Multiplex lights unexpectedly turn off - 2007 Patriot Thunder

[amphi_sc]

This has become a recent head scratcher for me.  House is multiplex with the wiring, cpu, and most multiplex boxes behind a door panel in the rear closet. (There are some more boxes behind the drop down TV and trim in the front cap.) Chassis is non multiplex. Very recently when I turn on any light circuit anywhere in the coach (living room or galley or bathroom or bedroom) it may stay on for 5 to 30 or maybe 60 seconds and then go off all by itself (lights go off as well as the switch indicator light).  It may stay in this unconventional state of lights going off for quite a few cycles.  But sometimes the lights will stay on like they should. I can't predict a pattern of how it gets into or out of this unexpected behavior.

Things I have tried:

* Cycling the salesman relays several times 

* Unplugged from shore power

* Cycling the house main battery cut off (BTW, that kills the lights, water pump, etc but does NOT take the Magnum inverter off line as residential fridge & microwave stay up)

* Removed & cleaned all house battery connections (which looked fine to begin with anyway)

* Cleaned the Big Boy internals

* Pulled and reset the many many 12v fuses in the rear closet multiplex distribution center

* Held the multiplex "master off" switch to change the default operation of the switch backlighting.

* Checked 12v voltage in the closet: 13.2v when on shore power.

I would think killing the juice from the batteries & no shore power should have caused a reboot of the multiplex system.

I have not yet loosened / wiggled all 12v supply connections & main 12v circuit breaker bus in the rear closet. Lights on the Blue or Yellow loop are experiencing the same turn off symptoms so I don't think it is loop specific.  The water pump and Aqua Hot electric switch "on indicator light" stays on as expected.  I have not tried to figure out how to access & unplug the backside of the switches, nor have I unplugged / replugged the multiplex board edge connectors nor inline wiring harness connectors in the rear closet.

What's the next thing to try?

I would think it is totally unrelated but will mention I did recently & correctly install a new chassis battery bank (4 Lifeline GPL 1400T same as original equipment had).

This is a very annoying situation as we are out and about for about the next 6 months. Things were working normally up through Feb when we stored the coach (plugged in) for about 3 months.

Al

[96 EVO]

Several years ago, I had one kitchen circuit do the same for a couple of weeks.

Unfortunately, I don't know what cured the issue.

[Tom Cherry]

11 minutes ago, amphi_sc said:

This has become a recent head scratcher for me.  House is multiplex with the wiring, cpu, and most multiplex boxes behind a door panel in the rear closet. (There are some more boxes behind the drop down TV and trim in the front cap.) Chassis is non multiplex. Very recently when I turn on any light circuit anywhere in the coach (living room or galley or bathroom or bedroom) it may stay on for 5 to 30 or maybe 60 seconds and then go off all by itself (lights go off as well as the switch indicator light).  It may stay in this unconventional state of lights going off for quite a few cycles.  But sometimes the lights will stay on like they should. I can't predict a pattern of how it gets into or out of this unexpected behavior.

Things I have tried:

* Cycling the salesman relays several times 

* Unplugged from shore power

* Cycling the house main battery cut off (BTW, that kills the lights, water pump, etc but does NOT take the Magnum inverter off line as residential fridge & microwave stay up)

* Removed & cleaned all house battery connections (which looked fine to begin with anyway)

* Cleaned the Big Boy internals

* Pulled and reset the many many 12v fuses in the rear closet multiplex distribution center

* Held the multiplex "master off" switch to change the default operation of the switch backlighting.

* Checked 12v voltage in the closet: 13.2v when on shore power.

I would think killing the juice from the batteries & no shore power should have caused a reboot of the multiplex system.

I have not yet loosened / wiggled all 12v supply connections & main 12v circuit breaker bus in the rear closet. Lights on the Blue or Yellow loop are experiencing the same turn off symptoms so I don't think it is loop specific.  The water pump and Aqua Hot electric switch "on indicator light" stays on as expected.  I have not tried to figure out how to access & unplug the backside of the switches, nor have I unplugged / replugged the multiplex board edge connectors nor inline wiring harness connectors in the rear closet.

What's the next thing to try?

I would think it is totally unrelated but will mention I did recently & correctly install a new chassis battery bank (4 Lifeline GPL 1400T same as original equipment had).

This is a very annoying situation as we are out and about for about the next 6 months. Things were working normally up through Feb when we stored the coach (plugged in) for about 3 months.

