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Tom Cherry

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  1. Tom Cherry's post in Brand new michelins with 2008 date code was marked as the answer   
    If not used, tires last for 6-10 years, depending on the storage and environmental conditions. Overall, the time limits for stored tires are much the same as for tires that are being used. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and official manufacturers suggest a tire is only 100% safe to use until it turns 5-6 years old. However, some admit that a tire can be operable up to 10 years if you check it for issues annually after the 5th year.
    https://www.utires.com/articles/how-long-do-tires-last-if-not-used/#:~:text=Overall%2C the time limits for,turns 5-6 years old.
    After five years or more in use, your tires should be thoroughly inspected at least once per year by a professional. If the tires haven't been replaced 10 years after their date of manufacture, as a precaution, Michelin recommends replacing them with new tires.
    https://www.michelinman.com/auto/auto-tips-and-advice/tire-buying-guide/when-do-i-need-new-tires#:~:text=After five years or more,per year by a professional.&text=If the tires haven't,replacing them with new tires.
    The above comes from Michelin.  Many have stated the common sense and generally accepted standards.  Suggest that you contact Michelin for a more complete technical answer.
    Bottom line, these tire are unsafe at any speed....to paraphrase Mr. Nader. It is NOT RECOMMEND that you run them. The decision, as well as the liability, is yours, but if there were an accident and the public information posted here was used in the due diligence of a legal proceeding, then there may be issues of "validity of coverage" from your insurance carrier due to knowingly installing or having improper or unsafe components on the vehicle.
     
  2. Tom Cherry's post in 2002 Windsor High Charge Voltage at Startup Anomaly was marked as the answer   
    First off.  You have the Intellitec Diesel BIRD….OR “DIESEL” Module.  The newer ones were called “Diesel2”.  Some minor upgrades.  It cal called the Charg(ing) Controller. Now That is in a picture.  Do NOT sweat that there is no wire on Generator.  Monaco or Intellitec “thought” that dual charging was a NONO. Best guess….they copied another MH or were misinformed or”lacking knowledge”.  Bottom line….the Genset wire doesnt exist on the later ones….so cross that off.
    Next. The isolator is totally NON FUNCTIONAL.  It is just a “connection stud”. The infamous WHITE wire should trace back to the Coach Battery Terminal on the Charging controller.  It is just an INPUT. Same goes for the IGNITION.  It is the input from the Ignition….as in when the MH is running…..as in, then the module is monitoing the Coach Bank and the Chassis (when running) bank.  OK….that leaves ONE wire.  This is the RELAY or it goes to the Battery Bank BOOST Solenoid.  Trace that wire…..I HOPE it goes directly….but it MIGHT go to one of the two relays (black boxes).
    Here’s how it works….  The LATER edition battery Boosts were 200 Amp Solenoids….NOW…it appears that the White Rogers solenoid is the BOOST or Inerconnect solenoid.  Your cropped and blown up photos don’t show the PN.  Google it.  Then post a link or a screen shot of the spec sheets.  In essecnce, the Charging Controller is measuring the voltage on each bank.  As long as one needs a little juice….then it tells the “Relay” to close or energize the coil.  NOW….as stated…the Diesel and Diesel2 had some differences.  You can test this.  The 200 Amp solenoid that Jim described was typically a 200A ONLY INTERMITTENT….not continuous.  
    SO, if you fed it a full 12 VDC….it burned up the coil.  SO, Intellitec sent out a Pulsed or ON/OFF 12 VDC.  The duty or ON time was around 25 - 33%.  Therefore if you used a DVOM….it “looked” like a low voltage signal.  NOPE… but it measured about 3 - 4 VDC.  That lower pulsed version kept the coil happy.  
    BUT WAIT….what else does that Big Boy or Battery Connection or JUMPER switch do?  It is the Battery BOOST switch up front.  So it NEEDED a full 12 VDC.  But….read the manual.  Do not hold it on for too long.  Some “less than well informed” MH owners got the brilliant thought….I’ll put a Golf Tee under that spring loaded switch….I’ll have BIRD Charging.  YEAH RIGHT.  Maybe for a day or maybe longer…but then they burned out the COIL and fussed at the “life expectancy” of the solenoid.  MY Circuit….probably similar to yours.
    Time for MORE caffeine.  There is PROBABLY a Bosch relay.  Terminals 85 and 86 are positive and negative from the BOOST switch.  Push in that spring loaded switch….the relay coil is energized…..the. There is a FULL 12 VDC going to the “solenoid”.  From a relay standpoint…..terminal 30 is connected to terminal 87A when the relay is NOT powered or the coil is not energized.  BUT, energize the coil…..then terminal 30 goes to terminal 87.  Got all that?
    When the BIRD system is operationlas….the “relay” signal, probably pulsed, goes to terminal 87A…..then terminal 30 has power and goes to Jumper or BOOST solenoid….so all are charging….assumng AC (Gnerator acts the same as AC) or the engine is running.  NOW….OPPS….you need a BOOST.  Assuming there is enough power on the HOUSE side….as the up front switch gets the power (positive) from the HOUSE….then there is a power wire that goes back to coil.  The Bosch relay closes….and BINGO, there is FULL (non PULSED” 12 VDC going to terminal 87….and since 30 and 87 are “closed”…..then the 30 wire closes the jumper or boost….with a full 12 VDC.
    THAT is how it works,  then later on, it hit Monaco.  OMG….if we would use CHASSIS voltage (hot….not ignition switched), we would have FULL TIME BIRD charging….remember the module decided WHEN to engage based on the condition of BOTH Banks.
    NOW…you say that you have DUAL charging.  Simple.  No ignition on….no AC PLUGGED IN….NO GENNY ON.  Cover the solar or pull the charging wires.  IT GETS TRICKY…. Pull the positive on the house….after you turn OFF DISCONNECT….NOW measure to ground….each side of the solenoid. One is ZERO.  HOUSE.  The other is 12.7 or so….the Chassis….now you know.  Hook back up the house bank….turn on the disconnect….plug in to shore….you will see a higher voltage on the house.  13.1 to over 14.x. That means the house is charging….but the “ignition signal is or should be ZERO on the Diesel module (ignition off’.  That is normal. Unplug AC…..measure….still 12.7 or so on each side.  Now start the engine…wait 5 minutes or so.  Remeasure….should be 13.7 - 14.0 or so…chassis is chargine….voltage the SAME ON BOTH SIDES.
