looking for clarification on , can damage occur with power source mixed

[Gweedo]

Okay I have never really found a definitive answer on the following questions, hopefully you electrical guru's can straighten me out once and for all on whether electrical damage can occur.

SENARIOS:

1.   Plugged into shore power or portable genny.  If I turn on the coach generator can electrical damage occur, since I am getting power from both sources.  or in reverse, if I have the coach genny going can I plug into shore power to prevent an interruption or damage to the coach or genny.  

2.   If I am plugged into shore power, can I switch the inverter to on and not have an electrical issue, (I don't want my res fridge to go off) 

3.   Is it a good idea/or necessary to run a second inverter for the fridge.  I have whatever came with my 07 HR, is that enough.  I installed a new res fridge and have only used it once.  I just put in new coach batts.  hoping this is enough.    

My biggest worries are questions 1 and 2, there are  so many different opinions on this.  I'd really like to know so I don't cause damage and two, so I can bet the next guy a beer.

 

Thanks, 

[Ivylog]

Transfer switch will only connect to one source so having both powered will not hurt anything.

Turning the inverter on (not sure why you’d turn it off) isn’t going to change anything… the transfer switch in it will still pass power through.

If you only use a inverter to power a refrigerator (not likely) and if the current inverter is a MSW and you are not powering a Samsung, then another 1000W PSW inverter would reduce your power usage BUT unless you dry camp often, not worth the effort.

[Gweedo]

I did install a new Samsung FR18, seems to be the norm for the most part.  

 

Regarding the inverter, I was under the understanding that was used to power thing when neither shore power or generator was on.    

I have a digital meter on an outlet that shows volts in when I'm on the inverter,  i am assuming that is enough for the fridge or I am I not understanding correctly.

 

 

[Martinvz]

I installed a dedicated PSW inverter that is used only for the residential fridge. Many people use, as far as I can tell, the MSW inverter successfully. The question is for how long. 

I did not want to replace the Magnum inverter/converter at this time. So far, no issues. It is connected to the cutoff switch and an additional breaker. The house batteries are still charged via the converter when plugged in to 120V.

[Old Dog]

Your inverter converts 12vdc to 120vac but ONLY when no 110vac is available. When 110vac is preset the inverter just "passes" the 110vac directly through the inverter. It's called a "pass through" feature.

[Gweedo]

to the coach cutoff switch?  and did you install an inline breaker and a new outlet?  what size did you go with/

 

[Ivylog]

Should have asked which inverter you have??? I leave mine on all the time but it only inverts when there’s no 120 power into it. When there’s 130V power it passes the power through to the microwave, some outlets (TV) and to the refrigerator because it’s plugged into the outlet from the inverter.

A Samsung has a DC compressor so it runs well on a MSW.

[waterskier_1]

As Dick said, the is a transfer switch that we'll only allow score power OR generator power tho pass.  The generator has priority, so the transfer switch will always connect the generator tho the coach no matter if there it's shore power.

Additionally, the iis another special transfer switch built into the inverter.  Normally, the 110 VAC from shore power (or generator) passes through the inverter when either is present.  When the shore power (or generator) is removed, the inverter internal transfer switch switches to "inverter" mode. If the inverter is turned on, it will output 110 VAC to the same output as the shore power. If the inverter is turned off, the will be no 110 VAC available to the output. The inverter function is off if there is scope power.  It is not possible for the thers be shore power and the inverter inverting (functioning) at the same time. 

This makes it "idiot-proof" so you can't make a dangerous mistake. 

  -Rick N 

[Gweedo]

I have two outlets behind the fridge, one is connected to the GFI and that one is also on when the inverter is on.  I should show 114 volts on the meter when no shore power or genny is running, is that correct

[Ivylog]

Just now, Gweedo said:

I have two outlets behind the fridge, one is connected to the GFI and that one is also on when the inverter is on.  I should show 114 volts on the meter when no shore power or genny is running, is that correct

114 plus or minus 6. Hopefully on the plus side.

[Harold]

I'll just share my experience with doing exactly what you mention.  "Before" when I performed a live power transfer, the transfer switch work great in transferring power from one source to the other.  BUT, I had it go wrong one time and the result was a fried converter (not a Monaco) and damage to my A/C control board. 

