Need Kongsberg Master Switch Module - Was REMOVED from MH and bypassed. NEED A SWITCH - Working or NOT!!

[Bar SR Ranch]

Please read entire post before responding to help with any confusion. I will try and keep this short and to the point but still explain the situation.

Frank McElroy has been helping me, so he is involved. Thank you, Frank.

I have acquired a 2009 Dynasty Bishop with the Kongsberg CCM system and unfortunately the dash Eaton switch modules have been removed (I don't have them to be repaired). Someone did do a work around on some of the required circuits. Want to restore to OEM. 

Looking for the Kongbergs/Eaton Master Switch Module P/N 16623947 or 10121223 also P/N 16623951 would work this is the other master module but can be reprogramed. I have found 5-switch modules that are downstream from the dash master some will need to be reprogramed but we all know that Frank can do that now.

I live in Oregon about 130 miles from Coburg and was able to find 5 new switch modules that I needed by personally going to that area this is really the only way I was successful in locating the 5 I did find.

These are the locations I have personally gone NW RV Supply, REV Group in Coburg, Oregon Motor Coach, Premier RV Service, Biship (Guaranty), Beaver Coach in Bend and some others.

I have reached out to The REV Group in Indiana and every salvage yard in the county that I know of probably about 12 of them, I am on many lists if they get any of the modules, and every other parts resource that I have found across the county.

If you happen to see a Dynasty, Signature or HR, I think some of the Beaver coaches also had the Kongburg CCM in the 2008 to 2010 range that was wrecked someplace, please let me know yes, I am looking for a needle in a haystack.

Is there anyone that is close to the REV group in Indiana that would be willing to go there personally and check for me I would compensate you for your time, reason I ask is I have purchased 2 of the switch module from the REV group in Coburg but they are not in their inventory and completely deny they have any, but they really do just not in their inventory so who knows what they may have in Indiana but a face to face may help. I also had to politely ask them to bring out every switch module they had so I could look at them when I was at the Coburg location, they didn't really even want to do that when I was standing right there.

Attached is the master switch module I am needing.

If you have any of the switch module you want to sell, please reach out to me even if it isn't the one below it may be one that would work for me by reprograming. 

[DavidL]

I assume Frank can't repair your old switch?  Where did they go?

Edited April 11 by DavidL

[Bar SR Ranch]

David

As indicated in the post, I got the coach with them missing and don't have them and who I got the coach from didn't have them either.  

[Frank McElroy]

I thought it would be good to provide a bit more background.

One of the previous owners had a problem with the generator start master switch module.  That meant that this master and 5 other slave switch modules plugged into it didn't work. 

In an attempt to fix the problem either a previous owner or a service center cut open the original switch modules, threw away the multiplex circuit board inside along with the front rocker switch covers.  Then they cut out the rest of the plastic interior so they could fit in 3 standard Carling switches.  They did this to the master and all 5 slave switch modules.  Then they did an attempt to hard wire most but not all the switch function without fuse protection that the CCM provided.  Yes, a mess.  But the new owner has the skill set to put the wiring back to OEM as long as he can find a master switch module.

Maybe there is someone out there with a spare master module working or not and would be willing to sell it to the new owner.

[Bob125]

I have some Kongsberg switch modules new from Rev.  I sent Bar SR Ranch a message.  Thx, Bob…

[Bar SR Ranch]

Thanks Bob, I just sent you a PM.

Sorry for the slow response to your message this morning I have been planting trees all day and was away from the computer.

Edited April 13 by Bar SR Ranch

[Chuck Greco]

I may have a grouping of the switches you are requesting. I have a 2009 Dynasty 45 Stafford IV with Kongsverg CCM and Eaton switches. I am currently having the dash rewired to analog switches, but will retain those functions in the CCM which control the driver arm rest switches. These continue to work,  when the CCM harness  connections are in place. All of the dash switches, through the passenger arm rest and step panel, are not functioning. My tech has been unable to diagnose amy of these switches, and has not been able to determine if the remaing CCM is the issue.  If anyone else has had any experience with this condition,  feedback is welcomed.  If successful with the conversion, and I will know within the next thee weeks, I should (5) of the Eaton three switch cluster, an additional single Eaton switch, and an Eaton two switch cluster for your need. If you would prefer, please feel free to contact me.

