2007 Endeavor Hydraulic Fluid Mysteries - FINAL RESOLUTION

[Guest Ray Davis]

3 hours ago, Matt Lavender said:

Any idea what filter is inside the canister?  Mine looks like that one.

Thanks

That's not an actual picture of mine I borrowed it to point out the clamp.  My canister holds 3 filters but I can't recall the part number.  

Maybe someone will come up with it or it's probably in the parts list.

[Matt Lavender]

I'll check the parts list, thanks.

[jacwjames]

Here is my tank with the 3 stacked filters. 

 

1 Steering Reservoir.pdf

[Matt Lavender]

My bad, I thought mine was like yours.  I just got to mine and took some pictures of the reservoir and the separate spin on filter.  The fluid has a yellowish thinish type of an oil. It definitely is not ATF fluid so I assume mine is Texaco Rando HD46, or equivalent.  The side of the reservoir shows Fleetguard 91417  83804. I found a filter that is 83804E, I believe that will be the one I need.  Are there more than one in this reservoir? 

I have already bought the spin on filter ZSE-10, but would like to have everything on hand to do the job in one fell swoop.

Thanks all for the help and insight. 

[96 EVO]

3 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

That's not an actual picture of mine I borrowed it to point out the clamp.  My canister holds 3 filters but I can't recall the part number.  

Maybe someone will come up with it or it's probably in the parts list.

Nope, your reservoir only has one filter in it.

I've seen the Nelson part number listed on this forum before. Possibly by Tom Cherry.

Myself, I've only changed the spin-on filter.

[Tom Cherry]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:51 PM, 96 EVO said:

Nope, your reservoir only has one filter in it.

I've seen the Nelson part number listed on this forum before. Possibly by Tom Cherry.

Myself, I've only changed the spin-on filter.

ALERT....  Many coaches have the spin on.  Many don't....don't ask me....ask Monaco.

The 2008 Dynasty has the SAME Nelson filter that we have....as well as the spin on….

Just want folks to know that what is on ONE Monaco....may NOT be on another....or even a higher one. SO, if you don't see the Hydraulic Filter in the Engine Compartment....then Monaco probably never put it there.  Check the Manual...but DO NOT BELIEVE IT all the time....as we have learned....

Just wanted folks to know that not every Monaco has the hydraulic spin on.....as some will look and then post and ask where it is......

This was true in the early days.  Every MONACO member swore up and down there was a COOLANT FILTER....and it came "Presoaked" with the Additive.  NOPE....Monaco DID, on some earlier ones....maybe in the late 90's....but it disappeared in the early 2000's of so.

 A lot of members spent a lot of time searching for a non-existent filter and were totally confused and thought that they needed to cut into a hose and then install it.  A member, with a LOT of Diesel experience...his crew did all the maintenance on his fleet of dump trucks and paving equipment had a recall.  That was a 2009 Camelot.  The shop in Florida was doing the work.  He was back there and asked the Tech....WHY NO COOLANT FILTER?  Tech's answer.  Manufacturers (folks that build trucks and busses and MH) got cheap.  They eliminated them.  Probably NOT an issue for the MH.  He had a firetruck next stall.  Same engine as our Camelot.  It has the Filter.  He said that special orders where someone goes through and specs it out and includes...  BUT, it is NOT a Cummin's MUST HAVE.

Just passing that along as probably a LOT of folks do NOT and why the Camelot's do?  Ask Monaco...

[96 EVO]

Matt, Let us know if that IS the correct Nelson filter part number.

I've never seen that stamping on the side of my reservoir, but, mine is mounted about 180* opposite of yours!

[klcdenver]

I know this has been beat to death. This only concerns TRW Steering Box. I just talked to Weller Truck Parts whom rebuilds and supplies the TAS 65 you convert to from the Sheppard Steering Box. When they set and adjust a steer box they use 50W oil. They said you can run 50W or ATF it does not matter to them. They said ATF may be more suitable if operating in extreme cold conditions. I am not trying to open another can of worms just passing this info along.

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, klcdenver said:

I know this has been beat to death. This only concerns TRW Steering Box. I just talked to Weller Truck Parts whom rebuilds and supplies the TAS 65 you convert to from the Sheppard Steering Box. When they set and adjust a steer box they use 50W oil. They said you can run 50W or ATF it does not matter to them. They said ATF may be more suitable if operating in extreme cold conditions. I am not trying to open another can of worms just passing this info along.

