Tom Cherry

I never said that the wiring was overkill. It was a 35 ft run. It SHOULD be big. What happened was Monaco did not properly protect the small Lippert....in that it should have been 80 amps. I have NO idea what the first 200 Amp blew. All I know is that when I put back in a similar fuse and tested....it worked. I NEVER had an issue with the NAPA ANL even though I had to elongate the terminals as it was about 1/4" shorter. That failed in 2017. I had the slide tested and adjusted and I kept an eye on the current. When I had the issue this spring and tightened every connection (14 or so), it worked. I DID put in the correct OEM fuse. All I know....it died. The motor will run for the big slide...but it needs to sit for at least a day for the next. There is NO internal overload protection. The downstream 80 Amp breaker is there STRICTLY for the motor. It is a 1/0 going to the motor so there is NO VOLTAGE DROP.

THIS IS LONG....so skim or just go DOWN TO THE WHAT TO DO NOW AND WHY section... This pertains to a LIPPERT Hydraulic Failure. It could HAPPEN if you have Hydraulic Slides or Hydraulic Jacks. Mine was a slide...but if you have JACKS...you could be at risk... My 2009 Camelot has always had an intermittent Hydraulic Slide failures. The 200A ANL fuse blew in 2015. The replacement (not an OEM fuse like Monaco used) failed in 2017. I had three competent techs (Dr. Frank McElroy included) check the slides. I also did major trouble shooting of the entire Hydraulic pump circuit. NEVER COULD find the problem. It was intermittent and driving it a few miles would "Fix" it. The issue was that the pump would run SLOW. The slide mechanism and current draw was checked by Tom Johnson's in Marion and PJ McCants (Chris Throgmartin's expert) NEVER found anything. Finally, two weeks ago...the slides failed and I was left with them OUT and in the driveway. I did a LOT of research. I found ONE article that started to make sense. I also vaguely remember noting a "Gee...that doesn't make sense" issue a few year ago when I was looking at my Monaco High Current Print. Bottom LINE>>>>MONACO GOOFED....WHY... I think I KNOW....but that would be a guess. HERE IS WHAT IS WRONG... Monaco wanted to have a wiring harness from the RRB (and Battery) to the FRB that would support 200 A. That was WAY overkill. BTW. If you look in your RRB...there are several Laminated (tan) ANL Fuses. I URGE everyone to order the OEM BUSSMANN ANL - Ignition Proof or will not catch on fire FUSES. These fuses are more robust and I have had cheaper ones fail. I have SPARES for each size. There is also a ROUND (300 A) fuse that connects the Inverter to the House Bank. THIS IS CHEAP INSURANCE.. Monaco felt the "NEED?" to have an OVERSIZED and INCORRECT...ON MY CAMELOT FRB Resettable Circuit Breaker. YES...the 200 A fuse protects the 2/0 cable to the front. NOT AN ISSUE... BUT, then you MUST have the proper Resettable Circuit Breaker for whatever you feed. Monaco thought (and that is a generous) term that they needed to use a 150 Amp CB. WHY....WELL, in case you wanted to run a Generator Slide and also your Hydraulic Slides and also your Aux Pump...then MAYBE you needed150 Amps. BULL CRAP. It was an ERROR and the Owner's manual is CRAP. The drawing shows a 150. BUT, if you did into the prints...you will find...after a LOT of searching that they REALLY did specify an 80 Amp breaker. BUT....those prints and the installers NEVER talked to each other. My SIMPLE (two front slides...NO GENNY SLIDE) system uses a motor that has around 65 -70 FULL LOAD AMPS. Lippert recommends 80 Amps. Therefore, when there was a high resistance issue (as in a loose connection or a burned contact), the motor was pulling 88% MORE current. NOW...to make things worse... MAYBE I had a BAD 150 Amp CB. I only had THAT CB trip ONCE in all my issues. I DID have the 200A fuse blow TWICE....so maybe the original CB was defective or the fuse blew FIRST.... DOES NOT MATTER....The CB is supposed to protect the Hydraulic motor....and that should be rated at 80. SO....regardless of WHAT connection or high resistance or potential cable failure...the MOTOR IS PROTECTED. Mine was not. Over the years, then when there was an electrical issue...it FRIED the motor. NOW... from a "cycles" viewpoint....my hydraulic system, is almost 20 years old. We spend about 60 nights per year out (Average....according to the EXPERTS is that a NORMAL Class A owner only does 30 or so). We also average about 2.5 nights per stay. Bottom line, between packing and unpacking and such, my MH is 11 years old...but the Slides are probably approaching 20 years....based on the AVERAGE USAGE. WHAT TO DO AND WHY Get the Lippert Hydraulic Pump number off the unit. There will only be (mine) THREE part number. One is a LIPPERT model number. Mine was 645263. The reservoir also had a bar coded number 532299. If you wipe the motor, there will also be a PN. 414850. YOURS MAY VARY. Monaco TYPCIALLY bought all the cylinders, the hoses and the pump units as a KIT from Lippert. The hoses were precut to the correct lengths. Call LIPPERT. DO NOT GO TO TECH SUPPORT. The numbers that you have are NOT in THEIR DATA BASE. STUPID...but