Chuck Greco

607-972-4333

[Bar SR Ranch]

Chuck

Thanks for contacting me I am getting the ones I need from Bob125 but if something happens with this transaction I will contact you.

You should contact Frank McElroy on this site he can repair the OEM switch modules.

Do not throw the ones you take out away.

I Just sent you a PM also.

Thanks Steve

 

 

 

Edited April 15 by Bar SR Ranch

[Kenster]

On 4/11/2024 at 7:12 AM, Bar SR Ranch said:

Please read entire post before responding to help with any confusion. I will try and keep this short and to the point but still explain the situation.

Frank McElroy has been helping me, so he is involved. Thank you, Frank.

I have acquired a 2009 Dynasty Bishop with the Kongsberg CCM system and unfortunately the dash Eaton switch modules have been removed (I don't have them to be repaired). Someone did do a work around on some of the required circuits. Want to restore to OEM. 

Looking for the Kongbergs/Eaton Master Switch Module P/N 16623947 or 10121223 also P/N 16623951 would work this is the other master module but can be reprogramed. I have found 5-switch modules that are downstream from the dash master some will need to be reprogramed but we all know that Frank can do that now.

I live in Oregon about 130 miles from Coburg and was able to find 5 new switch modules that I needed by personally going to that area this is really the only way I was successful in locating the 5 I did find.

These are the locations I have personally gone NW RV Supply, REV Group in Coburg, Oregon Motor Coach, Premier RV Service, Biship (Guaranty), Beaver Coach in Bend and some others.

I have reached out to The REV Group in Indiana and every salvage yard in the county that I know of probably about 12 of them, I am on many lists if they get any of the modules, and every other parts resource that I have found across the county.

If you happen to see a Dynasty, Signature or HR, I think some of the Beaver coaches also had the Kongburg CCM in the 2008 to 2010 range that was wrecked someplace, please let me know yes, I am looking for a needle in a haystack.

Is there anyone that is close to the REV group in Indiana that would be willing to go there personally and check for me I would compensate you for your time, reason I ask is I have purchased 2 of the switch module from the REV group in Coburg but they are not in their inventory and completely deny they have any, but they really do just not in their inventory so who knows what they may have in Indiana but a face to face may help. I also had to politely ask them to bring out every switch module they had so I could look at them when I was at the Coburg location, they didn't really even want to do that when I was standing right there.

Attached is the master switch module I am needing.

If you have any of the switch module you want to sell, please reach out to me even if it isn't the one below it may be one that would work for me by reprograming. 

I believe the switch is nothing more than a switch / relay module all built in one. Frankly, a stupid idea. If you have a wiring diagram and a little low voltage aptitude, you can easily Buy three replacement switches with a three gang faceplate, and dry contact relays according to the rated amps required, basically recreating the module. If a replacement is not available, this is exactly what any competent low voltage guy would do. If you are unable to find a direct replacement, let me know and and I would be happy help you Source the parts and draw up a wiring diagram for it.

[Frank McElroy]

2 minutes ago, Kenster said:

I believe the switch is nothing more than a switch / relay module all built in one. Frankly, a stupid idea. If you have a wiring diagram and a little low voltage aptitude, you can easily Buy three replacement switches with a three gang faceplate, and dry contact relays according to the rated amps required, basically recreating the module. If a replacement is not available, this is exactly what any competent low voltage guy would do. If you are unable to find a direct replacement, let me know and and I would be happy help you Source the parts and draw up a wiring diagram for it.

These switches generate and send a digital code on a dedicated J1939 databus going to  2 Kongsberg CCM modules.  These CCM modules then power item based on switch digital code input.   That's how a chassis multiplex system works.

These are NOT just simply a series of switches and internal relays.

 

[Kenster]

You would be amazed by what my field technicians can do with different applications. Anyway, it sounds like you have found a source for the module which will certainly be the easiest approach. Please follow up when you get it resolved.

