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Can’t get her to start???


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Hello All - I having a new problem today. My 1996 Monaco Crown Royale Signature won’t start!  Ugh. 

I replaced the chassis batteries(even through they tested good at O’Reillys), but when I tried to start her, I get nothing. The dash voltage meter drops below the 8 volts on the meter, but when I put my meter on the (new) batteries, the voltage only drops a bit when I turn the key. I pulled out the ignition switch and tested the terminals for continuity. All seemed good as I placed the switch in the different positions. 
 

Any ideas from my fellow Monaco friends?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!!

 

Joe

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Guest Ray Davis

 

20 minutes ago, Joe Lee said:

Hello All - I having a new problem today. My 1996 Monaco Crown Royale Signature won’t start!  Ugh. 

I replaced the chassis batteries(even through they tested good at O’Reillys), but when I tried to start her, I get nothing. The dash voltage meter drops below the 8 volts on the meter, but when I put my meter on the (new) batteries, the voltage only drops a bit when I turn the key. I pulled out the ignition switch and tested the terminals for continuity. All seemed good as I placed the switch in the different positions. 
 

Any ideas from my fellow Monaco friends?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!!

 

Joe

I would start with a thorough cleaning of the cables, connections & grounds to those batteries.

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I echo Ray

Clean up all the cables,check ALL cables going into clamps,any black tape get it off and check,something simple, Ground

Wayne

1999 Signature ceaser 

May be a silly question, sure your hooked properly, sometimes other owners do some strange stuff 

Batteries full charge 

Way

1999 Signature ceaser 

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If all the above checks out and there is similarity between yours and our 2000.... there is a small starter solenoid in driver side rear power panel. That solenoid should have permanent hot lead on one of the big posts. That power comes through a resetable breaker directly from starting battery. If no power there, it is gonna be the battery wiring or switch. If there is power, that solenoid gets turned on through neutral relay from ignition switch. So, it depends what you find there.

Screenshot_20221228_175717_Gallery.jpg

Edited by Ivan K
Changed wording for starter solenoid, not relay...
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Hi Wayne!  I hope the batteries are connected correctly!  To be honest, I’m not sure. I took a picture before I disconnected them but I’m unclear if they where ever wired correctly. 

I will recheck the connections.  
 

From these suggestions, seems I need to test the stater.  Does anyone have a procedure to test the starter?

 

 

 

Thanks Ivan!  I will look for that!

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It does sound like you have the batteries incorrectly connected or, the batteries have a limited charge or, you have a bad starter or, you have a bad connection. Here are some things I would try.

It isn't easy to test the starter but you can start by disconnecting all positives from the starter and then check continuity between the positive starter post and ground. That should be open. Beyond that you could remove the starter to see if the armature turns, inspect brushes and check to see if the solenoid is moving when power is applied and that it is making good connection within itself.

You should also try putting a charger on the batteries to make certain they are fully charged. New batteries can show voltage but be only partially charged.

You should also minimize the positive connections to the new batteries by disconnecting anything other than power to the starter and the ignition switch and then try starting.

If none of this works I would go through EVERY high power connection (big wires), positive and negative, to make certain that connections are all clean and TIGHT.

Good luck!

-Jamie 

 

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2 hours ago, Joe Lee said:

Hello All - I having a new problem today. My 1996 Monaco Crown Royale Signature won’t start!  Ugh. 

I replaced the chassis batteries(even through they tested good at O’Reillys), but when I tried to start her, I get nothing. The dash voltage meter drops below the 8 volts on the meter, but when I put my meter on the (new) batteries, the voltage only drops a bit when I turn the key. I pulled out the ignition switch and tested the terminals for continuity. All seemed good as I placed the switch in the different positions. 
 

Any ideas from my fellow Monaco friends?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!!

 

Joe

Joe,

What engine do you have?

  • This may be a fuel system issue.
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The old side of the road trick is climb under with an old screw driver and cross it over the terminals on the starter. If the starter is good it will turn over the engine. Have the key on if you want it to start. Make sure your front/rear switch is good. I had to replace mine this past summer.