With most generators you are transferring (from or to) both legs of 120v in-phase to two 120v out-of-phase sources (i.e. 220/240).  The neutral has to cleanly switch (and if it doesn't then you might have 240v momentarily on your 120v lines) and both legs have to cleanly switch.  Relays can arc, particularly under heavy load (which was the case in my situation).  I also expect the quality of the transfer switch plays a role.  If you remove all loads and perform the live switch-over, you'll have less risk of an Arc/surge, but they why not just shutdown the power and then power-up the new source.  If your inverter is working, then the loss of power for a minute or two shouldn't matter anyway.

From my experience, I will no longer transfer power live, I'll switch off the power and restart the power so that the transfer switch is unloaded when it switches.  I'm sure that many will, correctly, tell you that they have never had a problem.  For me it only took one bad transfer for me to reconsider a live power transfer as it isn't worth the potential damage.

[Gweedo]

I'm embarrassed to say I've owned this for 7 years, I should know.  I am very mechanically inclined and do all my own work, but when it comes to electrical I am the dunce of the class.  I'm going to run out to the rv garage and see which inverter I have,  back in a minute.

 

[Ivylog]

7 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

  I'm going to run out to the rv garage and see which inverter I have,  back in a minute.

 

Likely a Magnum ME2012 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Ivylog

[Gweedo]

my inverter is the Magnum 2000 watt.   turning off the power is what I have been doing, and that's because I just didn't know. 

The only thing running while driving I am assuming is the fridge or anything plugged in.  

 

 

8 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

Likely a Magnum ME2012 

yes that is the model..  is that enough power?

 

18 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

114 plus or minus 6. Hopefully on the plus side.

so if o show the 114 plus that means the fridge has enough juice going to it correct?  don't want to damage a new fridge

13 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

Likely a Magnum ME2012 

 

20 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

114 plus or minus 6. Hopefully on the plus side.

 

[Ivylog]

3 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

my inverter is the Magnum 2000 watt.   turning off the power is what I have been doing, and that's because I just didn't know. 

The only thing running while driving I am assuming is the fridge or anything plugged in.  

 

 

yes that is the model..  is that enough power?

 

More than double what the refrigerator needs and it’s a MSW inverter. The microwave will use 3/4th of its power. If it wasn’t a Samsung, then another smaller PSW inverter would be a good idea to power a refrigerator with the more normal AC motor/compressor.

[Gweedo]

Thank you guys for the info and help.  I'll feel better going down the road.   

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Gweedo said:

Okay I have never really found a definitive answer on the following questions, hopefully you electrical guru's can straighten me out once and for all on whether electrical damage can occur.

SENARIOS:

1.   Plugged into shore power or portable genny.  If I turn on the coach generator can electrical damage occur, since I am getting power from both sources.  or in reverse, if I have the coach genny going can I plug into shore power to prevent an interruption or damage to the coach or genny.  

2.   If I am plugged into shore power, can I switch the inverter to on and not have an electrical issue, (I don't want my res fridge to go off) 

3.   Is it a good idea/or necessary to run a second inverter for the fridge.  I have whatever came with my 07 HR, is that enough.  I installed a new res fridge and have only used it once.  I just put in new coach batts.  hoping this is enough.    

My biggest worries are questions 1 and 2, there are  so many different opinions on this.  I'd really like to know so I don't cause damage and two, so I can bet the next guy a beer.

 

Thanks, 

@Gweedo  Please read this carefully.  You will get an email alerting you to this post.  There has been a LOT of info presented....by a lot of experienced folks.....but I tried to summarize and answer your questions.  One of these days,  I might write this up as it is a common question(s)....here goes....

#1 - NO.  The ATS protects you from that.  When the ATS senses or gets voltage from the Genny, it automatically switches from Shore.  If you left the shore plugged in, it is going NO WHERE as the Line from the Generator is going directly to the Main Panel.   

