Tom Cherry

DO some reading first. If you have the 5 button T'stat, then you can not install the new 12 (actually 10) TStat. It will NOT WORK.....we have a LOT of threads here on that. The new units are "smart". They can be DUMBED DOWN. You have to order the 12 - 5 Button Dometic Control Board (about $125 -$150) on Amazzon. You have to pull out the existing OEM control board on the NEW unit. Take pictures of all wires and such. THEN, you (instructions are in the kit) install a NEW control board. That involves repositioning or moving some wires and also cutting and butt splicing at least one wire. You have to relocate the Ambient Temp Sensor also. Once you have done that, you have DUMBED DOWN the unit It will NOW work with the 5 Button T'Stat. You have to do the RESET afterwards.....that is necessary ANY time you kill power and remove the the board or make changes. Buy yourself nee INLINE PHONE CONNECTORS. The old ones vibrate and you have continuity issues. Once you lose the "connection", even though the AC is OFF, then you have issues. 90% of the "Don't Work" fixes is to either clean the old connectors (male and female) with a Q-tip and alcohol or clean the male ends and put in new connectors. If you look at the Dometic site, you will find the "accessories" or perhaps "a transition" piece. Good idea to replace the internal drain while you are in there. you will need FOIL tape to patch and also seal the plenum. Monaco did a poor job. use this link.....read the ENTIRE post. it is TWO pages long. It answers MOST of your questions and confirms the gist above... That should get you on board....

This was a frequent topic on Yahoo. Here is what the consensus was. Adjusting the arm or pushing it up and down to get more tension (and also keep from hitting the frame) is actually the worst thing to do. When you push it up (for example), the riveted joint has more tension....so it seems "stiffer". BUT, the rivet wears. We had a member that had bought a box of "Tinner's Rivets. They were a harder rivet than the soft OEM rivet. He drilled the rivet out. Put in the new Rivet and then instead of beating it with a hammer on an anvil, he had a hydraulic press and maybe a small forming tool. Then he, properly, upset the end. In the old days, that was called "Bratting" or beating down the edges. His fixes lasted and very few ever had any problems. He is retired....so no JOY, but that was the best solution. Next up.....read this. Hello. Randall Bergen, 249 Cherry Blossom Trail, Dandridge, TN. 37725 - repairs scissor arms - $40. This was a few years ago, so I'd call or email him to check if he is still repairing them. 865-323-1277 rjb4jcpa@gmail.com I could NOT get my door hinge or bracket to our retired member before he closed shop. I contacted Randall. He uses an "OEM" automotive part that is harder and is an exact fit. He does use the Blacksmith method and brats or beats or peens over the rivet. Mine was fixed about 20 K miles ago and probably has been opened and closed several thousand times. I camp with GK and we have a constant flow. The tension is still there. OK....NOTES or hints. First....the Bracket needs to be STRAGHTENED. Randall will probably do that. BUT, if you bend it back to where it is CENTERED...as it was originally, that helps. Second... Use SS 3/16 Pop Rivets for the mounting. They are a PITA to get in. I used a 15" Tool....it is a two handled one. You need a LOT of clamping force. The hand held (single pliers tools) will NOT work. You will tear up the jaws. The tool is great to have and is less than $25. You can buy a cheap pneumatic one. ....but they don;t last. The Door Slot will work find with the SS ones. SOME folks have installed threaded bushings (similar to a threaded insert put in by a Pop Rivet type tool). You can put in screws. However, mine is working fine after several years and the SS rivets don't back out. Hope this helps....

PROBABLY not your issue....but I will throw it out. I left the Shore plugged in. Then, because it was hot and I wanted to have the AC ON....I started the Genny and then pulled the AC (tripped breaker). That upset it beyond all imagination. I tried to restart it. NADA. Finally hit me. DW had been in Toad and was following me to fuel from CG. She did not TURN OFF the AC. So, there was no 120 second (2 minutes) delay. The Genny was put under a load immediately and complained. I let it rest for about half an hour (while I fueled and hooked up toad). I also cut OFF the AC. Bingo....it started and ran great the entire trip. That was maybe 3 years ago and some 20 K and probably some 300 Hours of Genny runtime ago. I would make sure that the AC is NOT on. Let it sit....or reset. Then, crank it. Let it run...hopefully it will....and get warmed up. I think that i let it run for at least half an hour just to get it feeling better. Hope this helps....