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Guest Ray Davis
16 hours ago, Joe Lee said:

The dash voltage meter drops below the 8 volts on the meter, but when I put my meter on the (new) batteries, the voltage only drops a bit when I turn the key

The statement above strongly suggest to me a connection failure of some sort, probably the battery ground to the chassis.  However any battery connection along its path is suspect, either positive or negative.   Cables at the battery can look ok but be rotten just under the insulation                      When testing at the battery instead of placing the meter neg lead directly to the battery find a good ground elsewhere and test again, a poor batt ground may show up that way.  Many elect issues have been solved by finding where the ground cables attaches to frame / chassis and litterally grinding to clean metal to attain a good ground.  When you feel that has been attained paint it over with battery sealer for protection.   You can also test for a big voltage drop at the battery disconnect switch.  You should have 2 of those 1 for chassis and 1 for house batteries, mine are big round knobs back in my rear pass side elect bay near the batteries.  The power to the starter it's self does not feed through that switch but pretty much everything else does and they do go bad. Sometimes as a temporary fix or just to see if it's a problem owners will put the 2 wires together under 1 screw.  Be careful around the batteries, no sparks and remember there is enough power in the batteries to turn a wrench cherry red or melt it, then maybe explode.

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GM Friends - Yesterday, I tested the key switch and replaced the ignition replay on the Rear Run Plate. No luck getting her to turn over. And, when I said she won’t start, I should have said the engine won’t turn over. Sorry Guys. 
 

CAT Stephen - I have a Cummins M11 - 400e engine. 

OhReally - I will attach a picture of my chassis batteries. Would you please double check the wiring?  I will charge the batteries today to ensure a full charge and test as you note. 
 

Ivan - I can’t find a starter solenoid on the rear power panel. I see the ‘salesman’s’ switch solenoid and the 1000 amp battery boost solenoid only. Could it be somewhere else? And, she won’t start from the rear starter switch either. (Rats!)

Ray - I going to follow your ideas to troubleshoot today.  Wouldn’t it be great if it was just a bad ground?!? My coach sat for many years before I got her and went full time.  She has lots of corrosion and rust.  
 

Last Question today: I thought I recalled someone putting wiring diagrams on the Monaco Site.  I looked but didn’t see them.  Are they on the site?  And/Or, does anyone have a diagram for a 1996 Monaco Crown Royale Signature that would include the path between the ignition key switch and the batteries?  I know that is a big ask.  Ivan shared a great diagram and there may not be a diagram that includes the path between the ignition key switch and the batteries.  
 

My thanks for any and all help!  I’m planning to roll on 1/18/23 and can’t even get her to turn over.  

 

392E8118-299E-4B86-AD2B-DE58134D0B0E.jpeg

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Joe, from your picture of battery connections I'm not sure it is picture quality or dirty terminals. Again, if it were mine I would get those cables off the battery and use one of the cheap battery terminal cleaners on both batteries and wire terminals. Make sure to clean the posts and wire terminals until both are shiny lead, then reassemble per picture.

BTW, your ignition switch doesn't carry the starter load. It simply provides low current 12 volts to the starter solenoid, where the solenoid then provides high current 12 volts to the starter. Get that large black wire off the chassis, wherever it is connected, and make those connections shiny with a wire brush or sandpaper. The large red wire will go directly to the starter solenoid. Clean it up to shiny at the solenoid, as well. There is also a large wire going from solenoid to the starter. Get it off and clean it shiny also.

Since you get nothing from front or rear start key your switches may be good and the problem is elsewhere.

Be aware that when you clean up all your positive (red) connections at the solenoid and starter you should have your battery positive disconnected to prevent accidental arcing. Don't use the RV battery disconnect to disconnect this because it probably won't disconnect the battery from the solenoid and starter.

I've tried to be succinct in my instructions since I don't know your automotive/electrical background, please don't take offense. Just trying to be very clear.

And, get those batteries charged. The dash voltmeter may be correctly showing you a bad connection, a bad battery or nothing significant.

Good luck again.

-Jamie 

 

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12 hours ago, Joe Lee said:

Also … here’s a video of the dash voltage meter when I move the key switch from the off position to the run position, then the starter position. See the voltage drop?

IMG_7867.MOV  

 

IMG_7867.MOV 30.01 MB · 3 downloads  

 

IMG_7867.MOV  

 

On 12/28/2022 at 5:44 PM, Joe Lee said:

Hello All - I having a new problem today. My 1996 Monaco Crown Royale Signature won’t start!  Ugh. 

I replaced the chassis batteries(even through they tested good at O’Reillys), but when I tried to start her, I get nothing. The dash voltage meter drops below the 8 volts on the meter, but when I put my meter on the (new) batteries, the voltage only drops a bit when I turn the key. I pulled out the ignition switch and tested the terminals for continuity. All seemed good as I placed the switch in the different positions. 
 

Any ideas from my fellow Monaco friends?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!!

