested each wire to the silver connection in the panel and one was 120 and other was 0. Appears power is getting to both legs in but not continuing on with one of the legs. Any suggestions?? 

See page 243 in the attached wiring diagram.  Are both Aladdin sensor fuses good and do you have 240 volts power out of the transfer switch on the same cables that the Aladdin sees?  Also, do you have a 240 volt clothes dryer and if so have you checked that panel box for 240 volts in and out? 

 

[rschley]

1 hour ago, amphi_sc said:

What's the labelling for the circuit breakers?  Every other breaker position will be on leg 1 and the other alternating ones on leg 2.  So you put your box back together...black wire on the upper terminal of the double 50 amp breaker, black/red on the other terminal.  Thus the single breaker position immediately below the black/red wire that has the 2 20 amp breakers on that one single breaker position will be on the leg powered by the black leg.  The next lower breaker (hard to read?  A 30 amp single??) will be powered by the black/red leg.  The bottom 20 amp single powered by the black leg.  Now read the labels on the breakers and verify those circuits are indeed powered.  It is possible both your AC's are unbalanced on the same leg, but easy enough to verify by the position of those breakers in the panel.

Do you follow what I'm saying to verify the loads are indeed being powered by which leg by checking the labels vs position in the box?  It could just be a monitoring display "problem".

Easy enough to verify the other breakers are indeed powered with volt meter set to appropriate AC range and "red" probe on breaker output terminal and black probe on the box common bus that has all the white neutral wires connected.

Do you have a sub panel or are your microwave and outlets powered by and protected by breakers on the inverter?  And thus not labeled in the main box?

That makes perfect sense. I think that I can follow that. So, if Leg 2 were really inop, many of my outlets and appliances would not work?
Both ACs have run on Leg 1, but oftentimes reluctant to have the compressor kick in. 
No sub panels. I can check for markings.  
I will check this weekend. 
 

Thanks!!  Making me think. Learning a lot.  

[Dr4Film]

9 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

Looking at his picture I wonder what the Black w/white stripe wire on the bottom lug is feeding?  The top lug has no wire attached so that bus lug is not passing power to anything.

That specific wire is the neutral wire which is feeding the neutral bar where all of the white neutral wires are tied into from each load. There is no need to have one at the top too.

The 50 amp 6 gauge wire has four cables, one black, one red/black, one white/black and one bare ground cable.

[Tom Cherry]

STAFF EDIT - 9-22-2023 - 8:00 am

Based on late night discussions, this topic is totally disjointed and there is inconsistency in @rschley input.  Therefore, this topic is to be taken offline and any member wishing to provide recommendations and assistance should do such. This was a joint decision....Have edited last night's post based on our conclusions.

END of EDIT

• Folks, from the moderating staff's viewpoint, there are a lot of questions and comments and also, perhaps some confusion as some of the comments are not germane to this coach.  This, from the Staff's perspective, is happening a bit more frequently and we are trying to get the problem solved, but it gets confusing.  So, here is what I understand, and I am NOT infallible...so if I get it wrong....then chime in.  But if you pull the prints and have had experience with the basic 50 Amp service, then here goes.
• All the Dynasty through Signatures had the same 50 Amp configuration, UNLESS there was a custom feature added.  Look at the print below.  Blow up @rschley first picture.  It looks, to me....and again....verify, that he has the standard 50 Amp drawing.
• There was a question about Subpanels.  Yes there is a subpanel, but it is NOT the issue.  If you want to see the subpanel, then I did pull the print for you to study. This is what is called a Dual IN and Dual OUT system.  He has, unless things have changed, a TRACE inverter.  There were SOME MH that had DUAL inverters, but again, that does NOT impact the issues here.
• As far as GFCI's and Pedestals and such go.  There is NOT a universal, all over the US NEC regulation.  NOW, there have been SO MANY discussions about GRCI and what UL and NEC are doing or have proposed or are thinking about....and this should not be the focus here.  Each State or Municipality may have addendums or specific requirements that are UNIQUE to it....and by the same token, there are scads of building inspectors that have almost God Like Jurisdiction and they can, at their discretion, decide if some little quirk or their interpretation is correct.  Having upgraded plants and build plants all over the US and Internationally, I have one rule of THUMB.  The local guy is always right, unless complying with his understanding is gonna triple the electrical portion of a project....and then you have to tactfully convince him of why the Architect/Engineering company drew up the prints and that is why we want to MILTP (Make It Like The Print) and the Prints are stamped with a PE's certification....
• SO....as far as how @rschley home pedestal is wired....if the electrician is complying with the local code or the MN code....then that is it....and going down the rabbit hole is non productive. I have camped at Parks run by the City...and there were THREE 50 Amp sites.  OK....WHAT IS WRONG HERE? The City (or their contractor) installed THREE FAKE 50's They are IN PHASE 50's, with a 50 Amp breaker...but there is only Line 1 and Neutral and Ground in the panel.  I took it apart (on the sly) and then tested the other two.  I sent a nice email to the CG Manager and never heard back...so, never, as many of our members have learned, depend on a 50 Amp to be a REAL, per Code, 50 Amp service (out of phase) with Line 1 and Line 2 and Neutral and Ground and the Neutral and Ground are NOT bonded in the pedestal, but are Bonded at the first Upstream Panel....per code.  OK...moving on.