    Again….folks have different outlooks and different ways of accomplishing things,  if YOUR system is working as above….it is fine,  I have NO IDEA how soemone rewired it.  Likewise, you said the stsrting current was fine, with, as they should be, BOTH BANKS ON.  In my opinion….no need to make an emergency call to “Ghost Busters”.  It ain’t BROKE….  You may have one of the “gee, how’d we mess up”…many folks might…but they don’t have the “Victron”.  So nothing to alert them.
    If you could get enough 2002 owners to test…..how many OK’s vs “DAD GUM….it did start?”  NO IDEA…except Monaco acknowledged it happens…but not gonna fix as the WRONG STARTING PROTOCOL WAS USED.  That horse is hurting….but it seems to be reviving….
    NOW…..NEXT UP….to comment on Jim’s Blue Seas suggestion.  The cheap simple Blue Seas ACR works great.  It is reliable….it is robust….it has good tech supoort.  BUT…as always….understand the CONS.
    First….your up front Boost switch is now worthless.  ME, I would just say…OK.  If I needed a boost, get out….go to the ML-ACR…set it to manual…..after no longer needed….back to AUTO.  BUT of yow want a full “fledged” boost and remote control, then you run a 4 or 5 wire loom or cable from the ML-ACR and drive on.  I could.  I am happy the way my Intellitec BIRD works….I will not fix what ain’t broke.  But, we have a LOT of fans.  Now, if a solenoid or charging module goes bad….I make a Fix VS Replace financial decision and factor in the DIY labor….I have done way worse and way more complicated….I Just choose NOT TO DISCOVER AMERICA…again.
    One FINAL comment.  All it would take to give you a complete DUAL CHARGE or BIRD SYSTEM.  Pull the IGNITION wire.  Run a wire from the HOT Chassis Bank Stud….(you can use the chassis stud on the solenoid).  Hook it up to IGNITION.  You have the SAME system that Monaco started to install later on and the EXACT configuration as the 2008 Camelots and up.  
    Really Simple….but this rascal is so complex….that the simple change overwhelms some….and they are concerned….
    That’s it.  I’d run my test….charging, as it should…as wired….then it ain’t broke….want a REAL BIRD system….swap wires.  Good Luck….
  3. Tom Cherry's post in WAS BlueFire Diagnostics purchased by Microsoft? May have been Blue Fire Xbox video game?? INFO?? was marked as the answer   
    I don’t quite get the same interpretation as posted.  There is a lot of documentation on this if you google.  Your screen dump is a note about a past version not being supported.  MSFT often, much to my and other’s chagrin, updates “stuff”.  Their interface (MSFT) is going to be revised or upgraded.  Thus the support for the old 3X version will be phased out.  My take.  There is a newer version, provided by MSFT. It is “probably” more powerful and will allow many other app or software developers to utilize it. Thus….it is a really “great” upgrade.  BlueFire is not, as I read, owned by MSFT.  The “App Developer” used the 3X version which MSFT has to “allow” …..same as there is probably an equivalent Apple IOS “developer’s tool” (my layman’s definition is a specialized software program or interface.  These are used to make a system (digital) interface and work with various OS’s.
    NOW….doing a little more “sniffing”, BlueFire LLC is well aware, as they have to rewrite the “code” for the super gee whiz 4.X version.  If you google…..you’ll find this.
    Many times…..way to many to count, you get a “pop up” about some kinky little device that needs a “firmware” update….the BIOS on a PC is a classic example.  Used to to do this with a disk or a flash.  Finally, they figured out how to handle this “really tedious and dangerous” operation to happen seamlessly and it just….HAPPENS.  You get the standard warning……DO NOT POWER DOWN OR TURN OFF…. Which implies that the whole device (PC) will loose a critical part of the bootup sequence….and if one doesn’t follow the protocol…..you have just executed the system…
    Bottom line.  It APPEARS that BlueFire is on top of this.  The $10 is just to handle the shipping…..and they MUST reprogram it on a special device….now….do they throw it away and give you a new one or can their “electonic” monster kill the old firmware and then “reflash” or reprogram it…..and it is NOT possible to do that with a PC?  NO IDEA….
    BUT BF is updating the adapter so it will work with the new one.
    AS the old LOST IN SPACE line goes….”Danger! DANGER!! Will Robbins”.  As LONG as one doesn’t UPGRADE their Windows 10 and keeps the old “developers” software….which will no longer be supported (as in no more upgrades”…..then nothing needs to be done.  BUT, if you let one of them pesky “auto updates” get loaded…..and you get ver 4X….your old hardware adapter ain’t gonna work.
     
    MSFT does this…..all the time.  Apple does it.  My wife’s ATS had a NEAT interface…..you used iTunes and we saved over 3,000 songs to our HD.  Then you could make custom playlists and whatever and then “transfer” that to an older iPod.  Version 6….
    BUT….Apple kept upgrading the iTunes OS…..version 4 is now maybe version 12.  Eventually, the new iTunes could NOT download all of our music and playlists and categories and such….I finally stopped updating.
    THAT’s my layman’s take.  We have a lot of app and tech savvy folks that can explain or correct my simple overview…..
     

  4. Tom Cherry's post in CR-V - what is this connected to my negative battery post was marked as the answer   
    Ask….and ye shall receive.  There are all sorts of “thingies” that the car boys are putting on.  There is USUALLY a high current fuse on the positive.  I always carry a spare in every vehicle.
    NOW….this device is basically….a sophisticated “Battery temp sensor” with a “amp meter” probe….and a “bonus”….Voltage sensor. Critcial to the voltage regulation of your alternator…..it goes bad….you COOK your battery….
    You can google it and there is a LOT of info, some wrong…LOL, about it and what all it does….

  5. Tom Cherry's post in refrigerator question was marked as the answer   
    OK....again, this depends on the Referigerator.  BUT, the Norcold (all models) and the Dometics are the same.
    There is a set of Cooling (Condensing?) fins at the top.  This is a long rectangular "module".  Pipe in on one side and out on the other.  There are thin fins that are stacked along the entire rectangle.
    On the LEFT side...Dometic....maybe the same for Norcold, there is a small snap disk thermostat.  It is held in place by two small tapping screws.  There are TWO wires going to it.  It is the ON and OFF switch.  There SHOULD be 12 VDC coming in on one line....and the other goes through the thermostat switch....and to the fans.