 

[Kenster]

After speaking with one of our technicians, he claims, when they are unable to replace a faulty or damaged reporting/signaling device on a J1939 databus network, they have used some type of a data bus digital to analog converter for the device. He also said it's generally hit or miss. Either way, let's hope you find the correct part and are able to reestablish the connection. Keep us posted. He was supposed

 

 

[Bar SR Ranch]

Thanks to Bob Mackie (Bob125) I was able to purchase one master and two slave modules from him, those 3 plus 5 other modules that I have are headed to Frank to be checked to confirm they are all working correctly.

Hopefully after I get all of the modules back from Frank and correct some wiring the coach will be back to OEM.

 

[Frank McElroy]

On 4/15/2024 at 11:19 AM, Chuck Greco said:

I may have a grouping of the switches you are requesting. I have a 2009 Dynasty 45 Stafford IV with Kongsverg CCM and Eaton switches. I am currently having the dash rewired to analog switches, but will retain those functions in the CCM which control the driver arm rest switches. These continue to work,  when the CCM harness  connections are in place. All of the dash switches, through the passenger arm rest and step panel, are not functioning. My tech has been unable to diagnose amy of these switches, and has not been able to determine if the remaing CCM is the issue.  If anyone else has had any experience with this condition,  feedback is welcomed.  If successful with the conversion, and I will know within the next thee weeks, I should (5) of the Eaton three switch cluster, an additional single Eaton switch, and an Eaton two switch cluster for your need. If you would prefer, please feel free to contact me.

Chuck Greco

607-972-4333

Another Kongsberg multiplex system repaired. 

A few days ago, Chuck sent me his 6 inoperative dash switch modules (1 master and 5 slave modules).  It turned out he had a master module that needed a replacement 28 pin MicroPIC and 3 slave modules needed to be reprogrammed. 

Bench tested and all switches now generate the correct digital code.  Repaired modules came through surgery and recovery just fine and are now good as new.  They ship out on Monday.

[Chargerman]

You are amazing Frank!

[96 EVO]

Frank, owners of the Kongsberg chassis coaches better pray you outlive their coach! 

[Chuck Greco]

Frank is a miracle worker.  Donna and I were truly praying that we were able to save our Dynasty system before jumping off the cliff and re-wiring the dash. Frank was the answer to our prayers. Thank you Frank, and thanks to all that preceded our coach fixes that enabled Frank's talents to make up for Kongsberg/Eaton's lack of support to the system. 

Chuck and Donna Greco

[Tom Cherry]

On 4/16/2024 at 11:18 AM, Kenster said:

You would be amazed by what my field technicians can do with different applications. Anyway, it sounds like you have found a source for the module which will certainly be the easiest approach. Please follow up when you get it resolved.

Just to clear the air and set the record straight.  Frank is the only person that has successfully repaired the K’B CCM switch modules.  Frank took this on as a “personal” challenge maybe a year of so ago.  He had helped some recover functions and started to understand the MPX system.  The saga or story of how he was able to “download and reprogram or fix” any of the components” is documented in the topics.  Do a search of KONGSBERG” and select TOPICS.  He has posted the “gist” of his journey.  He set up a “bench” line where he had a complete CCM system breadboarded together and had every function, as in the output signals to EVERY K’B controlled component, working.  With that rig, he can diagnose any issue.  He also was able to download and store every module’s program.  Memory says there are at least 7 or 8 discrete chip programs for the system.

Then, he developed a method to remove the “chip”, which is surface mounted on each device….and replace with a new, virgin unprogrammed chip….with precision as the 28 (memory) contacts….7 per side…placement has to be within maybe 0.003”.  Once replaced, then he has the ability to reprogram the chip with the OEM program….making it 100% functional.  In some cases, I think he has also repaired other items or restored a faulty “trace”.  

There are no other shops or individuals in the US that have accomplished this….much less have a smattering of his technology and expertise. It has been a “life saver” for our members.  There is a 30+ page topic here of how a member bought a “salvaged” MH and had the moxie to make it quasi roadworthy…as in drive it home.  The switches had been “tested” by another shop, only to discover that the original switches sent in, many of which were known good, were NOT returned and were replaced with defective ones.  THUS, that shop is one that we now have concerns about.