@Frank McElroy has chimed in and offers some great advice.  

It is NOT clear if there is 120 VAC coming to the panel based on the description of the measurements and no feedback on that as requested. 

@rschley Please measure as previously requested. 

Top Feed #6 Cables.  Measure BOTH with Generator ON and Shore on.

Cable Ends - Black to Red (Black with Red Stripe) - Should be 240 VAC on BOTH Genny and Shore

Cable Ends - Black and Red to White Lug - Termination Point (Black with White Stripe) - Should be 120 VAC

Cable Ends - Black and Red to Ground Lug - Termination Point - Should be 120 VAC

IF BOTH LUGS HAVE POWER....as in the above measurements, then PERHAPS a NEW 50 Amp Breaker would be a great, money saving (as in NOT paying a tech or an electrician) investment.  IF there is an issue in the main panel, then use the NoAlox or GB on the two tabs in the panel to restore some conductivity.  It WILL NOT HURT and the tabs and the breaker contacts will have protection, as well as increased conductivity.

SO, it might be advisable for @rschley to consider that. I spoke earlier to Frank about the Alladin confusion and will let him follow-up, if needed, on that.

It may also be advisable for @rschley to fully understand how the incoming power is directed.  See the prints.  In addition, do some offline research on voltage measurement for 50 Amp RV circuits.  There are many YouTube videos that detail search as well as many articles written.  Then follow the prints and understand where and how to measure.  If not, then get assistance from a friend with electrical knowledge or bring in an qualified electrician....perhaps the Pedestal installer.  This is NOT a "MH" issue, but a basic Electrical (house) Distribution panel.

Here are two different sets of prints....that might be easier to follow....Note, the Dynasty through Signature has the same distribution save options like a second inverter or "all electric" items and there are optional breakers add (dual - side by side) breakers in the same slot.  

 

It would be beneficial, in the future, for all complex electrical topics if the comments and recommendations were based on the actual MH as well as reviewing the the prints for that rig, rather than generalizations that may not be correct.  We have most of the prints in the file and doing the research before commenting would not lead to the situation here.  Thanks for understanding... 

Thanks....

 

2005 Dynasty - Signature Main 50 Amp panel 38011164.pdf 2005 Dynasty - Signature Main 50 Amp & Inverter panel 38010096.pdf

Edited September 22, 2023 by Tom Cherry
Clarification and request to take offline until resolved and then post the issues and solutions

[Larry Laursen]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:04 PM, rschley said:

I then disconnected the breaker and set it aside (just checked it for continuity and it was ok)  leaving me the Red/Black #6 wire and Black #6 wire with bare ends as shown in the picture. Then in one of those uneducated "just for the heck of it moves" Now with the breaker eliminated from the equation, I ran a meter test from the Black/Red #6 to the bottom snap in tab (previously referred to silver tabs) and had 120v. I then ran a test from the Black #6 to the top snap in tab (previously referred to as the silver tab) and had a reading of 0v. I had expected that to be 120v since the other leg was 120v, leading me to believe this might lead to the problem.