    The fans are BURIED somewhere in the bowels or the flue underneath the cooling coils.  Norcold has TWO as do Dometic.
    These are small, very small, computer like fans.  They are 12 VDC. Many of us added supplemental exhaust fans to the roof vent....so when the thermostat kicks them on....they power 2 more...above....like an exhaust fan. 
    NOW... Norcold and Dometic designed the cooling system more towards "Advertising BOONDOCKING life" than actually efficient cooling.  IF you are NOT boondocking...the the MORE air (the more fans as well as more powerful), the better....
    NOW....there could be THREE ISSUES. 
    No power to the Thermostat.  Maybe a FUSE.  Maybe on the board.  You need to test the wires.  ONE will have power (when the Refrigerator is ON)
    Bad Thermostat - Norcold sells these....Amazon has them. Do NOT order a Dometic one.  The Norcold has a different temperature range.  It runs cooler or stays on MORE.  If you put in a Dometic, you will NOT have enough ON COOLING TIME.  I used a Norcold on my Dometic to improve the cooling.  THEY ALL ARE THE SAME Holes....
    Bad FANS.  God HELP YOU. You can SHORT the two wires together....assuming you have power.  If the fans run....GREAT.  If they don't and you have verified 12 VDC to one wire...then start digging and you will have, I think, to remove the Norcold.  YOU CAN, if you have a roof vent....put in TWO fans (make a simple frame.  Many have done it.  @Dr4Film did this on his Windsor.)  PM him for some details or get his phone and call him.
    That's it....
  6. Tom Cherry's post in Alternator output voltage was marked as the answer   
    OK....My comment...without looking or having your prints, the TRUE voltage that you should be, or that I would be measuring is the charging voltage to the batteries.  I would, with the engine running, measure the voltage on the Chassis Battery.  14.9 is typically a bit excessive.  Ordinarily, it will be in the 13.9/14.1 range....and that is a relative number watching my digital gage up front...which might me a bit off.
    BUT, the VOM reading on the battery while the engine is running would be by test....as that is coming directly from the Alternator.
    OK...a little more research...  CURIOSITY...I suspect that you have prints....  I pulled the 1999 Executive and we have them...but, they were scanned and hard to read unless you piece them together.  I DID look at the 2001....as well as the 1999.
    Your measurement point, the ALT terminal on the isolator should be, as you stated, directly from the Alternator.  Maybe a tad lower...but CLOSE...
    My THOUGHTS...  Your regulator is a bit funky. 14.9 is a bit high....should be a full volt lower.  The RULE of thumb here is to Rebuild, with OEM Leece Neville Parts....ordered directly from a LN Distributor.  Also put in NEW DIODES....regardless if the shop says..."Tests OK".
    NOW, there have been some successful conversions to other brands. @vanwill52 has posted a lot on the DUVAC conversion.  You can search.  USE duvac in the search box.  Then click on EVERYWHERE.  Choose Topics...  MANY different topics and scads of post our there.
    That's my take....  Find a good shop or DIY, but understand the circuitry and what you have to do make it work properly...
  7. Tom Cherry's post in Will increasing solar on roof decrease electric bill? was marked as the answer   
    Here’s my EX Industrial & Manufacturing & Facility Engineer’s analysis.  
    First, determine what load comes from the interior or Inverter and what load is from the “NON INVERTER” side.  Simple way to do this….Look at the billing cycle….  Do you have a meter on the Pedestal or somewhere that you can read daily?  You have to know the KWH for a given time frame.
    Next, temporarily wire in TWO KWH Meters.   You can purchase a KWH meter on Amazon.  You need to find one that is rated for 3 or so KWH….and it is 120 and NOT 220.  You have a Sub Panel.  There are two 30 Amp breakers.  Using #10 wire, you disconnect the incoming power from each 30 amp breaker.  Then you wire nut in an outlet or connect each one to the 30 Amp lines.  Then the “outputs” of each meter has to be connected to the 30 Amp breakers….  Now each side is feeding through the meter.  Now the meters are recording the KWH on each side.  Then you collect data for a specific time….at least a week.  You also collect the TOTAL KWH for your service.  
    Next up….subtract…. Probably the BULK is coming from the NON INVERTER side.  IF SO….you aren’t going to save anything.  You HAVE to have an inverter that can power many of the other loads like the Aquahot electric, the AC’s or HP.  Look at it this way.  You have 50 Amps of two leg power coming in.  That is roughly 100 Amps times 120 VAC or 12,000 watts or 12 KWH.  Your inverter is only rated for 2000 watts or 2 KWH.  Right now, when you are on shore, the inverter is “passing through” that 2 KWH.  In order for Solar to WORK….you would have to have a 12,000 watt inverter.  This is TOTALLY OFF THE GRID gear.
    Then….most folks put in a max of 1,000 watts of solar.  At your peak, you consume TWELVE TIMES THAT AMOUNT.  SO, additional banks of batteries.  
    Bottom LINE….Solar is designed for “powering”,  via your House Bank, the Inverter.  So, that allows you to BOONDOCK.  If you had a permanent pad and lot and put in an external solar farm, assuming you have NOT used your LIFETIME max solar credit, then you would be able go use the solar and sell it back to the Utility.  Lots of subsidized installations out there.  But the BULK of your usage is probably NON INVERTER….
    So, without a heavy cash outlay for a larger inverter and a larger battery bank, it is not economically feasible.  All the off grid and advertising is based on Government subsidies…..and even if you qualified, your solar farm would be limited to 1000 watts.  ODDS ARE, you probably average 5 - 6 KWH during the peak.  
    NO WAY…but if you want to measure ….then do it…but remember what goes through the Main Panel is 6 times what your inverter is capable of…..
  8. Tom Cherry's post in External TV won't go down was marked as the answer   
    The INTERNAL TV is controlled, I suspect, off a lighted switch panel. All your lighted switch keypads are part of the Intellitec Multiplex (MPX) system.  If you are not familiar with this, read up on it in section 8 of the manual.  Go to the search box in the upper right put in INTELLITEC in the search box. Click on EVERYWHERE and select FILES.  There is a file on it, maybe 2.  Read the one authored by Frank McElroy.  There are several items that could be the cause.