Al

Read some of the other posts.  Put Multiplex in the search box and select TOPICS from the side drop down.  My comments and take.

ONLY use the Salesman Switch or the Battery Disconnect House switch to “reset” the CPU.  Don’t ask how i know this….  When you have the salesman ON and House switch on and then reconnect or put jumpers back in, there is a momentary “arcing” or contacts are made and broken.  This will TOTALLY confuse the boot up sequence and confuse it even more.

I would do the do the following in this order.  Others with more hands on (I have the hybrid but the system is the same….my brain is the IPX where you have a CPU.

Turn OFF the Salesman’s switch.  Turn off the House Disconnect.  Let it sit for a few minutes….an hour will not hurt….but doing a reset quickly without allowing some stray current or charge in the CPU will cause issues.  OK….it is OFF.  Now, and this may be redundant, select a few random key pads and hold IN a button or two.  Do things like a fan or water pump.  Also the switches for a fluorescent light.  Hold in a few dimmer switches.  This bleeds off any stored charge….like “burping a baby”…LOL

NOW.  I would take this opportunity to tighten the main power lugs or cable connections on any Intellitec module (5 or 6) as well as the CPU.  I know what the modules are…I have them.  You’re on your own for the connection on the CPU….

OK…time’s up…turn back on the house bank.  Wait 5 minutes or so.  Probably not needed…but…then turn ON the Salesman switch.

Then report back here.  If it is fixed, but comes back, we have at least 3 or 4 real EXPERTS.  But my next step would be to get into the prints and find the mini circuit breaker(s) that (probably) feed the cables going to the CPU and Modules.  Once you know you have no loose connections, and that HAS been an issue, and you are getting a constant and UNINTERRUPTED 12VDC, the experts will have to walk you through more extensive troubleshooting.

there are MANY files on the multiplex…maybe one with an overview.  Do some research.

 

[Frank McElroy]

1 hour ago, amphi_sc said:

This has become a recent head scratcher for me.  House is multiplex with the wiring, cpu, and most multiplex boxes behind a door panel in the rear closet. (There are some more boxes behind the drop down TV and trim in the front cap.) Chassis is non multiplex. Very recently when I turn on any light circuit anywhere in the coach (living room or galley or bathroom or bedroom) it may stay on for 5 to 30 or maybe 60 seconds and then go off all by itself (lights go off as well as the switch indicator light).  It may stay in this unconventional state of lights going off for quite a few cycles.  But sometimes the lights will stay on like they should. I can't predict a pattern of how it gets into or out of this unexpected behavior.

Things I have tried:

* Cycling the salesman relays several times 

* Unplugged from shore power

* Cycling the house main battery cut off (BTW, that kills the lights, water pump, etc but does NOT take the Magnum inverter off line as residential fridge & microwave stay up)

* Removed & cleaned all house battery connections (which looked fine to begin with anyway)

* Cleaned the Big Boy internals

* Pulled and reset the many many 12v fuses in the rear closet multiplex distribution center

* Held the multiplex "master off" switch to change the default operation of the switch backlighting.

* Checked 12v voltage in the closet: 13.2v when on shore power.

I would think killing the juice from the batteries & no shore power should have caused a reboot of the multiplex system.

I have not yet loosened / wiggled all 12v supply connections & main 12v circuit breaker bus in the rear closet. Lights on the Blue or Yellow loop are experiencing the same turn off symptoms so I don't think it is loop specific.  The water pump and Aqua Hot electric switch "on indicator light" stays on as expected.  I have not tried to figure out how to access & unplug the backside of the switches, nor have I unplugged / replugged the multiplex board edge connectors nor inline wiring harness connectors in the rear closet.

What's the next thing to try?

I would think it is totally unrelated but will mention I did recently & correctly install a new chassis battery bank (4 Lifeline GPL 1400T same as original equipment had).

This is a very annoying situation as we are out and about for about the next 6 months. Things were working normally up through Feb when we stored the coach (plugged in) for about 3 months.

Al

If the whole system shuts down, I'd first check to see if you still have 12VDC going to the Intellitec system.  A salesman switch latching relay could be going bad.