If this is an erroneous way of testing this, please feel free to let me know. My ego will recover.

You need to measure the voltage from the red and black wire to the neutral bus where all the white wires are connected.  The snap-in tab is the output side of the CB.  It should read zero if there isn't anything on in the coach. The reason you got 120 on one side is the TV or another device is probably fed off that side and it has a circuit on waiting for a remote signal and will act to "ground" the CB output.  Measure the voltage again to the neutral wires(white) and see if you get 120 volts.  If you don't then a wire is severed between the ATS and the distribution panel.

[Dr4Film]

Larry, that exact procedure was suggested to him last Wednesday but we haven't heard back as to what the results were. His last post was on Thursday.

[rschley]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:51 PM, Tom Cherry said:

STAFF EDIT - 9-22-2023 - 8:00 am

Based on late night discussions, this topic is totally disjointed and there is inconsistency in @rschley input.  Therefore, this topic is to be taken offline and any member wishing to provide recommendations and assistance should do such. This was a joint decision....Have edited last night's post based on our conclusions.

END of EDIT

• Folks, from the moderating staff's viewpoint, there are a lot of questions and comments and also, perhaps some confusion as some of the comments are not germane to this coach.  This, from the Staff's perspective, is happening a bit more frequently and we are trying to get the problem solved, but it gets confusing.  So, here is what I understand, and I am NOT infallible...so if I get it wrong....then chime in.  But if you pull the prints and have had experience with the basic 50 Amp service, then here goes.
• All the Dynasty through Signatures had the same 50 Amp configuration, UNLESS there was a custom feature added.  Look at the print below.  Blow up @rschley first picture.  It looks, to me....and again....verify, that he has the standard 50 Amp drawing.
• There was a question about Subpanels.  Yes there is a subpanel, but it is NOT the issue.  If you want to see the subpanel, then I did pull the print for you to study. This is what is called a Dual IN and Dual OUT system.  He has, unless things have changed, a TRACE inverter.  There were SOME MH that had DUAL inverters, but again, that does NOT impact the issues here.
• As far as GFCI's and Pedestals and such go.  There is NOT a universal, all over the US NEC regulation.  NOW, there have been SO MANY discussions about GRCI and what UL and NEC are doing or have proposed or are thinking about....and this should not be the focus here.  Each State or Municipality may have addendums or specific requirements that are UNIQUE to it....and by the same token, there are scads of building inspectors that have almost God Like Jurisdiction and they can, at their discretion, decide if some little quirk or their interpretation is correct.  Having upgraded plants and build plants all over the US and Internationally, I have one rule of THUMB.  The local guy is always right, unless complying with his understanding is gonna triple the electrical portion of a project....and then you have to tactfully convince him of why the Architect/Engineering company drew up the prints and that is why we want to MILTP (Make It Like The Print) and the Prints are stamped with a PE's certification....
• SO....as far as how @rschley home pedestal is wired....if the electrician is complying with the local code or the MN code....then that is it....and going down the rabbit hole is non productive. I have camped at Parks run by the City...and there were THREE 50 Amp sites.  OK....WHAT IS WRONG HERE? The City (or their contractor) installed THREE FAKE 50's They are IN PHASE 50's, with a 50 Amp breaker...but there is only Line 1 and Neutral and Ground in the panel.  I took it apart (on the sly) and then tested the other two.  I sent a nice email to the CG Manager and never heard back...so, never, as many of our members have learned, depend on a 50 Amp to be a REAL, per Code, 50 Amp service (out of phase) with Line 1 and Line 2 and Neutral and Ground and the Neutral and Ground are NOT bonded in the pedestal, but are Bonded at the first Upstream Panel....per code.  OK...moving on.