    HOWEVER…Since you have the CCM,  I don’t know if your Chassis Control system works it or if it is part of the Intellitec MPX.
    Also read section 9.  You need to identify whether there is a plain switch or the Intellitec MPX or the CCM….then start to troubleshoot 
    IF it is on the MPX, then, the first trick is to go to the door and find the Battery Cut Off Switch. Turn OFF the switch. I’d wait 5 minutes. That kills the power to the CPU that drives the MPX system. This is a programmable logic controller. The switch sends a multiplexed signal to the CPU. There are some “default” interlocks that must be made or satisfied.  If they are OK, THEN the down or lower switch will operate it and vice versa for raising.
    You need to go to the rear closet and find the switch diagram.  The TV switch, when operated, will result in the CPU sending a signal to one of the Intellitec modules. The diagram lists the ALPHA LETTER of the module as well as the NUMERIC circuit number. Find the module and locate the circuit.  There is a 10 Amp fuse on each circuit. If you push the RAISE SWITCH and the RAISE green light on that circuit number comes on….then the switch is signalling the CPU and the module is sending out an operating signal to the mechanism.  No GREEN LIGHT….  Problem in the switch or module….typically NOT in the CPU.
    That’s it.
  9. Tom Cherry's post in Which wiring diagram? was marked as the answer   
    I’d use the 2006.  There was a continuous evolution of wiring upgrades…primarily in how to charge the “chassis” while in storage.  The 05/06 years were the most “dubious” for the upper end (Dynasty and above)… as in that was a MAJOR change….but not for you…. Once that settled down the lower food chain models started to benefit.  For example, the 2008 was a total upgrade from the 05 - 07 Camelot/Scepter.
    You’re pretty safe with the 2006…it will be close….just don’t make the “gospel”.  You may (probably) have a prewired trailer brake system…but Monaco got it messed early in 2005.  As long as you aren’t working on that, then you’re close.  Our rule of thumb, from a Moderator’s use….one up and one below and then “start to home in”.
  10. Tom Cherry's post in Right turn signal issues (CCM Kongsberg) was marked as the answer   
    Common sense and a tiny dab of an anti corrosion compound applied to each male and female connector will enhance or improve conductivity and prevent future occurrence.  I had to salvage, in 2008, a 50 year old Square D 200A panel in a house that had been vacant for a few months and a leak occurred and the panel was wet on the inside. It never “tripped” but several breakers, on one side were wet.  I talked to a couple of electrical contractors and some experienced electricians.
    They all said the same thing.  TRY THIS FIRST. Obviously the leak had been corrected and all was dry.  The panel was in a basement or full height crawl space.
    Noalox was the name of the compound. Lowes used to sell it, but switched to Gardner Bender. It is a toothpaste or thick hand cream consistency compound. It is an anti oxidant that is designed to prevent corrosion or bi-metalism reaction between Cu and Al…used extensively for making connections between Cu & Al joints in manufactured housing where there is an abundance of Al wire and such. It also has a 40% (memory) or so “Aluminum” fines blended in. That improves the conductivity. Noalox says it can and is recommended for Cu joints as well. Amazon has another product with a high percentage of Cu fines blended in with an anti-corrosion “compound”.
    THE SAGE WARNING….use SPARINGLY.  Just a tiny dab on the spring clips of a breaker and the mating Cu buss on the panel. Snap into place.  Pop out, maybe reapply half of what you used the first time and then seat and unseat the connection a few times.
    NOW…this has worked on my umbilical TOAD cord as well. I purchased 0.17 or 17 Caliber bore cleaning brass brush.  Used a toothpick and barely coated the tip of the male connector and cleaned the female with the brush and put a dab inside.  Worked miracles. Mated and unmated them. I have, maybe every 5 years, put a small dab on each of the male and female connectors on the 50 - 30 A dogbone that is outside all the time when my rig is in storage.
    That’s my “Hint from Heloise” on removing corrosion and salvaging connectors… BTW, the breaker panel in the rental house, after 15 years, is fine and we never had any issues….
  11. Tom Cherry's post in 2007 Dynasty = Rear AC has NO Power. WHY? was marked as the answer   
    Frank beat me to the bell.  I was looking for the 2007 Sig Drawings.  The Sig has some "upgrades" specific to it.  BUT the basic drawing file is the same.  You just look for what is in yours....
    Next up...  The AES, assuming you have that...and that is probably a GOOD BET is wired with ONE. Read the MANUAL. IF you are running your Washer Dryer...you AIN'T gonna have any power to the AC. It was a COMPROMISE.  The AES unit has three pieces of Romex.  One is from the Main Panel Breaker...  then the OTHER two are "OUTPUTS" as LONG as there is NOT a "load" or power (Current) being used for the washer/dryer, then the AES gives the breaker power to the rear AC  BUT, turn ON the Washer/dryer or whatever and BINGO....it kills the rear AC.
    Here is the "probably" what you need.  The PN will be on the AES once you locate it...  
    Intellitec 00-00714-000 Auto Energy Selector Module
    https://www.amazon.com/Intellitec-00-00714-000-Energy-Selector-Module/dp/B00ODIQ2VQ/ref=asc_df_B00ODIQ2VQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312087868266&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15333576657778596311&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009731&hvtargid=pla-685119380112&psc=1&mcid=7a53c1da19103bc1896f4938f13dcd0b&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=58868507981&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312087868266&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15333576657778596311&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009731&hvtargid=pla-685119380112&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxOauBhCaARIsAEbUSQRKfcmPjjgrKC0AG5rDwPPgimNuyu-KCNhBHHiZKTMmay0a2b0xipsaAlfXEALw_wcB
    That should fix it...read up on it in the manual...and then find it. It is NOT difficult...you just label the wires...and then (POWER OFF and GENNY BREAKER -UP FRONT- OFF) change it out...take a picture and color code the Romex...
  12. Tom Cherry's post in Considered used HVAC rooftops from Visone. Going NEW. Help with best sources or places to buy new units appreciated. Thanks. was marked as the answer   
    Personally NADA. 
    There is no way to verify  the hours.  Most units eventually start to pull more starting amps.  Then it is either an expensive “Band-Aid” soft start change out or replacement.
    The units were originally configured for the now out of date CCC (original 5 button) thermostat.  No longer made by Dometic. Thus, if your thermostat dies, then replacement with an adtemwrket is the same as a NEW CCC2 which will work with the new CCC2 network.