3 hours ago, klcdenver said:

Each company has its own “quirks”.  But, if you go to the TRW site and look at the REQUIREMENTS, not recommendations, for their “long life” or extended heavy duty requirements.  It says TES-295, which is the generic name for Transynd.  The TRW tech, like Frank says, said to use GENUINE Allison Transynd.  Have not checked the TRW site to see if they have uodated it to the NEW Allison Transynd, TES 668 (Memory…it is back in the posts.

Not knocking Weller’s advice or comments…but, for the extended service life or HD commercial warranty, TRW specifies “Transynd”.  Google the TRW specs and warranty and see if they changed. I never plan to drain and replace mine again….  GOT curious.

https://www.trwaftermarket.com/globalassets/na/trucksteering---literature/other-manuals/other-manuals-sm/trw800.pdf

Look at page 5….screen shot below.

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Matt, Let us know if that IS the correct Nelson filter part number.

I've never seen that stamping on the side of my reservoir, but, mine is mounted about 180* opposite of yours!

Found this in a previous post.  I think it has been posted many times.  NOW….FOR CLARIFICATION.  This is for the Nelson units that have the “less than 2 gallon” reservoir…..and a SINGLE filter in it.  Some of the upper end MH’s had a large…as in almost 5 Gallon cylindrical reservoir….they had 3 stacked filters.  This is NOT the information for them….but to your question, Ben, here it is.

My Nelson reservoir is one that was produced after Fleetguard  Nelson.  It is stamped with FG 91417.  It you clean yours, you might see that,  can’t remember where, but it was on one side or the other.

The Element, also stamped on the reservoir is 83804.  BUT, early ON….FG could NOT find that number and the Cummins parts guy called.  The element was 83895E…the E was critical….

Nelson Reservoir was a Fleetguard unit them....FG had bought them.

FG91417 is stamped on it.  NOW, in my records, I have another number....but can't get to cross reference.  I am NOT going to post that number.  The Cross Reference below is pretty complete....but VIF (Verify In Field)>

The Hydraulic Filter on mine was a Zinga...or the spin on. Zinga ZSE-10.  That crosses to the FG HF6777.  

That is it....

[Matt Lavender]

7 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Matt, Let us know if that IS the correct Nelson filter part number.

I've never seen that stamping on the side of my reservoir, but, mine is mounted about 180* opposite of yours!

Will do. Mine is mounted on the rear passenger side. 

I ordered a WIX filter 51637 and will have it tomorrow. Fleetguard 83804E crosses to the 51637. It appears mine only has the one filter in the reservoir.  Then there is also the additional spin on filter ZSE-10. I'll be doing this over the weekend and report back my findings.  Thanks

[96 EVO]

3 minutes ago, Matt Lavender said:

Will do. Mine is mounted on the rear passenger side. 

 

Yeah, my hyd res is mounted same as yours.

What IS interesting is where they mounted at least one of your fuel filters.

Mine are both mounted to the right of the air dryer. Maybe between when mine was built, and yours, Monaco decided mounting them directly above a hot tailpipe, wasn't such a great idea 😂!

[dandick66]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:06 AM, dandick66 said:

A couple of years ago I noticed the fluid was a little low in my 2012 Diplomat.  I checked the manual and it said to use AW46, so that’s what I added.  
I have no idea if my manual was wrong.  Could I have caused any potential damage to anything by adding the AW46 if it was supposed to have ATF or 10-40?  Everything seems fine and I have not had to add any more fluid.

 I do not have a hydraulic fan and as far as I know the power steering is the only thing hydraulic other than the slides, which have their own reservoir. 

I guess no one wants to take a shot at answering this??
 
Here is the filter info for my Diplomat - according to the manual - who knows if it’s right!
 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, dandick66 said:

I guess no one wants to take a shot at answering this??
 
Here is the filter info for my Diplomat - according to the manual - who knows if it’s right!
 

Nelson  84365a  or  Baldwin PT951 is what @Gweedo  posted.  According to your manual, you have the same system.  3.5 Quarts.  There are pictures of the “external” spin (like an oil) on filter, which @Gweedo doesn’t have.  So look at Gweedo’s pictures and then verify you do NOT have the additional filter.  

https://www.oilfilter-crossreference.com/convert/BALDWIN/PT951

if you google Baldwin PT951 there is a plethora of what to use.  My recommendation is that you do the following….  Get three paper towels.  Buy a quart of a known brand of Dexron III/Mericron 5 ATF.  This is what you need for your hydraulic Lippert Jack system.  Always good to have spare fluid.  

