Nevercold (Norcold 1200) not working properly. Seaking guidance

[1nolaguy]

Our 18 year old Nevercold is not working. I know the refrigerator door gaskets need replacement but also , while the freezer gets cold the fins in the refrigerator does not. Since the freezer (both sides) will freeze with temperatures dropping even after about 1 Hr the chilling portion (back furnace and ammonia re-circulation) seems to work fine the problem is something else. This unit is the original in our 2005 Safari so I do not want to spend a bunch on trying to put it back in service. If repair is going to cost more than $200-300 I would rather put that toward a new unit. If replacing it will likely be a 12v system. Thought about standard residential but the lack of efficiency vs 12v is leading me that direction if I go new. ANy help diagnosing this would be helpful.

[birdshill123]

There is no comparison of fridge efficiency  ,design,capacity and more when comparing 110 vs anything else. You have to look long and hard for anyone that would like to get rid of a residential fridge.

[1nolaguy]

before anyone replies, I did a quick check on line and 12v refrigerators and for upright units (10-16 cf) the prices have doubled since last year in which case it may justify buying more batteries and use our inverter to run 110v unit.

[K9 Exec]

Hello 1nolaguy, I can say the last few I have repaired have had the mastic just totally separate due to age or not making contact, whatsoever which would not allow the unit to cool. I would say if you are in repair mode and have an infrared thermometer or FLIR camera, check the left and right freezer temp as well as fridge, and let us know what you are getting for temps. That will tell me a lot, at that point I can guide you in a direction. 

Door seals: I can also say without seeing it, if you can get a piece of paper and slide it around the door without tearing it- they are bad. The slightest seal not making contact with the fridge body will allow most of your cold out, which at that point you are playing catchup, and if you weren't cold to begin with- its a losing battle and you are chasing your tail my friend. The "big fridge" lobby doesn't sell the seals cheap and we usually have to end up getting new doors, just to get the seals, and that is never worth it in my book. 

My $.02 worth: ditch the never cold! I had good luck with my 1200 in my last coach, good seals, etc- but smart money is on a replacement.

Hope to hear back sir, best of luck!

[Dr4Film]

As I have stated many times on this forum,  I would not spend another red penny or my valuable time on repairing a NotSoCold, NeverCold or whatever else you want to call the piece of junk.

Up to you, JMHO.

[timaz996]

As K9 Exec said "the mastic just totally separate due to age or not making contact"

[1nolaguy]

K9 Exec thanks. I believe you and Dr4Film have me convinced. Now I need to convince my wife.

I did the "dollar bill" test around the doors and although there is a little resistance it is not consistant. As you noted Norcold does not sell replacement gaskets so they need to be custom made or you buy new doors. I will check when next at the RV the temps with a non-contact Thermometer and advise.

I have been hesitant in the replacements as the hole is likely going to require serious modification. I have no issue with taking out the 1X4 but I am also going to have to drop the floor and below the fridge is the return for one of the heaters. That is my concern. Has anyone else here had to deal with this and if so what did you find as the best approach?

 

[cbr046]

Instead of making the floor lower has anyone gone "up" and made an indention in the ceiling for the fridge and doors?  Yes, there are HVAC ducts up there to consider, but typically only need an inch or so.

Thinking outside the box . . . .

- bob

[Reka52]

I have put in a fridgeair 1465 in our coach, the height was fine no adjustment the width was 7 “ narrow and after lining the wall with Luan plywood a nice broom closet was left and just had to install a door made from an oak board was a very simple fix and the fridge is quite efficient on electricity consumption 

[K9 Exec]

It is not the worst mod in the world to do. I have to go through my old phone and hard drive to retrieve some pics, but would gladly send you the step by step instructions (I took pics for everything from the removal to the replacement, the base frame, etc) with the channel that was used, some bolts, sweat equity, and some trim. The Norcold 1200 was replaced with a samsung 18 or 20 Cu Ft. if memory recalls. Bracing is easy enough, unless you want to go with a full size 24-25 Cu Ft fridge, you won't have any issues. Furnace and ducting can stay. Please let us know the temps when you do get back out there, I will gladly reply as soon as you post. 