    If the cost of the unit is more than 40% of a new Penguin II, I would not. The commercial or industry standard on used vs new is 50%…there is more risk here, so I lowered the bar…
    NOW, if you are fixing up a MH to sell, with NO WARRANTEE’s then maybe.  But you would recoup at least 60 - 75% of a BRAND NEW MODERN UP TO DATE HVAC if you were peddling the MH.
    Assume you are doing the work,..lf you are paying someone….case closed….buy NEW.
    That’s my take…..I plan to wait until one unit dies….put in whole new system…more reliable and increases the value and I get to enjoy it…
  13. Tom Cherry's post in Roadmaster S tie rod end bushings? was marked as the answer   
    Google Source Engineering or try Monaco RV Chassis.  Jim or Scott should know. They are the experts. Mor Josams in Orlando. Ask for Barry….he is the shop foreman and will help you
  14. Tom Cherry's post in Dometic CCC2 (new version) Thermostat Reset. How do you do it? was marked as the answer   
    First...  The CCM Chassis has NOTHING to do with the HVAC system. This is the SAME system used from the early 2000's
    Second...  You did NOT specify which AC you pulled.  That makes it a little tougher to tell you exactly HOW to do what you need to do.
    The FIRST step or trial.  Turn OFF the switch (the bottom one) on the Thermostat.  Then Hold in the TOP (mode) and BOTTOM (zone) buttons and the, while depressed, power on.  That should display an FF in the display momentarily....then go away.  Test for all FOUR zones.  Run through the ZONE control. You MAY not recall but the Zone 4 is for the heat in the middle and you will NOT see Zone 2 if you are in the FURNACE mode.  However, if you switch to AC or Heat Pump, then you see Zone 1, 2 and 3...
    In Furnace you see zones 1, 3 and 4. ODDS are you were in the Furnace Zone.
    Next up...if that did not work, then you have an error or a bad connection in the data cables.  The are the "phone lines".  If you were in the REAR or Bedroom unit and unplugged the cables, you need to go back and do some "replugging".  Look at the print.  Zone 3 Read AC has an incoming thermostat line....look at the Thermostat...see the Phone LINE solid line. 
    In the REAR unit there is an INCOMING cable or phone line from Zone 4.  The Roof Top (on a 15 K unit) has TWO cables "dangling down" and into the plenum. On your REAR AC, there is only ONE incoming data cable and NOT an outgoing cable. Either of the Roof Top cables can be plugged into that incoming data cable. If you did not label or got peroccupied...and then connected the TWO dangling or control cables from the roof top, you have LOST that zone.  
    Bottom line...identify the cables from the TOP.  Then plug EITHER one into the remaining third cable. Make sure that you plug securely. You might use a Q-tip and some rubbing alcohol and clean the contacts on the male and inside the female. These connection are notorious for NOT being POSITIVE. I actually carry spare female (the Dual Inline) connectors and if one would fail, I would just replace all of the ones in use. You should have TWO in the front AC and then TWO in the middle AC and then, TWO in zone 4. Unfortunately, that controller is hidden under or behind a panel and it is a PITA to find....but it is THERE.  There are TWO there....and then only ONE in the rear...as it is the END of the line
    That's it; you should have done a System Reset after you pulled the unit. ANYTIME you ever unplug a phone line....the whole system goes down or loses its Multiplexed data buss. You HAVE to reset to get it to work.
    BTW...most folks would tell you to STOP using the lower switch. These thermostats are obsolete and not longer in production and you can't find a new one. The preferred method is to leave the switch ON.  Then use the zone button and the turn off each zone via the MODE....go to OFF.
    This should fix it...
    AquaHot Schematic - 2009 Dynasty and up...probably 2008 also.pdf
  15. Tom Cherry's post in Going HIGH TECH….2007 Dynasty. New Inverter Charger and Lithiums and such. Questions??” and Help Needed. was marked as the answer   
    WHOA FOLKS….  This ain’t your Granddaddy’s Oldsmobile….LOL
    FIRST….do some research.  The BOOST switch is for the BIRD SYSTEM.  The Magnum Inverter is in no way connected, controlled or interactive with the “BOOST” function.  However, you need to fully understand the electronics and the complexity of the systems….especially on a later model Dynasty….thus the “Oldsmobile” punch line….
    John, 
    You best download the prints.  Your system is NOT the simple “Plain Jane” that most have.  You have an Intelliec controlled front and rear bay.  Chocked full of custom boards with MFSTS MOSFET’s. I am not an expert….but these proprietary boards that are no longer available.
    There “may be” a Lithium Big Boy, but I am not aware of one for the Intellitec BIRD system. BIRD is the acronym for Bi-Directional Charging.  There is a 200 A Big Boy solenoid controlled by a board in the rear….basically. the ON or OFF of this solenoid.  It is NOT a Continuous Duty Solenoid. There is a #6 (Memory) Special, discontinued, control board.  This board serves two purposes.  It Monitors the House and Chassis circuits. When there is AC or DC charging current available, it then closes the Big Boy. BUT it sends out a “pulsed” signal.  Lets say it pulses, say 50 times per second. Then that 20 Millisecond pulse turns OFF then ON. The “width” or the time ON is about 13 milliseconds. That is about 60%…or 12 milliseconds,  So, the Big Boy gets the equivalent of an 8 or 9 VDC signal. IF the pulse was 100% or just “wired” direct, the Big Boy’s coil would short out from overheating.  
    Now, about the BOOST.. The signal from the boost switch is a NEGATIVE ground.  That then is fed into this board.  When you press it….it sends a 100% ON signal (NOT PULSED) and the Big Boy is closed.  Leave it pushed IN (some folks have been told by “experts” to wedge a golf T under it for FULL TIME BIRD….a costly piece of advice from unknowing folks,,,,that read it somewhere…) or ON for more than say 30 seconds starts to overheat the coil.
    I really don’t remember, but I am SURE there has been, a Lithium conversion for the 2006 Dynasty and up electronics.  They are day and night different from the more conventional BIRD systems used on the lower food chains. Monaco used the PLAIN BIRD systems circa 2005 on them.  Kept upgrading but the technology is basically the same through the years that Navastar owned them. My Camelot has a BIG BOY, but it has a control module that is still available.