@Frank McElroy has chimed in and offers some great advice.  

It is NOT clear if there is 120 VAC coming to the panel based on the description of the measurements and no feedback on that as requested. 

@rschley Please measure as previously requested. 

Top Feed #6 Cables.  Measure BOTH with Generator ON and Shore on.

Cable Ends - Black to Red (Black with Red Stripe) - Should be 240 VAC on BOTH Genny and Shore

Cable Ends - Black and Red to White Lug - Termination Point (Black with White Stripe) - Should be 120 VAC

Cable Ends - Black and Red to Ground Lug - Termination Point - Should be 120 VAC

IF BOTH LUGS HAVE POWER....as in the above measurements, then PERHAPS a NEW 50 Amp Breaker would be a great, money saving (as in NOT paying a tech or an electrician) investment.  IF there is an issue in the main panel, then use the NoAlox or GB on the two tabs in the panel to restore some conductivity.  It WILL NOT HURT and the tabs and the breaker contacts will have protection, as well as increased conductivity.

SO, it might be advisable for @rschley to consider that. I spoke earlier to Frank about the Alladin confusion and will let him follow-up, if needed, on that.

It may also be advisable for @rschley to fully understand how the incoming power is directed.  See the prints.  In addition, do some offline research on voltage measurement for 50 Amp RV circuits.  There are many YouTube videos that detail search as well as many articles written.  Then follow the prints and understand where and how to measure.  If not, then get assistance from a friend with electrical knowledge or bring in an qualified electrician....perhaps the Pedestal installer.  This is NOT a "MH" issue, but a basic Electrical (house) Distribution panel.

Here are two different sets of prints....that might be easier to follow....Note, the Dynasty through Signature has the same distribution save options like a second inverter or "all electric" items and there are optional breakers add (dual - side by side) breakers in the same slot.  

 

It would be beneficial, in the future, for all complex electrical topics if the comments and recommendations were based on the actual MH as well as reviewing the the prints for that rig, rather than generalizations that may not be correct.  We have most of the prints in the file and doing the research before commenting would not lead to the situation here.  Thanks for understanding... 

Thanks....

 

2005 Dynasty - Signature Main 50 Amp panel 38011164.pdf 171.7 kB · 1 download 2005 Dynasty - Signature Main 50 Amp & Inverter panel 38010096.pdf 185.25 kB · 1 download

 

Thanks for your input. With new breaker and AlnoOx, I did as you suggested and have proper voltage to both lugs and to to negative strip ( one with the white wires). Using a noncontact voltage tester,  each black wire leading to each circuit breaker is showing current. Assuming all is Ok. 
Kenwood is still showing Leg 2 is OFF. 
I understand that the forum discussion is done. I will review Kenwood related input and see what I can figure out. 
Thanks to all for the help. Great source of info and encouragement. 
Take care to all of you ! 

[rschley]

On 9/21/2023 at 9:23 AM, amphi_sc said:

Looking at his picture I wonder what the Black w/white stripe wire on the bottom lug is feeding?  The top lug has no wire attached so that bus lug is not passing power to anything. Is that Black w/white stripe wire feeding a sub breaker box for a 120v washer - dryer combination? Or to a single in inverter?  (I.e. where does your inverter/ charger get its power?)

On my coach, power likewise comes in thru the double breaker to power the bus bars which in turn powers the other breakers AND the top & bottom lugs which feed 240v to my 240v dryer sub panel which has the breakers feeding the dryer.  The inverter/charger has two breakers feeding it power from box via 10 ga wire.  And my inverter then powers another adjacent sub panel for the sockets, fridge, TV, microwave, etc... I'm not getting a clear understanding of your particular electrical setup 

What's the underlying problem you are trying to solve? Is it that your Aladdin display shows a leg as off?  When in fact all circuits work fine?  Is your transfer switch feeding the Aladdin display?  If so it could be one of the monitor wires in the transfer switch is disconnected from the output side of the transfer switch thus the Aladdin doesn't see power on that one leg even though power is indeed on that leg.