NOW....NOTE THIS.  NEVER DO THIS IF YOU HAVE ON AN AIR CONDITIONER.  You need to turn off the AC.  The RECOMMENDED way is to use the ZONE and MODE buttons and NOT keep switching the bottom switch ON and OFF.  That switch fails and you have get a NEW or rebuilt one.  What I and many others do is to call up a Zone (1 or 2) and then use the MODE and go to OFF.  Then go the other Zone and use Mode to OFF. 

The reason is that if the HVAC (Compressor) is running and then you switch to Genny, the Generator needs to run for maybe 2 - 5 minutes.  THEN it is warmed up.  You then use the Zone and Mode to go back to AC.  Trust me....I did this one and my Genny was NOT a happy camper....and refused to run for 30 minutes....like it was resetting.  Do it this way and you also extend the life of your "can't get a new one" 5 button Thermostat.

#2.  NEVER TURN OFF THE INVERTER when you are using SHORE or INVERTER.  You will NOT have any internal power to your outlets and your res refer will be unhappy.  In ORDER for you to have Internal (outlet and Microwave) power, you have to have a "decent" set of house batteries.  The inverter has to "See or SENSE" a 12 VDC bank.  THEN, it allows the internal ATS (on the main board) to stay CLOSED and your 30 Amp breaker is feeding the Inverter (as well as charging) and the you have the PASS THROUGH POWER.  SO, YES....leave it on at all times.  When you drive, unless your system has been upgraded, your Alternator is charging the House as well.  SO, the inverter has to be ON to INVERT or provide 12 VDC to 120 VAC power.  If it doesn't come on or has an issue....no AC Power and your Res Refer is unhappy.,

#3.  There is NO SET answer.  I was all for installing a second inverter....until I sat down and drew it out and did some "math".  You PROBABLY (DO have a Magnum ME2012) and it is a 3600 WATT (output on pass through Shore) inverter, but it says 2000 Watts.  What that means is the 30 Amp breaker, on shore, will allow the ATS inside the Inverter to provide you with 30 amps or 3600 watt of JUICE.  BUT, when it is INVERTRING and running off the batteries, it can only produce 2000 Watts of power.  SOME folks use a bunch of other appliances like coffee makers or hair dryers or such.  But, if you understand that you will have the equivalent of a 15 Amp (1800 Watt) or so HOME circuit and NOT overload it it works fine.  For example, NEVER run your microwave for more than a minute on your 4 bank set.  Maybe if you had a Dynasty and 8 batteries, a little long. But that load will suck down the batteries and you might get a Low Voltage or Low Battery Cut Off error and everything shuts down.  Two TV's on and a Res Refer running and maybe a small oscillating fan and a few phone chargers will work just fine.  The startup Amps on the Res Refer might hit, for a few milliseconds, 3 or 4 amps....then drop down to maybe 1 - 2.  We have measured this...as many have.  The rule of thumb.  Use your stock Inverter.  Use your 4 bank set (assuming they are capable of 100% State of Charge.  You will have to run your Genny about 3 hours or so every 24 hours and your batteries will be FINE.  NOW, most of us that would do that have converted the interior or puck overhead lights to LED as well as the under counter...  AND we use the Energy Saver setting on the Res Refer and also shut OFF the ICEMAKER.  We also have power strips on the TV and Satellite dish and amplifier/receivers.  Their "Stand By" or INSTANT ON draws a lot of "milliamps"...but that is a parasitic load that needs to be eliminated when you boon dock or dry camp....even if you do have the stock, puny 65 Watt solar.

OK....Read and REREAD.  This is what you need to know and what you asked.  Details for your understanding are included, at no extra cost....pop quiz may be given to make sure you read and your membership might be at risk.  LOL....when folks give detailed answers, they want folks to UNDERSTAND and not just get a quick answer that might not be applicable to a similar question...

GOOD LUCK...if you need a better explanation...Post or PM me.... 

 

[Gweedo]

52 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

@Gweedo  Please read this carefully.  You will get an email alerting you to this post.  There has been a LOT of info presented....by a lot of experienced folks.....but I tried to summarize and answer your questions.  One of these days,  I might write this up as it is a common question(s)....here goes....