The above is the gist of how this saga ended and Frank is the only person to persevere and develop the methodology as well as fabricate the jig for replacement and also “crack the code”….as in learned how, with many hours of experiments and also totally drew up a schematic of the boards…to get a copy of the programs.

This is a feat beyond all electronics comprehension unless one was there, via emails, texts, photos as well as many phone calls…..which I was fortunate enough to be involved.

As Paul Harvey would say…..now you know the REST OF THE STORY….

[Frank McElroy]

On 4/21/2024 at 8:31 AM, Tom Cherry said:

Just to clear the air and set the record straight.  Frank is the only person that has successfully repaired the K’B CCM switch modules.  Frank took this on as a “personal” challenge maybe a year of so ago.  He had helped some recover functions and started to understand the MPX system.  The saga or story of how he was able to “download and reprogram or fix” any of the components” is documented in the topics.  Do a search of KONGSBERG” and select TOPICS.  He has posted the “gist” of his journey.  He set up a “bench” line where he had a complete CCM system breadboarded together and had every function, as in the output signals to EVERY K’B controlled component, working.  With that rig, he can diagnose any issue.  He also was able to download and store every module’s program.  Memory says there are at least 7 or 8 discrete chip programs for the system.

Then, he developed a method to remove the “chip”, which is surface mounted on each device….and replace with a new, virgin unprogrammed chip….with precision as the 28 (memory) contacts….7 per side…placement has to be within maybe 0.003”.  Once replaced, then he has the ability to reprogram the chip with the OEM program….making it 100% functional.  In some cases, I think he has also repaired other items or restored a faulty “trace”.  

There are no other shops or individuals in the US that have accomplished this….much less have a smattering of his technology and expertise. It has been a “life saver” for our members.  There is a 30+ page topic here of how a member bought a “salvaged” MH and had the moxie to make it quasi roadworthy…as in drive it home.  The switches had been “tested” by another shop, only to discover that the original switches sent in, many of which were known good, were NOT returned and were replaced with defective ones.  THUS, that shop is one that we now have concerns about.

The above is the gist of how this saga ended and Frank is the only person to persevere and develop the methodology as well as fabricate the jig for replacement and also “crack the code”….as in learned how, with many hours of experiments and also totally drew up a schematic of the boards…to get a copy of the programs.

This is a feat beyond all electronics comprehension unless one was there, via emails, texts, photos as well as many phone calls…..which I was fortunate enough to be involved.

As Paul Harvey would say…..now you know the REST OF THE STORY….

Tom - Thanks for the kind words.  Yep, this was a bit of a challenge - but I like electronic challenges. 

For folks interested in the saga of how I learned how to repair the Kongsberg Chassis multiples system (including a detailed technical PDF file), read the link below starting about in the middle of page 11 (if you start on page 1 your will read the whole story of all the twists and turns).  Oh BTW, my coach doesn't have a Kongsberg system - my interest was in helping other members and maybe in the future getting a bath and a half coach with such a system and being able to repair it.

 

[Frank McElroy]

On 4/17/2024 at 10:11 AM, Bar SR Ranch said:

Thanks to Bob Mackie (Bob125) I was able to purchase one master and two slave modules from him, those 3 plus 5 other modules that I have are headed to Frank to be checked to confirm they are all working correctly.

Hopefully after I get all of the modules back from Frank and correct some wiring the coach will be back to OEM.

 

Well I just finished another project.  Of the one master and 5 slave plus 2 spare slave modules, only one slave tested bad.  A circuit board from one of the spare slave modules was reprogrammed to replace the bad one.  Steve also wanted the window shade option programmed into a module that had a blank slot.  Also made up a few missing cables and sent spare connectors and crimp pins to repair other damaged connectors.  The set of working modules was sent to Steve today.

[Chuck Greco]

Frank did an outstanding/amazing job on my master/slave switches. My wife and l are very thankful after sweating the situation out, praying we did not have a boat anchor.  Thanks again Frank...