    We have TWO experts on the Intellitec systems….and each can rebuild, usually, many of the 20 or so odd boards used in the front and rear run bays.
    If I had a Dynasty, I would NOT DESTROY the system. I would just “leave it alone”.  A future owner might not be impressed with Lithium or need to replace batteries and “gasp” at the price.  
    There are TWO small control wires on the Main House and Chassis Disconnect switches.  DISCONNECT both the small wires and insulate them with tape. Polarity is NOT an issue….do that on BOTH switches.  THEN the BIRD system has been, PROPERLY deactivated.
    Next…read or get help here and install the Blue Seas ML-ACR. Your MH is now “OLD” technology….and that is the CHEAPEST way. Find out what others are doing.  Blue Seas will assist as to how to Handle Lithiums. There is a simple ON/OFF/AUTO switch on the basic unit.  Your front boost switch is intact, but disconnected or non functional when you killed the BIRD Control circuit. When you need a “boost” function….get out….walk…..open the RRB. Turn the BOOST ON….
    The Lithium gang will advise you how they keep the ML-ACR set and what other mods or components are needed.
    Good luck….
     
  16. Tom Cherry's post in HI-AMP Buss 120A tripped was marked as the answer   
    Thanks for the explanation.  I will surmise this
    The Generator was unhappy due to the AC load and not being properly warmed up. It should be FINE.  
    Had to download the prints.  Here is what you need.....
    It appears that something, NO IDEA WHAT, tripped the Breaker. It is for the HOUSE circuit.  The Genny and the alternator are NOT an issue... That 120 Amp breaker eventually feeds the Front House Solenoid and it has a 50A breaker on it....so do idea on that end.
    If you look at the Hight Current Print, which is the rear.
    The House Disconnect Switch feeds it.  Then there is a 2Ga cable to a T-Post.  The Jack Motor and Front T Post (where the Solenoid is) and a BUSS in the back. The buss has two Circuits...  NO IDEA what TRIPPED it.  The Generator or Starting cables, elude me....  SO, I can't do much there.
    I WILL say that if you have an issue again, I would replace the 120 High Current.  NO IDEA...except something spiked. 
    You MIGHT also be in need of new House and Chassis Disconnect Switches. They do have issues.
    I had a phantom like this and it repeatedly blew a 200 Amp fuse....and finally found a Hydraulic motor that was drawing WAY too much current.
    That's about as much as I know or can speculate 
    2004 Ambassador_Knight Wiring (1).pdf 2004 Diplomat and others - High Current Rear Run Bay.pdf 2004 Diplomat and others - Overall High Current Power.pdf
  17. Tom Cherry's post in No wires to 7 pin socket on back of Safari Cheetah was marked as the answer   
    OK…. Need to clarify your request.  The 7 pin layout posted is the “MONACO” STANDARD.  We don’t have access to a copy of your manual.  Look in your manual.  I think it will be section 9.  Whichever section is labeled as “CHASSIS ELECTRICAL”.  
    You CANNOT wire up a TOAD with a 5 wire (park, left turn, right turn, STOP & Ground) system or NEED. without adding a conversion device.
    Download and printout the pictures of the harness end. This is what you have.
    https://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdf/85-5501.pdf
    You have to wire the Ground and “Charging” pins directly to the TOAD.  Purchase a 20A “RESTTING or AUTO RESET” circuit breaker for the 12 VDC charging to protect your battery.  
    I have tried to find a FOUR WIRE to FIVE WIRE Trailer conversion module.  That is an ABNORMAL unit.  All you see is units that were designed to adapt a 5 wire system like you have on your TOAD and be able to tow a 4 wire trailer.  Your Monaco is the ORIGINAL 4 wire system.
    Look at the picture on page 3.  The BOTTOM one is how MOST PEOPLE wire us a 5 wire (ground, LT, RT, Park, STOP) vehicle.  You will need 4 diodes from Roadmaster and a 25 foot “trailer wiring” or 4 wires from the front to the rear. ACTUALLY, you can run only 3 wires, but MOST will run 4 so  there is a GOOD Ground.
    You run the MH LT and RT to the Tail/Stop light wires. You run the Parking light wire to the OTHER filament of that bulb.  ODDS ARE…there is a 3 wire harness going to the bulb’s socket. You may have to remove the taillight or find the socket (that has the bulb in it) and remove or twist and remove from the housing.  This is what you do to replace a burned out bulb.
    Use a VOM on continuity (ohms) and probe the back of the socket where there is a bare wire and find the Ground.  Next…then turn on the parking lights and find that signal using the meter on 12 VDC.  So NOW you know which wire is which.
    You will need a Ratcheting Crimper (kit or bag of terminals) from Amazon.  This is the EASIEST for someone that might not be proficient at a “squeeze” crimper….also easier on the hands. $30 or so…buy the top rated one.  I would also get a pack of BLUE 3M ScotchLok connectors….Lowes has them. Actually the Roadmaster comes with female connectors….I just like spares and you keep the crimper in the MH as you, WILL, need it sometime….trust me…
    NOW you go back abbojt 4 - 6” from the socket….maybe more as you are splicing in a diode on each wire and you need to be able to plug back in the socket to,the housing.  CUT the Parking Light wire.  On the bulb side…crimp a female connector on and it goes to the single one….read the label. Then the MH wire (STOP/TURN) wire gets a terminal.  It don’t matter which of the other two. Finally, put a connextor on the TOAD wire and hookup.  That’s it.
    YOU DO NOT MESS with or cut or wire into the AMBER TURN SIGNAL BULB…..
    NOW….some folks do NOT understand.  You MUST USE THE DIODES….otherwise, the MH will run or backfeed voltage and POTENTIALLY damage the electronics in the TOAD.  Maybe not, but WHY RISK IT?? 
    OR….buy the Magnetic Light Kit and put two lights on the top or the trunk….just make sure it is NOT aluminum or plastic, like my Vette.
    That’s it.  
    Good luck
     
     
     
  18. Tom Cherry's post in 07 Monaco Sig - Communications problem with HVAC Control module. was marked as the answer   
    The covers that I meant were whatever covers the air filters on each individual unit, not the “ROOFTOP” covers.  Sorry for not being clear and misleading you.  The communication cables are accessible from the inside and in the plenum.  So, whatever you take off or remove to install or wash the filters, that “cover” needs to come off.. You will find the connections behind the filter, up in the plenum.