#1 - NO.  The ATS protects you from that.  When the ATS senses or gets voltage from the Genny, it automatically switches from Shore.  If you left the shore plugged in, it is going NO WHERE as the Line from the Generator is going directly to the Main Panel.   

NOW....NOTE THIS.  NEVER DO THIS IF YOU HAVE ON AN AIR CONDITIONER.  You need to turn off the AC.  The RECOMMENDED way is to use the ZONE and MODE buttons and NOT keep switching the bottom switch ON and OFF.  That switch fails and you have get a NEW or rebuilt one.  What I and many others do is to call up a Zone (1 or 2) and then use the MODE and go to OFF.  Then go the other Zone and use Mode to OFF. 

The reason is that if the HVAC (Compressor) is running and then you switch to Genny, the Generator needs to run for maybe 2 - 5 minutes.  THEN it is warmed up.  You then use the Zone and Mode to go back to AC.  Trust me....I did this one and my Genny was NOT a happy camper....and refused to run for 30 minutes....like it was resetting.  Do it this way and you also extend the life of your "can't get a new one" 5 button Thermostat.

#2.  NEVER TURN OFF THE INVERTER when you are using SHORE or INVERTER.  You will NOT have any internal power to your outlets and your res refer will be unhappy.  In ORDER for you to have Internal (outlet and Microwave) power, you have to have a "decent" set of house batteries.  The inverter has to "See or SENSE" a 12 VDC bank.  THEN, it allows the internal ATS (on the main board) to stay CLOSED and your 30 Amp breaker is feeding the Inverter (as well as charging) and the you have the PASS THROUGH POWER.  SO, YES....leave it on at all times.  When you drive, unless your system has been upgraded, your Alternator is charging the House as well.  SO, the inverter has to be ON to INVERT or provide 12 VDC to 120 VAC power.  If it doesn't come on or has an issue....no AC Power and your Res Refer is unhappy.,

#3.  There is NO SET answer.  I was all for installing a second inverter....until I sat down and drew it out and did some "math".  You PROBABLY (DO have a Magnum ME2012) and it is a 3600 WATT (output on pass through Shore) inverter, but it says 2000 Watts.  What that means is the 30 Amp breaker, on shore, will allow the ATS inside the Inverter to provide you with 30 amps or 3600 watt of JUICE.  BUT, when it is INVERTRING and running off the batteries, it can only produce 2000 Watts of power.  SOME folks use a bunch of other appliances like coffee makers or hair dryers or such.  But, if you understand that you will have the equivalent of a 15 Amp (1800 Watt) or so HOME circuit and NOT overload it it works fine.  For example, NEVER run your microwave for more than a minute on your 4 bank set.  Maybe if you had a Dynasty and 8 batteries, a little long. But that load will suck down the batteries and you might get a Low Voltage or Low Battery Cut Off error and everything shuts down.  Two TV's on and a Res Refer running and maybe a small oscillating fan and a few phone chargers will work just fine.  The startup Amps on the Res Refer might hit, for a few milliseconds, 3 or 4 amps....then drop down to maybe 1 - 2.  We have measured this...as many have.  The rule of thumb.  Use your stock Inverter.  Use your 4 bank set (assuming they are capable of 100% State of Charge.  You will have to run your Genny about 3 hours or so every 24 hours and your batteries will be FINE.  NOW, most of us that would do that have converted the interior or puck overhead lights to LED as well as the under counter...  AND we use the Energy Saver setting on the Res Refer and also shut OFF the ICEMAKER.  We also have power strips on the TV and Satellite dish and amplifier/receivers.  Their "Stand By" or INSTANT ON draws a lot of "milliamps"...but that is a parasitic load that needs to be eliminated when you boon dock or dry camp....even if you do have the stock, puny 65 Watt solar.

OK....Read and REREAD.  This is what you need to know and what you asked.  Details for your understanding are included, at no extra cost....pop quiz may be given to make sure you read and your membership might be at risk.  LOL....when folks give detailed answers, they want folks to UNDERSTAND and not just get a quick answer that might not be applicable to a similar question...

GOOD LUCK...if you need a better explanation...Post or PM me.... 