Remove the dipstick from your power steering hydraulic system.  Let it drip on one towel.  Maybe do that a few times  or let it drip on a piece of white plastic or even the top (assuming you have white) of your washing machine or any white appliance.  Then pull a sample of your Hydraulic jack fluid.  You KNOW that is ATF from the manual.  Finally, a few drops of the AW46.  ODDS ARE….the two ATF samples will look the same.  But, I think a highly UNLIKELY IF…but this is MONACO….After Navistar took over, that you have AW 46.  

NOW…  Do the math.  Gweedo said the 3.5 qt was the capacity when he flushed.  That is 112 Oz.  He or maybe someone else, here, or on the same topic, in another tread or post or topic said they only added 3 - 4 oz (half cup) to replenish the oil that was in the filter.  That is only 3.5%.  That little bit, assuming you did not pump out or drain the reservoir, is not an issue.  So, IF YOU HAVE RED ATF, I’ll bet you really can’t tell the difference….so let it be.

NOW, IF you did drain the reservoir or whatever is in your system is not “red” or “tan/yellowish/straw” colored….then maybe Monaco forgot and used motor oil.  Bottom line…if your jack oil and the power steering (hydraulic) samples look the same….drive on.  But, you could pump Or syphon out the reservoir and add back Transynd (original TS-295 or new TS-668) and then rest a little easier.  

IF it is a “horse of a different color” or if it is AW46, then I would follow what Gweedo did.  i would only flush once with a non synthetic ATF….then drain and replenish with Transynd.  

That’s my “shot” at an answer….if you keep adding, by draining or emptying the reservoir, Transynd, then after the next service, forget it…..it will last forever….

 

 

 

[Matt Lavender]

4 hours ago, dandick66 said:

I guess no one wants to take a shot at answering this??
 
Here is the filter info for my Diplomat - according to the manual - who knows if it’s right!
 

Mine is different than yours, so no comment on my end.  Tom Cherry is always pretty accurate on his info from what I've seen of his answers.  I would rely on his experience and expertise.

 

[Matt Lavender]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:13 PM, Matt Lavender said:

Will do. Mine is mounted on the rear passenger side. 

I ordered a WIX filter 51637 and will have it tomorrow. Fleetguard 83804E crosses to the 51637. It appears mine only has the one filter in the reservoir.  Then there is also the additional spin on filter ZSE-10. I'll be doing this over the weekend and report back my findings.  Thanks

Looking up research it shows my power steering and hydraulic fan uses HD46, WRONG!!!!

It uses ATF, Transynd 295 fluid.

My canister only has one internal filter, see pics.

Mine also uses a spin on filter, ZSE-10.

SEE PICS.  Just cause it says it in the manual doesn't always make it right.

 

[96 EVO]

Yep.

Many of us who own coaches around that vintage have learned that lesson!

So, the internal filter part # was correct?

[Tom Cherry]

May I start the EULOGY?  Friends....This Topic is now officially DECEASED....RIP. LOL!

Seriously....to recap.

There is a WEALTH of info here.  Also if you do a Search for Hydraulic Filter and click on the Topics (drop down from Everywhere), you get a world of information.

Frank and I chatted about this...  

There were FOUR (at least by our count...  Systems.

Original was a 10 Gallon (est) tank, built like it was intended for a Sherman TANK.  Filter??

Next up was the 5 Gallon version.  BIG and Cylindrical.  Has THREE filters (different from the next version) It MAY or may NOT have had the "Spin on" Additional Hydraulic (Zinga was what Monaco used...or at least in the later years) Filter.

Moving along....The later Camelots and Dynasties (probably upper ends as well) went to the SMALLER Nelson (the above 5 Gallon) and it has a smidge less than 2 Gallons. It has ONE internal filter...NOT THREE....Don't believe anyone that says there is THREE in a 2 Gallon....ONLY ONE.  It DOES have the Additional (we believe) Spin On Zinga Pressure Filter.  Supposedly the DPF and such rearranged the engine compartment and the bigger Nelson (5 Gal) would not fit.