OK....as long as you know that we are trying to help you and that folks lose interest when they ask questions to help you and they are not answered....then THEY just sort of go on to something else... I hope you understand that we, the moderators, get "comments" and when the discussions get bogged down and folks suggest things that are totally off base....it just confuses the issues....and it is really hard to sort out FACTS vs SUGGESTIONS... SO...as Rob pointed out..... Your son needs to tell you when he said "NOTHING WORKS", was he talking about the overhead lights or did he try any of the 120 volt or AC outlets. He does not have to be an electrician or engineer to plug in a fan or a cell phone charger or a light and tell you YES or NO.....we have power. You need to get that answered. Next up, the metal can in the picture is a Relay or a Solenoid. So that you have a better understanding...here goes. you have TWO of them. They are like CANS....think a large can of beans. There will be RED cables on two BIG posts. There will be 2 or maybe 3 very small wires. They are NOT printed circuit boards. They are not clear plastic covered. There will be a METAL can or cover and probably a plastic cover. In the picture, that is ONE of TWO in your motor home. BUT WHICH ONE? Read ON.... EDITED 3:10 I did some googling and also looking at YouTube videos. I CAN NOT say with certainity. BUT, I think the Solenoid in your picture is the Battery Boost or the ISOLATION SOLENOID. BUT.....That is an OPINION> If you REALLY want to help folks here, then have your son copy down the information on the solenoid in the picture. I tried reading it but due to the wiring locations can NOT get a real part number or specifications. IF you post that, then folks (or even me) will be able to tell you WHICH one it is. For the interim.....it is STILL important to NOT mess with either one until you KNOW. SO, post the specs from the side of the can and maybe folks will go from there.... There will be TWO of these in your MH. One is bigger than the other. The bigger one (it may be a different brand or look different...but it will be BIGGER in size) . The BIGGER one is your Battery Boost. That is a switch on your dash somewhere or within reach of the Driver when seated. Read or lookup it in the Owner's Manual. You do NOT have a problem with it. You do NOT want to have anyone mess with it or tinker with it. BUT....you need to find the SMALLER one and identify it. I can't tell from the picture....which one it is....the Salesman Solenoid or Relay (SMALLER ONE) or the Battery Boost (LARGER ONE). Someone that has a similar model or can identify it needs to chime in. UNFORTUNATELY....those folks might have given up on this thread and are not reading it. We moderators can NOT control that. The comment that your son made about FIDDLING with the switch means.... There is an electrical failure...most likely in the "Can" in the picture. When he fiddles or turns it on or flips the Salesman Switch at the door, that is like a mechanical LIGHT SWITCH. When the door switch is ON or it pushed ON....the can then makes a circuit between the TWO LARGE RED WIRES. Think about moving one red cable to the other post and bolting them or having them on the same terminal. NOW, you have POWER ALL THE TIME to the 12 DC items....including the Overhead Lights. If you turn OFF or push it the other way....then the can breaks or disconnects the two cables and you have NO POWER. OK....if you understand that....then understand this. This Solenoid or Relay is an accident waiting to happen. It was put on by Monaco so that a salesman did not have to go inside every Motor Home and turn off every 12 VDC switch or light or such. 95 (HIGHER) Percent of us have either REMOVED IT....or REWIRED IT or JUMPERED IT. It is NOT anything that an owner should ever need and it is expensive to replace. Therefore, I sent you a NAPA number for a JUMPER. You take the Jumper and connect it to BOTH of the Cables. You COULD move one cable to the OTHER. That is the same as TURNING ON the salesman's switch. There COULD (highly unlikely) be a door switch. But they are expensive and you have to pull apart the whole console. You or a technician or someone helping you needs to IDENTIFY the SMALLER or the Salesmans Relay or Solenoid and connect BOTH Cables to ONE side or JUMPER or RECABLE it. The NAPA Jumper is the cheapest way to not have to pull and tug on the bigger cables. BUT....I am NOT SURE that your picture is the Salesman or the BATTERY BOOST . So, you have got to find or identify BOTH of them and then jumper or rewire the Salesman. I don't know any other way to explain it. As to the Inverter. YES, most of the time the inverter is ON. Your Owner's Manual tells you where it is. It is probably in a back bay. It may say TRACE or it may say MAGNUM or it may say XANTREX on the cover. That is the three brands that Monaco used. When you have SHORE or Genny power, then the Inverter gets POWER. BINGO....the inverter just switches or routes that incoming power (115 Volt AC or House power like in your home) directly TO the outlets. The Inverter does NOTHING. BUT, when you have NO power, the Inverter is then taking Battery Voltage (your house batteries) and inverting and producing 115 V AC and you still have power to the outlets. NOW, if you turn it off (somewhere in the motorhome), it stops doing that.

THIS IS FROM TOM....as well as the opinions of some other Moderators....as we have discussed and debated what to do.... First and Foremost, the intent of this site is to help people. We have many folks that are willing, and have contributed to that. Your first post was what we call an "EMERGENCY" or DEAD IN THE WATER. That got it moving.... You were asked by me as well as others for specific information. We asked for what you meant by NOTHING works. We even gave you some questions to ask. These were not things that you needed to have an electrician perform. Simple things that could be done with only a plug in lamp or even a phone charger. You never responded to them...or maybe I missed it. You said you son was snot electrically inclined and due to your health, you could not do them. They were, for the record... When the Generator is RUNNING.....do you have 120 VAC (plug in power) to all your receptacles inside the Motor Home. You could plug in a cell phone and see it if was charging or use a plug in light or a small fan or anything that required power. You replied that the "Microwave" light was blinking. Do you have 12 Volt or overhead lights. You never responded to that. So we were still without information. If I have misread or misstaed the above, then I apologize. The issue, which I think you can understand is that we try to help folks that are wiling provide information. When we don't know the simple facts, then many, in a well meaning fashion, will respond with many theories and "advice". MUCH of which may not (will not is more correct) is not related to your Motor Home. This confuses folks as they have to sort out the help or theories and focus on what the real problem is. We still do NOT know.....DO YOU HAVE POWER TO ALL YOUR 120 Volt AC Receptacles? Do you have power to them when plugged in or when on AC or SHORE. That would have prevented the second round of trouble shooting. Next UP.... I did provide you with some options and also detailed instructions. ....to save you money. But, as a moderator, we have to shut down some discussions and tell the folks to PM or EMail them off line and that is the best solution. But, since we do not STILL know exactly what your problem is....that is really frustating. ODDS ARE....you have a defective Salesman's Relay. That is PROBABLY the one in your pictures. Unfortunately, your reluctance to provide timely and meaningful answers has probably caused some folks to decide not to participate. We or myself, can not control the Group's "mood". We are a really useful resource....if you read all the comments about what we have done for folks. BUT, when folks jump in and quickly respond and don't get timely or even a simple answer, they decide to just NOT GET INVOLVED. That is human nature. Due to your physical condition and such, we tried to help out. I have not, as was suggested , shut down this thread....However, sometimes things just keep getting asked again and again....we have had folks fail to reply and then several days later....say. Thanks, I got it fixed. Then the will not provide some details so we can learn and help others. This site is a two way street and human nature will preavail. I am asking anyone STILL reading (and that number is dwindling) to assist you, OFFLINE if possible in determining if the Solenoid in the picture (the one on the right) is your Salesman's Switch. I THINK it is. Your comment about "Fiddling" with the switch tells us that the solenoid is defective. That solenoid has NOTHING to do with your AC power. SO, again, if you confirm that you have all AC power on for all outlets while running the Genny or on Shore, we have eliminated a cause or a variable. Hope this makes sense to you. We ARE trying to save you money. We were also responding to your "If I can't get it fixed, I am gonna sell it ...." or words to that effect. We felt that it was a know defect and had a fix (low cost) for it. BUT, since we never received any answers.....then it got even more frustrating. I hope this clears it up and you understand. As I said, if I were there or familiar with your MH, I would send you step by step instruction that even your SON or a good auto mechanic could follow I don't think that reflects a "Don't Care" attitude. Thanks....