 

Awesome and thank you!!  I read and I read it again and again.  I'm sure to win the next next time.  

[96 EVO]

First question, there is no definitive answer other than switch off any heavy loads, like heat pumps, microwave before you do it.

I unplug shore before I start the gen, and vis-versa.

I got bit once when my gen had a fault, and I still had shore power plugged in. Cost me a burned gen delay board in my ATS! 

Second question, turn on the inverter any time you like!

[Gary 05 AMB DST]

What I did for my Samsung when driving. I hard wired 12v from my house batteries to a 800 watt inverter in the adjacent bay. I ran 120v wire with a male plug from the inverter to the refrigerator with a female receptacle. When on the road, I plug the fridge into the inverter and turn it on. When on shore power, I use the 120v receptacle. I'm not putting extra draw on the main inverter.

Gary 05 AMB DST

[Old Dog]

One thing I didn't see mentioned is arcing. When ever you open/close shoretie & generator contacts under a load there will be some arcing so you should do everything you can to reduce the loads. Turn off ALL the big stuff until you've transferred.

[Martinvz]

Tom Cherry, This is not meant to be argumentative but I do not agree with you regarding the use of the built in inverter. I agree about the pass thru power but I do not see the need for running the inverter all the time.

As mentioned in my earlier reply to this discussion, I installed an additional PSW inverter for the 120V domestic fridge that runs all the time and is not using the pass-thru 120V. The MSW inverter MS2012 has not been turned on as we have had 30/50A hookups all the time on this 3-month trip. We have not come across any 120V outlets not working in the coach (except ones that may only be connected to inverted power an$ that we have not been using). We have had this config for the last 6 months since the install of the fridge. While driving we have no appliances turned on that are dependent on the MS2012 inverter, that I am aware of.

The PSW inverter was added as it was a gift from a friend and I am too cheap to replace the MSW inverter for the fridge with the PSW model.  The additional PSW inverter is running 100% of the time powered by the batteries.

As a side note, we had one leg of the 50A in a campground that was low-voltage and caused the Progressive EMS to trip periodically until we were moved to a different site. With the cool weather at the time the a/c’s were not being utilized. If we had the inverter running all the time we would not have had as many power outages (or possibly none) due to the EMS tripping. This is not a reason to keep the inverter off but just a benefit for that specific power supply condition.

Could you clarify what benefit the all-ways on inverter would provide? This config with dual inverters is unique to us and with my limited electrical knowledge, any explanation would be very welcome. 

[Gweedo]

I also have a large Dometic fridge/freezer I keep below.  Going to pull our boat to the river next week, it only takes about 3 1/2 hours.   I'll plug in the Dometic and get it cold so it doesn't pull a lot of amps on start up.  I'll run everything on the inverter and see how it goes.  I'll keep my beer in the ice chest just in case.    Thanks again for all the advice.  safe travels!!!

[Tom Cherry]

On 4/4/2023 at 8:49 AM, Martinvz said:

Tom Cherry, This is not meant to be argumentative but I do not agree with you regarding the use of the built in inverter. I agree about the pass thru power but I do not see the need for running the inverter all the time.

As mentioned in my earlier reply to this discussion, I installed an additional PSW inverter for the 120V domestic fridge that runs all the time and is not using the pass-thru 120V. The MSW inverter MS2012 has not been turned on as we have had 30/50A hookups all the time on this 3-month trip. We have not come across any 120V outlets not working in the coach (except ones that may only be connected to inverted power an$ that we have not been using). We have had this config for the last 6 months since the install of the fridge. While driving we have no appliances turned on that are dependent on the MS2012 inverter, that I am aware of.

The PSW inverter was added as it was a gift from a friend and I am too cheap to replace the MSW inverter for the fridge with the PSW model.  The additional PSW inverter is running 100% of the time powered by the batteries.

As a side note, we had one leg of the 50A in a campground that was low-voltage and caused the Progressive EMS to trip periodically until we were moved to a different site. With the cool weather at the time the a/c’s were not being utilized. If we had the inverter running all the time we would not have had as many power outages (or possibly none) due to the EMS tripping. This is not a reason to keep the inverter off but just a benefit for that specific power supply condition.