NOW....for the NON SIDE RADIATOR....the Hydraulic system was actually "The Power Steering Pump" reservoir.  BUT, Monaco called it Hydraulic....not to be confused with the Hydraulic Jack system.  Don't ask. This only has ONE FILTER...but the PN is different, as BEST I can remember....this topic is contorted...but is NOT the same as the Single Filter in the 2 Gallon unit....

It is the smallest and is the maybe 3.5 Qt that started this topic.  

All the info on filters has been verified...and repeated.  If you go to some of the searches...you will find the complete LIST.

RIP, Hydraulic Filters and Oil....we knew you well.... DOUBLE LOL1

[96 EVO]

4 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

Next up was the 5 Gallon version.  BIG and Cylindrical.  Has THREE filters (different from the next version) It MAY or may NOT have had the "Spin on" Additional Hydraulic (Zinga was what Monaco used...or at least in the later years) Filter.

 

Has anyone with the tall tank with 3 stacked internal filters, reported they also have the spin-on Zinga filter?

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Has anyone with the tall tank with 3 stacked internal filters, reported they also have the spin-on Zinga filter?

You can go out and find that out.  Download the older (maybe 2005 or 2006) Dynasty Manual and look at the capacity.  Compare it to yours.  The quantity will be larger.  Then see if they list a Pressure Spin on like we have.  As I said....that was something that Monaco MAY not have been consistent with....and if the did or did not (5 gallon), it may have varied by the years.  The Spin on Pressure was to give folk like us better filtration as there was only ONE and the reservoir was smaller.  That is what we "Rationalized" from all the past discussions.

So the answer is..."It MIGHT depend"....

[96 EVO]

Tom, as you can probably imagine, when it comes to hyd systems, I believe nothing they printed in their manuals!

My manual shows my coach having the tall reservoir with 3 stacked filters, and only the spin-on filter if my coach came with a CAT engine! I'm also supposed to have AW-46.

Wrong on all three!!!

I have 0 interest in looking up another models manual to decide if it could be correct or not 😁! 

Believe I posted a while back I called their 'Tech' support, while they still had support, and questioned why my AW-46 had a red tint to it. After a few seconds of though, the guy told me Monaco 'sometimes' added red dye to their hyd fluid!

He didn't sound very convincing, and I didn't believe a word he said!

My one and only experience with Monaco 'Tech' support!

I've had better luck with forum's like this one ever since!

And of course Harry, my '08 Camelot / Scepter Guru 😉!

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Matt Lavender]

On 9/30/2023 at 2:25 PM, 96 EVO said:

Yep.

Many of us who own coaches around that vintage have learned that lesson!

So, the internal filter part # was correct?

Yes, correct #83804 stamped on the side of the canister is in fact a #83804E filter inside.  WIX filter #51637 is identical, single filter.

[dandick66]

On 9/29/2023 at 9:01 AM, Tom Cherry said:

Nelson  84365a  or  Baldwin PT951 is what @Gweedo  posted.  According to your manual, you have the same system.  3.5 Quarts.  There are pictures of the “external” spin (like an oil) on filter, which @Gweedo doesn’t have.  So look at Gweedo’s pictures and then verify you do NOT have the additional filter.  

https://www.oilfilter-crossreference.com/convert/BALDWIN/PT951

if you google Baldwin PT951 there is a plethora of what to use.  My recommendation is that you do the following….  Get three paper towels.  Buy a quart of a known brand of Dexron III/Mericron 5 ATF.  This is what you need for your hydraulic Lippert Jack system.  Always good to have spare fluid.  

Remove the dipstick from your power steering hydraulic system.  Let it drip on one towel.  Maybe do that a few times  or let it drip on a piece of white plastic or even the top (assuming you have white) of your washing machine or any white appliance.  Then pull a sample of your Hydraulic jack fluid.  You KNOW that is ATF from the manual.  Finally, a few drops of the AW46.  ODDS ARE….the two ATF samples will look the same.  But, I think a highly UNLIKELY IF…but this is MONACO….After Navistar took over, that you have AW 46.  

