Front slide motor

[jacwjames]

I pulled both my slides in last week without a problem to move the coach ~5' to access the engine bay and remove the tow bar.

This AM I needed to get to the bedroom closet and the slide was dead, same with the front.  Checked the 5 amp fuse in the slide control module and it was blown.  This has happened in the past so I tried to put a new fuse in and it blew.   So I had a bigger problem.

I removed the slide control module and took and tested on my generator slide which uses the same module.  It worked so that ruled out module.

I unplugged both motors, front was easy but the bedroom slidemotor is accessible when you lift the bed and remove a cover and then had a heck of a time reaching the connector for the motor with the slide in.  So not knowing what I was going to get into I moved the small slide out using a battery charger and short jumpers. 

Put a new fuse in the control module and it held.  Plugged the front slide motor back in and the fuse blew.  Unplugged again

Put a new fuse in and plugged in the bedroom slide motor and tested and it worked.

So this isolated the problem to the front slide.  I ohmed the motor and it tested "0" ohms, so it appears the motor is shorted.   Is this a correct assumption????

I actually have a spare motor/gear box so I'll swap tomorrow. 

[RBRODDER]

"0" ohms would be an open, not a short. Which a open circuit would not blow a fuze? I would start looking for a shorted wire feeding the motor.

[Harold]

Actually '0' ohms is a short, as there is no resistance and infinite current can flow.  Infinite resistance is an open circuit and no current will flow.

[jacwjames]

25 minutes ago, Harold said:

Actually '0' ohms is a short, as there is no resistance and infinite current can flow.  Infinite resistance is an open circuit and no current will flow.

That was what I was thinking but wanted confirmation. 

I actually have a spare motor and it shows about 3 ohms, this is an older motor and don't know what it should read.

If I do have a wiring problem it's going to be a bear to track down.  The wires going the switch are relatively small, it has 3 wires.  There are 2 larger wires going to the motor.  So somewhere within the bowels of my coach is a reversing relay that sends the power to the slide motor. 

Does anyone know where this relay may be if I have to try and trace it down.  Right now the two larger wires go into the wall of the basement slide, I assume they go up into the space between the chassis rails, not sure where the power for the slide motor comes from.  The slide controller is my passenger side rear run bay, there is one large wire feeding the board but the rest of the wires are smaller. 

[Tom Wallis]

If the motor shows 0 ohms (shorted) I would look no further. 3 ohms sounds about right for a good motor, it would draw about 4 amps when operating. You'll have to replace the motor anyway. Do that first and see if it works.

[Rikadoo]

So just to be sure just plug the new motor in w/o mounting it, cycle the switch an see what gives. Seems kinda strange it just died like that, espessally if it gave no indication before hand… i would be concerned you may have a stuck relay, i know you would have to have a power relay so if the engine is running the slides cannot be operated, not sure it would be the same one

[jacwjames]

Just now, Rikadoo said:

So just to be sure just plug the new motor in w/o mounting it, cycle the switch an see what gives. Seems kinda strange it just died like that, espessally if it gave no indication before hand… i would be concerned you may have a stuck relay, i know you would have to have a power relay so if the engine is running the slides cannot be operated, not sure it would be the same one

That was my plan, been thinking about this all night (my Windsor is one of my main insomnia triggers).

The control board I have has 4 relays, one of the relays is an ignition lockout relay.  

Also going to check the wiring harness on the board to make sure the larger wires are not there. don't remember seeing them yesterday but wasn't specifically looking.  It does have one large ~8 awg wired directly to the stud on the salesman relay so it might actually be sending power all the way from the control module to the front slide motor but seems like a long ways.  I looked at my wiring diagram and it does not show any other relay for the power to the motor.   The motor is only suppose to draw 6 amps so the ~#10 wire may be big enough. 

I'll be working on it later today, I'd hate to have to dig into tracing the wiring but there. 

 

[Dr4Film]

I would remove the suspect motor and bench test it with a 12 VDC battery. Bench test your old spare one too. That will tell you more information.

Here is an article about how to bench test a 12 VDC motor with a meter set to ohms.

How To Check Whether Your DC Electric Motor Has Gone "Bad" (ezinearticles.com)

[Dr4Film]

Many years ago while sitting at the kitchen table we heard rapid clicking somewhere in the coach. Traced it down to a resettable relay on the slide control board in the RRB. I quickly unplugged the board to prevent any further damage or fire.

Went into my troubeshooting routine and found that the passenger side kitchen slide motor had failed. Mine you, this slide had not been used in years as I was living at Valencia Travel Village from 2003 to 2010. It had a dead short inside. The motor had caused the slide-out board to have a meltdown. Photo attached. I rebuilt the board with a section of solder to bridge the gap where it had melted so now it is a "spare".