[amphi_sc]

Hello Frank,

No, the whole system does not shut down.  For example, I turn on the living room ceiling lights up front, walk to the galley and turn on those overheads, walk to the bathroom and turn on those, walk back to the front and turn on the hall lights.  Wait a bit more and then the living room ceiling turns off,  little bit later the Galley, ... finally the hall lights turn off.  I can change my timing such that after the Living room turns off and while the galley is still on, I turn on the Hall lights then the LR back on.  Galley shut down then hall again and then Living room in sequence.  SOMETIMES they will stay on for many minutes to hours.  Sometimes I can quickly turn all the lights on in the coach and they'll stay on and after a few minutes I'll turn off the unneeded lights and the rest may or may not stay on.

Edited June 14, 2023 by amphi_sc

[amphi_sc]

Here's pictures of the closet showing the CPU, the closet wiring connectors to the harness, main 12v bus relays (has 13.2v there now as I'm plugged into shore using A/C.  When I unplug from shore it'll drop to 12.6.  Seems normal operation there), and the layout of the modules.  Living room & gallery for sure are on "B". Pulled and reset those fuses.  Replugged the edge connectors on "B".  I do have a very old can of Radio Shack TV tuner cleaner/ lubricant but have not tried that on any connections.

BTW, I have unplugged from shore, turned off both chassis and house disconnects, disconnected both sets of house connections from batteries to coach (I have four 4DL 12v Lifetime bats in two banks behind two separate doors and trays, so hot & ground from each tray feeds the house.). Solar disconnected too.  Let the coach sit for over an hour and reconnected everything but shore power.  Lights turned off automatically again.  Plugged. back into shore ... needed some A/C.  No change in lights.  LR turned off by itself.  Sat for a while pondering.  However water pump and AquaHot electric stays lit.  Re-entered coach and turn every single light on.  They ALL stayed on while I ate.  Turned all OFF except LR, and LR stayed on for a good half hour!  Turned LR off for a couple minutes, used BR lights for a couple minutes while getting into the safe, turned those off and went back to front turning the LR on and it automatically turned itself off within 10 seconds!  Aaaaarrrrgggg!

Edited June 14, 2023 by amphi_sc

[Frank McElroy]

One possibility is noise interference from a ballast transformer going bad.  Try pulling the fuses on all florescent light fixtures.

Have you had any work done where you connected a wire to a switch module ground wire?

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, amphi_sc said:

Here's pictures of the closet showing the CPU, the closet wiring connectors to the harness, main 12v bus relays (has 13.2v there now as I'm plugged into shore using A/C.  When I unplug from shore it'll drop to 12.6.  Seems normal operation there), and the layout of the modules.  Living room & gallery for sure are on "B". Pulled and reset those fuses.  Replugged the edge connectors on "B".  I do have a very old can of Radio Shack TV tuner cleaner/ lubricant but have not tried that on any connections.

BTW, I have unplugged from shore, turned off both chassis and house disconnects, disconnected both sets of house connections from batteries to coach (I have four 4DL 12v Lifetime bats in two banks behind two separate doors and trays, so hot & ground from each tray feeds the house.). Solar disconnected too.  Let the coach sit for over an hour and reconnected everything but shore power.  Lights turned off automatically again.  Plugged. back into shore ... needed some A/C.  No change in lights.  LR turned off by itself.  Sat for a while pondering.  However water pump and AquaHot electric stays lit.  Re-entered coach and turn every single light on.  They ALL stayed on while I ate.  Turned all OFF except LR, and LR stayed on for a good half hour!  Turned LR off for a couple minutes, used BR lights for a couple minutes while getting into the safe, turned those off and went back to front turning the LR on and it automatically turned itself off within 10 seconds!  Aaaaarrrrgggg!

Deep breathing time.  Lets take it one step at a time.

Frank, one of our gurus thinks the same thing I do. You have power problem.  But, to confirm you need to do some looking and trouble shooting.  Turning on everything and then it getting flaky is a sure sign.  The “not coming on” until you plugged into shore is also a dead giveaway.  No offense to your premium batteries as well as not knowing their condition, there are voltage problems.

SO….don’t depend or troubleshoot with DC only.  I still believe you need to understand and follow the correct procedures.  Leave SHORE plugged in. Salesman Switch OFF.  

NOW….look at the CPU.  There are 3 battery connections….as well as ground.  Remove each on.  Measure Battery to Ground inside the connector.  There should be ZERO volts.  If you still have voltage or even a “smidge”,  then the salesman’s switch or solenoid that it controls is bad or such….as what Frank said.  