yes, that is true. He never would say if his son tested any of the outlets or tried the Microwave. This "NOTHING WORK" finally morphed into no LIGHTS as he talked about cycling the switch at the door several times. I agree that this type of post and the lack of response is really frustrating and it turns off a lot of folks that could have helped and actually reached out to him. We moderators walk a tight rope when we specifically request information and there is no response or the answer is totally useless. In the OLD Yahoo, Colonel Bill and Fred have shut down such. I debated after a lot of trying to help as to whether to just close and lock this. My frustration is high....and since the OP has health issues, I tried to bend over and help him out. Unless he posts again....I may just close it out and use this post as the reason. Everyone tried and there was not an equal effort to supply into. Debating it now and trying to rehash it is a waste. My suggestion for everyone involved is to take this OFFLINE. If you want to help or are curious, then PM the original poster and work with him. IF you get meaningful info or an explanation, them PM me and I will post it. Otherwise, it seems totally useless ....NOW. Thanks...

Actually, Richard, he did tell us that....sort of..... He said in a post a long time ago in a land that seemed far away.... Microwave blinks. Many folks asked, repeatedly, WHAT WAS NOT WORKING. The "Microwave" blinking was the ONLY thing that was responded to. The Genny cranked. The guys that know his rig said that the "lights and indicator panels" LOOKED OK. We asked for him to test the interior outlets....but that was never done. His post today is the FIRST time that he answered the question... Do you have interior lights. All I can glean....is that when he said NOTHING works....he really meant that he had no interior lights. SO....that is as good as it gets. We can NOT fix something when information is not provided or simple questions are disregarded.... This really sort of closes it out.....and if there are still issues....then , unless we get facts and info and answers, it will be a dead thread....as in it will be closed due to lack of information. Many folks have tried to help and it is frustrating when a simple question goes unanswered.....

TWO CHOICES....HIRE SOMEONE TO REMOVE IT AND NOT REPLACE IT. Less than half an hour's job. Typically you pay for an hour for a service call. Second....Take Pictures of where the electrical stuff with the big RED cables are. Post them. Someone SHOULD identify it for you. I don't have the same year or I would. The Salesman's Solenoid is a big "Thingie" what a metal can and a black top . It will have TWO large Red Cables and two small wires. The larger cables are connected to the studs. If you take off the nuts, you can put a NAPA Jumper across the terminals. This then Bypasses the Relay. NAPA 781144 is the NAPA Part number. Costs $7 or so. https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=781144&referer=semantic&se=1 There will be TWO of these large relays on the Motor Home. The smaller one is the Salesman's relay. it will be marked and rated or have maybe say 80 or 100 Amps. The OTHER one, which is Larger, will say or be rated at 200 Amps. You need to take pictures and have someone help you make sure WHICH is the Salesman's Switch. Then Disconnect the HOUSE battery (at the battery post) and then remove the two nuts and put this across the two large studs.....that makes a circuit across them. That is the way it is done. You MIGHT google BYPASSING THE SALESMANS SWITCH Monaco and find a YouTube video. In the picture, the individual took off the short cable on the RIGHT and put the NAPA Jumper to the other side. The simple thing is to leave both cables ON and then put the Jumper on the terminals..... Hope this helps. Any good Automotive tech or mechanic should be able to do this. This ain't ROCKET science... Good Luck....

