2005 Sig - ECM Failure - Need Monaco parameters

[Steve Shunk]

While in Alaska, the ECM on my 2005 Signature Conquest with an ISM 500 engine had a catastrophic failure. All information on the ECM was lost. From what I understand, the ECM requires two sets of coding: one for the engine, and one for the OEM. A Cummins dealer in Fairbanks replaced the ECM and had the engine coding to load and was able to get the rig running again. However, the dealer did not have the OEM coding and as a result, things like the ABS and cruise control are not working, the radiator fan always runs on high, and I have a constant alarm going off. I expect there is even more that is not working properly due to the gap and I just don't know about it.

I'm now in Coburg, OR and REV has told me that their copy of the OEM coding is corrupted so they are not able to upload the missing coding. REV seems to not have any desire to help me with my situation so I am reaching out to this group seeking suggestions, recommendations, and hopefully solutions.

This is all very new to me but is it possible to download the OEM coding from a similar rig and then upload it into mine? Does it have to be a Conquest or will any 2005 Signature with an ISM 500 do?

Thanks in advance for any insights you may have. And feel free to correct me on my understanding of the ECM programming. As I said, this is all new to me.

[Ivan K]

Hopefully someone with your year will respond. I have .eif file for my 2000 Sig with ISM 500 but there is likely a number of differences being 5 years apart.

[gunnyclark]

When the ECM went bad on my 2006 Sig w/the ISX 600 2 years ago (70 mph on I-20 towing a car trailer when the engine shut off - the ECM kept telling the coach that the key was turned off) I was told that there were no replacement available unless I found a used one, so I have to wonder what that ECM went to that you have, I found M&M RV Electronics in Ohio who rebuilt the board (they specialize in rebuilding bad RV control boards)I sent them the board from Texas and had it back in less than 3 weeks with expedited shipping for under $300.00

[Carolann]

If still in OR call Elite Renovation and Repair at  (541) 995-4767 They might be able to help.  Not too far from REV

[Frank McElroy]

Steve, what you really need is the engine parameter settings list for a 2005 Signature with an ISM500 engine.  This will be a paper copy - dealers don't have the capability to transfer a complete copy of parameter settings from one ECM to another electronically.  To do that they would need Cummins Calterm software and Cummins won't give it to them.

BUT, you will likely find that what Cummins did in terms of default parameters is likely very close.  Get a copy of your EIF file for your coach from the Cummins dealer and send it along with your coach build sheet showing your axle gear ratio to me and I'll review the parameter settings.

It's unlikely that a parameter setting is causing issues with the ABS but it's easy to check and I'm surprised that your dealer didn't do that.  Keep in mind that whatever fried the Engine ECM might also have taken out other components like the ABS controller and your SmartWheel controller especially if a voltage surge was involved.  A scan of the ABS controller with the Bendix software will tell you right away whether the issue is with communicating with the engine ECM or something else.

[Scotty Hutto]

@pwhittle has a 2005 Sig (not sure if it has the ISM500).  He has the Insite software and could get a PDF of the parameters. 

[vito.a]

Paul's coach has a Cummins ISX 525.

Frank is on the right path. 

 

[SUCHESTOM]

I do not know how uniformily Monaco programmed their coaches, I would say the closer the match to your coach the greater the chance of everything working.   You need to find a fellow Monacoer with a sister coach willing to  go to a shop that has access to cummins insite and have them pull the ecm software from it and email the file to you.   

Edited October 21, 2023 by SUCHESTOM

[Tom Cherry]

Had a sidebar conversation with Frank McElroy.  He is assisting Steve.  FWIW, I will add a comment to Frank's post....which is something that one rarely needs to do.  There is NO WAY, unless one has the  Cummin's Calterm software and "key" to do a complete ELECTRONIC reflash or copy. 

So, for good reason.  If you have a complete scan, or the Electronic copy, then someone needed it, and they had access to the Calterm software and were able to copy that to their ECM, then your Mileage and VIN and Engine SN would be in their coach.

I have a 54 Page "full scan" PDF that Frank provided me with when we visited him several years ago.  Of that 54 pages, there is, he estimated, maybe 2 pages of "Monaco" parameters....  That data needs to be input to finish the full programming to return an ECM to the specific MH and it will be exactly as Monaco had provided..  A new or refurbished Cummins ECM is specific to your Engine....based on the SN of your engine.  SO, you get one....bingo....all you need is there.  It will run and start.  There are some OTHER data inputs....such as, but not limited to my comprehension....  Tire Size, Rear End Ratio, Cruise and Exhaust brake parameters, maybe a "Tail shaft RPM" for the Allison.  

