Roadmaster S-Series Suspension Air Spring/Air Bag Replacement

[jacwjames]

On 1/5/2024 at 3:23 PM, zmotorsports said:

I'm not saying I'm any better or not based on what someone does for a living, it's just interesting the way our minds work.  I will say I don't go around throwing rocks at what others do or criticize their techniques when I have no idea what I'm talking about.  I just try to stay in my lane and do what I do to the best of my ability and hope my works stands out from the masses in my field.

 

Ditto

 

When I was a mine manager the mechanics didn't have a good way to safely work on the front bucket area of the LHD (Load Haul Dump) loader.  The best they could do drive the loader to a wall, lift the bucket up and jamb it against the wall up high.  No way it could come down but that limited what they could do. 

Knew there had to be a better way so I drew out a set of extendable stands using thick wall tubing, with a removable pin so the internal tube could be raised/lowered to the right height.   The tubing and pins were all way over designed.   This was mounted on a large pad.  As assembled it was very heavy so we came up with a set of wheels that you could tip it and wheel it around.  This was in ~1986.  Worked great, never had a problem with them. 

Fast forward to ~2007 I had left that company but then another company bought the mines after being shut down.  The mobile shop was still using the stands built 20 years before.  They brought in an Australian GM who in turn brought in some of his old cronies, one was eventually placed in the maintenance department over mobile equipment that I managed.  He was very knowledgeable and coming from AUS had a different level of risk.  He would not accept the stands since they were not purchased new or certified. 

I had way too much else to do then argue with him, so I let him replaced with new.   

Not a big deal since at the time I was spending ~+$1M a week or more on stuff to get the mines up and running from being shut down.  Heck at one time the company gave me a blank check and I went to an auction to buy a bunch of land directly above an active mining area that I knew would be a problem if it was subdivided and houses built.   I presented the proposal to Switzerland corp office and was give verbal approval.   Spent +$500K😁  Sorry for the tangent, just wanted to show my head was/is. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7 by jacwjames

[mello1]

Great job....I'm sure my unit is in need . whats your opinion of shocks....also any experience or opinion on the Blacktech RML 79376 air bags?

[zmotorsports]

On 1/7/2024 at 7:43 AM, isptbart said:

Mike - a GREAT write up & I really appreciated the photos & advice! I'm very envious of your having the shop space & time to take on such necessary projects! Keep the write ups coming! Many Thanks!

Bart from VA

 

 

Thank you.  I've only had this shop a little over 6 years now.  We sold our previous home of 26 years and bought this newer home and built the shop in late 2016 through mid 2017.  I was finally able to take what was in my head and build my "dream shop", but for the 26 years prior to that I did all RV work outside in front of our old shop.  Like many others I imagine, I had to plan my work around the weather.  My new shop spoils me but I've been wrenching for 35+ years now to finally be in a position to have our current home and shop.  Seems like a lifetime ago since I started wrenching as an Industrial Maintenance Mechanic but not having to rely on anyone else to work on my stuff is priceless.

 

 

On 1/7/2024 at 8:48 AM, jacwjames said:

Ditto

 

When I was a mine manager the mechanics didn't have a good way to safely work on the front bucket area of the LHD (Load Haul Dump) loader.  The best they could do drive the loader to a wall, lift the bucket up and jamb it against the wall up high.  No way it could come down but that limited what they could do. 

Knew there had to be a better way so I drew out a set of extendable stands using thick wall tubing, with a removable pin so the internal tube could be raised/lowered to the right height.   The tubing and pins were all way over designed.   This was mounted on a large pad.  As assembled it was very heavy so we came up with a set of wheels that you could tip it and wheel it around.  This was in ~1986.  Worked great, never had a problem with them. 

Fast forward to ~2007 I had left that company but then another company bought the mines after being shut down.  The mobile shop was still using the stands built 20 years before.  They brought in an Australian GM who in turn brought in some of his old cronies, one was eventually placed in the maintenance department over mobile equipment that I managed.  He was very knowledgeable and coming from AUS had a different level of risk.  He would not accept the stands since they were not purchased new or certified. 

I had way too much else to do then argue with him, so I let him replaced with new.   