[Tom Cherry]

As we Moderators read about every post and follow the general, as well as sometimes the technical content….The conversion to a Residential is the most rewarding and “WHY DID I WAIT SO LONG”.  Many old timers going back to the mid 2000’s thought the “Amish” conversion was the only way to go.  We have many success stories….but way too many…”wasted my time and money” comments.  The failures are far greater than in residential.  There are also the “12 VDC” conversions.  Again a lot of folks are happy, but many have realized the inefficiency or the “pitfalls”.

I had a Norcold in a 2004 upper end Winnebago.  The door seals failed (dinged and drove my wife batty).  We traded it in on the Camelot, but the 4X as expensive Dometic 1402 was a “chilly, but not COLD” unit.  I added fans and sealed and taped and changed cooling (exhaust fans) sensors to improve it.  OK…it worked…but it did NOT have the cooling capacity of the basis Samsung RF 18.  If DW bought a lot of groceries and cold stuff, she had to be careful as putting in a lot of ambient drinks or such would drive the temps close to the mid 40’s and the freezer would suffer….and things were partially thawed.

My conversion was simple.  There are countless threads on what to do. It matters not whether you buy a Samsung or other brands….assuming they will fit.  What matters is getting air circulation around the unit….removing the insulation from the walls as you do NOT need it….and leaving it in will seriously jeopardize your installation….as well as sealing and insulating the top or roof access and the lower access as camping in sub 30 deg F will shut down a res refer….as well as developing a double stick mounting system as you do NOT drill holes in the cabinet or sides.  

there is a current thread on $$$ WASTED….AMISH DIED.  And then…..lets not even talk about how one makes the door gaskets work and they are not available….but there may be a 3rd party…but sketchy info as well as reviews….did I mention the fact that most of the Amish conversions also had new, aftermarket, NON Norcold boards installed….and the concerns over fires and failures.

Search and read here….

[WayneC]

I am doing the same,just waiting for the perfect opportunity to tear out the old fridge,while waiting I purchased a V Free fridge freezer chest from Vitrifrigo, going to be a year in July, I am going to purchase the full size fridge to replace the Norcold, they are expensive, I want the 12 volt/electric options, used on water crafts, low voltage consumption, dimensions are correct.

Wayne 

1999 Signature ceaser 

[jacwjames]

My Norcold failed, one of the pipes burst below and I had yellow dust all over underneath, no fire though. 

My Norcold never worked great, hard to keep fridge temps at ~40F.  Kept remote temp monitor in fridge and when temps started to climb we'd move ice blocks from freezer to fridge.  No telling how much $$ was wasted in spoiled food.   To the get the Norcold out of the coach we had to remove the cooling unit from the back, it appeared the install was marginal, the cooling plates were not mated tight , there was a large gap caused by excessive caulk.  No wonder it didn't cool. 

I had already purchased a Samsung RF18 to install, not easy as I had the furnace underneath and needed all the headroom I could get.  Got it done though and am very satisfied.  I do quite a bit of boon docking and find I have to run the generator a little more the before, ~1.5 hours usually in the evening before going to be.  Not a deal breaker for me. 

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

9 hours ago, Reka52 said:

I have put in a fridgeair 1465 in our coach, the height was fine no adjustment the width was 7 “ narrow and after lining the wall with Luan plywood a nice broom closet was left and just had to install a door made from an oak board was a very simple fix and the fridge is quite efficient on electricity consumption 

This is what I did. The fridge is only 10 CF, but it actually has the same storage space as the 12 CF Norcold. It’s very efficient and will work down to below freezing and we’ll over 100 degrees. 

[CAT Stephen]

12 hours ago, 1nolaguy said:

Our 18 year old Nevercold is not working. I know the refrigerator door gaskets need replacement but also , while the freezer gets cold the fins in the refrigerator does not. Since the freezer (both sides) will freeze with temperatures dropping even after about 1 Hr the chilling portion (back furnace and ammonia re-circulation) seems to work fine the problem is something else. This unit is the original in our 2005 Safari so I do not want to spend a bunch on trying to put it back in service. If repair is going to cost more than $200-300 I would rather put that toward a new unit. If replacing it will likely be a 12v system. Thought about standard residential but the lack of efficiency vs 12v is leading me that direction if I go new. ANy help diagnosing this would be helpful.