factual. Go DIRECTLY TO PARTS. Parts is the ONLY ONE that can give you the "Original" Lippert numbers. For example. My unit was 645363. They looked it up. BINGO....the EXACT Replacement is a 156844. WHY do you need that. Because Tech Support can NOT find that unit. BUT, they can find the 156844. The replacement Motor is a 179327. ONCE you have the REAL Lippert Part number for the Pump unit and the Specific Motor number...then tell the PARTS person to connect you to Tech Support. Tell them you are trying to find the CORRECT Up Stream or Recommended CB protection for that motor. Since I have NO KNOWLEDGE of what is used for Jacks...I can't HELP ANYONE.. BUT, once you have the EXACT Replacement motor and/or the Pump unit....then Tech Support can tell you WHAT SIZE TO USE. I would ALSO record this because it is a PITA to ever find. THEN....look and see WHAT Monaco installed. You do NOT need to be an Electrical Genius. There is one BIG RED wire going to a Round Tombetta Solenoid (PN 684-1211-212 and it is only a $35 part from Amazon). Trace that Red cable BACK to wherever there is a CIRCUIT BREAKER.... Here is a picture of the Trombetta. It is what turns ON the motor. OK...if you have the CORRECT Breaker...you are GOOD to Go. if NOT....then, here is what MINE has and these are available on Amazon... T Tocas 80 Amp Circuit Breaker Trolling with Manual Reset, 12V- 72V DC, Waterproof (80A) OK.. That should get you going..... WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND ALSO CHECK....at least it happened to me.... FIRST... Look at the big lugs on the Solenoid and the motor. I would take the cables off and clean the terminals and the cables and reinstall. NOW...the MOTOR. THIS IS TWO STEPS... Take OFF the cables. There is a LOCK NUT that holds the MOTOR Terminals or Studs in place. I THINK this was my issue. Carefully TIGHTEN (don't put a 18" breaker bar on it) the two LOCK NUTS. Mine were loose. The CABLES were tight on the STUD...but the stud was loose. When you tighten the first nut...that then locks in or seats the internal studs so you have a GOOD CONNECTION. I FINALLY found this....but I had fried or damaged my motor. After the LOCK nuts are tight, then keep cleaning and install the two terminals. Will take you 10 minutes TOPS....assuming you have the right size wrench or deep well sockets. I spent about 6 hours TOTAL on the phone with Lippert. The first Tech Support person was rude and told me I was a DUMB ASS. That my REVERSING SOLENOID was bad. This is a ONE DIRECTION PUMP MOTOR. It does NOT (or at least mine did not) have the more expensive or newer Reversing Solenoid. He argued with me and told me to go to a dealer before I broke it. MINE was broken. After I figured out that my CB was bad, I decided to call Lippert and get the correct Value and the Tech Support guy (Brandon) told me that he would transfer me to PARTS as he did NOT have the motor number or the pump assembly in HIS data base. He KNEW it was there...but he could NOT CROSS REFERENCE IT. NOW THAT IS STUPID. I was going to order a motor and then, on a whim....asked Tammy in Parts....Can you supply a NEW unit. The motor and solenoid would have been $1000 or so. Lippert's price on the WHOLE NEW unit was $1635. For us OLD TIMERS....this particular Lippert PUMP was a PITIFUL DESIGN. The reservoir hangs out like taping a shoe box onto the side of your Motor Home. Many of us actually saw that and fabricated a bracket to hold the reservoir up or support it and mine has lasted a LONG time with over 65K miles. I COULD probably just install a new motor...but Lippert realized that I had an original one, that they had replaced countless times and made me an offer on a whole NEW UNIT that I could not turn down. Regardless, why put on a motor on a unit that has a known design failure. Spending $600 more for a WHOLE NEW unit (Valves, motor, pump, seals, etc....was a NO BRAINER. FINALLY... As COMPLICATED as the instructions are, you can EASILY use a DRILL and a Hex Bit and spin the motor. Two Phillips screws and a tap of a hammer (the cap is sealed on) and there is a HEX nut. Your manual has pictures. You need to have an Allen wrench (9/32?). You turn a valve CLOCKWISE and then spin the drill. I had two guys and my wife PUSH on the slide to get it moving. It took less than a minute of drill time and the slide was retracted. You then turn the valve COUNTER CLOCKWISE to LOCK IT. Then you go to the other valve and repeat.... I put some pictures of my unit in also...

wow, what a great post. I assume (my memory) that you put back in a Penguin II and not the other Dometic (name escapes me) that would require a bit more "mod" but had about 25% more CFM. You just proved what the LD instructor said. I started torquing mine. If I had, it would have been a disaster. Sometimes we Engineers write silly specs just to impress folks...BUT, having a GOAL of 40 - 50 inch pounds and getting them SNUG leaves a lot to interpretation. Thanks again for the update.

Sounds like you have it under control. The Moderators have awarded you a Smiley Face for the above explanation. You are also receiving Demerit for hijacking a thread. They cancel out. 🙂😞 Thanks...

