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2002 Windsor Electrical Issue & NEW Three (3) Phase CG Pedestal Discussion - MERGED


joecfd1

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We picked up or rig (2002 Windsor 40PBT) from storage last week. Engine fired right up but I noticed the house batteries were completely dead. I then plugged it into shore power and it seemed to bring the batteries slightly then heard a pop sound and everything went dead. So yesterday I replaced the house batteries and now while either on generator power or shore power, the RC7 display says waiting for AC and never kicks on. BTW, I tried the inverter and it works fine. Does this sound like a transfer switch issue? Is there a fuse somewhere for this? Where is the transfer switch? Any thoughts? TIA

 

Joe

2002 Windsor 40PBT

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You have a 30 amp breaker in the 120V panel that powers the inverter/charger…cycle it a couple of times even if not tripped. Next there’s a hard to see IMG_4811.thumb.jpeg.18e36e306c4848ac4260fb55800825c4.jpeg30 amp breaker on the side of the inverter that may have opened, push it back in.

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1 minute ago, Ivylog said:

You have a 30 amp breaker in the 120V panel that powers the inverter/charger…cycle it a couple of times even if not tripped. Next there’s a hard to see IMG_4811.thumb.jpeg.18e36e306c4848ac4260fb55800825c4.jpeg30 amp breaker on the side of the inverter that may have opened, push it back in.

Thanks, I'll give that a try!

Joe

2002 Windsor 40PBT

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If he has the Trace RC7 its a Xantrex inverter like I had. I would suspect the transfer switch. Just do a search on here to see the many reasons why It needs to be changed if it hasn't been already. They original was recalled and is a fire hazard.

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Do you have this type of transfer switch, if so unplug the coach from shore power until you can open it up to look inside for loose wires and maybe burnt wiring. If you find burnt wiring leave it unplugged. Do a search on the forum for more info.

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Edited by tmw188
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1 hour ago, tmw188 said:

Do you have this type of transfer switch, if so unplug the coach from shore power until you can open it up to look inside for burnt wiring. Do a search on the forum for more info.

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I'll find out shortly if I have the Iota. It's a bit of a procedure as I have a broken shoulder currently. 😄

Joe

2002 Windsor 40PBT

 

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2 minutes ago, joecfd1 said:

I'll find out shortly if I have the Iota. It's a bit of a procedure as I have a broken shoulder currently. 😄

Joe

2002 Windsor 40PBT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I added some text to my above post. Joe until you can look at it I would leave it unplugged. Open your basement door and see if you can smell anything. 

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Turn our I have a Lyght LPT50BRD Transfer switch. Nothing looks to be burnt. I have an electrician buddy stopping by in a while to try and diagnose. Thank god I have a small wife that will fit in the storage bin...😃

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First, before you get off on a tangent, do you have any AC inside the coach?  Do the A/Cs power on, for example.  Do you have a multimeter and know how to use it?  

I doubt that this issue has anything to do with the transfer switch.

  -Rick N

Palm Desert till Sunday

 

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27 minutes ago, waterskier_1 said:

First, before you get off on a tangent, do you have any AC inside the coach?  Do the A/Cs power on, for example.  Do you have a multimeter and know how to use it?  

I doubt that this issue has anything to do with the transfer switch.

  -Rick N

Palm Desert till Sunday

 

The only time I have AC is when I turn on the inverter. The roof air's both power on but other than that, no AC in the rig at all. And yes, I'm fairly handy with a multimeter. 

Edited by joecfd1
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3 hours ago, joecfd1 said:

Turn our I have a Lyght LPT50BRD Transfer switch. Nothing looks to be burnt. I have an electrician buddy stopping by in a while to try and diagnose. Thank god I have a small wife that will fit in the storage bin...😃

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EDITED.  Remembered that the Windsor has a Subpanel.  Did not make the connection in that there will be TWO 30 Amp Breakers in the Main Panel...END OF EDIT

OK....you have a GREAT ATS.  Good News. Rick just posted a logical question.  ASSUME that you have internal power.  If you are on Generator, then all should be working.  Same for SHORE.  

You JUST POSTED...you have POWER to the MAIN Power.  SO, that narrows it down...  You need to check the 30 amp breaker on the main panel. Reset if necessary....