Not a big deal since at the time I was spending ~+$1M a week or more on stuff to get the mines up and running from being shut down.  Heck at one time the company gave me a blank check and I went to an auction to buy a bunch of land directly above an active mining area that I knew would be a problem if it was subdivided and houses built.   I presented the proposal to Switzerland corp office and was give verbal approval.   Spent +$500K😁  Sorry for the tangent, just wanted to show my head was/is. 

 

 

I agree Jim.  The company I work for steps over dollars to save pennies when it comes to safety.  We had an old boom lift that we used for nearly 20-years but because they were no longer in business and the weight capacity tag was missing we had to scrap the entire piece of equipment so we could purchase a new one that had the proper safety tags and labels.  The sad thing is the old one was 10x the quality of the new POS.  Newer isn't always better.

 

I am just counting my days until retirement when I don't have to deal with that kind of stupidity any longer.  While I agree that there are some pieces of equipment that are not safe and should have been sent to the scrapyard a decade or more ago, there are so many things that are working perfectly and no need to spend money to replace.  It is sad that we have become such a disposable society and what this once great country has become all due to frivolous law suits and regulations that do nothing but line certain people's pockets. 

 

 

On 1/7/2024 at 12:34 PM, mello1 said:

Great job....I'm sure my unit is in need . whats your opinion of shocks....also any experience or opinion on the Blacktech RML 79376 air bags?

 

Thank you.  I am not a shock expert, but I have been pleased with my Koni FSD shocks that I put on our Dynasty.  As for Blacktech air springs, I have no experience with them at all.  The only air springs I have used are Firestone, Goodyear and Continental (Contitech).  I am not a Goodyear fan at all, so I have avoided using their air springs on anything of my own and have only used them on a friends coach as he purchased them.  I have had good results with the Firestones I have used in the past and for the last 10 years now all we've used at work is Contitech so that is why I went that route when buying air springs for my personal coach.  

 

I appreciate everyone's kind words and hope this documented thread is helpful to others as they go about the maintenance task of replacing air springs.

 

[Tdkkart]

On 1/2/2024 at 5:50 PM, Doug and Nicki said:

I watched a video last week and the guy used a sawsall to cut the threaded studs off the old bags to get them off. He was able to get the blade in between the bag and plate to get this done. Is there any reason that this is not an acceptable way to easily remove the old bags?

Well, yes, probably, but you're not really supposed to tell anyone you resorted to such hackery.

If you find it a challenge to get at the hardware etc, go ahead and cut them off, BUT don't forget you have to get at the very same hardware to put the new ones on also, so you're not gaining much.

[Dean Bennett]

I just finished installing my second set of MH Bags this last spring. The first set was on our 2000 Windsor about 4-years ago then, this spring, on our 1999 Exec. On both rigs there was little or no-room to get a wrench much less an impact on the top nuts. I spent almost a day per bag on the first two bags until I welded up a nut-breaker tool. I should have done this 8-bags ago! The tool was no help running the nuts up, but breaking them loose now takes just a few minutes each. I changed out 3 bags in one day using it. Most of the time was jacking up the axle, removing the wheel and then replacing it when done.

I did use the ‘cribbing’ in the H-Frame approach. I never found it difficult to compress the new bags but, I did fill the old bags before starting to give a fair amount of clearance (the cribbing was about the height of a bag). If I had to compress a bag, I’d place it on the ground, smush it and put my finger over the fill hole to keep it compressed while setting it in place. I hope to never do this again as I’m getting too old to be crawling under rigs!

I did find that a generous amount of Kroil oil on the bolts/nuts beforehand and I could just get a 3/8" Milwaukee M12 cordless ratchet on some of the nuts for running them on and off much quicker. Also, a wheel dolly is worth it's weight in gold.

Edited January 8 by Dean Bennett
Add cribbing

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

13 minutes ago, Dean Bennett said:

I just finished installing my second set of MH Bags this last spring. The first set was on our 2000 Windsor about 4-years ago then, this spring, on our 1999 Exec. On both rigs there was little or no-room to get a wrench much less an impact on the top nuts. I spent almost a day per bag on the first two bags until I welded up a nut-breaker tool. I should have done this 8-bags ago! The tool was no help running the nuts up, but breaking them loose now takes just a few minutes each. I changed out 3 bags in one day using it. Most of the time was jacking up the axle, removing the wheel and then replacing it when done.