Don't disagree with anything that you say. However, many of us have been involved or know of the "Exploits" of Tyron. Tyron is an English company. A VEC guy in CA (where else??) bought the Tyron USA Franchise in the late 90's or the early 20's. Fred White, one of our founders, was close to Chuck Thatcher. David Pratt also knows more about this that I can relate....but to make it simple. Tyron''s USA market was FIRST.....Military. THEN Emergency..... Next up was Aircraft. There were (maybe still are) a LOT of private aircraft running the Tyron Bands. I was with Chuck Thatcher one day when he was "on contract" to Lazy Days. He spent most of that day trying to catch up with a development (application) engineer in Europe as there was a pricey 2 engine Corporate Jet sitting in a hanger with no rubber on the ground. The owner(s) had ordered the Bands....which were about 5X more than what we were paying....and the Power Frame (FAA Certified) Tech objected and said that he wanted to see "Certifications".....as well he should... OK....the MH industry got bombarded.....and the VEC in CA made Chuck an offer that he could not refuse. SO, Chuck became the owner of the Tyron USA account and then worked on the gravy applications....which was MILITARY and DEFENSE. Meanwhile, folks were experimenting with all sorts of "Run Flat", Tire in Tire, Inserts, Bands, Sprayed Kevlar Structural Foam....you name it...it probably has been tried.... NOW, due to our society....an maybe due to the Drug Cartels all over the world, there is a demand for "Bullet Proof" tires. If the tire be Bullet Proof, then presumably use peons with our monsterous rigs should be able to tap into that market. If you google, there are many designs. You can can up to "22" truck tires. OPPS, they mean the low profile high rise wheels that are popular with the tricked out Escapade rides. I know that many of the local emergency folks have had pitches for outfitting the large ambulances with "Bands, Run-Flats, whatever). However, there seems to be NO interest in the 22.5 Size that is on the fire trucks and the hook an ladder rigs. I don't doubt that the RetroBands are trying to corner a niche market.....and have to be on a price point with Tyron. Right now....they have a "problem".....small or large....sort of like an accuser that says that a local politico "done touched her inappropriately". NOW....was she consenting? Were they more than friends?....the list of questions goes on.... THEN that original "Problem" is defined as Trivia, Minor, Maybe, Colassal, or HUNT HIM DOWN LIKE A DOG IN THE STREETS. And that is NON-Partisan and NOT aimed at one party or individual. As long as there is a "concern" or a whiff....then that issue needs to be addressed. Price point is "Tyron". If you can tout a product that meets or exceeds Tyron....then you can get maybe 20 - 25% MORE for it. You might price it low and let its claims escalate and then improve your margins. I don't know....past that. BUT, until now....RetroBand has been the most serious contender for Tyron. It MAY have more advantages. It is NOT the "Military or Presidential Motorcade" approach..... I don't think that any of us would pay $25K per wheel or higher....unless we were the Government.... My thoughts..... OK....I'm bored. I am reloading the OS on several "older" PC's that I am donating to a local mission that supplies PC's to kids now going all virtual. That takes about 6 hours per PC. NOW....I am not watching things spin on the screen....but I am in the area and have about 4 projects going.... This thread keeps popping up. I did a little more GOOGLING. I could NOT find an hits for a "Blowout PROOF Tractor Trailer Tire". Lots of ads for the "22" low profile Escalade" crowds.....SO, if anyone has some applications or info on such....chime in here. However, I DID see an article that sort of got me to wondering.....and since my front axle is pushed to the limit because of where Monaco put the fuel and fresh water tanks....I DO know what the tire plate spec is and where I have to run. I have the 295/80R22.5 (nomenclature may be slightly off)..... This is an interesting comment....and I assume that the publication and writer are informed....look at the info. https://www.truckinginfo.com/312435/steer-tire-inflation-leaves-no-margin-for-error Several members here have customized screens on their laptops that show TP. I watch my PressurePro "New" monitor like a hawk. Now, I KNOW that their "Temps" are at the wheel....but you can get an idea and see (with the new sensors that are not just blocks of 20 dF) what Heat (black asphalt versus white concrete) will do to the overall "Rim" temperature... as well as pressures. Happy reading....back to Uncle Bill (of MSFT fame)....

We probably agree more than it seems like. I certainly do respect your credentials and you got my point. As to the Material. YES, you can use a lot of materials in environments that might not be in the stated "list". Your bushings are obviously an example. However, until you simulate the internal temperatures of a failed tire and then thermo cycle the material a few million times, I am skeptical. Having talked to the (at that time) Engineering Manager for Bridgestone Commercial Tire division, who was also a MH owner, I would want to know more. BS did a LOT of experimenting, as do the other major Tire companies did...as well as some of the first (gonna corner the market after the Explorer/Firestone incident) TPMS folks.... I understand some of the dynamics of the tires and their safety limits. What I do NOT know....and probably will never find out.. When a tire starts to heat up due to a slow pressure leak, the internal (call it the "atmosphere") temperature starts to rise. When you get above 180 dF (or somewhere approaching 200), the tire begins to deteriorate or is past the "Working or the Thermodynamic Equilibrium Temperature, then you are prone to failure. What I do NOT know....and have not seen .... How HOT does it actually get inside the TIRE....before it fails or comes apart? That is, I believe, a highly guarded secret. YES, the companies have tested it. BUT if you had a continuous time/temperature plot.....with a time scale to show when the pressure "dropped"...as in failed.....then I do NOT know how HOT it gets inside and what range that the Polyurethane has to be rated at for safety or where it will fail. We DO know that the thermal cycle of a tire is from ambient to around 160 - 170 or so. I would love to see the material tested or "certified" for a few thousand cycles. I would choose 70 - 250 dF (unless I had info that said that a tire will "hold together for upwards of 300 dF....then let that be the upper limit. THEN, take the tested or cycled material(s) and do all the performance testing that Brett talks about. THEN.....I would less skeptical. That is how MOST of the durability or design or specs are developed. We had to go through a few hundred thousand thermocycle tests to convince AMC that a shortened Nylon bushing inside the Throttle Return Spring would BE OK....as we figured out that the nylon bushing was rubbing an out of spec "boss" on the Throttle Body and causing the rubbing or the sticking. THEN, we had to STAMP a REV code on each Reburbished unit so that if it was ever rebuilt in the field, you have to use a shortened bushing.... That's how I see it. I DO think that MOST folks consider this as a "Life Saving" device or a safety feature.....or else WHY would you buy it. Thanks for your comments and insights.....