No offense to those that use tracers. I have had to keep an old ANALOG meter around. Or use a trouble light. My advice. Google and see what the standard is for your tow receptacle or the "Wiring Connector" on the rear. Monaco used 6 and 7. You are in a TRANSITION YEAR. Monaco made a running change and started out the year with maybe a 6 or a 7. The change as to ADD a "Rear Brake Control" wire to the rear receptacle. SO, if you have a 6, odds are you do NOT have a line from a "Brake Controller". This would be for a trailer or if you have something like a US Gear Tow Brake system. NOW....that may not be you case, but you need to know that. When customers complained about having to run ANOTHER wire and swapping out the 6 for a 7 Pin....Monaco responded. They ALSO "redid" the up front signals so that you had a REAL Service Brake Signal. That was needed to SIGNAL or activate whatever control you had. Problem....THEY BOTCHED IT. US Gear actually got with them and pulled a MH and showed them WHERE the contact or wires up front were supposed to be hooked up. So, there was THEN 3 different UP FRONT wiring circuits or versions. Supposedly they fixed this in 2006. BUT....back to your situation...I THINK. Use your VOM and find the Ground (using the resistance or continuity scale). Then look at the schematic for your rear connector, 6 or 7. Next...use a test light or you can use a digital VOM for the Parking Lights. NOW...maybe all DIGITAL VOM's ain't the same. I have two HIGH $$ Digital VOM. They will not, on the 12 VDC setting pick up a FLASHING or a TURN SIGNAL. SO... I use my OLD analog. You can use a Test Light. You KNOW the Ground Pin....so you turn on the RT Signal and keep probing. Same for the LT Signal. NOW, you have identified the Ground, Park, LT & RT. NOW....again....inconsistency in MONACO....so this is SUPPOSED to be the work it works. When the ignition is ON (or in RUN), there is a constant 12 VDC signal. That is for RECHARGING the Toad's battery. It may be HOT without the ignition....so you have to experiment. Now you have Ground, Park, RT Signal, LT Signal and Charging. If you have 6...then the other one (check to see that there are actually 6 wires in the harness....they sometimes only put in 5. The Backup Lights was supposedly for that 6th wire. Graduate to a 7 Pin connector. The 7th Wire is the SIGNAL or the "TURN ON THE BRAKES" wire from your front controller. If you do NOT have a controller, then that wire is not terminated up front. I finally found that wire (I needed it). I ran a small spool of bell wire from up front (hooked up to that non-terminated end). Then I took the other end back and did a continuity check. BINGO....that is my wire. This may not be your issue, but this is that I understood you were having difficulty with and how I checked mine before I EVER MADE A CONNECTION ON MY UMBILICAL. Not that I do NOT trust Monaco....God Forbid... LOL

thanks for the clarification. Looks like, as usual, not every Monaco is created equal. All the ones that I was familiar with or had folks comment were Atwood. I do NOT (now....MY MEMORY) think that there were any other etched names or trademark BUT, that might not be correct. I know that Atwood had only one vendor....or that is what the ex Plant Manager told me and she worked for them for over 20 years and when they sold or folded that all the critical "expertise" sort of vanished. She had actually gone to work for Duncan. Duncan bought Atwood (now were there other products....I don't know). But, they knew that she was one of the ones that knew the vendors and the processes and they also got the prints and specifications. They put her in charge of the "Replacement" business. That included getting a NEW vendor for the glass and qualifying them. That vendor is a leading supplier for other manufacturers and Duncan sends them the prints for each pane and they custom cut and assemble (seal) the two panes. They send it to the Elkhart location (or they will ship to Duncan's other location or even drop ship to a glass shop or the customer) The Elkhart operation then removes the old frame and installs the new panes inside the original frame....which is a bit of a "trick" as the frames have flex and the glass maybe me off a few thousandths. They had to pull mine down twice to get it fitted. Now, I had THREE panes. Two fixed and one sliding. So that was the most complex case. To get the new panes in the old frame and then get the sliding one to work was a matter of finness, and experience. BUT, the proof was that the entire frame then screwed back together (was also sealed) and the sliding pane worked. It fit fine going back in as Chris' friend, P J had already knocked off the poorly cut corner of the MH. He told me going in not to be surprised with the frame was sort of "beat up" on the portion you could not see as Monaco really did a poor job of the window cutout and the fix was not to grind or fit but to use brute strength and rubber mallets and that he had pulled many frames that had dents and marks and some really bad spots. BUT, that he would work on the opening and that Duncan would also work on the frame to straighten it out. Duncan MAY (pure memory) also supply a replacement frame or parts.....that is a little fuzzy. If you are getting tempered glass and it is tinted to match, the you should be good to go. Thanks for the info....makes us all a bit smarter....and we can help out others.....