BUT, what you are missing is the PASS THROUGH power from the INTERNAL ATS inside the Inverter....read on....this was just a comment added after your post....

NOW....to review....  The Inverter says it is "waiting on AC", that means, I THINK, that there is NO INCOMING electricity to the Inverter.  Here is HOW it works.

You have power coming in from Shore (or Genny). That is then switched from EITHER source to the MAIN PANEL inside the MH.  The ATS does this.

Next, on that MAIN panel, there is a TWO (EDITED)  30 Amp Breakers for the Inverter. IT THEY MUST BE ON or if it is TRIPPED, then reset it.

That delivers AC to the Inverter....

UNFORTUNATELY, the pictures posted are for a MAGNUM.  You MAY have or DO have another brand.  A PICTURE would help.  The Manual (Monaco Manual) is less than informative.

Try this LINK....

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/trace-invertor-charger-258963.html

BUT, if you GOOGLE  "Trace Inverter Waiting for AC", you get this hit....

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/trace-inverter-problems-508462.html

NOT GOOD.  

OK...back to how it works.  The 30 Amp Breakers sends POWER to the Inverter.  Your Inverter MAY have a circuit Breaker or perhaps two.  We need to see pictures of it.  There are NOT any good resources, unless a fellow 2000 Windsor owner chimes in.

The 30 Amp breaker feeds or has an TWO incoming cable to the  INVERTER. Once inside, that 30 amps is "split" and you (typically) have TWO lines out.  In your case, those two lines go to a SUB PANEL near the Main panel.  There is an ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) inside the INVERTER...mounted on the main board (I believe). The ATS then stays CLOSED and it allows power, just like the LYGHT ATS, to go to the TWO outgoing Lines....which go to the Sub Panel. 

SO, if you have POWER on the Subpanel...as in...  the receptacles are working and all the other circuits, then the INVERTER is "feeding power" or passing it THROUGH.

There is NOT, to my knowledge, any "fuse".  USUALLY there is a DC fuse that protects the Batteries. That may be a large fuse or a Circuit Breaker. If THAT fuse blew, then the inverter would NOT be able to charge the batteries.  You have to start with the inverter.....follow the RED power cable....it will eventually go through a Fuse or a Resettable Circuit Breaker.

NOW....the rub or the CONFUSION.  IF the Trace is displaying VOLTAGE or giving you a READING....then ODDS are....that the fuse to the batteries is OK.  SO, the Inverter is "SEEING" or measuring the voltage. 

What is NOT happening is the Inverter's Charger is NOT WORKING.  That is a Main (USUALLY) board issue.

SO....  It needs to be trouble shot. Recently ONE member, I think, tore his apart. He had to replace the POWER BOARD....and it seems to work. BUT, if it is the MAIN BOARD....then I would think LONG and HARD about having a 22 YO Inverter rebuilt.  There is a fair amount of labor and also cost of parts.  Just putting on a NEW board is NOT everything in the Inverter.  There is another board and fans and sensors.

A LOT of folks just decide to purchase a NEW Magnum Pure Sine Wave Inverter. It is easy to install.  The AC wiring is simple. the DC wiring is simple.

A "Buddy" who understand electrical could easily do it. It DOES take a lot of electrical and electronic skills to diagnose and replace and repair or partially rebuild any inverter.  SO, look at the cost of a NEW Magnum MS2012 plus Remote.  That is all you need and it is PLUG and PLAY.  Get a cost of rebuilding the Trace based on your comments. 

https://xantrex.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/RVSeries-GS-RemoteControl_OG.pdf

If you read the manual...it says...."THERE AIN'T NO AC COMING IN".  So, there is NO 30 Amp Breaker power coming into the INVERTER.  If either of the 30 Amp Breakers are tripped, then that could be the problem. RESET. there is NOT any fuse or breaker inline.....

That means that, probably, there is an internal issue with the Inverter....

Here is a post about fixing a Freedom that another Windsor owner recently did. What I do NOT know....do you have the Freedom....if so....then read it.

 Wish there was more that could be offered....

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I have a 2002 Windsor, also have a lyght transfer switch.

I would start in the main service panel and see if you have power to the 50 amp breaker, this will require removing the cover plate.   I only have one two other breakers that provide power to the coach, one is behind the refrigerator and the other is the block heat outlet accessed from the rear of the engine. 