Quite True....as well as HotRod's "Test Pilot" comment. BUT, even someone that had NOT involved with or ever has done Product Development or Product Design....common sense says.....I would probably, after reading all the comments, WANT to know MORE.... Tell me about the MATERIAL and what it's OPERATING RANGE (Heat). The design is patented and I doubt that Alibaba will be "Knocking it OFF".... I would want to know the Material Spec and also see the CERTIFICATIONS on it. If you are at all familiar with Lot Control and FAA or OEM Safety Items - FMVSS (memory) manufacturing protocols, you typically have to submit TEST DATA that includes the Vendor, Material (SIC or Vendor Specific), Lot Certification (Testing) data, Test Method (parameters and such), etc.....the list is long and boring and distinguished..... THEN, after you test something and get a Federal or a "Professional" approval (like UL or SAE or whatever), then for any SAFETY ITEM....you should have a complete history of the LOT Numbers and the Sequence (SN) data as to WHICH parts were manufactured from which lots (and if there are multiple materials....you have each Lot Cert info)...THEN, your files must also have all design changes and revisions. MAYBE all that exists? If so, and multiple lots of Polyurethane were used, then you could do some real "Accident Investigation" work and find out if the issue was a bad lot of material (molding resin) or such..... I guess that I am a bit more "concerned". I worked for a Carburetor Company and was assigned as the SPECIAL RECALL PROJECT MANAGER on two occassions. I had to handle a massive "Throttle Spring Failure" or ....the dadgummed thing will stick open at WOT or PT. That included finding out the cause (an IDIOT molding supervisor that approved the continued running of a part when it was out of spec) as well as developing a FIX that could be done (AMC personally came in and spent a week overlooking our test results and the fix and the record keeping) . I also did another recall.....both of these were NHTSA documented issues or had numbers assigned. Then, just for the fun of it, I helped the TPS folks that made most of the 2005 - 2010 units used on the ISL (and maybe others) by Monaco...as well as many other chassis vendors... set up their Recall and then helped develop their "FIX" specs so that a field tech could do them....and not have to have a lab and special tools. I only made my comments as a caution.....which David Pratt also stated... FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR MEMBERS. If I planned to purchase a "revised" set of bands....then I would really want a WHOLE LOT MORE info....and YES....the communications appear to be quite open....but I SNIFF a hint of "Legal" wordsmithing....with a touch of PR. Having also been, in a later life, involved in Product Liability Cases....I have had to pull years of "files" and also be "DEPOSED" (think Colonscopy without anestheia....), I GUESS that I am a bit more suspicious or perhaps....SKEPTICAL This is a serious issue.... I would rather have MORE technical data and insight....and I think that they appear to be "open" as well as have "The Customer is ALWAYS RIGHT". I do NOT doubt the sincerity of Brett Davis. He sounds like a stand-up guy....but he might NOT have the acumen or the resources or the background that is needed to make sure that EVERY ASPECT of the redesign and the recall is handled in a manner that would meet NHTSA overshight (which it appears it will NOT).

drop off the alpha characters starting with C and then google them. You can also try Install manual 640316 or the same using 641816.... OR call Dometic.....

RetroBand, in theory, has one edge....as far as I can see, over the Tyron Bands. The Tyron Bands depends on the tire casing to keep you under control. When the tire goes "out", the beads are supposed to stay in place and therefore, as the tire deflates, you are riding on the sidewall of the tire as the tire's beads don't wallow around in the well and then come flying off. So, from a design standpoint....the RetroBand looks like it might have an edge. BUT, what is troubling....and that depends on how folks look at this....is that if you continue to do some googling, you find 9 pages of comments on another forum. There does not seem to be an "real world" experience when the RetroBand took over and kept the MH safe. We have that with Tyron.... And I understand the differences in the design and the theories. The OTHER thing is that no matter how much I google, I keep getting upward limits of just over 200 dF for polyurethanes. The overtightening, where vehicles were properly installed (see one of the posts where a meticulous individual used a torque wrench and did it "By the book" was the FIRST assignable cause. But, further investigation showed that there was a flaw in the design and thus, the RetroBands now have a "Precautionary" steel band. I understand the torque brake theory and that the gearbox (which seems a little overkill and complex) is structurally or mechanically sound. https://gallaghercorp.com/polyurethane-temperature-range/#:~:text=In general%2C polyurethane can be,C (300°F). I MAY have missed it in the letter and the comments on the OTHER site....which were also from Brett Davis (he sounds like our good friend Brett Thomas....who was a great resource)....but I never saw any comments on the type of Polyurethane used and it being a special high temperature formulation. If you add in the steel band and beef up the fastening system, but then continue to have thermal cycling and/or stress points (contact or heat related), then I don't quite have the confidence that a workable solution or fix has been accomplished. Again....the first was overtightening. BUT, it would be interesting to pull a random sample of the bands and do some critical looking at the points were the failures were. My experience is not of a certified or PE in the molding and materials industry....but I did a lot of work and designed a lot of products and talked to a lot of suppliers and such over the years. Thus, this engineer is skeptical and want some real world testing and thermal cycling. Have not figured out how you get up a design of experiments to replicate the heat inside a tire and jack it up to say 250 - 275 dF and then have the forces (centripetal, centrifugal or centipede....LOL) on the tire. Maybe setting up a test track on the Bonneville Salt Flats and doing an endurance run for a few weeks would be in order.... SO....I think the jury is still out....and wonder IF there is a failure of the Gen 2 Retrobands if there will be a "Materials Change"....sometimes even the folks that are overly cautious and want to make changes don't go far enough....and often run with the first theory out of the door...

Your call. You did not say how MANY of the AC's have been upgraded. My ASSUMPTION is that you have done ONE and have TWO to go. I would find the FIRST tech or a tech that can "Swap out" the board. Otherwise, you will have to purchase a board this time around. NOW you have TWO new (SMART) AC's. When the final one craps out....same deal. If you can use the old board and the tech knows how to work it....then you keep on truckin' There MAY come a time when you 5 Button T'Stat ceases to function.....or you LOSE one of the "OLD" Control Boards in an AC. Then, you dillema.....WHAT is the best solution. DO I purchase a REFURBISHED T'Stat and then hope for the best.....That is your call and your pocket book... ONE approach MIGHT BE.... Do the swap NOW and use the OLD board. You are NOT out the $150 and the swap seems easy and you don't spend a LOT on labor. BUT, I would take photos of the NEW Board as it is installed and which wires go where. THEN pull out the NEW board and keep it locked up and keep the photos on file or printed. When the THIRD unit goes TU, then buy a NEW control board for the original (last summer) unit. have it reconfigured as a SMART unit. Reconfigure the second one (the one you are going to do NOW). Put in the 12 Button T'Stat. I will also throw in a MONKEY WRENCH.....one that folks MIGHT not be aware of.... You MAY (most (likely) actually have FOUR controllers. They do NOT show up when you reboot or reset the TStat. One of our learned individuals with a similar Dynasty says that there is a FOURTH Control Board or Module that is hidden in the bowels us his rig. He as found it. It is "memory" a Dometic Control Board and it controls some of the AquaHot functions. That is about as much as I KNOW about that. SO, if you ever do UPGRADE to the 12 Button system....you MIGHT find that you lose functionality in one zone or one area of the AquaHot. HE MAY chime in here....or NOT. Bottom line. STOP USING THE ON/OFF switch on the 5 Button T'Stat. The folks here and at the Gathering say the the refurbishers and folks that sell the discontinued 5 button units say that the ON/OFF switch is harder to FIX. They recommend that you turn ON and OFF the AC or whatever function via the MODE button...I have started to do that after the 2018 Gathering. I have had my T'Stat apart and done the PM and cleanup on it. It seems OK. If you never plan on upgrading, then a wise individual MIGHT purchase a spare OLD control Board (new or refurbished) and also a Spare Refurbished T'stat. Eventually, one of those will fail.... BUT, it is your MH and now your know some more info..... Good Luck....