Curious. You have glass that says APEX? I was told by the former PM at ATWOOD (now part of Duncan - see the original or the first posts) that Atwood (when they were Monaco Supplier) was the sole supplier for several model years. Just like A&M was for the windshield wipers. Did not know there was another brand called APEX. Atwood sold the "Glass" business to Duncan. Have NO idea what Atwood makes now, but it is NOT OEM windows and frames.....of that I am sure. Duncan had to chase down a new Glass vendor and set them up as Atwood's was "turned off". Clarify if you can so we all learn and there is no confusion.... Thanks.

OK....to get it back on track.... The Atwood tempered glass windows were not "Energy Efficient" windows that were factory made with an inert gas as the inner layer. They were just two panes of tinted and tempered glass with "air" between them and then had a "factory" applied silicone or RTV sealant. They were SUPPOSED to be sealed. But they were not anything special. Atwood merely purchased the completed panes from their glass supplier, fabricated the frames or purchased them and then assembled them. The "home style" energy efficient windows have (generically) two panes and an inert gas and are sealed and are contained or in a metal frame. This ain't them. The RV-Glass and others are supplying a special piece of windshield glass (two panes with a plastic laminate inside). If you have ever been through an automotive "float glass" factory (PPG had one), then that is it. They appear NOW to have some tinting options not available in 2018 so that they can better match the RV's OEM glass. They use you old glass (or maybe the frame) as a template and cut and grind and fit the new one and reassemble (if you go to them) the window. They do NOT disassemble and clean and reuse your glass (or they did not, again, in 2018) The glass shops or the DIY technique is used when the original tempered tinted glass panes (supplied to Atwood) start to fail and you get moisture or condensation inside them. That entails disassembly and removing the sealer/adhesive and cleaning the glass and then spacing them and putting a new bead or seal around the edges. All THREE work. There is no magic bullet. BUT, there is not, with the older or maybe our style of windows, (the newer RV's are different) a place where you can just order a piece of stock glass. YES, with a home window, then most shops will order a "Factory Replacement". That has its own frame and then you reinstall it in your frame (sash?). Atwood comes the closest to doing that as they can get the exact panels cut and tempered and sealed (fabricated) from a supplier. Yes, folks will debate Tempered vs Windshield. In my venacular....and having had TWO tempered failures....when you "impact" (rock or bb or gravel) a piece of tempered glass. It SHATTERS. It keeps it's structural integrity....think a jig saw puzzle with over 10,000 pieces the size....think 1/64" diameter. In my Camelot's case....there was a hole in the lower corner (you could see the "mark" of the entry. BUT, the whole window was intact and crazed. That did not last long. You have to DO NOTHING except start using several layers of clear (or duct) tape to keep it from totally shattering. MANY folks do that. They just knock it out and put in a piece of plexiglass or plywood and tape it in place. I chose NOT to do that. I did not want the risk of an interior shatter and putting 10,000 pieces of glass shards. I was able to laminate or tape and then keep doing that and added aluminum staves and drive at highway speeds from Seattle to Elkhart and NOT the most direct route and stay on schedule. If you have the RV Glass Solutions windshield glass, it acts like just that. A small hole might appear. You MIGHT get a crack. It depends. Personal opinion and appearance and availability are what drives the solution.....there are three.....That recaps it. YES....we need to stay on track. This has wandered, but folks need to read and understand what was stated by knowledgeable folks many post ago. It would help if folks also reviewed the past posts and such before they jump in or comment. Much of the past several are rehashes or misunderstanding from not skimming the past posts....THANKS.... Let focus on that....

now WHERE is that 500 Thousandths Feeler Gage that I KNOW I had??? Thanks for the insight. You guys are gonna convince me to do the two AC upgrade myself. However the attorney's fees for my divorce would far exceed the savings in labor and I would really miss the DW....LOL

and a wise and learned Red Neck and Shade Tree, you be..... that will work. I just thought $10 was a cheap price to keep from getting saturated with diesel, but your fix sounds good to me. I would NEVER admit to not having the proper tools and NOT using the approved techniques for repairing something....

words right out of the Senior Tech or the "Instructor" at the LD Seminar on HVAC Maintenance, Tips and Tricks in July, 2010....

Harbor Freight and Amazon have what they call "Hose Clamping Pliers". They are simple plastic pliers with a slip ring or rectangle on the handles. IF the line is rubber, you put on the right size and pinch or squeeze off the flow and slide the locking ring or "rectangle" in place. If you have ever watched a tech (used to be mechanics) change a fuel filter, they use them all the time. I carry a set of 3 sizes. if you think that you had an issue NOW.....hope you never have to change a Genny Fuel Filter. There are a MUST there. Cheap and easy to store. I HOPE that I never have to use them but I have them as well as a a spare Genny filter (and a spin on AH). I also have 2 different sizes of strap wrenches. Learned from Pratt and the Colonel. The only spare part or tool that you will ever need is the one that you did not think you would need. NOW if the line was not rubber, then just ignore my comments....but the pliers are needed if you ever have to change a plugged genny filter at a dry camp site in the middle of nowhere and it is hot as blazes and you need AC.... I did NOT have to do that, but a very astute ex member did. He was a great gearhead, but did not think about the pliers. He said he got soaked but got it done and bought the three plier kit the next day....