Next.  Start at the large black cable that goes to terminal that has the red wires.  Tighten every nut with a deep well socket.  Do the same for the other ends of each red cable.  Tighten the main black cable buss.  

Look at the index or legend for each of the output modules.  Pull the fuses for EVERY fluorescent light.  If you are unsure….leave it on and then identify the fuses.  They (the fluorescents) need to have NO power. 

OK….you have disconnected the fuses.  You have checked the terminal nuts.  Go around and hold in several of the keypad dimming switches to totally discharge the CPU and the modules and the switches,  Wait 30 minutes.  NOW, with shore on…turn on the house batteries.  Leave it on for a few minutes.  What does your remote (inverter) monitor say.  Is it at Float charge?  It should be if the batteries are charging or will take a charge.  If it always reads Bulk or Absorb and pulls in excess of say 20 amps, you may have battery issues….but on shore, they are getting pumped full.  Leave things along for 10 minutes.  Then turn on the salesman switch.

Now….do NOT turn every light on.  Figure out which lights run off which output module.  Turn on all the lights on the first module (A?)….wait a while.  Turn them off.  Go to the next module.  Same deal….all on. Complete for each one.  Then start to load up each module’s lights.  Wait…

Finally, start with the fans.  Turn on each and wait…..then the pump.  

You need to know WHEN and with what load or which module is the issue.

MY SWAG is that you either have a bad salesman’s solenoid (pitted contacts) and when it heats up or the load gets higher, then there is a low voltage (high resistance connections results in higher current and LOWER Voltage) issue.  But WHERE.

If you follow the prints or chase the black cable….where is it HOOKED UP.  The loose or high connection could be there.  We have had Monaco’s that were wired incorrectly from the factory. One set of lights or fluorescents overloaded a module and that shut down the entire module.  This one acts like when you crank up and load it up, it may take a while to heat up and then drop then the voltage low enough to start making the CPU “flaky” or voltage starved.

I can only tell you that it takes a really sharp and experienced service technician to trouble shoot correct these. I have a great tech and he is an electronics and circuit whiz.  But he can “isolate” potential issues and the  will pull out a module and send it out for repair.  Not many techs understand what folks know here…how it a actually is programmed and works.  They are used to hard wired circuits and don’t “multiplex” well or at all.  Literally thousands of $$ have been spent shipping off modules or CPU or switch pads and tested and “repaired” and then it was a faulty voltage issue.  I you had a cable, the same size as the black one and could hook it up to the battery (positive) being charged….and could run it directly to the buss or where all the red wires are….and then fully load like you did, you might find that all is well.  Your issues seem to be voltage and/or load related….thus, insufficient voltage,

Try the above….then post the resilts.

 

 

[windsorbill06]

I had a similar issue a few years ago, but my lights would also randomly turn on AND off.    Traced it down to the control board for the Intellitec system.  From memory,  I have  model # 750, but I think it's printed on the boards itself, yours may be different.  I talked to M & M several times about it.  They are patient and will walk you through troubleshooting.  One of the first questions they ask is 'do you have florescent lights', but I had already changed mine out to LED, so that wasn't the problem.  Apparently florescent ballasts don't play well with the intellitec system.

After replacing that board, all was fine.

[amphi_sc]

51 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

One possibility is noise interference from a ballast transformer going bad.  Try pulling the fuses on all florescent light fixtures.

Have you had any work done where you connected a wire to a switch module ground wire?

No Florescent lights any more, no Halogens.  All switched to LEDs several years ago, guessing maybe 2015 or possibly 2016.  In any case, been all LED for several years with no more Florescent ballasts in the coach.

No electrical work performed since last known "no lights problem" in Feb, other than new chassis batteries. When disconnected from shore, Carbon pile load test on the house batteries show drop to 12.2 under the immediate load then bounce back to 12.6.  All four Lifeline 4DL's tested individually and consistent between the 4 Lifelines.

With 12v power off, I have loosened and re-tightened all circuit breakers feeding power to all intellitec modules in the closet, and the power connection on the module itself.  Boy, those nuts were tight! Also unplugged and re-plugged each boards edge connector and also the inline harness connectors at the top of the wiring closet.

Living room lights still automagically turn themselves off.

