Coach Wont Crank and run

[Gonzalo]

I am a Nuvi in coaching I have a 2005 Holliday rambler Endeavor. is been plug to a house 50 amp box ,i crank every 2 to 3 weeks for health issues i was not able to move it out now in north Caroline the weather get cold to about 25 degrees at night and my batteries get weak  my question is where i can huck up the charger i have two banks of batteries one of 4 batteries and another of 2 batteries i have an inverter working all the time and run the 7500 k generator too once ana wile please advise pictures included  I just check voltage at them and read 11.6 volts at the two black one and 12.6 at the red ones .

[Tom Cherry]

from the TOP....  When you are on SHORE or run the Generator, your HOUSE BATTERIES are NOT BEING CHARGED.  SO, they have just sat there.  The later models of MH has the BI-DIRECTIONAL charging so that when you were on SHORE....the HOUSE would also be charged by the Inverter.  When you DRIVE, the Alternator is the ONLY thing that charges them.  Think of them as being separated by a BIG WALL.

What you need to do is to use the Battery Charger and hook it up to the TWO BLACK BATTERIES.  There is a SINGLE RED (BIG) cable going to the ENGINE or CHASSIS or BLACK bank.  There is also a single Black Cable..  These are on the REAR.  

LOOK at the picture....there is also a RED jumper to the FRONT battery as well as a BLACK jumper to the Front one.  IDEALLY, you put your charger on the BACK RED (Positive) and BACK BLACK (Negative).  BUT, if you did it up front...it will work.

Go ahead and charge the BLACK BANK. NOW, before you DO.  Look at the top and it has TWO panels... "DANGER/POISION".  I can't tell if that is a cover for each of the 3 cells under it or IF the battery is a Maintenance Free and these covers are SEALED.  Take a medium sized slotted screwdriver and gently put it in the groove and see if you can lift of pry off a cover.  IF YOU CAN....then you will need a gallon of DeIonized DISTILLED WATER (NOT SPRING WATER) from a supermarket or a pharmacy.  You need to properly refill each cell.  If the cover is glued on or pressed into place and was NOT designed to be removed....then move on.

A word of CAUTION.  DO NOT LEAVE THAT CHARGER ON FOR MORE THAN A DAY (24 Hour). It is a CHEAP charger and if you leave it plugged in all the time, it will boil out the water and kill or ruin the batteries

THE OTHER WAY TO SAFELY RECHARGE....  Take a standard Auto Jumper Cable.  Connect it to the REAR RED TERMINAL on the HOUSE (4 Bank set) and run it to the REAR RED TERMINAL on the Black (Chassis or Starting).  Start the generator. Let it run for maybe an HOUR....that will use the Inverter to recharge BOTH BANKS...   Shut OFF the Generator...  Remove the Jumper Cable.  Try to START the Engine....if it runs...then let it run for a couple of hours....that way the Alternator will charge it...or drive it.

You will have to recharge the ENGINE (Chassis) batteries every month or so....so you can either use the Jumper Cables and let the Generator run for maybe 3 hours....and that will do it...

Good Luck.

 

[Ivylog]

Quote: “from the TOP....  When you are on SHORE or run the Generator, your HOUSE BATTERIES are NOT BEING CHARGED.”? Really

[Doug and Nicki]

The black batteries are your engine starting batteries. Get a volt meter and check the voltage across the furthers negative post and positive post. You need to have 12.3 or better for full charge. If you do not have this, then hook up your charger to bring them up to full charge. All my batteries, including the chassis and house charge when on shore power. The Big Boy isolator in the rear run bay handles this.

If I am wrong here, please let me know why.

Edited January 9 by Doug and Nicki

[Tdkkart]

51 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

Quote: “from the TOP....  When you are on SHORE or run the Generator, your HOUSE BATTERIES are NOT BEING CHARGED.”? Really

Well, that's what he said, but I suspect he may have meant chassis batteries? Maybe?  Mine charges both when on shore power.