I'll take a shot. Other will also. I pulled the CURT Print. i am a bit confused....so bare with me... this is YOUR quote from a past post.... Thanks for the responses and I'm VERY glad I asked. If you look at the picture, one side has a yellow, white, green going in and yellow, red, green coming out. What type of connection is this? What would I ask for or search for to get the correct replacement? Here is what, I think, you have...and If I LOOK at your picture, I think I see them.... You have a RED and a Green and a YELLOW on the Coach Side. That PROBABLY means that you had a totally DIFFERENT style of converter. That WAS discussed and pointed out....but you have the exact OPPOSITE now. SO, you are going to have to try it THIS way. Remember there are POWERED and NON POWERED. The CURT plainly states....NO EXTERNAL POWER NEEDED....or it is NON Powered. Based on the color codes, I am guessing that the RED is the power....FOR your OLD POWERED CONVERTER.... MIGHT be hot all the time or might only come on when the switch is on. WHO KNOWS....this is Monaco. BUT, you do NOT need the RED wire. Your CURT unit is NON POWERED.. SO...cap OFF the RED....FROM THE COACH. IT is NOT needed.... BTW.....in the NOTHING WORKS....that would be RIGHT. The Converter is wired backwards. SO.....that ain't the SOLUTION. From the TOP. HOOK IT UP LIKE THE DIAGRAM SAYS.... The COACH SIDE is the INPUT. The TOAD is the OUTPUT... On the INPUT Side.... Attach the WIRES from the COACH HERE... Green IS RIGHT....so Green goes to GREEN. Yellow to Yellow. You MUST GROUND the WHITE WIRE. Find a SUITABLE GROUND (or a good screw that you unscrew and GROUND IT. CAP OFF (do NOT use) the RED WIRE. This unit does NOT require POWER. You old one did.... BTW....I am STILL a little CONFUSED....you said there was a WHITE wire. WHERE is it? I see the RED, YELLOW and GREEN from the MH....but you don;t show the wires on the TOAD side....so, I'm gonna go out on a limb here. You have THREE wires on the toad side. Green, Yellow and WHITE. BUT, don't let color be your guide. The WHITE wire is PROBABLY the STOP or BRAKE LIGHT. I THOUGHT you (or maybe someone else) said you had a BL on you MH plug. THAT is where the RED would go.... You MUST trace the wires to be sure.... On the TOAD side....do it this way... Green to GREEN Yellow to Yellow. TRACE the remaining WIRE. Verify (With NO connector in the MH socket)....run a GROUND TEST. USE the resistance setting. It should be ISOLATED. If it goes to GROUND....then GOD HELP US....the three wires GOING to the TOAD have to be LT, RT and STOP SO IF there is NO ground or WHITE wire on the MH side....then we are good to go.... You hook the RED output (Brake) to wire left over....you have identified GREEN and YELLOW....the OTHER wire is BRAKE...so regardless of the color, the RED wire goes there. NOTE.....there is a separate GROUND wire that connects the MH and the TOAD....That wire in inside the Unbilical cord.... So, you have FIVE wires that control the HHR's lights. GROUND... The GROUND does NOT come through the box.... LT RT STOP This is the THIRD wire that you unhooked on the TOAD side...and RED "SHOULD" go to it.... PARK. - It does NOT go through the box.....so it is like the GROUND....we ain't dealing with it. I know this sounds or may sound confusing. BUT, you are working with an APPLE (your OLD Unit) and an ORANGE (you NEW unit). If the above does NOT work....then go back to square ONE>>>> Find a TECH and get it fixed OR GET A POWERED UNIT and hook it up. MY GUESS is that there is a GROUND or there is a METAL tab or mounting hole on the OLD box. THAT is the ground that makes it work. They did NOT run a GROUND wire and you get it through the mounting screw. If your does NOT work that way, then I am at a loss. Remember, you have to use the INPUT WHITE and get it to GROUND for the Box to WORK. I don't know about clicking or such....the above is the way it is supposed to work and you have not got it installed, quite yet...quite right....and I THINK the above will fix it.... Good Luck. Give us FEED back.....

Walter. You are making progress. only two comments for you... Make sure you use the highest quality silver foil HVAC tape and tape the feces out of every place and seal everything that you can get to. I KNOW you know this....but that is key to getting an efficient and not leaky air flow. As to the Gaskets. My "bet" and you will find this out. IF there is only adhesive or a peel off strip on ONCE side of the gasket....then what has happened is this. ALL "plastic" contains a chemical called a "Plasticizer". I am NOT a chemist....but think about it this way. That is like the "solvent" in paint. The solvent is supposed to not leach or "vent off", but it happens. IF, over the years, the plasticizer or the solvent continues to "vent off", then it will act like glue and the foam starts to deteriorate and it is LIKE having an adhesive. That is what Herb found out and sanded or abraded off. I now doubt that WD-40 would loosen it. Acetone MIGHT, but you have to be careful.....mechanically scrapping or sanding is probably the best. Just don't go crazy. IF you are comfortable using Acetone and it loosens it...then go cautiously. Acetone will attack the Gel Coat on the roof. SO, pouring it on or taking steel wool and abrading the roof with Acetone is a formula for disaster. Again you probably know that....I just wanted to comment that there is not any type of "slow release" adhesive. I had a 1977 Toyota Celica and the black dash left a film (think the coating if a bunch of heavy smokers were trapped inside for a long time). It was "greasy and smeared" and was always on the inside of the windshield. I cleaned the inside of the windshield religiously from 1977 until I sold it in 1992. That was about every 3 months or 45 times....maybe more. That was the BLACK dash continuing to "gas off" or vent the Plasticizer(s).... I used to do be in charge of a plastic molding department, so that is the best explanation I can offer. We have graduate and advanced degreed chemists....they will have a FIELD day with my dumb @$$ description....LOL...