Thanks for input.  Aladdin shows Leg 2 as OFF. Testing incoming power as well as outgoing from newly installed circuit breaker and all look good.  Alladin appears to be wrong.  

On 9/23/2023 at 10:40 PM, Larry Laursen said:

You need to measure the voltage from the red and black wire to the neutral bus where all the white wires are connected.  The snap-in tab is the output side of the CB.  It should read zero if there isn't anything on in the coach. The reason you got 120 on one side is the TV or another device is probably fed off that side and it has a circuit on waiting for a remote signal and will act to "ground" the CB output.  Measure the voltage again to the neutral wires(white) and see if you get 120 volts.  If you don't then a wire is severed between the ATS and the distribution panel.

You are right. Measuring to negative ground shows 120. Installed new breaker. Aladdin still shows Leg 2 out.  All else tests fine. 

[rschley]

All the responses were great and I learned a lot. Applied the last suggestion and the problem still persists. I will now focus on seeing if the Alladin is giving me an erroneous message.  

[Tom Cherry]

37 minutes ago, rschley said:

All the responses were great and I learned a lot. Applied the last suggestion and the problem still persists. I will now focus on seeing if the Alladin is giving me an erroneous message.  

WHOA.  From the top.  Have you measured all the voltages, with a VOM, inside the main panel.  Not to be receptive, but with your new breaker, measure L1 -L2 = 240 V.; Measure L1 & L2 (incoming) on the breaker, to both Ground and Neutral.  120 V; Now with all breakers ON….measure the output or where the blacks are connected on EACH breaker to Ground and Neutral. 120 V.  

If all that checks out, then repeat with Generator this time.  If all that is fine….you do NOT have a problem.  Your problem is (may be )in the “special” buss or feed from the ATS to your Aladdin. That is a weak link.  There is NO FIXING IT.  The NEW or replacement ATS is not compatible with the Aladdin….TRC/SurgeGuard/asouthwire did not make a suitable replacement. The line from the ATS is NOT a conventional method of measuring or communicating Voltage and Current…it is a “dedicated” input to the Aladdin.  So, never believe the Alladin until you test the source.  Otherwise, you may be chasing a bad component or such in the ATS or the line or the Aladdin.  Assuming you have followed the advice here and made sure that the new breaker snaps into the two busses and there was no corrosion on the tabs that snap into the new breaker.

Thats the bottom line.

 

[horseman]

This has been dry confusing, but you were given good advice. If you now have 120 volts from black and red/black to ground (black/white) and you have 240 volts between black and black/red at bottom of 50 amp breaker with both shore power and generator-everything in incoming source wiring to breaker is alright.

 Next with all breakers on test from bottom of all 120 volt breakers to the neutral ( black/white). Should have 120  volts on each .wire. If not- re-set or replace breakers.

if you have 120 volts on all black wires on breaker you may have addition electrical protection circuits that feed from bottom of breaker to the electronic board then Roth actual circui wire. My 2009 knight 41skq had this. The circuit boards are usually right along side the distribution panel. The breakers should be marked so you a trace wire from the bottom of breaker to electronic board. Find load wire from circuit board and test for 120 volts. If you get 120 volts there the circuit wiring to your house monitor is bad.if you get 0 volts -disconnect circuit wire from electronic board and place circuit wire going to your monitor directly into breaker-if this corrects issue  replace electronic board.

 

 

 

If you still have issues or would like to discuss more give mea call 315-391-1316. I train electricians and high voltage power lineman, I may be able to talk you through this. A picture of the compartment were your electrical distribution panel is would really help to see if you have these extra electronic circuit boards

[Tom Cherry]

17 minutes ago, horseman said:

This has been dry confusing, but you were given good advice. If you now have 120 volts from black and red/black to ground (black/white) and you have 240 volts between black and black/red at bottom of 50 amp breaker with both shore power and generator-everything in incoming source wiring to breaker is alright.