[amphi_sc]

I'm starting to think it is this module (B) that is flakey.  No number I can easily read as the factory put a nice large "B" stuck over important manufacturing labeling.  This module controls the lights we use most of the time.  At the moment it appears that if I turn on light circuits on 4 of that module outputs they will stay on.  And when I leave them on "long enough" (haven't figured out that magic time yet) then I can turn down to one light circuit.  When the lights have been off for a while, and I try just one or two of the light circuits they turn off after some varying xx seconds.  Maybe something on the board heats up and then allows the output to stay on.  Cold solder joint?  Since they will stay on if "warmed up long enough", I don't think it is an offboard power supply problem.  At the moment, the BR lights on another module are NOT acting up.

Being on the road moving every 2-3 days for the next 4 months could be tough to catch up to a new board.  I think a call to M & M is probably needed for a new module.  Is 419-965-2662 the correct or outdated number?

[pwhittle]

Do you have another one of the same modules? You could switch them over by setting the dip switches on each module. And see if the issue follows the module.

Paul

[Tom Cherry]

50 minutes ago, pwhittle said:

Do you have another one of the same modules? You could switch them over by setting the dip switches on each module. And see if the issue follows the module.

Paul

AL.  Paul and Frank are the experts on boards and programming and such.  They have also helped members so they have a great wealth of knowledge.  My recommendation was to isolate and eliminate.  If you have switched to LED’s, then that reduces the incandescent load. If you have eliminated the fluorescent tubes, that does more…as in a faulty or noisy ballast.  But we have also had factory goofs where Monaco put TOO many higher amperage draw lights on a module.  They were planned for “diversity”.  In other words, maybe not every light on at the same time.  There were two instances.  One was the ballasts went bad.  They drew too much current and that shut down that circuit and impacted the module.  The other was the designer put too many circuits on a module.  The fix was to move one circuit to another module.  

Paul’s suggestion is relatively easy to do.  The DIP switches are easy to see.  Find the same module and take a picture and write down the settings on each unplug each.  Change the DIP settings….obviously marking the original modules as to where they WERE and what the DIP settings for that location.  Then experiment.  If he issue follows that module…bingo….but if it doesn’t…..you know.  I personally would load up…..one at a time….each module and see if any others are impacted.  You may have done that, but you said you suspected one.  Experiment and confirm.  Swap it.  

As far as M&M goes….they are good.  But many of the modules are out of production.  Costs to repair or try to fix a single module have been reported at close to $500.  The swapping and isolating them confirms….otherwise just suspecting and shipping them off is a bit of a crap shoot.  You WILL need the exact part number.  Your prints will have that.  

Your call and your MH, but folks have paid shops a lot to have a supposed faulty board or component repaired…and then not got it fixed due to not doing the complete and proper troubleshooting….

Paul’s on the right track. Find out for certain if it is a module….then see about getting a repair…good luck.

[birdshill123]

When our Dynasty was less than a year old I eas having trouble with bathroom lights turning iff at random. I was in Elkhart and found a place just across the border in Michigan. 2 of the fellows had worked at  Monaco. H said that Monaco had too many lights on a 16 ga. Wire. Changed to a heavier wire and all was good. If everything is off and you only have one light on do you still have a problem? Anything beyond that I bow to Frank  and Mr. Whittle. True experts. 

[amphi_sc]

Hi Bruce.  Many years ago I switched all the Halogens out for all LEDs.  Florescent tubes in the bath gone too replaced with LED strips. So my overall current load is much less...better for boondocking too. BTW, if I turn on 4 light circuits in the front (ceiling, PS overhead, Living room overhead, and galley) then they stay on.  If I just turn on the ceiling or living room (or both of them) they will go out.  And they will go out in the relative time order they were turned on.  i.e if 2 light circuits turned on 5 seconds apart they will turn off 5 seconds apart.  For some reason, the 4 light circuits will make the lights on module B stay on.  So in my case, the more LED current load the better.

[Tom Cherry]

5 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

Hi Bruce.  Many years ago I switched all the Halogens out for all LEDs.  Florescent tubes in the bath gone too replaced with LED strips. So my overall current load is much less...better for boondocking too. BTW, if I turn on 4 light circuits in the front (ceiling, PS overhead, Living room overhead, and galley) then they stay on.  If I just turn on the ceiling or living room (or both of them) they will go out.  And they will go out in the relative time order they were turned on.  i.e if 2 light circuits turned on 5 seconds apart they will turn off 5 seconds apart.  For some reason, the 4 light circuits will make the lights on module B stay on.  So in my case, the more LED current load the better.