Ordered a new one and it's been fine ever since. So, how does a motor that hasn't been used or run in years just completely fail while sitting there?

[jacwjames]

I intend to test both motors with power to see if they move.  That's how I got the rear slide back out for easier access to the wires. 

The article says that the motor can test "0" ohms, maybe if it is in the right position.   It's hard to spin the motor if it's still attached to the gear box. 

I've got a couple of other things to test also.  I'll report back on my progress. 

I've seen quite a few posts on the IRV2 forum regarding slides not working.  I guess after ~20 years things start going south pretty fast. 

 

[jacwjames]

Got IT

So I checked both motors and they worked, I used a battery charger and inserted some wire into the pin connection, worked both ways when I reversed the connectors. So that ruled out the motor.

So looking at the wiring harness there were 4 larger 10awg wires that went to the motors plus one large ground wire.  I went ahead and ohmed all the wires and finally found one that was grounded, it was a small yellow wire.   I checked both switches and neither had a small yellow wire.  The wiring diagram does show a common yellow that actually connects to the module, front steps, and generator module. 

So the only thing else that I hadn't checked was the 3 basement door inhibitor switches.   I have had all 3 doors open over the last week so!!!!!!!  First one I checked was the fuel bay door, from the front it looked good but when I reached around back the guts of it were hanging out, YIKES.  And it was in contact with the frame in the back.  Luckily I had a spare and installed it. 

Plugged back in the motor and then plugged the harness back into the slide module.  The fuse didn't blow>>> good sign.  I then tried the front slide and it worked. 

So I thought the inhibitor switches were a ground circuit but they must be powered.    Considering the back of the switch is pretty exposed that's scary.  But I have had the 5 amp fuse blow before, maybe I accidentally hit the back of the switch and blew the fuse.

Edited August 26, 2022 by jacwjames

[Dr4Film]

Jim,

Pleased to hear that it wasn't a motor and you finally found the culprit. I disabled each of the four bay door plunger switches that open under the roadside & curbside slides. They were always a PIA. 

I made sure to inform the new owner, LennyD, that I did and gave him one bracket that I actually removed.

The only time one bay door was adjusted to open fully all way up was the one on the PS to access the Aqua-Hot sliding doors to service it. I always made sure to readjust the door back down to below the slide level.

[jacwjames]

Yup, not the first time the inhibitor switches have caused me a problem but I'm going to leave them. 

I'm sure if I took them off I'd forget and leave a door open and have one laying on the ground at some point. 

FWIW I bought a spare last year from NWRVSupply, price was ~$9.95.  Price to day shows $13.50 ~40% increase.  And no one else has it in stock.

[Rikadoo]

For thats one reason i love working on electrial issues, its never the same an it keeps you on your toes, great detective work, glad it was simple an not $$$

[jacwjames]

Yup, this was a new one on me. 

Most of the time the inhibitor switch would just not close completely and slamming the doors shut would solve the problem. 

Having one one fly apart was a new one.  I tired to put it back together but couldn't it to work. 

[Land Lubber]

A few weeks ago my '09 Camelot's slide motor-pump failed while on the road.  With a new replacement 8+ days away I chose to have a 'used' one installed that is working good. But, being that it is used I think I should buy a new one to have on hand should this used one go south on me. Lippert tells me the current direct replacement is the Lippert 156844. Should I order one from them or is there a better, more reasonably priced source that I should call? Looking online I see that RVupgrades.com offers one at a slightly lower cost.

[jacwjames]

Did they change the whole assembly.  I googled the number you posted and it shows the whole assembly. 

Was it just the motor, or was it the pump, or was it the valve block. 

[Land Lubber]

The motor would not turn using the interior switch & manually turning the motor with my electric drill/driver did nothing. The valve block is good...I am using it on the "new" motor/pump. Being that the coach is going on 14 years old I thought that the best choice would be to update both the motor & the pump.

[jacwjames]

Here is a post that Tom Cherry did ~20 months ago about this very topic.

If it was only your electric motor it may be worth trying to get a new one like it. 

Do you have the old parts to get the part number off of?

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by jacwjames

[Land Lubber]

Yes, swapped out the motor & pump but using my old valve assembly

Thanks for sharing this post....I had talked to Lippert & they gave me the updated Lippert 156844 part number. This includes the valve block assembly. It makes sense to update this also I think.