Thanks for the quote and the clarification. I probably mistated or used the wrong terminology. For YEARS, there was the "thought" that Atwood used an inert gas and that was the secret and you got a better seal (I guess vacuum was the wrong word). However, the lady told me that their glass supplier just "ran a bead around the two panes" and did nothing special to the interior or did not use any gas or such...just plain air... I have done or set up or been involved in a lot of testing and such. I had it in mind that a vacuum was applied and an inert gas was injected. What you describe is the high tech way with instruementation. I can remember when we had to inject a sealant or impregnate something or have a good seal that we pulled a low vacuum and then injected a solution or whatever and then sealed it up. Thanks for the detailed info. That misconception or the need for a "special gas injecting" procedure to match the OEM specs was incorrect....so that was my intent to burst that myth bubble.... Tom... Don't argue with your logic. When I had the shattered window and I first called RV Glass Solutions in Coburg. I was south of Seattle and could have driven down there. They were booked solid. I asked about the tint and color. The rep said....NOPE...it will be different from your OEM Atwood. I chose to order the OEM Atwood so that it would match. Then, the day that I left, they called....come on down...we can work you in. That would not work as my son was flying in to Spokane and we had a tight schedule. I could have cancelled the Atwood order...but left it alone and have no regrets. NOW, if they have tinted laminate that will blend and match, then that is a different scenario. I wonder if they have a "stock Atwood" tint. The PM of Atwood did not say if there was a code...other than, i THINK....tinted. I don't think that they had custom tints for anyone or Monaco....

Richard....To clarify.... There are TWO methods of fixing the window. One if to do the teardown, use your old glass, clean it and then reseal the panes and reassemble. Most glass shops can do that. I talked to Atwood about that. Read my comments above as there have been many opinions posted and this was the facts from Atwood on how our original windows were made and also dispells the "inert and vacuum tested" glass... Is THAT what was quoted to you? The SECOND option that the RV Glass (memory) gave me in Oregon was to REPLACE the panes with the same thickness of Laminated Windshield glass. That will never FOG....not will it shatter (it might crack) like the original tempered glass. Based on what the Oregon folks told me....you do LOSE a little R (or insulation value) when you replace the two pieces of tempered glass with a sealed air gap, with a single thickness of laminated Windshield glass. it was in the 10 - 25% range and the "estimates" vary by vendor. BUT, it will not be the same OEM glass that you have now and it will look different....but looks sometimes get Trumped by functionality... Thanks for responding which way they were going to do it...

There is another thread on something similar to this. FWIW....here are some facts. i spent a LOT of time talking to the ex Plant Manager of Atwood Glass and she told me what went on in the Glass Company as well as the Atwood operation. the glass is tempered and tinted. If you replace it, then you have to find a piece of glass and have it specially cut and ground and then tempered (don't know about the tinting), otherwise a REPLACEMENT piece MAY look different. RV Glass and all the other guys have a special thickness of Laminated Windshield Glass. They cut and grind and fit and reassemble. You MAY see a difference in the appearance... that is a personal call. If you go that way , the Laminated Windshield glass (two ply with laminate inside), will NOT have any future fogging issues. If you remove the glass, then any good glass shop can pull apart the glass. The Atwood Glass is just that. Tempered and tinted. They fixture it up, put in a spacer or somehow (maybe vacuum clamps?) keep it separated. This is NOT like the LOW E glass in your house where a vacuum is pulled and an inert gas (argon, nitrogen, etc) MAY have been used. They just run a bead of a special silicone around it. Don't know if they have a vacuum tank or a water tester that checks the seal or the integrity of the seal. THEN....it is shipped to folks like Atwood (who also do replacements) and they reinstall that pane in the original frame. YES....if you pull it apart....then remove any water or mineral deposits and then clean (polish) and such, then you have the same thing (hopefully cleaned and not streaked or spotted) and then you just put in some spacers or do opposite sides with spacers in the other two. Once set up,, then you run a bead of a good RTV Silicone sealer. Then you do the other. The trick is to get them blended. Obviously a good glass shop know how to do that. I would go that way if one of mine fogs some. you need to do it EARLY as the longer it stays fogged, the more apt to have hard water stains....yes... I KNOW it is condensation and not tap water...but it does FOG and Condense and streak...er. The glass shop or you also need to measure the original thickness of the assembled (bonded and sealed pane) and duplicate that. if NOT and it is out of spec, there is a HIGH DEGREE (100%) probability that when reassembled or being reinstalled, the compression or the stress from an out of spec thickness will shatter at least ONE of the panes. Ask my how many times a friend who ran a glass shop tried to put in a SINGLE pane of tempered glass in my boat. Put it back together and then follow the instructions (you need a double stick special tape) and reinstall a window. RV shops do that all day long for refrigerator installs... Hope this helps....there has been some myths about such...so I spent a LOT of time getting info on the process (as an old Manufacturing Engineer tends to do), so that I could make the above comments....