Totally agree with Richard. That tech ain't the sharpest knife in the door. If he really believes that....then as my daddy used to say about my mom sometime...."She DON'T Know...." You have, if I understand it, TWO things to get done. First. I HOPE that you have the ORIGINAL Board from the unit you had installed last summer. IF NOT....then you will have to purchase one. If the tech used the OLD board from your OLD AC, and it works with your 5 Button T-Stat, then at least the tech did it right. There MAY be articles or instructions for using the OLD board from a unit and it appears that tech was savvy enough to make it work and saved you a bundle. The labor to CONVERT the "12 - 5" Board....so that it can be installed has to be close to an hour.. SO, the board, that MOST would have bought, was say $150. Add in $100 or so since the tech was SUPPOSED to cut and splice and make changes....then you came out OK>>>> NOW....you will need to have the tech REINSTALL the original Board in last Summer's unit. Fortunately, you DO have a new one to use as a model or example. Second....you will need the NEW 12 Button (which has been called 10 because two of the buttons don't seem to add any functionality). I would try to find the ORIGINAL Tech... OR, I would go somewhere and tell them what is you have been told needs to be done and see if they agree. If not....then I would wonder. This is not exactly like wiring up a NASA control panel to launch a rocket. Again, the tech last year SHOULD have given you the ORIGINAL board to be used when you upgraded. Hope this helps...

Paul, THANKS FOR SHARING AND GIVING US AN UPDATE. Your issues, while not trivial to you, also resulted in another thread being updated. Had it not been for your issues and your concerns, then we would NOT have learned as much as we did. Glad it worked out well for you. Glad it is running. Hats off to you for tacking such. As they say...."In my YOUNGER DAYS" or as Billie Joel says..."When I wore a YOUNGER MAN'S Clothes....", I might have attempted what you did. It is folks like you that do some difficult and seemingly daunting things and then help the rest out that makes this a great site. My comments are not just personal, but also on behalf of the entire "Moderating Crew"

NOW that explains IT. I have seen the "NEW" T'Stat called a 10 Button and a 12 Button. Dometic, in their "Retro Kit or the 12 - 5 "CONVERSION control board uses the "12 BUTTON" designation. Thanks for clearing this up. This whole mess is confusing as is....without a semantics or terminology issue....

Chris.... I fixed this "thread". I will fix the others....if they need it. As a dealer and also a person with a LOT of common sense.....when you have time....can you go back to my questions about the Penguin II versus the Blizzard NXT. I realize that might only be of interest to those of us that USE the Heat Pump....but I still do NOT understand the differences or the advantages of ONE over the OTHER. Thanks for chiming in an d correcting this....

AGAIN....I am NOT the expert.....but I DO try to listen and understand the Experts. This is generic....but it has plagued folks (even MOI). The entire Penguin (5 Button or 12 or 10 is there is such a critter) is MULTIPLEXD. AFTER you install a new board or change a dip switch setting or do whatever......you must do a SYSTEM RESTART.... TURN OFF the T'Stat with the ON/OFF switch....then follow these directions.... Press and hold the MODE and ZONE buttons simultaneously, then turn the ON/OFF switch to the ON position. The LCD will display “FF”. OK....that is SOMETIMES necessary when the blinkin' thing (the HVAC System) STOPS or you only see ONE zone. NOW....you can LOSE you zone 2 and that is a sign that you have a Multiplex issues. The SOLUTION.....CARRY NEW INLINE PHONE CONNECTORS. Over the years, you have vibration as well as dust and whatever. The contacts on the phone jacks get FUNKY. I carried them for years....but when mine went out a few trips ago....they were NOWHERE to be found. My solution....QTip swab and Rubbing Alcohol. I cleaned the contacts. The Phone jacks and the INline connections. I then did the RESTART. BINGO....we had both systems. I know this sounds TRITE. BUT, you also sometimes have to UNPLUG and REPLUG and then repeat a few times. THEN do the Reset... As to REMOTE Sensors. The typical pathway is this. Thermostat connector (behind the T-'Stat) goes to the FRONT unit. There are TWO dangling phone lines from the Unit (on the roof). This is the CONTROL Board. These are NOT marked. They are NO Numbered or Sequenced. You plug (via the Inline Connector) the line from the T'Stat in to one....and there is a LINE (Phone Line wire) also up there that goes to the NEXT (middle if you have THREE) unit....or the back if you only have TWO. NOW....back there it gets tricky. I can't quite figure mine out. I have a WALL temp sensor. It goes to the BOX. The line from the front Unit comes to the rear. I do NOT know how they are connected. All I know is that i have ONE dangling (not connected) wire from the roof top. One of these days, I'm gonna figure that out.... Thanks to Chris for the UPDATE and the Revisions. Scotty MAY have done some housekeeping....if NOT, then I will . That also means that I might KILL some erronious INFO in other posts as well...