How long, in hours, have you been running the refrigerator?  Absorption refrigerators take ~48 hours to cool down.

[1nolaguy]

4 hours ago, dennis.mcdonaugh said:

This is what I did. The fridge is only 10 CF, but it actually has the same storage space as the 12 CF Norcold. It’s very efficient and will work down to below freezing and we’ll over 100 degrees. 

Thanks Denis. It appears your model may have been replace by the Frigidaire  FFHT1425VV which is shown are 13.9 cf. The dimensions are

Height (in): 60 1/2"

Width (in): 27 5/8"

Depth (in): 29 3/8"

So it will sit a bit out from the wall. I will need to check if I have room to open the doors as our fridge is located in a "hall" that is fixed width and not on a slide. If it fits this seems like a good alternative.

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

15 minutes ago, 1nolaguy said:

Thanks Denis. It appears your model may have been replace by the Frigidaire  FFHT1425VV which is shown are 13.9 cf. The dimensions are

Height (in): 60 1/2"

Width (in): 27 5/8"

Depth (in): 29 3/8"

So it will sit a bit out from the wall. I will need to check if I have room to open the doors as our fridge is located in a "hall" that is fixed width and not on a slide. If it fits this seems like a good alternative.

Its a little shorter so I made a vent for the top to aid efficiency. We just use a piece of velcro to hold the door closed when moving.

Edited June 15, 2023 by dennis.mcdonaugh

[1nolaguy]

Thanks for the pic. It really helps visualize how it fits.

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

21 minutes ago, 1nolaguy said:

Thanks for the pic. It really helps visualize how it fits.

There’s a 7” wide broom closet on the right too. 

[1nolaguy]

15 hours ago, jacwjames said:

My Norcold failed, one of the pipes burst below and I had yellow dust all over underneath, no fire though. 

My Norcold never worked great, hard to keep fridge temps at ~40F.  Kept remote temp monitor in fridge and when temps started to climb we'd move ice blocks from freezer to fridge.  No telling how much $$ was wasted in spoiled food.   To the get the Norcold out of the coach we had to remove the cooling unit from the back, it appeared the install was marginal, the cooling plates were not mated tight , there was a large gap caused by excessive caulk.  No wonder it didn't cool. 

I had already purchased a Samsung RF18 to install, not easy as I had the furnace underneath and needed all the headroom I could get.  Got it done though and am very satisfied.  I do quite a bit of boon docking and find I have to run the generator a little more the before, ~1.5 hours usually in the evening before going to be.  Not a deal breaker for me. 

How many AHr or battery do you have? We currently have 200 AHr (12v) of LiFePO4 but I am thinking of adding another 400 AHr if I add a AC residential fridge. Since the Fridgidare was posted above I am thinking of going that route as oppose to the RF18. It is only 14cf but will fit in the existing hole with no modifications needed except to close down the opening (broom closet a bonus). By my calculation I can run about a minimum of 6 hours with current batteries if I do not run anything else. Since we are not full time and usually stay with hook ups  I think 600 AHr will give us a full 24 hrs between needing to run the gen.

[K9 Exec]

That model (FFHT1425VV) draws approx. 3 amps and if the compressor runs 100% of the time, you would be at 30 amps dc x 24 hrs = 720. But that's not real world, your coach will be air conditioned, so that acts on your behalf to lower the cycle times. If that is anything like the Samsung as far as insulation goes, figure 50% duty cycle, or 360 amps. 600 AH of Lithium would be more than sufficient. I am pretty sure you will be pleasantly surprised with this upgrade, it will make a huge difference for you.