I figure that folks chasing cables and such have also the skill set to rig up a cheap and effective tester. If you cut off the end of a piece of Coax and strip back the jacket, you can solder a 9 Volt adapter to the end. Polarity does not matter. Amazon has them cheap. OR you can use alligator clips. Then you put a 9 VDC signal on that cable and start using your VOM to find it. If you use the other end of the cable you cut...then the OTHER terminated end can be stripped back and you have a clean connection to the center wire and the shield or braided shield connector. Remember that Winegard uses the Coax to send up power to the Antenna....so voltage over coax ain't gonna harm anything or cause any harm. all you need is two female to female barrel connectors....and have boxes of them I just do not do enough tracking and I have all sort of devices for AC work. But the cheap 9 VDC and alligator clips work. if you have a door bell and a door bell transformer or chime or buzzer will work. But...a low cost and effective tester is not a bad thing to have....

I may have misinterpreted Herb's comment.....whatever.... he did have SOME residue that he had to abrade and remove. For SOME reason, I thought there was an adhesive....but maybe you adhere the gasket to the bottom of the "pan" or whatever and then it just sits flush and after all the years, some of the high density foam broke down and left a residue. Whatever, it sounds like you are good to go and well prepared..... Unless you see something that looks "strange", I think MOST folks just disconnect wiring and terminals and stuff and then loosen and remove the hold down or mounting bolts and then just "Pull it UP and OFF". Herb will probably give you more info if you PM him. All I can say.....with my YEARS of HVAC experience.... is that you DO need a GOOD Inch Pound Torque Wrench to tighten down the gasket. Having said that, Dometic MAY have some bushings in place now. But generally, the instructions specify a torque value which few people ever measure. NOW....after you do that PROPERLY, the Senior Tech/Instructor at Lazy Days said..... LEAVE IT ALONE. He does not follow the "advice" to annually retighten and retorque. He says that they get more AC's that are almost flat on the roof.....and the gasket is toast and they leak. His advice....do it RIGHT the first time.... MAYBE, after a year or so....then go in and "snug" it down. I know others have retorqued their without any issues. I started to crank down on mine and realized that I was gonna really compress the gasket. It has never leaked and that was after sitting through the LD seminar. So, I have not been "diligent" in that. Probably SHOULD have checked it....but so far....no issues.... Thanks for the feedback and the explanation.

Walter....since Monaco never made one MH like the other. MOST (and that is not an exact statement of fact....but a generality) of the folks with 2 or 3 HVAC's have a SINGLE 5 button T'Stat and typically one or maybe two remote sensors (Like the Beaver Patriot for the front unit). SO....If I understand your original (which was revised) post.... you must have MULTIPLE T'Stat's and the FRONT(?) unit is a single HVAC Penquin with HP and the 5 button HVAC. Therefore, you are NOT muliplexing or have a data loop throughout the entire unit. Yep....you are cool....or at least I believe so. NO ONE has reported any type of major "roof top" gyrations like Herb did....and he explained why. I would assume that all you need it the NEW 12 Button T'stat and a new Penguin II (same rating with HP). Once you have that....you should be good to go and any reputable tech or any experienced or meticulous individual(s) with reasonable skills should be able to swap it out and it WILL be Plug and Play. Herb's comment about using a belt sander to abrade the FG was ingenious. I like a little Acetone (which I understand HOW to use and not abuse). Folks have used WD-40 to soften the adhesive residue and you have to wash off the WD-40 thoroughly and then do a quick alcohol wipe prep. Making sure that everything inside the unit is taped and sealed is a must. ONE comment.....some folks got "factory" goofs from Monaco. There was a Dometic Assembly issue. Some workers did not install the foam gaskets and diverters properly in the covers or on the unit and there was an air bypass. I would look at the illustrations in the manual and VERIFY that the various gaskets and such were "as pictured". This was RARE....but it happened to several folks. After they did a quick mod and restored the foam to the original design, their units were way more efficient. I still throw out the two caveats (other than the qualifications above). If the NEW Penguin II does NOT come with the Inline Connectors.....be a big spender and purchase some. I personally carry them (and I had a very frustrating experience earlier this summer) and replace them. I would also advise cleaning the male phone cable ends with Alcohol and a Q-tip. If you lose you OTHER two units (which I am going to PRESUME...unless you have THREE TStat), then odds are....it will be the inline connectors or the connections therein. SO, having a $5 pack as a backup is a no brainer. Second....if you want a pure and clean NEW lower Grill, THAT may not be included. You will have to determine that from the Instruction manual. All I know about that is Dometic listed it as a "Required" Accessory on one of their pages. Better to know that ahead of time than once it it ready and you don't like the looks of the old one. Good Luck....