I did use the ‘cribbing’ in the H-Frame approach. I never found it difficult to compress the new bags but, I did fill the old bags before starting to give a fair amount of clearance (the cribbing was about the height of a bag). If I had to compress a bag, I’d place it on the ground, smush it and put my finger over the fill hole to keep it compressed while setting it in place. I hope to never do this again as I’m getting too old to be crawling under rigs!

I did find that a generous amount of Kroil oil on the bolts/nuts beforehand and I could just get a 3/8" Milwaukee M12 cordless ratchet on some of the nuts for running them on and off much quicker. Also, a wheel dolly is worth it's weight in gold.

How does that tool work?  I used a 90 degree air wrench to get them loose on my Dynasty. The two in front of the rear wheel were the hardest as access is an issue. Removing the wheels would have made a lot of difference, but would have introduced other problems since I had no way to break the lug nuts loose or retorque them to specs.

[Dean Bennett]

I can not imagine how hard this would be with the tires in place. Especially at my size!

My ‘welded’ wrench would hang down under the rig and I’d put a giant Crecent wrench on it with about a 3’ piece of pipe on the end of it and the nuts would just barely break loose. I guess 20-years of road grime had just about welded the nuts to the bolts. None of my air wrenches generate near the needed torque. I don’t have any right-angle impacts. Let alone fit them up in there. My 3/8” wrench might have fit but, it only does 30-40 ft-lbs. I’m guessing I had to get near 200 ft-lbs or more to break them loose. There is not even enough room above the nuts for a 1/2” wrench with a deep socket (on my rigs).

Amazon/eBay sells a ‘Torque Multipliers’ for less than $100.00 that makes removing lug nuts beyond easy. To re-torque the lug nuts, I got an inline 3/4” digital torque meter for about $75.00 (harbor freight) and a 3/4” breaker bar and a 4’ piece of pipe to put on the end of the breaker bar. I keep the pipe, torque multiplier, breaker bar, tire chocks and a 20-ton jack in the rig just in case I’m in podunks ville and don’t want to be scammed for a tire/service. I’ve been lucky so far. I got a few quotes for changing the bags out this last time. About $500-600/bag. They would really earn their money considering the work involved.

I like the authors idea of lifting the chassis. That would make ‘adjusting’ the bag opening much easier. When my cribbing was a little too tall, I’d have to attach the bag top, then attach the airline and put a very small amount of air in the bag to extend the lower bolts into the holes.

[Brad Loehr]

I have a 2005 HR Endeavor 40DST on the RR8R chassis.  Is that air bag pretty standard?  I am trying to find the part number for the one I need.

[zmotorsports]

19 minutes ago, Brad Loehr said:

I have a 2005 HR Endeavor 40DST on the RR8R chassis.  Is that air bag pretty standard?  I am trying to find the part number for the one I need.

 

Yes, Monaco used the 3/4" port air spring on many models for many years.  Late 90's there were some deviations between some with the 1/4" NPT and the 3/4" NPT but it seems like around 2000~ish they were more standardized amongst Monoco models.   I would double check yours to make certain but the common Firestone part # for the air spring was W01-358-8897 with the 3/4" NPT port.  I used a Continental branded Contitech # AS8897 as it was much more readily available and we have been using the Contitech on our OTR trucks and trailer at work for about 12-15 years now with great results.  

 

 

[jacwjames]

My 2002 Windsor used a Firestone 9376(1T15L-2)

I bought two spares to carry, ContiTech AS9376, purchased from TruckandTrailer.parts $311 including shipping no tax

Hopefully someone with a 2005 can confirm what you have

[zmotorsports]

23 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

My 2002 Windsor used a Firestone 9376(1T15L-2)

I bought two spares to carry, ContiTech AS9376, purchased from TruckandTrailer.parts $311 including shipping no tax

Hopefully someone with a 2005 can confirm what you have

 

 

Jim, if memory serves that was the part # for the one with the 1/4" NPT, is that correct?

 

 

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

My 2000 Dynasty S Series chassis uses the same bag as Jim's Windsor, the Firestone number is W01-358-9376.  

[Brad Loehr]

I went and checked out the bags today and this is what I found on my 2005 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 40DST on the RR8R chassis.