If you have power there then check the two 30 amp breakers that provide power to the inverter.  While you are doing this flip the breakers on/off.  The inverter should pass power through it.  If you have power when the inverter is on and power feeding the inverter the pass through function may be the problem.

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21 minutes ago, joecfd1 said:

The only time I have AC is when I turn on the inverter. The roof air's both power on but other than that, no AC in the rig at all. And yes, I'm fairly handy with a multimeter. 

Ok, what I am understanding is the roof air conditioners both power on.  This means that you are getting power through the transfer switch to the power panel.  Forget troubleshooting the the ATS.  Next, as Tom points out, the power goes through a 30-Amp breaker in the main poker panel.  Ten to the inverter.  Since you have power when the inverter is on, the 12-volt side is working.  Most inverters nave a 30-Amp input breaker and one of two 20-Amp output breakers.  Have you checker the 30-Amp input breaker?  How the power is routed from the inverter is of no consequence, since it is working properly when in inverter mode.  If i understand what you have said.correctly, the problem is between the power panel and the inverter, to include the inverter itself.  Confirm you have 110VAC to the input to the inverter. 

  - Rick N 

 

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My 2002 Windsor has two 30 amp breakers feeding the inverter from the main panel.  The inverter then has a separate breaker box with L1 & L2  breakers connections from the inverter. 

He should check each of the 30 amp breakers in the main panel to confirm they are sending power to the inverter. 

He said that when he turns the inverter on his outlets work, which means the inverter is working and sending power back to the subpanel which feeds the outlets. 

If the 30 amp breakers are feeding power to the inverter, and it is not in turn passing the power thorugh I would suspect a problem with the feed through function.

 

In 2021 I was having problems with the generator cutting out and thought it was an inverter problem.  Initially called Trace technical support, and they immediately said the inverter was bad and to replace going as far as to provide me all the info on a replacement.

I then call a service/repair shop in central TN, told him my symptoms and he said inverter was fine and to turn all the breakers off and then one by one find the circuit causing my problem and I was able it find the circuit and fix that circuit and it solve my problems. 

 

2002_Windsor_wiring_diagrams Main breaker panel.pdf

Edited by jacwjames
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If you find that it is your inverter here is the repair facility I called and talked to rep.  https://inverterservicecenter.com/

The direct number is 615-285-0611, which in White House TN

When I had my problem it wasn't the inverter but during my troubleshooting I found that the internal pass through relay is not available, luckily I didn't have to change the inverter.

 

Edited by jacwjames
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Well the plot thickens a bit. Apparently the shore power cord instead of having the typical 2-120v legs a neutral and ground had 1-120v leg, 1-240v leg and neutral and ground. We’re digging deeper into it this morning to see what we can find. I really appreciate all of your responses… Lots of great info!

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1 hour ago, joecfd1 said:

Well the plot thickens a bit. Apparently the shore power cord instead of having the typical 2-120v legs a neutral and ground had 1-120v leg, 1-240v leg and neutral and ground. We’re digging deeper into it this morning to see what we can find. I really appreciate all of your responses… Lots of great info!

Who put that receptacle in. Maybe it’s not being measured correctly. 

Edited by tmw188
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14 minutes ago, Chargerman said:

That still wouldn’t put 240 on one leg

My building is 240/120 3 phase. Two of the legs to neutral will give you 120v while the other “high leg” or “stinger leg” to neutral will give you 240 volts…

 

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2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

A photo of your shore power outlet and how it is wired would help out.

Does your coach have an EMS wired in prior to your Transfer Switch such as the Progressive Industries EMS-HW-50C?

If not you need to get one!

No EMS that I know of. The shore power is correct now but we're trying to find the damage.

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12 minutes ago, joecfd1 said:

No EMS that I know of. The shore power is correct now but we're trying to find the damage.

To accomplish that task, you need to have a set of electrical diagrams which you can download from the Monacoers site. Then start tracing where your power is correct and where it has failed.

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37 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

To accomplish that task, you need to have a set of electrical diagrams which you can download from the Monacoers site. Then start tracing where your power is correct and where it has failed.

Thanks Richard... I think I talked to you several years back... I made the new dash panels for my Windsor.

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