NOW…  Do the math.  Gweedo said the 3.5 qt was the capacity when he flushed.  That is 112 Oz.  He or maybe someone else, here, or on the same topic, in another tread or post or topic said they only added 3 - 4 oz (half cup) to replenish the oil that was in the filter.  That is only 3.5%.  That little bit, assuming you did not pump out or drain the reservoir, is not an issue.  So, IF YOU HAVE RED ATF, I’ll bet you really can’t tell the difference….so let it be.

NOW, IF you did drain the reservoir or whatever is in your system is not “red” or “tan/yellowish/straw” colored….then maybe Monaco forgot and used motor oil.  Bottom line…if your jack oil and the power steering (hydraulic) samples look the same….drive on.  But, you could pump Or syphon out the reservoir and add back Transynd (original TS-295 or new TS-668) and then rest a little easier.  

IF it is a “horse of a different color” or if it is AW46, then I would follow what Gweedo did.  i would only flush once with a non synthetic ATF….then drain and replenish with Transynd.  

That’s my “shot” at an answer….if you keep adding, by draining or emptying the reservoir, Transynd, then after the next service, forget it…..it will last forever….

 

 

 

 

On 9/30/2023 at 9:52 PM, 96 EVO said:

Tom, as you can probably imagine, when it comes to hyd systems, I believe nothing they printed in their manuals!

My manual shows my coach having the tall reservoir with 3 stacked filters, and only the spin-on filter if my coach came with a CAT engine! I'm also supposed to have AW-46.

Wrong on all three!!!

I have 0 interest in looking up another models manual to decide if it could be correct or not 😁! 

Believe I posted a while back I called their 'Tech' support, while they still had support, and questioned why my AW-46 had a red tint to it. After a few seconds of though, the guy told me Monaco 'sometimes' added red dye to their hyd fluid!

He didn't sound very convincing, and I didn't believe a word he said!

My one and only experience with Monaco 'Tech' support!

I've had better luck with forum's like this one ever since!

And of course Harry, my '08 Camelot / Scepter Guru 😉!

 

Sorry for the delay in responding - I’ve been working on home projects.  
Based on the info in my owners manual, I don’t think the drip test will work.  According to REV, they add pink dye to the AW46.  It does say the capacity is 3.5 quarts, though.  

[Guest Ray Davis]

1 hour ago, dandick66 said:

According to REV, they add pink dye to the AW46.    

I have read that somewhere before,  seems a little far-fetched to me.  

[Tom Cherry]

13 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

I have read that somewhere before,  seems a little far-fetched to me.  

@dandick66

DITTO.  Now MAYBE REV did….but from all the posts starting in March 2009….with our founders and some really fanatical and very knowledgeable owners…..on the original Yahoo site…

Monaco NEVER did add “dye”…. LOL!  The standard test was PAPER towel, if needed, and DRIP.  

Unless Navistar brought in some “experts” and they were successful in “standardizing Monaco”, I doubt that ever happened.  Monaco could not even “standardize” itself…and if there were a few extra drums of AW46 and the drums of AFT were not hooked up….then you MIGHT get AW-46 in a system that was supposed to have ATF.

That was Coburg.  From all the back and forth, we can conclude….the Elkhart folks were an independent cuss.  They put  in Motor Oil…but the “tech writers” in Elkhart never even got the manual 100% correct.

If there was an 07 Diplomat made in Elkhart, it was SUPPOSED to have motor oil.

REV, IMHO, is totally out of touch…as they kept very FEW “Monaco Knowledgeable” folks.  Their tech support depends on figuring out how to use their “legacy” prints and reading the sales brochures and owner’s manuals…

I will really go out on a limb and say….we have way more practical and correct information here.  If we could get the “intellectual property” files that REV has….this site would be totally awesome….

If you called Monaco tech support from the early to mid/late 2000’s….they had a crew of old timers and they were great.  i was on a first name basis with “Jim”.  He KNEW…but was also wrong….on a few problems….nobody is perfect.  He was in Coburg and his knowledge of Elkhart was sketchy.  But, they eventually replaced him.  REV calls us “Legacy” for a reason….translation….we don’t have a clue…unless it is on a print…and we can’t always find the right print…

That’s my 14 years of reading and 12 years moderating and reading/skimming every email….and we had days where the Yahoo site had 150 plus emails…….now, I missed a little from Oct 2018 until mid 2019, due to a health issue…but i have read all or most of the topics here during that time by searching.

That’s my conclusion….and we, the Staff, have to throw a flag…when we think/know that misinformation is posted…