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Ohhh that's why!??


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So randomly middle air-conditioner shut off. I'm guessing this was rewired so the previous owner could use washer dryer and middle ac at the same time? 

Making the switch in the kitchen useless. 

 

20220505_131040.jpg

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It looks to me like the third Center AC was moved from a shared power supply with the Washer/Dryer to its own power supply by using the 15-amp Block Heater supply.

That leaves the Washer/Dryer on its own 20-amp power supply.

Not a bad idea especially since the Block Heater in the engine compartment seldom gets used for anything. Well at least mine doesn't.

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Are the circuit breakers kicking off, or the EMS system shutting it down. On my Diplomat, I have two AC's. If the power drops, or if I am running too much electrical stuff, the rear AC is the first thing my EMS shuts down.

 

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Posted (edited)

I highly doubt if a 2000 Monaco Signature has an Intellitec EMS System installed. Not that it's impossible but the higher end coaches never seem to have them coming from the factory. But it's possible to wire one in as Bill Groves (RIP) did to his Dynasty.

Is it possible that the 15 amp Circuit Breaker is reaching its maximum amperage and tripping?

Edited by Dr4Film
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32 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

 

Is it possible that the 15 amp Circuit Breaker is reaching its maximum amperage and tripping?

That's my vote, my AC's pull over 15 amps each.  

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If indeed that is true, then it is an easy swap from a 15-amp CB to a 20-amp CB. They certainly didn't vary the gauge of the wiring within the coach depending on whether the circuit was a 15-amp or 20-amp draw. I am guessing that all of the 120 VAC wire inside the coach is all the same gauge.

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Yes that 15 amp breaker was popped, I'm sure at its peak it's pulling over 15amps. I agree the wire gauge is all the same size. 

Honestly was kinda happy when i found this. It has never tripped b4 but I had a lot running making sure everything was working for the season.  

So should I move it back or just but a 20 amp breaker in the slot? Either way is fine and would be nice to have the 3rd ac separated from everything. 

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If you can confirm the wire is 12 awg, which will carry 20 amp, you may consider buying/installing a larger breaker. 

That or just swap it back to where  the block heater is connected.  My block heater is on a 15 amp GFCI breaker.  I've never used it. 

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12 minutes ago, Romeo84 said:

Yes that 15 amp breaker was popped, I'm sure at its peak it's pulling over 15amps. I agree the wire gauge is all the same size. 

Honestly was kinda happy when i found this. It has never tripped b4 but I had a lot running making sure everything was working for the season.  

So should I move it back or just but a 20 amp breaker in the slot? Either way is fine and would be nice to have the 3rd ac separated from everything. 

I agree with the other posters.  Disconnect all power from shore and cover, using a quilt or blanket the solar panel, if you have one.  Trip off the generator breaker.  That kills all the potential voltage sources to the main breaker.  Pull off the cover plate and disconnect the black wire going to former 15 amp block heater.  Have a replacement Square D 20 amp breaker on hand and swap out the breaker.  Theses snap in and out. There are many YouTube videos out there on how to “snap in and out” a circuit breaker.  There is not any real electrical hazard or issue here.  Wiring to the block heater GFCI is probably #12 and you have downstream protection as the block heater receptacle is a 15 A GFCI.

While you are in the panel, tighten every screw or terminal that is in there including the main Breaker incoming.  This would also be a good time to pull the cover off the ATS ( auto transfer switch) and tighten the terminals there.

You will be good to go.

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Posted (edited)

Be careful to understand that a GFCI doesn't provide overcurrent, arc, or fault protection. A GFCI only senses an unbalance in current flow due to a path to ground.  The 15/20 A designation is the manufacturers non-continuous load rating. 

Edited by Gary Cole
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20 minutes ago, Gary Cole said:

Be careful to understand that a GFCI doesn't provide overcurrent, arc, or fault protection. A GFCI only senses an unbalance in current flow due to a path to ground.  The 15/20 A designation is the manufacturers non-continuous load rating. 

Understood, but with that being said if wire gauge is the same. All should be good upgradeing to a 20amp correct?

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Given that the original owner essentially added the 3rd AC as an independent circuit, wouldn't the block heater outlet be disconnected? You would only need to upgrade the GFCI to 20A if he wired the AC to the outlet at the outlet. He didn't do that as It would not have required a change in the main panel (and it would have been a bear to route the 120 line to the AC. I would check the panel for a disconnected 14 awg line. I suspect it is for the block heater and the line attached to the 15A breaker marked 3AC is going to be 12Awg. As it would have been removed from the "switch in the kitchen". But all of this can be verified.

1 does the block heater outlet have power.

2 what size wire is going from the breaker to ac3.

Not sure, but you may be old enough that you can't use the wire jacket color to tell the gauge.