Walter, Two things....and a cleanup might happen when one of us gets more time to understand....I thought I DID and there are still questions that pop up or maybe "challenges". I THOUGHT that I had posted this before. As to the DUCT issue. GO to THIS thread.... and look at HerbStark's post about mid way down. NOT to sound like an expert, but from what I read and from what I found on the Dometic Site and what Chris Throgmartin has posted....the Penguin to Penguin 11 SWAP is just that....a Plug and Play. When you go to the Blizzard NXT, that is what Herb outlined. The BEST advice.....get your OLD Penguin Part Number (off the Build Sheet). Then call Dometic. Be prepared for a phone wait...but you will eventually get routed to Retail or Consumer Tech Support. They were informative and helpful. IF you have you OLD PN then they can instantly LOOK UP what you have and then tell you what unit they recommend (assuming you are staying with the same style (AC only or AC with HP). They will also go through the "color codes". There WAS (and this is memory) a couple of "accessories". ONE was a Duct Adapter....but i don't recall if that was for a Conversion from a Penguin to a Blizzard or if it was something about whether you needed an adapter for some design change. The OTHER thing, IIRC, the NEW unit (Ducted) MIGHT not come with a NEW lower filter bezel. SO, if you want a new one (not yellowed or whatever), then you MIGHT need to order that. Again...the Dometic Folks should help you out. OR call Chris and see if he can help you or supply what you need.....

Hey, Old man.....quit eating so much and lose some weight and you won't be a slave to your AC units. LOL Thanks for the update. You and I have the same plan. Let ONE AC (or the TStat for that matter) go TU and we will have TWO new Penguin II and one New FANCY TStat. The post about the PITA conversion from a Penguin II to a Blizzard NXT have convinced me that ain't in MY future....but the write up and explanation was great. He gets a GOLD STAR (Formal ceremony to follow). Stay cool.... Herb....consider yourself a GOLD STAR HVAC CONVERSION POSTER. Your concise and informative write up was great. It cleared up quite a few questions. Namely, I will stay with the Penguin II and not convert. Your explanation was what I needed. What is fascinating.....the Blizzard NXT supposedly has a greater or increased Air Flow. That is GREAT for AC....more velocity the better as it helps in cooling. BUT, the converse of that is that it decreases the efficiency of the HP side as the increased air flow cools down the heated air faster and you get colder "air" out of the ducts. The next thought is... Wonder if the increased airflow is just a result of having a smaller air flow (supply) side plenum. Maybe the fans are the same. Basically, you just reduced the size of the plenum to fit the Blizzard. SOMEWHERE I remember on the Dometic site that there is a "Duct Adapter Kit" (required accessory?) when you read the spec sheets and click on the product. I wondered about that. Maybe I saw it when I compared the Blizzard to the NXT. That makes my call easier. I will stay with what I have or make sure that the Tech is as meticulous as you are. You could set up shop at the Gathering and folks might keep you busy....like Chris is... Thanks again. NOTE....when you get a chance....do a "paper flutter' or a "feel" test on the output of a single AC ON with FAN ON test. Turn off the old Penguin and shut off all the interior supply ducts. Turn on the Penguin and see or observe or estimate the air flow at the nearest duct. Then close that duct and go to the Blizzard and do the same test (with only one duct open). Would be interesting to see if you can feel the higher air flow on the Blizzard.

OK...I will try to be less unequivocal..... Here is what I understand and Chris confirmed it with his tech. One NEW Penguin II and the NEW 12 Button (10 if you prefer) on ONCE single phone line. NO PROBLEM. That will work. Obviously....and I don't mean that in a smart @$$ way. One NEW Penguin II and an OLD Penguin on the NEW 12 Button. It ain't gonna work. You can NOT "Smarten UP" or upgrade the OLD Penguin. One NEW Penguin II....WITH the retrofit or perhaps the removal of the SMART controller and the installation of the 12-5 Kit and an OLD Penguin on a single 5 Button T'Stat.....will work. That is the simple statement. NOW....if you read Chris' comments.....the Distributor and Dometic lead them down a rabbit hole....and then came back with the SAME scenario as above. Dometic (as of Chri's post) has NOT shipped the NEW Penguin II's with a Dumb (works with a 5 button T'Stat) control board. THAT is a field mod and they have a detailed instructions. I re-read you post....but I wanted to state it like Domeitc tells you on Tech Support and Chris' tech confirmed. Hope this helps.

Wonderful. As a new owner, congratulations. You can also benefit from the mistakes of us "Seasoned" MOHO's.....so TURN OFF (Note, always use the MODE and set the T'Stat to OFF....the snap or toggle switch on the bottom ain't the most robust) THE AC and then let your Genny run for a few minutes (with Shore OFF). That way you will prevent the sputtering that I had from trying to go to full TWO AC Loads....the Genny was NOT happy

Ken, I edited your post....too confusing when we have multiple Toms....,