[1nolaguy]

Tom Cherry, Thanks for your detailed post above (as a moderator). If your Norcold is still under warranty it may make sense to "fix it". Our unit is 18+ years old being OEM in our 2005 Cheetah. Even if I replaced the cooling unit with an Amish conversion I still have an 18 year old fridge, just with an expensive cooling unit. I started out saying I was looking ar a 12v version but when last I looked at Everchill 16 cf 4 door model it was about $1400. Now that same unit is around $2400. It no longer makes sense. I was looking at either the RF18 or a 16 cf 4 door model by Haeir (looks like Everchill but is 120v). It is available through Lowes and HD for $1000+. That unit , with a height of 71" would require significant carpentry but I was about ready to do it. Denis McDonaugh and Rika52 mentioned the Frigidare model (also available through HD & L @ about $600). It will go in the existing hole with only modification carpentry to close off the hole. Although it is 2-4cf smaller I think that will work for us. Note, we also have a 12v/120v portable chest fridge/freezer that we use for drinks and overflow so a 14ft will suit us fine.

You did comment about insulation removable and sealing roof vent and back vent. Is there insulation in the side walls? This really serves no purpose in our floor plan as both left and right walls remain inside conditioned air space. Insulation on the outside wall does make sense to me although I will likely replace FG with foil face foam board as we are in the south and the outside wall can get well over 120 degF in the summer. I understand closing the exterior vents as long as there is enough air circulation around the box to allow heat exchange. Lastly, you mentioned double tape system. I am a bit confused by this. I was planning to use screws and strapping/ L-brackets to secure the fridge to the floor/ceiling. Is there a better double stick tape systems that is better practice?

25 minutes ago, K9 Exec said:

That model (FFHT1425VV) draws approx. 3 amps and if the compressor runs 100% of the time, you would be at 30 amps dc x 24 hrs = 720. But that's not real world, your coach will be air conditioned, so that acts on your behalf to lower the cycle times. If that is anything like the Samsung as far as insulation goes, figure 50% duty cycle, or 360 amps. 600 AH of Lithium would be more than sufficient. I am pretty sure you will be pleasantly surprised with this upgrade, it will make a huge difference for you.

Thanks K9. Yep that is what I was thinking. My calc was they same as your based on 100% run time but reality is closer to 50% of that. I plan to add a 400 Amp 12 server rack battery (LLG4), which should give us more than enough. I may also add some solar if needed. As noted we are generally on shore power when not in transit but having spent a few days on the side of the road waiting for a tow and occational knights at Harvest Host, Walmart and Cracker Barrel I want some buffer should I need it.

[K9 Exec]

Yes sir, I am glad you're going that route. Norcold's scare me... I preach solar all the time. You can really negate your current draw with solar input, with relatively low cost. Solar panels as well as solar charge controllers have come along way and have dropped in price with competition. Please post pics if you are able to, we all love to see the upgrades. I went through one laptop hard drive today with no luck, but will send you the pics if I can find them in the next few day. 

[Tom Cherry]

16 minutes ago, 1nolaguy said:

Tom Cherry, Thanks for your detailed post above (as a moderator). If your Norcold is still under warranty it may make sense to "fix it". Our unit is 18+ years old being OEM in our 2005 Cheetah. Even if I replaced the cooling unit with an Amish conversion I still have an 18 year old fridge, just with an expensive cooling unit. I started out saying I was looking ar a 12v version but when last I looked at Everchill 16 cf 4 door model it was about $1400. Now that same unit is around $2400. It no longer makes sense. I was looking at either the RF18 or a 16 cf 4 door model by Haeir (looks like Everchill but is 120v). It is available through Lowes and HD for $1000+. That unit , with a height of 71" would require significant carpentry but I was about ready to do it. Denis McDonaugh and Rika52 mentioned the Frigidare model (also available through HD & L @ about $600). It will go in the existing hole with only modification carpentry to close off the hole. Although it is 2-4cf smaller I think that will work for us. Note, we also have a 12v/120v portable chest fridge/freezer that we use for drinks and overflow so a 14ft will suit us fine.