OK.....UPDATE. Had the Camping World in Garner replace the dead Stromberg Carlson (Lipper Label) motor yesterday. The motor was on sale for $144.97 The labor was $148.50 SO, with my "CW SUPER DUPER DISCOUNTS", the Labor and Materials....without any add on's was $293.47 NOW, we ALL know that we have "Surcharges" and such.... SO here they are... PPE Surcharge - COVID19 >>> $8.71 Shop Charges (ALL shops have some) >>> $26.73 NC, thanks to our Legislature 7.25% tax ALL ITEMS >>> $23.85 OUT THE DOOR...... >>> 452.33 I am HAPPY. I was looking at $78 for just an "Aftermarket" Motor and it was supposed to be OEM. WAS NOT....WOULD NOT FIT.....DROVE ME CRAZY..... Amazon had the motor for around $17 MORE. It was the LIPPERT PN which was supposedly the SAME. OK....today, it is on sale for LESS....at $129.34. Guess I will have to call and find out. BUT, E-Trailer is $238. EDITED 8-14-20. Did not have time to call CW until this AM. Took all of 3 minutes to get the $!6.XX credit for the additional sales price reduction. Therefore, it was around $436 out the door. Pleasant surprise from CW..... Meanwhile....back to the original post... BOTTOM LINE. IT IS FIXED and my DW is a happy camper.....in that she did NOT have to hand me tools. I also did NOT have to get out in the afternoon heat to fix it. The tech put on LOCTITE and Bulb Grease as I requested. This is the 5th time (memory) that I took something apart and could NOT get it BACK together (after I figured out WHAT was wrong or had the replacement Part)....so I don't feel bad....and that dates back maybe 68 years or so as they kidded me that my first words were TAKEE APART. I can remember watching my uncle upgrade my grand ma's treadle sewing machine with a rawhide belt and motor.....and I was about 3 then and he explained to me WHAT he was doing and why it worked.... YES....this is also my SECOND happy experience with a CW Dealer. SO, that might be a miracle. I can RECOMMEND Michael Reyes, the Service Writer, at the Garner, NC CW..... He is first class. END OF DRAMA. I tested it in all modes and it works like a champ and we are happy....

Chris has POSTED a correction and also deleted his previous posts.. I am REVISING this post so that we have the CORRECT info.... Chris.....if there is still an issue or a mistake, PM me and I will fix it...., As a Moderator, I wanted to see if we could make this a concise topic.....since there are two or possibly three banging around. SO....if you will help sort this out and correct any misstatements,, we would appreciate it. I have read and reread and tried to understand what is going on. I had also talked to Dometic circa 2017/18 and done an update for the old Yahoo site.....so here goes... Thermostat Issue. If I understand it correctly..... Dometic has NOT made any running changes. If you purchase a NEW "Smart" unit (I assume that this covers the Penguin II as well as the Blizzard NXT.... YOU STILL NEED to SWAP OUT the control board. You have to order a "12 - 5" Button Module. Dometic 3313107.107 CCC2 to CCC 12 Button to 5 Button Heat Pump Conversion Kit RV Parts NOW , as Chris says..... KEEP THE OLD BOARD. DO NOT throw it away. You need to PHOTO Document the wiring on that board. EVENTUALLY, when you replace the other unit(s) and install the 12 Button T'Stat, you have to GO BACK. MANY folks have opted to replace ALL the units. The NEW or the CONVERSION board runs from maybe $140 tp $200.....depending on where you purchase. I am GUESSING, but looking at the procedure....you might incur an HOUR or so labor. That mean that when you DO replace the other unit and purchase the NEW T'Stat, you have to incur the "CHANGE BACK TO ORIGINAL" time. SO, you MIGHT spend upwards of $400 or more.....just to UTILIZE the OLD 5 Button and keep it runniing for awhile. That is something that each individual has to decide.... Finally, to summarize. You have to DUMB DOWN (put in the CONVERSION 12 - 5 Board....which involves totally revising the wiring for the OLD 5 Button to work. You CANNOT "SMARTEN UP" an OLD Penguin. SO, you cannot USE the 12 Button T'Stat on an OLD unit. NOW, some enterprising tech MIGHT have come up with a workaround. I am NOT knocking success....but until there is a SURE fix and we have feedback that it WORKS.....We have to go with Chris's techs comments as well as the other shops and also what Dometic says.... IT is either DUMB DOWN one new unit and forgo the expense of a total upgrade....and if you do that and pay a dealer for that....you probably will spend about $400 MORE....you MIGHT sell the conversion board on eBay.....but that will be only a fraction of the cost. That is why a LOT of folks just bide their time. When ONE FAILS....bit the bullet and have ALL upgraded. IF you do it yourself....then you are only OUT the cost of the Conversion Board. OK>>>>>>MOVING ALONG...... Now to the differences in the Penguins and the Blizzards.....or if we were at a Zoo with a DQ next door, we have issues.... A LOT of us have the TWO (Factory) 15KW Penguins. My 40 Ft Camelot has marginal cooling with them in really HOT weather. They have been checked for Delta T and both are running within the specs.....as well as for the HP. I even was instructed by a Senior Dometic Tech and he had me go through BOTH systems in the fall when I needed AC in the day and Heat at night and mine are FINE.....there may be too many air leaks.... BOTTOM LINE.....If I wanted to put in NEW Dometic Units, then I would HAVE to have 15KW in each one. The confusion is WHICH unit I would need.... There is a LOT of discussion about the Penguin II's and them being 13.5KW. BUT if I go to the Dometic website, I find this LINK. https://www.dometic.com/en-us/us/products/climate/air-conditioners/rv-air-conditioners/dometic-penguin-ii-w-heat-pump-_-153319 If I scroll down and read the specs.....this is a 15K unit that should be the equivalent of my existing Penguins....in size and capacity.... SO, I could use these....?? IS THAT CORRECT? Next up, up jumps the Blizzards.....IF I go to the following Link. https://www.dometic.com/en-us/us/products/climate/air-conditioners/rv-air-conditioners/dometic-blizzard-nxt-_-21231 The Blizzard NXT appears, from a cooling standpoint, to be equivalent. The Blizzard has a "HP Heating" spec but the Penguin II does not. So here is what I think that I know... The Blizzard is 14" high. The Penguin II says 11 1/4, but the brochure says that it is a LOW PROFILE and lists 10". There is also a comment that you have to have an Air Distribution Box. Bottom line.....for most of us.....are our OLD Penguins around 11 1/4" ROOF height...so we we swapped to the Blizzard NXT, we would loose 2 3/4" of clearance? Is that correct The Blizzard NXT says it has the highest rated (350 CFM) fan.....so I assume that the Penguin II is a lower CFM. More AIR when Cooling, as long at it not turbine, is typically BETTER. But MORE air in heating actually is worse as it cools down... Bottom line....what are the Pro's and Cons' for each one. Cost? More efficiency? Noise (blower)? Customer comments..... Thanks for addressing this.....There has to be MANY like me that are planning ahead and when ONE dies.....we are going to put in TWO.... I