That is interesting.  FWIW….I don’t know if this is Bruce’s issue or not.  I do not pretend to be an LED expert, but i have some real life experience with many different home “forced” conversions like “why don’t my garage door opener work” and why don’t my 3 level tap to turn on lamp work?  In addition I am responsible for a massive (overkill) sanctuary lighting system at our church.  There are 36 individual incandescent circuits and they can be individually controlled or dimmed or programmed as a section as well as several different layers of master and submaster switches.  During a conversation with the original factory tech installer that was the programmer and project manager we discussed LED conversions.

YES….we must put in “dimmable” higher end LED.  BUT, that does not always work.  You would do the conversion and then hope (and pray…LOL) they all worked and run a reliability test.  The two large control cabinets emit a lot of heat and there are several individual sensors….much like what is in our Magnum inverters.  I have had to change the air flow and conditions inside the small room where they are housed to protect each of the expensive drivers or PCB that do the dimming.  LED would be wonderful to extend the life of them.

BUT TO YOUR POINT, the drivers for the incandescent circuits require a certain “load” or current flowing to work.  Were talking 36 circuits and each circuit has a 20 amp breaker.  The tech said that the issue is “NOT SUFFICIENT LOAD” on a circuit.  When the current draw is reduced below the minimum current load….BINGO..Disco City.  He has done several of these.  So, you either combine several circuits info one OR you build a plywood panel and put several “bulb” sockets on it.  You combine one bulb (incandescent) with each of the affected LED circuits.  That pulls a bit more current….all is well.

Our MH do not “dim” like a traditional system like our church where you reduce the voltage via a rheostat or a variable resistor.  They are Pulse Band Width “dimmed”.  So, the Intellitec modules send out a pulsed 12 VDC signal.  The shorter the pulse or time “ON”, the “dimmer” the incandescent or halogen bulb.  All i know past that is that we have had folks experimenting with various brands of replacement bulbs and not every “Amazon sells this” bulb will work and dim.

Thanks for sharing your observations.  My takeaway for you would be….are these lights on ONE module?  If so, you may have a module with an annoying little issue…which may or may not get worse.  So, i would look at that.  The other “fix”….swap out one of the LEDs in each circuit with the original halogen….that MIGHT eliminate it.

NOW…if you really want to find out, then follow Paul’s advice.  Find the same module (assuming all circuits are on one).  Then swap it with another one…..same PN.  All you have to do is reset the DIP switches.  Let us know if you decide to experiment and what happens.  If you find the problem follows the module, then you may want to pursue replacement or repair.  These modules are getting scarce….

Thanks again….

[Ivylog]

Instead of going through multiple steps to cut power (including solar) to the CPU to reboot the system, what about just unplugging all the plugs on the CPU?

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ivylog

[amphi_sc]

On 6/14/2023 at 8:42 PM, pwhittle said:

Do you have another one of the same modules? You could switch them over by setting the dip switches on each module. And see if the issue follows the module.

Paul

Paul, This is probably one of my next steps in trying to isolate the problem.  I am a little hesitant as for the next few weeks we are moving daily or have a full schedule on non moving days.  There appears to be three identical modules B, D, and F.  At the moment the functions on the other boards are working as designed and the way the modules are neatly & compactly packed into the wiring closet, it looks like a fair amount of work/time to remove 3 or 4 modules to be able to swap the suspect module and making careful notes on fuses to swap too.  At the moment I don't feel I can risk the time especially since something else maybe introduced.  The other modules control things like heat & bedroom lights & generator etc ... at least the way they are labeled.  While I was able to break loose all the power connections and re-tightened (they were really tight to begin with ) there were two screws on the cabinet's ground bus bar I could not break ... to tight ... square head driver fits well but would probably have to put a ratchet or impact driver on those two ground screws to break them free to "clean the grounds".  In the upper left of the engine bay is another ground bus bar but unable to break any of those screws loose to "clean" the grounds.  I may try a simple simple new temporary ground wire from the cabinet to the house battery ground.  Turning on more load to increase current draw may give a hint as to a bad ground that overcomes some resistance someplace with the higher load.  But I am a little time constrained at the moment and I can temporarily live with "too many lights on" to "keep the lights on" in the front areas.