Could you clarify what benefit the all-ways on inverter would provide? This config with dual inverters is unique to us and with my limited electrical knowledge, any explanation would be very welcome. 

Certainly.  We have had many posters that have NOT had any pass through power when the inverter was “OFF”…BUT, in reality, the Inverter is never OFF as long as iit has a battery bank hooked up..  Magnum says that the inverter should be on and a 12 VDC house bank (one with a smidge of life and not totally dead and reading maybe zero or a few volts).  When the posters or myself, assisting them call Magnum, that is the first comment.  They explain that the inverter has to “see” battery power and then the internal ATS will pass through the shore power.  If it was “off”….no AC power…

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagArchive/64-0002-rev.-2-9-03-ME-Series.pdf

OK…..here the the gist of a 10 minute conversation with Magnum just now….called to verify…and ask the question several different ways...

There is no “switched OFF” status or inverter state….either from the interior remote or the power (reset) button on the inverter.  They both work the same.  NEITHER WILL “TURN OFF THE INVERTER”.  The only way is to physically remove the battery cable(s).  The term “off” is a misnomer.  The inverter goes into “standby”.  There is no advantage or any gain from going to STANDBY on the the inverter….while on Shore power.  It merely goes to sleep and is in standby. If it didn’t go into “standby” then if you lost your shore power, the inverter would not come on.  Magnum recommends that you leave the “search watts” enabled….set to minimum…but then said that there were a lot of owners that had sensitive electronic devices, such as satellite boxes or routers and that these would drop out and you had to restart or reboot.  Therefore, leaving the search watts disabled works just as well, as far as having the inverter go from shore to inverting and not shutting down the microwave or coffeemaker clocks.

To take that a step further, there is ALWAYS a 5% loss or conversion loss when the inverter is ON or in standby, it you prefer.  Turing off the inverter when boondocking might save a few milliamps of power, but unless you have a Battery Disconnect switch….on the incoming 12 VDC LINE….no gain.

OK….to quell the next question….or comment.  Monaco used TWO different wiring configuration.  SOME have the house Battery Disconnect switch On the incoming….so turning OFF the House disconnect does turn OFF the inverter.  However, most recent MONACO’s have the inverter, through a 300 Amp fuse, wired directly to the battery bank.  Thus, turning off my house disconnect does not kill 12VDC to the Inverter

Magnum says it is an exercise in futility….and a misconception,  NOW, we have a lot of high tech folks here.  I have never run a load test on my inverter’s parasitic draw when in Standby or when the display is “ON”.  He said that the term active is the best way to put it.  Standby is inactive, but ready to become active when needed and the power savings when running off battery power or inverting is negligible.

I have gone down this path many times and the above was my understanding.  But….it is always good to ask or discuss….as it helps in my comprehension.

Bottom line….you are switching from active to standby.  Unless you disconnect a battery cable, the inverter is always “ON”.  There is no power consumption or other benefit in putting it into standby….that is NOT turning it OFF.

In my “epistle” I did not want to get that deep, especially for the OP who is obviously trying to under the complicated electrical systems.  

So, I would have added…..the MYTH about turning off the Inverter is just that….then always leave it on…but you can switch it to standby…with no gain of function or power savings.   I feel more confident in having it “active”…technically a blip in shore would or should bring it on…but I had several issues with a faulty remote….and I knew that there was not advantage to using the standby mode.

Read the first few pages of the manual and then skim to the operation and test mode….

Hopes this explains it and your experience is correct, but your inverter was never OFF….only in standby.

[waterskier_1]

6 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Certainly.  We have had many posters that have NOT had any pass through power when the inverter was “OFF”…BUT, in reality, the Inverter is never OFF as long as iit has a battery bank hooked up..  Magnum says that the inverter should be on and a 12 VDC house bank (one with a smidge of life and not totally dead and reading maybe zero or a few volts).  When the posters or myself, assisting them call Magnum, that is the first comment.  They explain that the inverter has to “see” battery power and then the internal ATS will pass through the shore power.  If it was “off”….no AC power…

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagArchive/64-0002-rev.-2-9-03-ME-Series.pdf

OK…..here the the gist of a 10 minute conversation with Magnum just now….called to verify…and ask the question several different ways...