You did comment about insulation removable and sealing roof vent and back vent. Is there insulation in the side walls? This really serves no purpose in our floor plan as both left and right walls remain inside conditioned air space. Insulation on the outside wall does make sense to me although I will likely replace FG with foil face foam board as we are in the south and the outside wall can get well over 120 degF in the summer. I understand closing the exterior vents as long as there is enough air circulation around the box to allow heat exchange. Lastly, you mentioned double tape system. I am a bit confused by this. I was planning to use screws and strapping/ L-brackets to secure the fridge to the floor/ceiling. Is there a better double stick tape systems that is better practice?

Thanks K9. Yep that is what I was thinking. My calc was they same as your based on 100% run time but reality is closer to 50% of that. I plan to add a 400 Amp 12 server rack battery (LLG4), which should give us more than enough. I may also add some solar if needed. As noted we are generally on shore power when not in transit but having spent a few days on the side of the road waiting for a tow and occational knights at Harvest Host, Walmart and Cracker Barrel I want some buffer should I need it.

Our Norcold may be in the happy hunting ground.  We traded off the 2004 Adventurer with the Norcold in 2009.  I replaced the OEM Dometic circa 2016 and said WHY DID I WAIT SO LONG?

One at a time.  Never meant to imply that you did anything to the interior walls on the sides, except rip off any insulation.  I’ve been told that Monaco MAY have insulated the Norcold or Dometic boxes.  Mine was batt insulation tacked or glued to each side wall.  Take it ALL out for proper air circulation.  Now, the rationale for insulation for the cover…as well as the louvers in my frames is to lay it on or in.  You want to meet or exceed the R value of the rear or outside wall.  I used cut (serrated knife) pieces of the high R value styrofoam that Lowes sells to insulate a garage door.  I put a layer of a high R value (think HVAC foam tape) over the louver openings or slots in the cover.  I then cut and shaped the styrofoam to fit (two thicknesses) inside those long louvers….then a layer of thick high R Value tape on the backside….covered by thick HVAC foil tape.  I used that on the side sections.  I repeated that for the side louvers.  I KNOW this exceed the Monaco R values.  The top roof vents are easier…just load and stuff in fiberglass insulation.

My outside wall has the obvious voids or cracks when you install it…but that is no bid deal.  The more dead air space you have around the Res Refer, the better so you get cooling air circulation.

I had some 12 gauge SS that I bent in a vise (wish I had a press brake) so there was maybe 2” sticking up and a 8 X 6 surface area on the bottom.  Think a crazy piece of angle iron….but it is sheet SS.  The installer out a 2 X 2 firing strip vertically on one wall…to match an existing one on the other side wall.  I had him cut a 2 X  2 oak board the same length as the “width” of the side walls.  Then he sat the refer in place.  From the back, he pushed that 2 X 2 along the top until it stopped against the two vertical pieces….one on each side.  That board is what keeps the refrigerator from moving forward.  OK….to attach the board to refrigerator, he pushed the 6 X 8 sections, 2 of them, under the board.  Then marked the spot.  I had already put strips of 3M VHB double stick tape on the bottom of the pads.  He pulled off the backing and then attached the two SS 90 deg bend plates to the top.  I had cut the vertical piece so that the refrigerator would slide OUT the front and the vertical section or the part that stuck up was shorter than the top wooden piece or the cabinet.  We slid it in place.  He put in the 2 X 2 board and then screwed the brackets to it.  The refrigerator can’t move forward.  The  2 X 2 board is tight on each side and jammed against the 2 vertical firring  strips.  That also locks it in so it will not move side to side.  Some custom blocks in the rear keep it from moving back,  it is solid….but NO screws into the cabinet 

I have a shelf that the .dometic sat on.  He cut it back so that when the refrigerator was jammed forward, the piece  of the shelf also kept it from moving backwards.  I DID have to use a 3 “ hole saw and cut out most of the shelf for better air circulation.  Hind sight is 20-20.  I used “L” brackets….but mine were SS and about 8” wide and 6” long on the bottom….and the other side of the L was les than 2”.  So, i tsped the “L” brackets to the top and screwed them to the cross piece tht centered it and also kept it from moving forward.  Solid as a rock today…

[Paul J A]

Check out Fisher Paykel. Great products.