12 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

Instead of going through multiple steps to cut power (including solar) to the CPU to reboot the system, what about just unplugging all the plugs on the CPU?

The house battery cut off appears to kill all power to the closet.  Removing solar was just part of the steps of insuring battery connections were cleaned even though they visually looked clean.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Ivylog said:

Instead of going through multiple steps to cut power (including solar) to the CPU to reboot the system, what about just unplugging all the plugs on the CPU?

Therein lies the problems.  The CPU needs all power inputs, as well as does the Modules to be “instant on” for a proper bootup.  Trust me on this from experience.  My system is simple and has only ONE power input to the IPX, which acts like the CPU, but is NOT programmable.  I stupidly reconnected and tightened the jumpers on the battery with the disconnect switch ON.  The erratic ON/OFF totally messed up the bootup and I multiple issues with keypads and such.  Shutting it down….waiting a few minutes was the trick.  I installed a “maintainer” plug on my C7 Vette battery for easy hookup.  I had to loosen the terminals and put in the ring connectors and retighten.  The first service I got a call..MAJOR ISSUE…the diagnostics on the electrical system almost went crazy.  The blips or temporary or momentarily connected “ON/OFF” had scared the tech.  I explained what I had done.  Don’t ever do that again, leave the battery terminals alone and when a new battery is installed….keep a maintainer on the circuit…. Fortunately all was well and they cleared out the OMG interrupts.  

SO…for the entire system  to boot up properly, all power to all main lugs or connections has to be simultaneously ON….  I know how it destroyed my simple hybrid…and would not think about individual plugs, staggered, to boot up the entire system….

I recently replaced the alarm systems batteries and you have to have the module exactly aligned to close the “tampering” switch.  Took a few tries to mate them up as there was no “alignment” arrows on the module and mount.  The alarm went crazy every time.  I had 10 email alerts as to “system tampering has been detected….hall smoke/heat alarm”….and had to go into the tool box to clear the false entries.

[thomasgibbens]

Several years ago I had issues with my multiplex system and I bought a can of NoOx electrical contact cleaned and one by one removed the multi pin connectors and sprayed them with it and then plugged them back in. My problems went away. Every once in a while, an issue will come back but is very seldom. 
Tom Gibbens

’15 Dynasty 

[Tom Cherry]

31 minutes ago, thomasgibbens said:

Several years ago I had issues with my multiplex system and I bought a can of NoOx electrical contact cleaned and one by one removed the multi pin connectors and sprayed them with it and then plugged them back in. My problems went away. Every once in a while, an issue will come back but is very seldom. 
Tom Gibbens

’15 Dynasty 

Thanks.  However there is a perfunctory WARNING HERE.  Make sure that you use the mildest and most tame ELECTRONIC cleaner….not the common Electrical Contact cleaner or the high potency Electric Motor cleaner.  Many folks here know that’s a NO NO from personal experience.  I used a common brand of electrical cleaner and I destroyed several male cat 5 connectors. I went away for a few minutes and when I came back, they were cracked and melted.  YES…I learned the hard way and several attested to thinking the stronger the better.  I would actually consider a Q-Tip or cotton ball or whatever and maybe a small cup and dipping the male ends and having a can of compressed air and blowing the alcohol off….  I do that for the phone jacks my AC system…

[thomasgibbens]

I rechecked my can and it is called DeoxIT D5, it says it dissolves corrosion, improves contacts, and protects surfaces. It does say it is safe on plastics. I will check any new cans I buy to make sure they are safe on plastic surfaces. Thanks for the info. 
Tom Gibbens

’15 Dynasty 

[Tom Cherry]

I read that can.  I would personally not use it on delicate electronics.  There are so many claims on it in Amazon that God only knows what kind of solvents or chemicals are inside it.  There are also forty ‘leven different types of plastic.  Something like starter motor solenoid….probably OK.  Pure electronic cleaner does not, usually have or need any “removes corrosion” components.

It it works for you and you trust it fine.  I am skeptical and would not recommend it for the MPX or any other irreplaceable device….when there are many specifically designed for that application….

That is why i posted the caveat….no offense intended….except many of us old timers have used potent sprays.  I know one person that melted a radio using Disc Brake cleaner….and NO, it were NOT me…

Thanks

[amphi_sc]

 

I'm still having this problem of lights turning off by themselves, on multiple boards as shown in this video.  You can see the LED on board B come on when living room overhead turned on but goes almost immediately off.  Turning it back on and it stays on until the end of the video when it turns off by itself again.  You can also watch other LEDs go off by themselves after those corresponding lights are turned on. However when I turn a lot of them on at once I can get them to stay on.  Anymore ideas to try?