There is no “switched OFF” status or inverter state….either from the interior remote or the power (reset) button on the inverter.  They both work the same.  NEITHER WILL “TURN OFF THE INVERTER”.  The only way is to physically remove the battery cable(s).  The term “off” is a misnomer.  The inverter goes into “standby”.  There is no advantage or any gain from going to STANDBY on the the inverter….while on Shore power.  It merely goes to sleep and is in standby. If it didn’t go into “standby” then if you lost your shore power, the inverter would not come on.  Magnum recommends that you leave the “search watts” enabled….set to minimum…but then said that there were a lot of owners that had sensitive electronic devices, such as satellite boxes or routers and that these would drop out and you had to restart or reboot.  Therefore, leaving the search watts disabled works just as well, as far as having the inverter go from shore to inverting and not shutting down the microwave or coffeemaker clocks.

To take that a step further, there is ALWAYS a 5% loss or conversion loss when the inverter is ON or in standby, it you prefer.  Turing off the inverter when boondocking might save a few milliamps of power, but unless you have a Battery Disconnect switch….on the incoming 12 VDC LINE….no gain.

OK….to quell the next question….or comment.  Monaco used TWO different wiring configuration.  SOME have the house Battery Disconnect switch On the incoming….so turning OFF the House disconnect does turn OFF the inverter.  However, most recent MONACO’s have the inverter, through a 300 Amp fuse, wired directly to the battery bank.  Thus, turning off my house disconnect does not kill 12VDC to the Inverter

Magnum says it is an exercise in futility….and a misconception,  NOW, we have a lot of high tech folks here.  I have never run a load test on my inverter’s parasitic draw when in Standby or when the display is “ON”.  He said that the term active is the best way to put it.  Standby is inactive, but ready to become active when needed and the power savings when running off battery power or inverting is negligible.

I have gone down this path many times and the above was my understanding.  But….it is always good to ask or discuss….as it helps in my comprehension.

Bottom line….you are switching from active to standby.  Unless you disconnect a battery cable, the inverter is always “ON”.  There is no power consumption or other benefit in putting it into standby….that is NOT turning it OFF.

In my “epistle” I did not want to get that deep, especially for the OP who is obviously trying to under the complicated electrical systems.  

So, I would have added…..the MYTH about turning off the Inverter is just that….then always leave it on…but you can switch it to standby…with no gain of function or power savings.   I feel more confident in having it “active”…technically a blip in shore would or should bring it on…but I had several issues with a faulty remote….and I knew that there was not advantage to using the standby mode.

Read the first few pages of the manual and then skim to the operation and test mode….

Hopes this explains it and your experience is correct, but your inverter was never OFF….only in standby.

What we have here is a misunderstanding of terms....or at least a different understanding of terms, such that communication is confused.  I'll try and sort this out, for those who are still following.

First, the term "Inverter".  Many use this the mean the "box" that houses the "battery charger", the "inverter" and other "related components (e.g., the inverter transfer switch).  As Tom points out, there is no ON/OFF switch for this "box".  If you want to kill all the functions, and current consumed, the only way is to disconnect the 12 VDC power input.  This will inhibit the "box" from doing anything.  Depending on the manufacturer, this may or may not inhibit the 110 VAC Pass-thru function.  It will certainly shut off the ability to charge the batteries, and to make 110 VAC power.  