  19. Tom Cherry's post in Is my Aqua Hot malfunctioning or my wall thermostat? was marked as the answer   
    Lets put it another way.  Look at your Aquahot Plate Data. I have the AHE450, which was used on the "LOWER FOOD CHAIN" MH's, not the Dynasty.
    AC or Electric element specifications....  15Amps = 1,650 Watts = 5,630 BTU per HOUR....
    Diesel Burner Specifications =                                                         56,000 BTU PER HOUR...
    Basically, the diesel burner has TEN (10) TIMES the heat output as the Electric.  The Electric is OK, in MOST cases, for domestic HOT WATER.  BUT, your Heat Pumps will put out MORE heat that the Electric will. SO, when your Heat Pumps are NOT adequate to keep the MH comfortable and your NEED more HEAT, you MUST TURN ON THE DIESEL and run the Aquahot (FURNACE).
    That's how it works.... 
    NOW, your's may be different...but the Electric has been 15 Amps or 1,650 Watts for a LONG TIME.  Your Diesel burner may also different....but most likely it is in the same ball park....and will be in the 56,000 range.  This is straight from the Specifications page of the Owner's Manual, around Page 2....check your manual or look at the Plate on the Aquahot....
    BTW....so you don't worry about draining your Diesel Tank.  A Gallon of Diesel fuel is 138,700 BTU's.... The Burner (mine above) is rated at 56,000 BTU/Hour.  So, divide 56,000 by 138,700.....that is  0.40 Gallons PER HOUR....  You did not list your Length so you may have 2 HVAC's and an 8KW Onan....at 50% load, the Genny consumes 0.43 GPH....the 10KW, ironically is the SAME...0.43.  SO, you are consuming the same fuel for the Aquahot as your Genny...assuming a 50% Load...
    EDIT....Based on Ivan's response....mine, or at least the LOW ENDS have the SAME THERMOSTAT....so when the temperature of the "BOILER" drops below the set point and BOTH switches (Diesel and Electric) are ON...  THEN BOTH the Electric element and the Diesel Burner will come on.  BUT at a 10:1 ratio....guess who carries the load. You CAN only turn on the Diesel at night...which many of us do. BUT, obviously if you are only on 30 Amp service, then you may have issues as you do NOT have a LOT of power.  Remember....on a 50 Amp Service, you have Line 1 and Line 2 for a TOTAL of 100 Amps of electricity...but the 30 AMP is only ONE LINE....the Dogbone splits it...so you have 3.3 TIMES the current on 50 Amp than you do on 30...  The OLDER AH's used to have two different thermostats (electric and Diesel and the Electric was lower...so it had the "opportunity", if the demand was low...to heat up the boiler without the Diesel firing.  That was dropped....don't know when, but the 2009 units like mine us the SAME Thermostat...  WHICHEVER or BOTH are on....that heat source is activated. Thanks to Ivan for a good point.
    Hope this helps...
  20. Tom Cherry's post in Tires 295/80’s or 295/75’s was marked as the answer   
    I was able to find TWO new Toyo's in California as well as in the Reno & Tahoe area.  Schwab had them.  We have had folks that have had to have tires replaced in all sorts of conditions. The 295/80 is WAY MORE EASY TO FIND.  NOW, if you call a Truck Stop.  NOPE....them puppies are hard to git....as in we sell OTR Truck Tires.
    BUT, if you start using the web and find authorized dealers for tires, you can chase down dealers.  I have three dealers, maybe 4 in the Raleigh area that were Toyo dealers.
    NOW, if you worry about replacement....then Bridgestone and Michelin would be the brand...  BUT, again, many folks have switched.  I would NOT run a different brand, even in the same size, on the rear....much less the front.  Tires are out there....Or I could be scared to drive my wife's ATS or my C7 Vette...as we have run flats and they are like "scarce as hen's teeth", but we have never had any issues.
     
  21. Tom Cherry's post in 2006 Executive - Correct House Batteries? was marked as the answer   
    BEN.....YOU WIN.  BUT, what was the VOLTAGE?  ZERO OF COURSE.  GOOD FIND.  I relied on Doug's comments about them....
    BUT, here is UGLY STEP CHILD....they ain't DEEP CYLE and THEY AIN'T HOOKED UP TO NOTHING.  Someone failed basic EE201 Elementary DC Circuits...
    Good eyes....  Thanks...
  22. Tom Cherry's post in 2005 Dynasty Entry door air seal release question. was marked as the answer   
    Monaco was inconsistent or perhaps, decided to revise or change the control circuits on our MH, from year to year.  This topic has been discussed since I first joined in 2009.  As the electronics got more sophisticated, then the circuits were changed.
    On some, the air seal is activated from a speed sensor in the tranny or maybe through the ECM.  Same for deactivating.  Read your manual. It may tell you what controls it.  NOW, the prints may also show the circuit and the inputs….no guarantees.
    Basically, there is a small air regulator that reduces the MH’s air pressure down to around 4 or 5 PSI.  When you put the MH in gear, there is a signal sent to a solenoid….some have said, MAC Valve.  That solenoid opens.  The low air pressure keeps the door seal inflated and cuts down on wind noise and also “flexes” as the MH “chugs and vibrates” down the highway.  When you slow down, below a certain speed, or stop and engage the parking break, the solenoid is supposed to close and also vent off the low air pressure.
    I can’t tell you the exact sequence…even the old time Monaco techs couldn’t find it in their prints as it was somewhere, maybe in the interaction of the tranny or the ECM.  Bottom line….unless you have a precision gauge, never mess with the regulator.  If this issue is now a recent occurrence, odds are, the solenoid may have trash or the spring and vent system is sluggish.  A clever owner once figured out how to test and verify.
    In the OLDEN days when we hot rodders messed with cars, we had a “vacuum” gauge….still got mine.  It also doubled as a “fuel pressure” gauge for the medhanical fuel pumps used on carvureted cars.  Really low pressure.  You can still buy them.  He out a “T” fitting on the door seal.  He ran an airline up and to the front cap’s windshield.  He duct taped the gauge to the front of the windshield.  Then he started the engine and played with various things like releasing the parking brake and then outting in gear or then watching the speedometer.  Conversely, he did the same when he slowed down and stopped.  He was more curious….and wanted to make sure the seal was workimg and when it inflated and deflated.