 

Joe

Joe,

 

In your video, your starting batteries are showing ~12.0V before you crank the engine at the key run position.  12.0V at rest means that your starting battery bank may be discharged to the 50% level.  If your starting bank was fully charged, it would show 12.6V at rest.  I'm concerned that you may have a battery charging issue that is contributing to the starting issue, assuming that your inverter also charges your starter battery bank when you are on shore power.  Here is information on using battery voltage to determine state of charge:

https://footprinthero.com/lead-acid-battery-voltage-charts

I recommend utilizing a set of jumper cables so that you can use your car or truck starting battery in parallel with your RV starter battery bank to assist with the start after you fully charge your starter battery bank.  The 500-700 additional cranking amps will make a substantial difference.  If it does not, you may have a fuel system issue.  On the Cummins M11, the fuel solenoid may have failed resulting in no fuel being delivered to the engine.

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Thanks Guys!

I wasn’t able to work on her yesterday and can’t today. I like all the ideas!  The batteries are new but could have a bad cell for sure. 
 

Prior to the issue with starting, I cleaned the old Winn Fuel Water Separator. (see attached picture) and have also been trying to figure out why I have low voltage when I try to start my generator. The issue in the generator is that the voltage drops to about 8 volts when I press the started button and the fuel solenoid won’t open the fuel door on the side of my Onan 10k diesel generator.  When I provide 12 volts directly to the fuel solenoid, it operates correctly. The low voltage at the generator is what has me working on the chassis batteries and since then, I have the new added problem of the chassis engine not turning over. 
 

CAT Stephen - you suggest that the fuel solenoid my have failed. I’m sure I don’t have fuel following through the Winn fuel water separator yet. Will the fuel solenoid cause the engine to not turn over?  
 

I clearly should have been working on only one problem at a time!

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Jamie J - I really appreciate the detail. (I need the detail!)  It was kind to be concerned about offending me. There’s no way that will happen!

I’m under a bit of pressure to get all these issues resolved as I need to travel over 300 miles on 1.18.2023. I’m going to a school on the east coast of North Carolina to get my Captain’s License as I’m pursuing a new career path (and, I’m 58 years old!)

I originally purchased my Monaco to help me shop for boats. Then, we decided to become Full-Timers. Since then, I have had so many problems that it seems working on my Monaco takes a lot of my time. 
 

But, I’m learning a lot and truly appreciate you and the entire group of people! 
 

I’m hopeful that I will finally have learned enough that I can help others as you all have helped me. 
 

Happy New Year and safe travels to everyone in 2023!

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Joe, one more thing that hasn't been mentioned about batteries. 

Many battery seller's simply add acid to dry lead acid batteries and then sell them. The added acid will result in a minimum battery charge but NOT a fully charged battery. The seller is leaving it up to the buyer to charge the battery or, IF it is sufficient to start the vehicle, the buyer's alternator then charges the battery. This is not a good practice because an alternator charging a "dead" battery can damage the alternator due to excess heat.

As Stephen mentions 12 volts is not a fully charged battery - probably considered dead. Batteries have what is known as a surface charge when depleted or when acid is added with no subsequent charging. That surface charge is probably all you are measuring at your meter. When you subsequently charge a new battery you add significant amperage to the battery. Think of it in terms of a liquid in a pitcher. A partly full pitcher is not empty but it has a minimum of what it can hold. When you fill the pitcher to the top you add as much as it can hold, just like adding charge to the nearly empty battery.

Get those batteries charged up. If your generator now starts, leave it running and plug in a battery charger on the engine start batteries. By doing so with your generator you will overcome generator problems due to it's lack of use (also turn on an AC in your coach to properly load the generator) and get your batteries charged. 

Good luck on this and your new venture, Captain.

-Jamie 

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A lot of good info above. some one mentioned the chassis and house switches. The connection from your battery to the starter SHOULD NOT GO THRU the chassis switch. while a good blue sea switch is rated for 1,000 amps or so, my 8.3 Cummins recommends a CCA of 1,200 for reliable starting. my starter cable comes off the chassis battery bank and goes directly to the starter. Check the voltage at the big lug on your starter.  I would second using a jumper from the big starter cable to the starter solenoid wire post. I carry 2 ft long wires with alligator clips for that type of testing. Measuring voltage at both the solenoid wire and starter cable lug while trying to start could help with trouble shooting. As the current has to get back to the battery, all ground cables should also be checked. 

If your battery voltage stays at 12 volts (measuring at the clamp, not the post) when the dash voltmeter is showing 8, resistance in the circuit somewhere is causing a big voltage drop. dash voltmeter is not measuring at the battery. it is probably measuring in a distribution panel. my Scepter panel is on the driver side in front of the front wheel. yours seems to be somewhere else. testing voltage in the panel while some one turns the key might let you locate the general area of high resistance.

PM me for a phone number if you want to talk directly.

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