Front air bags were double convoluted Firestone 20F-2 on the bellows which is W01-358-6393 in the catalogue.

The rear air bags were reversable sleeve Firestone 1T115L on the bellows.  Unfortunately this bellow stamp can come in a lot of variants on page 18:

I am thinking by the catalogue that I have either W01-358-8897 or W01-358-9376

I dont feel like screwing around with pulling the upper part of the bag off with that one hard access nut on inside.  I  guess worse case I can reduce the port to 1/4 NPT.  

I reached out to Rev who now sells all Monaco parts and this what they said: (what a joke on price)

'05 Endeavor 40 DST

Double Lobe Air Bag w/ Longer Bumper, Front, part number 10119167, $621.30 each, in stock

Large Rolling Lobe Air Bag w/ Longer Bumper, Rear, part number 10109709, $831.44 each, in stock

You can order parts online at revrvparts.com or call 1-800-509-3417 and speak to any representative to place your order.

 

Firestone Air Spring Catalogue.pdf

[amphi_sc]

Getting ready to change out at least a couple of air bags and want to make sure I have the right Fastenal 69857 reducer.  Thought I'd start with the driver front as you say it's the easiest.  I'm wondering about the airline (see attached photo) as I could only see your airline elbow on the rear bags.  Before I get to the point of no return I want to verify the size of my airline that threads directly into the reducer, and if the reducer will indeed pull down through some opening, or if the reducer also needs to be unscrewed in place.

Thanks for all your great maintenance tips & videos!

[MHRookie]

I cannot tell for certain but it sure appears you will need to remove the reducer before bag removal.  I don’t see a cutout in the top mount the fitting will fit thru.  

[Ivan K]

Blow the dust off to see if there is a hole large enough to pull it through. Yours is totally different from my fitting arrangement...

[Keith H.]

Where might I find (rent) these “tall” 22 ton jacks. Can someone send a poc of one of these tall jacks?  How much height do you get out if these jacks?

[amphi_sc]

4 hours ago, Keith H. said:

Where might I find (rent) these “tall” 22 ton jacks. Can someone send a poc of one of these tall jacks?  How much height do you get out if these jacks?

For my front axle I used a pair of 12 ton juck stands from Harbor Freight and sat them on solid concrete blocks to get the height to support the front of the coach. (Aired the coach all the way up, stacked the concrete blocks, placed jack stands on the blocks, raised the jack to meet the house frame, aired down about an inch settling on the stands and used a 6 ton bottle jack to manipulate the axle as needed.)  So that was 48,000 lb capacity for the 15,000 lb front axle so I figured it was within limits.  For the rear I could sit the stands on the floor.

PS: It was not fun getting to those top bag nuts and 1 1/4 inch airline "flared nut" broken loose.  Never could get a regular 1 1/4 inch open end on the air line but shorter crescent wrench and cheater pipe could wiggle enough in the tight space.  Once the nuts were cracked free they would spin off fairly easy with just my fingers.  And after managing to get the 1 1/4 airline "bushing/male flared fitting" through the hole in the plate with all the appropriate encouraging words I could think of, I took an emery cylinder on my drill and cleaned up the plate hole just a tad to assist in reassembly.  I'll conclude with hoping the new bags have a longer life expectancy than me!

[c210pa18]

I was at a local Fleet Pride store a couple of days ago and they had, on the shelf, a 22-ton jack stand that is Max 20 inches high.  It looked very well made.  I asked the cost, and he looked it up and said it was $398 for one and $399 for a pair. 

I just finished replacing the bags on my coach a couple of days ago.  I had one 20-ton bottle jack in the shop, so I ordered 3 more from Amazon for $40 each. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000234IT4?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1.   I raised the coach with air then placed the jacks under the frame on wooden cribbing.  That gave me the option of raising it more as needed. I used another smaller bottle jack under the axle as needed to remove and replace the bags.  I bought the replacement brass fittings from Amazon that are 1 1/16 which fit through the hole nicely.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B752DBMB?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1.   This is a big job because the top nuts and air fittings take some time to remove but is very doable, just took me lots of time and a significant variety of tools to get the nuts and fittings removed.

Thank you Mike Z for the write-up up which gave me the how-to and courage to tackle the job.

Edited 1 hour ago by c210pa18