    You can, with a little effort and minimal cost do the same. Look at the two screen shots below.  The $20 kit has all you need except a longer piece of hose.  The “fuel pressure” scale goes to 10 PSI….and it matters not liquid fuel or air.
    whatever the sequence is to “inflate” will be the reverse for deflating.  Make sure you get a good signal to the valve.  You can add a test light to the wires to the solenoid and tape it on the windshield…..
    Other Dynasty owners, but BE CAREFUL, they need to be the same year….probably an Imperial or higher can chime in.  But, don’t bet the farm on a 2004 or 2006.  Monaco changed…and there was little internal documentation….maybe in your manual….
     
     


  23. Tom Cherry's post in 2003 Windsor Chassis Maintainer maybe NOT working? Hamsar Relay Swap? How to test and troubleshoot maintainer and/or relays? was marked as the answer   
    Russell, Your PICTURE shows a WHITE wire hooked up to the NEGATIVE Terminal.  ODDS ARE, that it is a GROUND.  BUT, easy to test with your VOM.  The "GROUND" or Negative wire that Jerome posted was a POSITIVE...as in, it was wired, incorrectly.  Easy test for you to do.  
    If you did a SEARCH for the LAMBERT (which is what, according to the images online), I think you have....then used TOPICS in the Everywhere drop down menu, then here is what we have. Richard (Dr4Film) posted the manuals...which tell you how to test.
    Your Lambert is wired correctly.  NOW, is it DEAD?  Maybe...Probably...as they were good, but not 100% and many have replaced them.  There is a LOT of units out there....if you want the THIEF style that steals voltage...
    Amp-L-Start gets good reviews and folks here like it.  There may be others that work as well...some different brands...on Amazon.
    OPPS...  Amp-L-Start appears to be "unavailable.... scroll down....the one man company is now a "NO MAN - RIP" company...
    https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/116417/
    https://www.bestconverter.com/AMP-L-START_c_211.html#:~:text=HOW IT WORKS - Connected between,your engine starting batteries charged.
    Bottom line...  Your Windsor came with a circuit to make it work.  It did work.  NOW, the way to troubleshoot is to run the tests.  I would do that...a whole lot easier than doing the testing on the relays.  IF it checks out....then on to the "Hamsar" tests...which are bit more complicated.
    However...  SOME of the Thieves on Amazon may work...as long as they are the same "KNOCK OFF" as the original Lambert.
    NOW, many folks have just "had it" with 120 VAC Maintainers or the THIEVES ... and gone to directly to a REAL BiRD or Bi-Directional charging system.  Blue Seas makes the ML-ACR.  You can use that in the Search.  MANY topics, with instructions...and hardly a member who regrets the upgrade. In your case, my preference would be the SIMPLE one...  No FRILLS.  You replace the Boost Solenoid that you have.  There is a switch or button for Auto, Manual (ON) or OFF.  Most don't opt for running a 5 wire bundle up front.  When they need, if ever, a BOOST....they walk back....switch to Manual (ON) and do their trick....then back to Auto..  That will keep your Chassis Charged when driving.  
    The "Thieves" like your Lambert steal power from the House....to keep the Chassis charged.  BUT, the Amp-L-Start, I think, had better safeguards than the Lambert....based on what I remember when I talked to some folks...it has been so LONG ago...I did spend time talking to whom I thought was the original "Lambert" or maybe the recently deceased Amp-L-Start owner.  BUT, when you get below a certain point....then the HOUSE will not or can NOT give voltage.  SO....if you store with POWER, then the ML-ACR is the nuts....it keeps both banks up.
    Hope this helps...wish it was simple...as in "change this wire".  A quick test....is the white wire a GROUND...will tell you.  THEN...start with the Lambert protocols...
    Keep up informed.
  24. Tom Cherry's post in 10Kw generator operating questions - 2009 Camelot was marked as the answer   
    Reread my post.  All 10/12/maybe 12.5 KW gennies are 240 VAC.  THEY HAVE BRUSHES.  The lower ends, 8.0 & 7.5 KW do NOT have a “brush” system.  Therefore the “lets clean the brushes drill” is NOT necessary.  However, we have had folks that read a “generic” comment and thought, mistakenly, that the 120 VAC 7.5/8.0 needed “exercising”.
    That is why a “generic” comment….made for a rig that is not the same as “yours” can be misleading or misunderstood.
    The other generic comments about starting with no load….then waiting….then disconnecting the load and letting the genny run to cool down is necessary on any ONAN Quiet Diesel….or, in reality….any generator,…I practice this religiously on my home standby portable generator.
    Hope that clears it up.
  25. Tom Cherry's post in Swapping front and rear original Penguin ac's? was marked as the answer   
    YES…..if BOTH are 15 KW or 13.5 KW….but if not, and they are different….still of course….you just have to do some rewiring…..and move a bunch of wires….  LOL.
    BUT, if you swap then, then you WILL NEED to reprogram the DIP switches on each.  The settings on the front have only ONE Dip, I’m betting, ON.  That makes it ZONE 1.  The FURNACE dip is most likely ON.
    Now the rear will have the Zone 2 Dip on.  This assumes you have ONE thermostat.  If you have a “FURNACE Mode when the REAR Zone 2 is selected…..you have a fwo zone furnace.   So, the Furnace DIP will be ON.  No furnace MODE….then DIP off.  They DIPS must be set so that the swapped unit is the dame as the one pulled out,  you also have to do the 5 button reset…..otherwise the Thermostat is “not in the mood to work”.  The procedure is Bottom switch OFF.  Hold in MODE and ZONE.  Turn on SWITCH.  Should be FF….good to go.
    NOW…..there may be a reason why you say “stronger”.  MOST Monaco’s have dual duct runs.   One on each side.  USUALLY if you have a shower on an outside wall, on a 40 ft or shorter, the duct on the side of the shower is cut and blocked.  The OTHER duct runs full length.  So, when both are on….they kick out MORE air on the full, front to rear, and connected duct.  But the cut duct gets air from the rear….and on the other side….air from the front.  That confuses folks.  It also has a great deal to do if you have throttled down some registers or outlets.
    BTW.  Most folks NEVER use the ON OFF switch.  It wears out,   They use the MODE setting….and toggle to OFF.  There is not a NEW 5 button, only used or “I think we fixed this one….and it is REFURBISHED”.  Just a tip….
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