Frank provided me with a copy of a 2008 ECM PDF (54 or so pages) and we gave it to a tech back in 2020 to help a buddy get rolling.  This was for an Executive/Navigator. A Cummins dealer had put in a refurbished ECM so all the emissions and the "OS" was in it.  The dealer had to put in the parameters as to the mileage and such.  Frank worked with the tech on the phone, as I had done prior to getting the copy, and the tech just keyed in the information.  Obviously he had to know what he needed...but by scrolling page by page, with the PDF and the Insite screens....he then reprogrammed that "generic-engine specific" ECM to exactly like a 2008 Navigator/Executive left Monaco.

Hope this helps folks to understand.  

[SUCHESTOM]

22 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Had a sidebar conversation with Frank McElroy.  He is assisting Steve.  FWIW, I will add a comment to Frank's post....which is something that one rarely needs to do.  There is NO WAY, unless one has the  Cummin's Calterm software and "key" to do a complete ELECTRONIC reflash or copy. 

So, for good reason.  If you have a complete scan, or the Electronic copy, then someone needed it, and they had access to the Calterm software and were able to copy that to their ECM, then your Mileage and VIN and Engine SN would be in their coach.

I have a 54 Page "full scan" PDF that Frank provided me with when we visited him several years ago.  Of that 54 pages, there is, he estimated, maybe 2 pages of "Monaco" parameters....  That data needs to be input to finish the full programming to return an ECM to the specific MH and it will be exactly as Monaco had provided..  A new or refurbished Cummins ECM is specific to your Engine....based on the SN of your engine.  SO, you get one....bingo....all you need is there.  It will run and start.  There are some OTHER data inputs....such as, but not limited to my comprehension....  Tire Size, Rear End Ratio, Cruise and Exhaust brake parameters, maybe a "Tail shaft RPM" for the Allison.  

Frank provided me with a copy of a 2008 ECM PDF (54 or so pages) and we gave it to a tech back in 2020 to help a buddy get rolling.  This was for an Executive/Navigator. A Cummins dealer had put in a refurbished ECM so all the emissions and the "OS" was in it.  The dealer had to put in the parameters as to the mileage and such.  Frank worked with the tech on the phone, as I had done prior to getting the copy, and the tech just keyed in the information.  Obviously he had to know what he needed...but by scrolling page by page, with the PDF and the Insite screens....he then reprogrammed that "generic-engine specific" ECM to exactly like a 2008 Navigator/Executive left Monaco.

Hope this helps folks to understand.  

I get what you are saying, but I do not get why you can not create your own page by page screen shot pdf or jpg file by scrolling through the insite screens and screen shotting the data on a sister coach, then entering it on the needy coach.  There are some auto manufacturers from this period that required an as built file by vin because programming wasnt identical on identical vehicles.  I am unaware of heavy duty applications set up this way.   If it was the case, the paper PDF from another coach would be useless as well.

[Tom Cherry]

42 minutes ago, SUCHESTOM said:

I get what you are saying, but I do not get why you can not create your own page by page screen shot pdf or jpg file by scrolling through the insite screens and screen shotting the data on a sister coach, then entering it on the needy coach.  There are some auto manufacturers from this period that required an as built file by vin because programming wasnt identical on identical vehicles.  I am unaware of heavy duty applications set up this way.   If it was the case, the paper PDF from another coach would be useless as well.

Not exactly sure what you mean.  I think it is a matter of semantics.  I have the PDF of my ECM.  SO, if ever needed, then it is available on screen or printed hard copy.  The Insite software printed that out.  Yes, if you had Insite, you could scroll, page by page and PRN SCRN or do a phone photo of each page.

Per conversations with Frank, there are only a few pages where data can be input, from Insite.  Whateverformat you have the parameters and screens in…will work.  The point was that unless younhave the Calterm program, and Cummins doesn’t allow that, then, an Ecopy cannot be used.

The Tuners, I believe, use a hacked program and actually allow changes to the parameters so you can bypass or modify emissions or change various parameters to improve performance….of course, i& there is a warranty issue, you are out of luck.  GM, for example, has a simple “scan & compare to OEM” Routine….takes a few seconds…..and there is a parameter by parameter comparison.  Change one, your $$ to fix whatever broke.

[SUCHESTOM]

29 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Not exactly sure what you mean.  I think it is a matter of semantics.  I have the PDF of my ECM.  SO, if ever needed, then it is available on screen or printed hard copy.  The Insite software printed that out.  Yes, if you had Insite, you could scroll, page by page and PRN SCRN or do a phone photo of each page.

Per conversations with Frank, there are only a few pages where data can be input, from Insite.  Whateverformat you have the parameters and screens in…will work.  The point was that unless younhave the Calterm program, and Cummins doesn’t allow that, then, an Ecopy cannot be used.