 Next with all breakers on test from bottom of all 120 volt breakers to the neutral ( black/white). Should have 120  volts on each .wire. If not- re-set or replace breakers.

if you have 120 volts on all black wires on breaker you may have addition electrical protection circuits that feed from bottom of breaker to the electronic board then Roth actual circui wire. My 2009 knight 41skq had this. The circuit boards are usually right along side the distribution panel. The breakers should be marked so you a trace wire from the bottom of breaker to electronic board. Find load wire from circuit board and test for 120 volts. If you get 120 volts there the circuit wiring to your house monitor is bad.if you get 0 volts -disconnect circuit wire from electronic board and place circuit wire going to your monitor directly into breaker-if this corrects issue  replace electronic board.

If you still have issues or would like to discuss more give mea call 315-391-1316. I train electricians and high voltage power lineman, I may be able to talk you through this. A picture of the compartment were your electrical distribution panel is would really help to see if you have these extra electronic circuit boards

@horseman…. @rschley does NOT have the Intellect EMS like your coach does.  He has a sophisticated ATS that was designed for a data buss connection to his Aladdin monitor.  Many folks have had that ATS fail.  

The bottom line is that Ron has reported a lot of measurements, but his wording or maybe umderstanding of how go measure the main panel has been extremely confusing….and some of our folks are not able to provide the help.  If you go back and carefully read the posts and requests for conventional or proper measurement of his main panel, after, we THINK, he replaced or was going to replace the main 50 Amp breaker….Then it becomes clear.

We need the simple information.  If you can assist him, that would be great.  However, be aware that he ONLY needs to give us the basics.  We don’t know if he has “really” lost a leg or if he meant that his Aladdin “has lost a leg”.  We (I?) think he may have had a corroded or poor connection on the snap in tab or buss connection on one side of the breaker….but his responses have been a bit sketchy.

We need to know if now has FULL power inside the panel or if there is an open circuit upstream….which means his ATS is defective.

If you can get the data that I outlined….then we can continue to help…otherwise, all of our bette troubleshooters are stymied.  I tried to simplify what we need.  But  please also bear in mind….NO EMS,  Just a plain Jane basic 50 amp panel.  NOW, for the record….it is an interesting variation….in that he has a Dual In & Dual Out Inverter….and he has a downstream sub panel.  These are in the prints.  His issue, as we 7 understand it…he has an open (or did) in the main…so all the measurement points must be made….on shore or Genny.  Also bear in mind…he has a 240 VAC Genny…not a dual, in phase, 120 VAC like you have.  So if he gets the appropriate voltage readings on shore, that needs to be remeasured for his genny….as they will be exactly alike,

Thanks for offering offline assistance….

 

 

[horseman]

Thanks for info, I did not know what system he had, and I am not familiar with the ATS. That said there was a lot of confusion in what was being measured and recorded. This is a simple step by step process that if followed will lead him to the problem. 
 

I always recommend a multimeter for conducting tests. Start at 50 amp in coming wires in distribution panel, depending on that result work forward or backwards to problem (0 or low voltage).

From posts it seemed the tests at bottom of 50 amp breaker had produced 120, 120, 240 volts.  Testing the output of each individual circuit breaker 120 volts will determine which direction to go from there. If any are 0 volts-reset breaker and try again. If still 0 volts pull breaker and test at top panel stab for breaker . If 0 volts at stab the problem is in panel or main breaker.

If all breakers test 120 volts at bottom the problem is either wiring or Alladin.

there are reasonably priced signal generators that will apply a signal on the wire that use a receiver that can be used to trace wire to the problem spot. 
Not sure of alladin system, but pulling and testing incoming wire for proper voltage may also determine if this is just a failure on that.

[bandmmorris]

I had this problem a few years ago. It turned out that inside the cord reel there are 3 contactors, 1 for each hot leg and one for the ground. One of the hot legs had become corroded / burned and would not make contact thusly only one hot let. At first I could rotate the reel slightly and get contact. Ultimately that would not work. I took our the reel and make a new contact out of a piece of flat copper I bought at a hardware store. Once replace everything worked fine and still is working fine. It wasn't a big effort to remove the reel (through a panel in the closet) and replace the bad contactor.