[Tom Cherry]

7 hours ago, Land Lubber said:

A few weeks ago my '09 Camelot's slide motor-pump failed while on the road.  With a new replacement 8+ days away I chose to have a 'used' one installed that is working good. But, being that it is used I think I should buy a new one to have on hand should this used one go south on me. Lippert tells me the current direct replacement is the Lippert 156844. Should I order one from them or is there a better, more reasonably priced source that I should call? Looking online I see that RVupgrades.com offers one at a slightly lower cost.

I had the same issue.  My motor failed for a lot of reasons…

Had a high resistance connection somewhere between the 200 A ANL fuse and the motor.  Motor amps went too high…many times.

Monaco GOOFED on the install.  They mistakenly (stupidly) put in a resettable circuit breaker in the FRB.  LIPPERT, off the record rates the motor at 65 Amps.  Should have been a 75A breaker there.  Monaco left the option, like the last Windsor, for a hydraulic slide on the Genny.  That was a totally self contained unit….and separate from the slide system.  You should replace the FRB circuit breaker with a 75 A one.  Now, I have run some current testing.  You, even with fully charged batteries, and Genny runnin*, might see a voltage drop.  That motor is a LONG WAY from the rear.  I have yet to find the intermittent and elusive “high resistance” connection….and I have tried as well as our resident electronic expert and two shops.  I will tell you that the house batteries need to stay charged….and sometimes I start the Genny to use.  That pumps, directly, 80 PLUS amps into the house batteries.  

Next up…tips or recommendations for 5he new unit,  YES or 2 X YES….get the new unit.  It is an easy install and you get the redesigned pump with the improved reservoir..!  If you look at the old one, the reservoir hangs out like a piece of bread or “loaf”.  Most folks here and on the old site custom fabricated some sort of bracket to support the far or outside end….otherwise there was a reservoir to pump failure and leak issue.  So….do not go cheap.  Get the new one.  The motor from Lippert was over $1000 and the cheaper aftermarket motors have a lousy track record.

NEXT.  I ran a 2/0 ( not a #2) new ground to the motor.  The old ground was puny.  I think there was a bolt nearby or drilled and tapped a hole and abraded off the paint.

Next…  when you get the new one, remove the terminal nuts from the motor.  Look carefully.  There is a stud or terminal locking nut on each one.  That nut was not tightened properly from the factory.  If it is loose, it will allow a high resistance connection inside the motor.  I snuggled up the new motor and put maybe 1/4-1/2 turn on each.  Now don’t go crazy, but snug it up with a wrench.  It is maybe 3/8-7/16….so you have a short wrench.  Use common sense.

Final comment for Lippert.  Tell them you have the OEM Monaco “home brew” diode control harness.  I can send you the schematic.  That complete unit, per Lippert, will come with a “suitable” slide control….as in one of theirs.  It is not needed.  The base unit, as it, is a 100% plus and play. The only two “connections” is the power cable to the Solenoid and the ground on the motor.  Everything else is exactly the same connector and colors.  A 10 YO could plug iit in.

The above is what’s needed.  After all my voltage drop testing, even with all good connections, under load I lose about half a volt.  I purchased a Blue Seas Battery selector switch.  I used the chassis stud on the right side of the big PCB.  BATTERY 1 on the switch is the original House feed.  Battery 2 is the Chassis stud feed on the switch.  It has a 200 Amp ANL fuse and is the same size cable as the. Original feed.  I NOW use the Chassis batteries and the slide runs a little faster and smoother.  In a lunch, I can pull a fuse (#17?) and that disables the ignition lock out relay.  So I can use the chassis with engine running….or 160 A alternator or Zboth.

After you install it, with the house batteries charged and the Genny running, use a clamp on amp meter and measure the current, both ways.  If you get close to 80 A, then you probably have a high resistance connection.  I carry a spare Blue Seas switch and will swap the house disconnect switch out.  I nave tighten every stud and nut from the fuse to the motor as well as the cable to the Buss where the fuse is.  All I know is that for the last 8 - 10 years, it has been a PITA.  I first blew the 200 amp fuse.  I could not fine the OEM BUSSMANN HD ignition proof (what the boaters call them) fuse and blew 2 more.  That probably cooked the motor.  Then I found the loose connections on the motor in 2018.  Drove it 8.5K on a trip.  Then in the fall of 2019, it got really cantankerous…drive it 15 miles….would barely move.  Then 50 miles @nd OK.  I FINALLY got mad and cycled it to failure in the driveway.  Ran voltage tests on every connection.  Ordered a new one.  Put in the Blue Seas selector switch and have been using 5he Chassis to move.  Happy Camper Am I.  Slide was always lubricated and got rid of Dometic refrigerator and out in a Samsung that was 200 pounds or so lighter.

That’s my story….