[cbr046]

It's a good idea to wear safety glasses if you remove the caps.  I've never seen it but they can splash when you add water.  Each cell should be filled to the bottom of the "tube" that goes down inside the cap.  This is the full point.  At minimum all the plates inside should be covered in water.  When they're not covered bad things happen. 

I've been told (by Ga Tech PhD) that De-ionized water will leach ions out of the plates.  It's a battle I'm not willing to re-fight here, sorta like what oil to use.  I use DISTILLED water (from the grocery store). 

Your "Red Bank" of batteries are your coach batteries and on my coach the inverter will boil the water down below the plates after 2 - 3 months. 

I have to turn my chassis battery bank off if I'm running for a few days.  There's two big round switches on the wall inside your battery compartment.  The chassis switch will lead to your "Black Bank".

As Tom Cherry said, don't leave your general purpose charger on for more that a day.  If you find a battery MAINTAINER you can leave those on indefinitely. 

I hope you winterized your pluming by now?

- bob

[Gonzalo]

thanks guys I learn every day and congratulation to all Monacoers happy new year lets RV. 

[Benjamin]

I thought that Gonzalo said it is plugged in.  With those voltages, neither battery bank is being charged.

Hook that charger up to the black batteries first.  In those temps, I'd leave that charger on as long as you want.  First, turn the switch at the bottom right on the charger to the middle setting, 10Amps, and leave it hooked up for a day, if the needle is way to the left after a day, then switch to the 2Amp setting and leave it for a few more days. 

You could use the 50Amp setting possibly, but my experience is it's not worth the risk to the charger or RV. 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, cbr046 said:

It's a good idea to wear safety glasses if you remove the caps.  I've never seen it but they can splash when you add water.  Each cell should be filled to the bottom of the "tube" that goes down inside the cap.  This is the full point.  At minimum all the plates inside should be covered in water.  When they're not covered bad things happen. 

I've been told (by Ga Tech PhD) that De-ionized water will leach ions out of the plates.  It's a battle I'm not willing to re-fight here, sorta like what oil to use.  I use DISTILLED water (from the grocery store). 

Your "Red Bank" of batteries are your coach batteries and on my coach the inverter will boil the water down below the plates after 2 - 3 months. 

I have to turn my chassis battery bank off if I'm running for a few days.  There's two big round switches on the wall inside your battery compartment.  The chassis switch will lead to your "Black Bank".

As Tom Cherry said, don't leave your general purpose charger on for more that a day.  If you find a battery MAINTAINER you can leave those on indefinitely. 

I hope you winterized your pluming by now?

- bob

I’m an old CERTIFIED ELECTRO FINISHER….as well as someone who was a process engineering consultant for my Division as well as helping out other divisions in my company.  I think DISTILLED and type DEIONIZED…LOL

BUT, I got curious…..here is an excerpt that I ran across….

https://www.crown.com/blog/en-us/articles/energy-management/deionized-water-for-maintaining-your-lead-acid-batteries.html

CROWN equipment is one of the premier manufacturers of lift trucks and high rise order pickers….I know….I spent almost a million upgrading one of our automated warehouses…..so, since they say DEIONIZED is best and maybe Trojan “meant” the following….  They use the generic “WATER” when discussing how to fill and measure and maintain….but their caveat is “Distilled is recommended”….almost like, most folks will use tap water, but it is better to use “Distilled”….in that finding Deionized Water is tough.