No, as pointed out above, the "Inverter Box" contains multiple functions.  The first is the Battery Charger.  The allows incoming 110 VAC Shore or Generator Power to charge the batteries, IF ENABLED.  Many "Inverter Box" Remote Controls allow for turning off the Battery Charger without disconnecting the "Box" from the batteries.  There are a variety of reason one may wish to do this, including maintenance of the batteries.  The Battery Charger function only works when there is Shore or Generator Power input to the Inverter "Box".   Second, there is the "Inverter".  This is the circuitry that takes 12 VDC from the batteries and "inverts" it to AC, in our case, most always 110 VAC - for our USA RVs.  This function can ONLY work when there is an absence of 110 VAC input to the "Box" meaning there is no Shore or Generator power.  This function is inhibited if there is 110 VAC input.  There is no way a properly functioning Inverter "Box" can allow both Shore (Generator) Power AND Inverter Power to exist at the same time.  The "Inverter" mush be connected to the batteries (and the batteries must be over a certain voltage (state of charge) for the "inverter" to be enabled, after loss of 110 VAC input to the "box".  There are many times when one may not want to consume battery power running 110 VAC "stuff" in the coach, particularly when in storage, or when boondocking.   Most manufacturers provide for turning of the "inverter" (the function, not the box) from a Remote Control Panel.   I would often use this capability on my old Dynasty, since I didn't want to power up all the 110 VAC "stuff" when boondocking.  I would only turn the inverter (again, the function, not the box) ON when I wanted that 110 VAC power (usually to watch TV).  Now anyone who has and Audio/Video (AV) equipment knows, the TV still consumes power even when turned "OFF" - it has to have a receiver powered up ready to receive the Remote Control command to turn "ON".  This is also true of DVD, Blue-ray, Satellite Receivers, A/V Surround Amplifiers and a host of other equipment.  In my current Exec, that amounts to about 8 - 13 Amps @ 12 VDC (amount of power required to power the devices in "OFF" - or really "Standby", as Tom wrote.  If I have no intentions of using that equipment, why consume the battery power.  And, there are many other devices that may be plugged in to outlets on the Inverter Output Circuits.  Sure, I could go around and unplug all the devices, but that is dumb when there is a switch that does just that.  It's usually labeled "Inverter" ON/OFF, and that refers the the function, not the box.  So yes, you can turn off the Inverter (function).  

Now Tom brings up some other points, that most won't care about.  First, the proper way to connect the Inverter "Box" is directly to the batteries, through a fuse.  It should NOT go through the 12 VDC Disconnect Switch.  This is done for a couple a reasons.  First, the Disconnect Switch is designated to disconnect LOADS.  The Inverter Box is only a LOAD if the Inverter function is turned ON.  If not, it is a Source, that being the Battery Charger.  The rationale is that the owner can turn off disconnect) all LOADS from the batteries, while at the same time allowing the Inverter Box "battery charger" function to maintain the batteries.  Most will do this when in storage.  If the Inverter Box when through the DC Disconnect Switch, there would be no way to maintain the batteries.  Another thing Tom mentioned is the Search Watts (sometimes labeled differently).  This is designed so that you can leave the inverter function "ON", in this case Enabled, but at the same time the actual heavy current circuitry of the inverter Function, would not engage until it sensed a specific (user specified) minimum amount - say 2 amps.  This is quite practical if you don't have tiny loads in your coach.  For example, the inverter function is enabled, drawing a tiny amount of power, until you turn on the microwave, or hair dryer, or coffee pot.  Once it sense that load, the Inverter Function Circuitry goes from a sort of "standby" to full operation.  My Victron 3000 Watt MultiPlus Invert states that in the search mode, but with no external power being consumed, it draws 3 Watts, but if it is "ON" but no external power, it draws 13 Watts, over 4 times as much power.  But, as Tom wrote, some small current devices, like routers, and even TVs and other Receivers in OFF (Standby) don't draw enough to keep the inverter function ON, and the inverter function falls back to Enabled (or Standby) and kills all the output from the inverter.  That's why most of us leave it always ON, not in Search.  But this Search feature only applies to the Inverter Function, which only is enabled when there is no Shore (Generator) Power. 

BOTTOM LINE:  You certainly CAN turn off the Inverter Function.  Many do so, and there are valid reasons for that.  I wonder how long some house batteries would last if you didn't turn OFF the inverter function while the coach is in storage (and not shore power).  There are power switches for the primary functions of the Inverter Box, namely the Battery Charger Function and the Inverter Function.  These might only be available from a Remote Console though.

When most of us talk about "turning off the Inverter" we mean the "Inverter Function", not the box.  You can not turn OFF the Box, other than to disconnect the inputs from it (and that should include both the 110 VAC AND the 12 VDC battery inputs).

  -Rick N.