Hope this helps

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So I went and looked at my breaker panel since we have the same coach and noticed that my double breaker has been moved up one position. Not just the wires but the whole breaker positions were switched between the two lower breakers in the past as the label with hand written arrows indicates. No function of the AC/WD switcher relay is chaged either, I know that for fact. The only reason I can see for that, is to move the 3rd AC to Line 2, the same line as AC #1. Why, not sure but maybe to run both rear and center units at night with load balanced on both lines which might be better for the generator. My generator was used a lot by the first owner. Good enough explanation to me...  maybe yours had similar reasoning because just moving the leads between breakers should have no effect on the AC/WD switching, the wire from the breaker goes to the switcher first and that's where the decision is made. The kitchen switch is only a 12v remote.

IMG_20220506_201912713.jpg

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As a load balance question, I wonder what the other subpanel has for the microwave/oven - on leg 1 or 2? Or if an electric stove top replaced a gas one and comes into play from that other inverter subpanel on which leg?

In my specific case, I added a 20A single pole double throw switch and changed one breaker into  dual 20A so I could "dynamically" move one A/C from one leg to the other (throw correct breaker and toggle) for load balancing.  I.e. so when it was hot and all three A/Cs were in heavy use and something is baking in the  convection oven that I could achieve a better 50-50 load rather than 2 A/Cs and oven on the same leg drawing 44-46A and the other leg 16-17A.   Other load situations I consider are bulk charging the bats with heavy A/C use.

BTW, I kept the factory intellitec load share setup for an A/C and the washer.  However the idea of rewiring that such that the 20A line goes only to the A/C and taking the 15a block heat line to the intellitec box to power the washer and then back to the block heat outlet is interesting especially since the wirings near the rear closet/washer-dryer stack (not combo)/ and engine bay block heat are in fairly close proximity back there.  That might make me and DW happier when she's doing a bunch of laundry on a hot day when that one A/C might be shed because the washer is simply on.   The washer would be happy on a 15a line - I've never seen it draw anything near that even on a fast spin start up.  I have no "kitchen switch", is that a manual version of the intellitec box I have behind my washer?

Anyway, good food for thought.

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5 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

As a load balance question, I wonder what the other subpanel has for the microwave/oven - on leg 1 or 2? Or if an electric stove top replaced a gas one and comes into play from that other inverter subpanel on which leg?

In my specific case, I added a 20A single pole double throw switch and changed one breaker into  dual 20A so I could "dynamically" move one A/C from one leg to the other (throw correct breaker and toggle) for load balancing.  I.e. so when it was hot and all three A/Cs were in heavy use and something is baking in the  convection oven that I could achieve a better 50-50 load rather than 2 A/Cs and oven on the same leg drawing 44-46A and the other leg 16-17A.   Other load situations I consider are bulk charging the bats with heavy A/C use.

BTW, I kept the factory intellitec load share setup for an A/C and the washer.  However the idea of rewiring that such that the 20A line goes only to the A/C and taking the 15a block heat line to the intellitec box to power the washer and then back to the block heat outlet is interesting especially since the wirings near the rear closet/washer-dryer stack (not combo)/ and engine bay block heat are in fairly close proximity back there.  That might make me and DW happier when she's doing a bunch of laundry on a hot day when that one A/C might be shed because the washer is simply on.   The washer would be happy on a 15a line - I've never seen it draw anything near that even on a fast spin start up.  I have no "kitchen switch", is that a manual version of the intellitec box I have behind my washer?

Anyway, good food for thought.

Yeah, I would imagine the 'kitchen switch' as a manual version of yours. Simple. 

Here is the inverted power breaker arrangement you asked about.

IMG_20220506_202529715.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Ivan, it would appear the factory would have had two A/Cs, Washer, Microwave/oven, and Aqua Hot all on one leg along with the kitchen plugs, etc...  IMHO not well balanced.

Edited by amphi_sc
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5 minutes ago, amphi_sc said:

Ivan, it would appear the factory would have had two A/Cs, Washer, Microwave/oven, and Aqua Hot all on one leg along with the kitchen plugs, etc...  IMHO not well balanced.

Al, you are right. Good point. I forgot that the AH element would also be on for just hot water 🙂Wonder if there was some knowledge sharing between the owners back then or if they just individually decided on moving the loads around because of problems. I did not think my coaches original owner was very technically oriented but who knows. Works for me the way it is now.

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3 minutes ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

All depends on how your inverter is wired.  Dual in, dual out;  single in, dual out;  single in, single out.  All depends on year, make, and model of coach.  Check your inverter manual for wiring diagrams.  

Looking at the three posted pictures of main and subpanel, I see inverter L1 and Inverter L2  on the main to the inverter, and on the sub panel inverter L1 and Inverter L2 from the inverter....all with 30 amp single breakers perhaps for a MS2812.

Agreed, your mileage may vary, but was thinking specifically about pics in this thread.

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