That sounds logical to me. but,, there is NOTHING out there of doing a NON HP (AC ONLY) to the conversion. However, if you call 800 Dometic, you WILL then get a person.... You just keep hitting ZERO and # when they ask for an account number......then you will have to be transferred to Consumer Tech Support. All the data sheets on what I THINK you have, say HP. OPPS.... If you go back to your ORIGINAL AC PN, and have the instructions.....does it have a PN for the Conversion Kit.... Dometic 3313107.107 CCC2 to CCC 12 Button to 5 Button Heat Pump Conversion Kit RV Parts If you have this, then you will, most likely, have to wait in line and talk to Dometic. That unit specifically says it is for a HP Conversion. I don't know what else to suggest.....but the Dometic Techs have been helpful in the past....

My math was based on your current ride....so much for an assumption....LOL....

Richard, you comment is interesting....and I am a bit confused..... I talked to Dometic. I have read a LOT of the various posts. This is what I THOUGHT that I understood.... The 10 (or maybe 12) button NEW thermostat will NOT work with the old units. That T'Stat, per Dometic, is a SMART T'Stat and the old original HVAC (AC with or without HP) are DUMB....in that they only work with the OLD 5 button T'Stat. Dometic says they have a Control Board that "Dumbs DOWN" the new units. So, you have to purchase an additional Control Board (now upwards of $175) and then do a "not that simple" rewiring or reconfiguring job on the NEW units. Once you successfully rewire and reconfigure the NEW unit....and then do the RESET of the 5 Button T'Stat.....all should work well. SO, if you opt to put in the NEW Unit and use the NEW 10 Button, you will have to have separate control (phone cords) to each unit and have BOTH T'Stats on the wall as you can NOT multiplex and have them work together. NOW....again.... I can be wrong. In addition, there are a LOT of smart folks out there that say that they have figured out how to "hack" or make the units compatiable. BUT, as of a year or so ago, Dometic said that the above was the ONLY way for the Old T'Stat to Multiplex and work with a NEW unit. OK....before I hit SUBMIT....I did some MORE googling to see if the situation had changed. There are a LOT of posts out there that state what I understand. One poster, on another forum ,added a tidbit. He bought a "box" or a modified control board for his OLD unit that would make it SMART. He had a buddy do the work. NO JOY. He then spent a lot of time with Dometic. They said the same thing.....absolutely NO WAY to get the new T'Stat and there is some debate about 10 vs 12,, to work on an older style MULTIPLEXED 5 Button (Select or Toggle unit, Down, Up, Fan Mode) T'stat.... He was ordering an OEM Dometic Dumb Down Control board for the NEW AC. SO, if you can elaborate..... Trying to sort this out a little more....AND if there IS a Smarten Up box (would have to aftermarket or a "hacked" control board), then info on that would be helpful. Thanks...

Fascinating that you lost an ATS after 2 years. We have folks that still on their original 2000 or so ATS. NOW, we have had failures of the ITOA's that were a design issue, but after putting in the recommended ESCO. Your comment is a generic solution....but may not be related to the issues here. The OP is a little sketchy on the info. That causes a lot of Generic, and sometimes misinformed or counterproductive replies.... That is why we ask that folks with similar rigs or similar problems for those years and those models take the lead on the trouble shooting. This is what we have gleaned....... The Genny Starts. Presumably, the Genny is cranked OFF the House....but that far back....one does NOT know... The older models were a mixed bag and sometimes an Elkhart MH would be different from an Oregon MH.....or close.....like "Which Bank cranks the Genny?". OR, there is a Slide Lock Out relay so my slides will not work with the Ignition ON.....and then next year, the SAME MH does not have that.... THESE are the reasons.... The Genny, when running, only supplies voltage to ONE of the TWO (presumably) 120 AC circuits. The Microwave is blinking....which MAY mean that one of the two circuits works and that there MAY be a circuit breaker on the Inverter that is tripped. The folks that looked at the various pictures he posted seem to be of the agreement that the "Genny" and the AC side look fine....from the readings and the indicator lights. IT has taken a long time just to determine that the OP's definition of "Nothing Works" appears to be AC related....but not a total lack of AC. The MH appears, based on his comments, to start OK as he has it "Fixed....when the Ring/Pinion broke". We have not been advised if he has 12 VDC Power to the interior lights. He has "Cycled" the door switch and that switch WORKS....but we have NO idea on whether he has 12 VDC power and if the Salesman switch is the the probable cause. If is VERY difficult for folks to help that understand the causes and such and to ask for more simple answers and details....and then not to get any input.... Sometimes generic answers not related to the actual problem will confuse and exacerbate the real solution.... Thanks. for understanding....