[Tom Cherry]

10 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

 

I'm still having this problem of lights turning off by themselves, on multiple boards as shown in this video.  You can see the LED on board B come on when living room overhead turned on but goes almost immediately off.  Turning it back on and it stays on until the end of the video when it turns off by itself again.  You can also watch other LEDs go off by themselves after those corresponding lights are turned on. However when I turn a lot of them on at once I can get them to stay on.  Anymore ideas to try?

At the risk of being redundant…..but I read and reread your posts….and some might say overkill….I’d approach it this way.

Disconnect the solar.  Use the Salesman switch to shut off all power. I Think you have TWO solenoid.  They are latching. Obviously NO shore or genny.

Now the next is “your call”.  The proper way, or in my experience….leave power off for at least an hour.  I am not being critical of what you have done, but, MY experience and from what others have posted.  Cycling on & off, repeatedly, the salesman switch can get the CPU and/or the Modules into a real funk.  They need time to dissipate any stray, stored charge and you really need a clean reboot.  So here are some must do and options….  

I wrote this and it is a bit out of sequence and it will take some mega editing….Turn off all MPX circuits…  Power down the salesman switches.  NO SHORE - GENNY.  Turn off disconnects.  Unhook both battery banks.

Trace the ground from the boxes to the ground stud.  Loosen slightly…still need some tension or torque on the nut.  Rotate the cable terminals side to side to rub or abrade each other…and to the chassis.  Or pull apart.  Steel wool or emery paper the frame and the terminals.  Put back together.

Chase or trace the positive…clean every bolted or nutted connection.  Look at prints and chase the ground from the CPU closet…to where it connects to,the frame or a ground buss.  Clean the ground on the CPU/Mutiplex modules…the main incoming.  Verify the connections on the circuit breakers that feed the CPU & Modules.

One way…forget the solar…until you troubleshoot this. You  turned OFF every MPX circuit….you turned OFF Salesman switch.  Disconnects OFF.  Pulled both positive and negative on each bank.  Pull the connectors or the multiple wire connections off the CPU and all 5(# I think) modules.  Let it sit a few hours.  Then you can do the reverse and wait a few minutes between each step.  Start reconnecting and thoroughly reseating the connectors…check or snug as needed…make sure all multiple pin connections  are really seated.  Use a good jumper…a piece of #12 bare or insulated with the ends exposed.  Ground out the main stud positive to the modules and the power to to the CPU….hold for a minute or two on each one.  This is a PC techs “now it is really bad” solution.  They pull off every cable in the back or a computer….hold ON the power button, unplugged of course or remove the battery from a laptop and hold on the power.  Same deal for resetting the myriad of electronics on a car.  You pull the negstive….hold on the horn….clean out every little stored charge that is upsetting the chips and such….it works….

THESE TWO STEPS ARE OPTIONAL….my thoughts….

Ground.  Get a 120 replacement 3 wire plug from Ace or such…a heavy duty one.  Get a lenght of #12 stranded wire.  Hook to the GROUND PIN….plug it in to an outlet…or if you trip the genny cb, you can run it directly from the ground buss in the main panel.  The other end goes directly to the main ground in the MPX area…

BUY two NAPA jumpers..  781144.  Jumper the two house solenoids.

Hook up batteries.  Turn on disconnects….the house or salesman solenoids are jumpered.  Wait a few minutes.  Start to test the MPX system….

it you don’t do the ground and jumpering…..repeat and do them.

This is a perfect “clean boot”.  If you still have issues….assuming the CPU is OK, then time to isolate.  

I ain’t a novice.  I don’t have the full CPU MPX.  But either you have a CPU issue….and it never got really shutdown and therein lurks gremlins….or the same for the modules.  Trying to hunt and peck and randomly trouble shoot the system without a major shut down and let the stored charges dissipate 

OK….the next is to write down every circuit that is flaky….and list the module and circuit number….use a spreadsheet.  Then exactly what makes it flaky…as in, which circuit…again module alpha and circuit number.  That way, you isolate which module is flaky or which module ALWAYS makes the other go batty….