I’m sort of the opinion that Distilled or Deionized water is fine for batteries….and sure beats tap water.  I also know from practical experience that Reverse Osmosis water, especially when the incoming stream is barely pure…as in a Mexican plant I built had to have a bleach sanitizer for the Kitchen.  Later, when i added a plating line, we actually reused our water.  We had a DI system for the incoming, but to hold costs down, I installed a RO water system on the treated Effulent….and that water was pure…very pure.  We used it as 90% of the fresh water makeup for the line….and only 10% DI water.  So….USE DISTILLED as it is easier to find, but DI or even RO is heads and shoulders better….like comparing 3 high performance cars.  Each one is trying to break 2.0 seconds in Zero to 60…  The EV’s can attaint it. The new C8 E-Ray (Hybrid Corvette) will do 2.1….and has a sticker of maybe $150K whenever they finally price it….but the competition begins around $250K.

My C7 plain Jane Z51 is around 3.7 seconds….and i have done a “run” in a Z06 that was under 3 seconds….I could barely control it and my C7 is a handful….so, other than to have the braggin’ rights….what do I need a faster car for???  Same with the water…or, after a lot of reading…..Use any of the three…

What Is Deionization?

Water that has been purified of dissolved minerals and salts through a process called deionization is recognized as the best choice for maintaining lead-acid batteries. Deionization eliminates more impurities from water than distillation or conventional filters.

Minerals in water interfere with cell voltage and increase self-discharge, which progressively shortens battery run times. Deionized water also reduces corrosion of the cells.

With the mineral ions gone, deionized water will not conduct electricity and thus will not hinder battery performance. While some might argue that removing undesirable content from your water isn’t really creating a solution (mixture), it is definitely the right solution (answer) for getting the most from your lead-acid battery investment.

 

[MyronTruex]

5 hours ago, Doug and Nicki said:

The black batteries are your engine starting batteries. Get a volt meter and check the voltage across the furthers negative post and positive post. You need to have 12.3 or better for full charge. If you do not have this, then hook up your charger to bring them up to full charge. All my batteries, including the chassis and house charge when on shore power. The Big Boy isolator in the rear run bay handles this.

If I am wrong here, please let me know why.

12.3 is only 60% charged. It needs to be close to 12.7. While charging it should be 13.5 to 14. There are tons of battery voltage charts. You may find when your engine battery voltage gets up to a certain point that the house batteries being charging. Watch the voltage on both banks. With the engine started, the alternator will bring the voltage up quickly and the house bank should start being charged in just a few minutes, or less. 

[Rocketman3]

After you get the emergency of a charge into the battery…

 

you need to figure out why that happened.  You probably have a “BIRD” system that is supposed to keep both sets of batteries charged.  You probably need to troubleshoot it.  

If you start the generator - are both batteries being charged?

if you plug the rig into shore power (15amps is fine) are both batteries being charged?

And then, when your big diesel motor is running- are both batteries being charged?

[Doug and Nicki]

[MyronTruex]

Ird or Bird, either way, that large solenoid on the back has a purple wire on one of the small terminals. If/When, the purple  wire has voltage on it the solenoid should be engaged/closed, just a simple short across the larger terminals which combines the battery banks. With that state, you should measure the same voltage on each bank of batteries.

You may have a one way system. A picture of your front run boad would tell the tale on what you have driving it. 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, MyronTruex said:

Ird or Bird, either way, that large solenoid on the back has a purple wire on one of the small terminals. If/When, the purple  wire has voltage on it the solenoid should be engaged/closed, just a simple short across the larger terminals which combines the battery banks. With that state, you should measure the same voltage on each bank of batteries.

You may have a one way system. A picture of your front run boad would tell the tale on what you have driving it. 

UNFORTUNATELY, the prints that Monaco provided for the 2006 Diplomat/Endeavor were NOT the world's GREATEST.  Have been over them several times in similar instances.  There is NO one drawing that shows the entire "High Current" diagram like there are in others years. Therefore, I THINK, and others with the 2006 will have to chime in....there is NOT any CHASSIS/STARTING charging when plugged into SHORE or Genny. SOME may have added a THIEF that is supposed to keep the Chassis maintained....but without a clear picture of all the bays and such, that would be a GUESS...