The Tuners, I believe, use a hacked program and actually allow changes to the parameters so you can bypass or modify emissions or change various parameters to improve performance….of course, i& there is a warranty issue, you are out of luck.  GM, for example, has a simple “scan & compare to OEM” Routine….takes a few seconds…..and there is a parameter by parameter comparison.  Change one, your $$ to fix whatever broke.

I am learning from the discussion on Cummins, I make no claim to have Cummins programming knowledge.  I have a couple of nexiq usb links and use them on Caterpillar and Navistar engines.  I have Insite on my laptop, but haven't had an issue with any of my Cummins engines so I haven't licensed it yet.  Calterm is available for purchase, not sure of it's origins.    If you have the right links and software you can do a lot, I have a medium duty on highway truck running a marine computer on a cat c7.  The computer was correct for the generation of the engine, all the on highway software was moved to it and OEM parameters set to match the truck and it has been running for years.   Just like in this discussion, setting up the oem side was the challenge.  I do not see giving up on fixing an otherwise serviceable coach over ecm programming issues.   It may be difficult to obtain the needed information, but it should be possible.     INSITE does have the ability to create and export an ECM image, as well as apply it to an ECM.  It does not have the ability to make an engine illegal, such as remove emissions programming, but provides a way to program a replacement ECM from an original image.   All this is motivating me to create an image file for my Monaco while all is functioning correctly.  It would be a nightmare to go jump through the hoops of recreating everything from scratch.

 

[Frank McElroy]

4 hours ago, SUCHESTOM said:

I am learning from the discussion on Cummins, I make no claim to have Cummins programming knowledge.  I have a couple of nexiq usb links and use them on Caterpillar and Navistar engines.  I have Insite on my laptop, but haven't had an issue with any of my Cummins engines so I haven't licensed it yet.  Calterm is available for purchase, not sure of it's origins.    If you have the right links and software you can do a lot, I have a medium duty on highway truck running a marine computer on a cat c7.  The computer was correct for the generation of the engine, all the on highway software was moved to it and OEM parameters set to match the truck and it has been running for years.   Just like in this discussion, setting up the oem side was the challenge.  I do not see giving up on fixing an otherwise serviceable coach over ecm programming issues.   It may be difficult to obtain the needed information, but it should be possible.     INSITE does have the ability to create and export an ECM image, as well as apply it to an ECM.  It does not have the ability to make an engine illegal, such as remove emissions programming, but provides a way to program a replacement ECM from an original image.   All this is motivating me to create an image file for my Monaco while all is functioning correctly.  It would be a nightmare to go jump through the hoops of recreating everything from scratch.

 

Insite only allows for creation and export of a limited image of the ECM.  Basically all you get is what you see on the 50 page printed file.  You will not get an image of the factory engine operation settings - but you will get parameter settings Cummins allows a user to change.  The only way to create a complete image of the ecm is with Cummins Calterm software.  An image with Calterm will be a snapshot in time including the engine hours and mileage at the time the image was created.  A Calterm image can be used to reflash a refurbished ECM.

[m.demeere]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:52 PM, gunnyclark said:

When the ECM went bad on my 2006 Sig w/the ISX 600 2 years ago (70 mph on I-20 towing a car trailer when the engine shut off - the ECM kept telling the coach that the key was turned off) I was told that there were no replacement available unless I found a used one, so I have to wonder what that ECM went to that you have, I found M&M RV Electronics in Ohio who rebuilt the board (they specialize in rebuilding bad RV control boards)I sent them the board from Texas and had it back in less than 3 weeks with expedited shipping for under $300.00

That’s Awesome!! Mine went out In Tennessee I had it towed to Cummins in Chattanooga . $1000.00 Tow bill & 2,000.00 for ECM

[Tom Cherry]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:52 PM, gunnyclark said:

When the ECM went bad on my 2006 Sig w/the ISX 600 2 years ago (70 mph on I-20 towing a car trailer when the engine shut off - the ECM kept telling the coach that the key was turned off) I was told that there were no replacement available unless I found a used one, so I have to wonder what that ECM went to that you have, I found M&M RV Electronics in Ohio who rebuilt the board (they specialize in rebuilding bad RV control boards)I sent them the board from Texas and had it back in less than 3 weeks with expedited shipping for under $300.00

Curiosity, did the board that the ECM was mounted on go bad or was the ECM bad.  M&M has never, based on numerous posts, ever been involved in “fixing” an ECM.  If the board was bad and the socket or communication connection was bad….that was a board failure.  Did you purchase and have a new ECM installed.  The $2000 for a refurbished one that Mark D quoted is about the going rate for a refurb ECM…..while a new one is $3,000 or so

Need a little clarity.  Thanks.