Chuck and Donna Greco

[Chargerman]

The brain surgeon saves yet another patient

[Tom Cherry]

52 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Well I just finished another project.  Of the one master and 5 slave plus 2 spare slave modules, only one slave tested bad.  A circuit board from one of the spare slave modules was reprogrammed to replace the bad one.  Steve also wanted the window shade option programmed into a module that had a blank slot.  Also made up a few missing cables and sent spare connectors and crimp pins to repair other damaged connectors.  The set of working modules was sent to Steve today.

YES,

Frank is obviously the SKILLED tech on the K'Berg system.  I have seen other pictures that he texted me of his "RIGS".  From my warped sense of humor viewpoint... I had the thought that if I looked hard enough, we could see the ghost of Steve Jobs and perhaps a flashback with Bill Gates....as they BOTH did their tinkering in a garage or their dorm room.  The ability to figure out complex electronics and resolve seemingly impossible things lives on...

We once had a member who's job it was to "FIGURE OUT" why a high priced (think hundreds of thousands of the Defense Department Funds) board "FAILED" and what the company had to do to prevent a reoccurrence.  These boards were from God only knows how many different products that one of the MAJOR (maybe largest) Defense Contractors in the US.  This individual was one of a team of Ex Military Techs that were hired locally by this company.  When the DoD would return a failed board....say, they were testing a new version of a Tomahawk missile...and there was more electronics on it that K'Berg ever dreamt.  The DoD wanted it analyzed.  The Designer had to write up a corrective action program to ensure that the next time they pushed the FIRE button....the missile launched.  The EE-PhD's that designed them KNEW the circuits.  However, they (er SOME...not all...but MOST) were somewhat less than well versed when it came to actually building their creations.  They specified all the component and the circuits.  THEN, the PCB Guru's had to design the board and then figure out HOW to build it.  SOME of these were HAND BUILT... Some were high demand...so there was a small automated or semi-automated assembly line.

BUT...when it FAILED....it went to the "SKUNK WORKS" in the basement.  These folks had to examine it with microscopes and figure out if there were cracks or open circuits in the traces....or whether a capacitor failed and started the chain reaction.  Our Ex Member was a whiz at this...but he said he and his buddies suffered from "BRAIN BURN OUT"...and the circuits were so complex... 

Every time I see one of Frank's "projects"... I think about my friend, who we often call or email and his job after his service..  It takes a special skill and Frank's spans the Theoretical or Design....down to the BOARD....something that is RARE.

We are lucky to have him. He also helps me learn so that I can assist others without his guidance....and for that I am eternally grateful.

FINAL comment.  I have a "control" issue with my well and residential pump and also an upgraded (now required) pressure switch and the "bypass and refresh" loop installed by my friend, a Professional Geologist that works on large cities wells and is one of the experts well known in the South East. Finally, I designed a simple relay controlled solenoid system that will resolve DW's "we ain't got any pressure".  She said...  Now THAT is brilliant.....wire it up and get it running.  I took that opportunity to tell her that the knowledge that I gained here....even though I had done all sorts of process control and was also an EE for 2 years....the PRACTICAL here.... was what helped me simplify the final version....and make it work.

So, much of the electrical and electronics advice that is given is thanks to Frank and also the input of others....and we are blessed to have him....along with others... Paul Whittle, for example, that are well versed in the Intellitec MPX control systems in all Dynasties (Circa 2006) and above....

GREAT JOB...as usual...

[96 EVO]

4 hours ago, Chuck Greco said:

Frank did an outstanding/amazing job on my master/slave switches. My wife and l are very thankful after sweating the situation out, praying we did not have a boat anchor.  Thanks again Frank...

Chuck and Donna Greco

That 'IS' the greatest nightmare isn't it!

Having a huge, expensive, boat anchor sitting in your driveway!!

[Bar SR Ranch]

Not only is Frank the expert on the Kongbergs CCM (and many other things) the way he communicated with me threw out this process was top notch customer service something we just don't normally see in today's world.

I still have a lot to sort out and check on the coach to make sure that everything is correct before I plug in the new to me and repaired switch modules.

Of course, I am supper busy now for the next couple months with other previous commitments and don't want to rush and want to only be working on this without any interruptions so it will probably be 60 plus days before I will know if everything else is good. 

I for sure will do an update and am hopeful that the mess a previous owner/service center created can be put back to factory.