The 2006 Diplomat/Endeavor, does NOT, I think have a "CHASSIS/STARTING" or Bi-Directional system. Here is the wording from the manual.  There is absolutely NOTHING discussing this in the House Electrical Section (8).  This comes from the Chassis (Section 9) opening...

There are two separate 12 Volt systems. One is the chassis system; the other is the house system. These two systems, for the most part, are separate from one another. The house system does not operate engine functions; as the engine system does not operate house functions. However, within the two systems there are some inner connections. For example: While the motorhome is driven the alternator on the engine will surface charge the house batteries. Each system will supply 12 Volt DC power to the 12 Volt distribution panels. The two different systems, engine and house, have their own set(s) of battery(s). The engine battery supplies 12 Volt DC power to the front distribution panel located in an outside compartment by the driver’s side front wheel. This panel contains mostly engine system fuses and wiring such as headlights, taillights, dashboard functions, gauges, etc. The house battery(s) supplies 12 Volt DC power to the distribution panel located in the bedroom. This panel contains fuses for the house, interior lighting and appliances, such as the furnace and water heater.

 

[Bobkat11208]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:48 PM, Tom Cherry said:

 

THE OTHER WAY TO SAFELY RECHARGE....  Take a standard Auto Jumper Cable.  Connect it to the REAR RED TERMINAL on the HOUSE (4 Bank set) and run it to the REAR RED TERMINAL on the Black (Chassis or Starting).  Start the generator. Let it run for maybe an HOUR....that will use the Inverter to recharge BOTH BANKS...   Shut OFF the Generator...  Remove the Jumper Cable.  Try to START the Engine....if it runs...then let it run for a couple of hours....that way the Alternator will charge it...or drive it.

 

Quick question Tom, connect just the positive (red) cable, and not ground anywhere ? And, when you say “rear” do you mean the set closest to the bay door, furthest forward (in the “ rear” of the compartment) or merely the battery banks at the rear of the coach?  Sorry, I guess that’s 2 questions. 🤔

Edited January 10 by Bobkat11208

[MyronTruex]

The grounds of both banks are connected so only one cable is necessary.

You must be absolutely sure of the positive connection on the engine battery bank and the house battery bank. It can be confusing looking at the house batteries. The engine batteries are easy to identify the positive on.

With the series/parallel setup on the house batteries you can cause a great deal off harm if you connect incorrectly. Make sure you vent the battery area, have a water hose and a fire extinguisher handy as well as safety goggles. One little spark can cause havoc.

If you have a voltmeter, measure from ground to each large post on that large solenoid on the back wall. The engine battery voltage will be/should be on the right large post. The house on the other of course. 

I believe there is a purple wire on the small terminal of the solenoid. Grab a light weight jumper and connect to the purple wire and then touch it momentarily to one of the large terminals. Be prepared for a loud thunk that may startle you. If you hear the thunk (and the little jumper does not get hot quickly), leave the jumper in place and measure each large terminal once again. IF they are very close in voltage, you have just jumped the battery banks together just as you would when pushing the emergency start button. Those solenoids are notorious for failure so this procedure may not work if you have a failed one.

IF the voltage on each side of the solenoid is close, run your generator or shoreline and you should see an immediate increase in voltage on each bank. As Tom suggests, an hour of charging should help, but more is better.

With the small jumper still in place and the generator running, try turning the engine over. This should have your house batteries and the charging system helping.

I only responded because Tom has not yet and thought you might be a bit impatient . 

[Bobkat11208]

Thanks, Myron! That explains it well.

[Steven P]

As a 2006 Diplomat owner, ( @Tom Cherry) they came from the factory to only charge the house batteries when plugged into shore power.  I have an Amp L Start on mine to keep the chassis batteries charged.  You can zoom in and see the AMP L start on the right side of the pic. Prior to that, I turned off my chassis battery switch whenever plugged in.  The goofy downside to that design is that the door and porch awnings get power from the chassis batteries.