Robert92867 Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 The breakaway torque for the head bolts was between 45-80#. Had I re-torqued the head bolts at 50,000 miles I probably would still be driving it today. IMG_5444.MOV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidL Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 One of the cleaner motor bay pics. Much nicer to work on stuff. Did you straightedge measure the block deck and head? All straight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Nice job. Is retorquing the headbolts listed as maintenance for your engine? Never crossed my mind at just over 200k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert92867 Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 I have not cleaned up the surfaces yet. I did buy the 1000mm straight edge, my guess is the exhaust manifold surface will fail the the deflection test and I will end up getting the head and exh. manifold surface milled. The block? Well I would really be shocked if that big piece of cast iron is warped. Ivan, retorqing head bolts is not listed as maintenance. I am just surprised the bolts were so loose. One more looming problem, the erosion of the exhaust flange adapter to the Pacbrake looks critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito.a Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 I'd recommend you replace the head bolts. Sounds like the originals stretched. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert92867 Posted August 9, 2023 Author Share Posted August 9, 2023 Never thought of that. I will look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidL Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Robert92867 said: Never thought of that. I will look into it. It is very common that headbolts are replaced and not reused. Do check if sealant, oil or dry is how the bolts go back in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bekec1 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) Might suggest installing ARP head studs. Commonly used as upgrade in engines during overhaul and when upgrading horsepower. https://arp-bolts.com/kits/arpkit-detail.php?RecordID=1627 instructions supplied with kit and available on ARP site. Edited August 9, 2023 by bekec1 wrong link 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBRODDER Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 8 hours ago, bekec1 said: Might suggest installing ARP head studs. Commonly used as upgrade in engines during overhaul and when upgrading horsepower. https://arp-bolts.com/kits/arpkit-detail.php?RecordID=1627 instructions supplied with kit and available on ARP site. I am curious if studding the block will allow for room to get the head back on while the engine is still in the chassis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl_racing427 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 7 hours ago, RBRODDER said: I am curious if studding the block will allow for room to get the head back on while the engine is still in the chassis? That's a good point. I know it would have been a problem with my C8.3. On 8/8/2023 at 6:02 PM, Robert92867 said: The breakaway torque for the head bolts was between 45-80#. Had I re-torqued the head bolts at 50,000 miles I probably would still be driving it today. IMG_5444.MOV I don't know of a way to retorque torque + angle head bolts. If they've lost tension, either the bolts have stretched, the gasket has compressed, or the threads have pulled. I'd definitely recommend replacing the bolts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian J Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 OEM head bolts will stretch. They are throw away after one use. As suggested ARP head bolts/studs is the way to go. They make them in different tensile strengths. They can be quite expensive. Diesel engines have a tendency to lift the heads under loads blowing the head gasket. That's where higher tensile strength bolts/studs are must. The other critical issue is clean threads in the block with the proper lube. ARP makes an excellent lube to go with bolts/studs. The only other suggestion I have is to use a torque wrench with an angle torque measurement. This assures proper torque. A retorque should be done, if reaching the bolts/studs requires a lot of dissambly after running, just let them rest for a day then retorque before assembly. Short of having a stud stretcher, this is best way. In my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bekec1 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 the ARP studs can be installed after head is put in place, same as original head bolts would be installed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl_racing427 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 13 hours ago, Brian J said: OEM head bolts will stretch. They are throw away after one use. As suggested ARP head bolts/studs is the way to go. They make them in different tensile strengths. They can be quite expensive. Diesel engines have a tendency to lift the heads under loads blowing the head gasket. That's where higher tensile strength bolts/studs are must. The other critical issue is clean threads in the block with the proper lube. ARP makes an excellent lube to go with bolts/studs. The only other suggestion I have is to use a torque wrench with an angle torque measurement. This assures proper torque. A retorque should be done, if reaching the bolts/studs requires a lot of dissambly after running, just let them rest for a day then retorque before assembly. Short of having a stud stretcher, this is best way. In my experience. Re: Reusing bolts. My Cummins C-series 8.3 liter head gasket came with a gauge to measure the free length of the head bolts. There was actually a quite generous amount of stretch that still allowed reusing the bolts. All mine measured very close to the original unstretched length, so I reused them and have had no problems. I suspect my engine has substantially larger head bolts than the little B-Series, so that could be the reason for recommending replacing bolts every time on the small engines. I've used ARP fasteners in my high performance engines for decades, and never had a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert92867 Posted August 10, 2023 Author Share Posted August 10, 2023 On 8/9/2023 at 1:33 PM, RBRODDER said: I am curious if studding the block will allow for room to get the head back on while the engine is still in the chassis? There is enough room to lift the head off a set of studs, but not the way I rigged it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert92867 Posted August 11, 2023 Author Share Posted August 11, 2023 Another day of head cleaning, and I will be ready to put a straight edge across it. I don't know what that head weighs, more than 200# 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert92867 Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 Finally got my cylinder head back, 3 thousands cut to clean it up. My machinest had some difficulty setting up his mill to cut the exhaust surface. $325 special Southern California price... What's really funny is the name of the shop SAME DAY CYLINDER HEAD SERVICE. Well, I guess it was same day... I put it in on a TUESDAY, 3 weeks later, got it out on a TUESDAY. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Robert92867 said: What's really funny is the name of the shop SAME DAY CYLINDER HEAD SERVICE. Well, I guess it was same day... I put it in on a TUESDAY, 3 weeks later, got it out on a TUESDAY. In a funny way, it makes sense, not very much sense though if you're the waiting customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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