electrical systems 2001 windsor. no power whats so ever. no 12v no120 can't even start genny. help

[piercelarry69]

2001  windsor.    no power whats so ever. no 12v no120   can't even start genny. help

[Steve Hepfer]

Did someone accidentally hit the salesman switch?

[piercelarry69]

dont understand  were is this switch?

[John Haggard]

6 minutes ago, Steve Hepfer said:

Did someone accidentally hit the salesman switch?

The salesman switch is 12 volt only.

And only part oof 12 volt system.

[Steve Hepfer]

There should be a master kill switch by the front door. Perhaps someone with a 2001 Windsor can help you find it. There should be a banks of switches next to the passenger seat by the front door.

2 minutes ago, John Haggard said:

The salesman switch is 12 volt only.

And only part oof 12 volt system.

I didn't see the 120v part of the comment

[philcarrell]

While the salesmans switch, labeled Battery cutoff, it will not effect the starting of engine or the generator.  In the right rear bay there is 2 Battery cutogg swiths, one for chassis and one for the house batteries.  Some of the are prone to go bad but I doubt if both did at same time.  Take Volt mmeter and check for power for both in and out.  If you are plugged into 50 amp service see if you have voltage at the pedestal.  There is also a rear engine start switch in the engine compartment see if it is in the front position

[piercelarry69]

okay chcker all out still 

when engine running —— no shore power— 120 v work — 12v works.   how ever only 89 v on plug meter—=should be 120v-=— when I try turn gen on 1st get no response   than I loose inverter than I loose 120 volt— push botton for inverter all comes on again

 

 

tun engine off   all goes off

 

turn shore power on nothing   gen no responce no 12v. no120v

turn engine on 12v retored no 120v

turn shore  off with eng running —— 120 v resored 12v restored

 

still generator  no response

RV repair guy says it is inverter/charger

[philcarrell]

More than likely the transfer switch.  Have him check that first.  Could be loose lugs or if an IOTA switch should be replaced. 

 

[Dennis H]

Activate your battery boost switch and try to start the generator. Let us know what happens.

Check the breaker on your inverter and make sure it's not popped.

How proficient are you with electrical components?  Do you have and know how to use a meter?

Thanks...Dennis

[piercelarry69]

activated power boost zip nodda nothin

checked breaker nodda nothin

semi pro with meter

[philcarrell]

Have you checked battery volts with everything off

[Guest Tim503]

Realize there are two transfer switches. The gen and shore have the main one and default is gen I think. Then there is the inverter transfer switch after the supply transfer switch. If you have power with engine the alternator works and is supplying the power for inverter but batteries may be drained enough to not turn over the gen. If the engine started the gen should pull from that but not sure. Could be corroded connections somewhere.

I could see the pedestal being 90 volts if the charger is pulling all the power for the batteries. The charger might not release from the power till it gets to 80 volts. Check the volts not plugged in.

Check the batteries as a complete set then each string then each battery if 6 volt.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Tim503

[Dennis H]

The reason I asked about any expertise with electrical is you don't want to go messing with things that can curl your hair or worse.  That said:

You say you checked the 'breaker' and it's ok. Is this breaker on the inverter or the breaker box? There should be a button breaker on the inverter itself. It's often overlooked because of it's small size and only a push type breaker. The breakers inside the breaker box sometimes can also appear to be ok when they're not. Turn off all the breakers inside the box and turn them back on to reset them. If that doesn't fix things, then you'll have to dig deeper.  So, start at the beginning and start tracing things. You've checked the fuses with a meter, so it appears you've got some knowledge so that's a leg up. Start with your battery bank and check all the wiring to make sure your cables are clean and tight. Batteries are fully charged. Now look in the battery bay for a fuse. It should be somewhere close to the battery hookup. Ensure that fuse is ok.  Use your meter and walk forward from your battery bank. This should help you identify where the loss of power is....hope this helps...Dennis

EDIT: I forgot to include this, so I'm doing it now. This is the service manual for my transfer switch....D

 

Intellitec Transfer Switch.pdf

Edited July 12, 2020 by Dennis H

[Guest Tim503]

6 hours ago, piercelarry69 said:

okay chcker all out still 

when engine running —— no shore power— 120 v work — 12v works.   how ever only 89 v on plug meter—=should be 120v-=— when I try turn gen on 1st get no response   than I loose inverter than I loose 120 volt— push botton for inverter all comes on again

 

 

tun engine off   all goes off

 

turn shore power on nothing   gen no responce no 12v. no120v

turn engine on 12v retored no 120v

turn shore  off with eng running —— 120 v resored 12v restored

 

still generator  no response

RV repair guy says it is inverter/charger

I just want to say at the top it says engine running you have 120v. Down farther it says turn engine on 12v restored no 120v

Which is it? It sounds like drained batteries. You also say 89v on plug meter. Not sure if you mean inside which a barely operating inverter could put out or if that is at the main power source or pedestal.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Tim503

[Guest Tim503]

I think I deciphered it. If the 89v is the meter by the front door that is coming from the main circuit panel. You should have another for the inverter. So the shore power is at 89 which is barely enough to operate things. I'm not sure if the inverter will transfer at 89v. When you try to start the gen it sucks so much power that it won't turn over but causes the inverter to shut down along with the 120v inverter circuits. Are you using electricity for the water heater? I would turn it off.  If you are using the 6 gauge wire in the main cable for the power it could be the plug or if in a park in California it sounds like you are close to a brownout. How long has it been sitting with the inverter on?

If you are running both AC units or even one and the 89 volt show up the inverter went back to battery without you even knowing it. Once the batteries drained it shut down and no power for the gen. You could try with engine running everything possible off, then use the combiner switch and see if gen will start. It may take an hour or two of engine running to get enough volts into the batteries. You could get a battery and jump the gen from it and by pass the other stuff. Remember an inverter charger can only operate in one direction at a time. If it is running off batteries it will not charge them. You could start the toad and jump the gen or just hook it up to the house batteries.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Tim503

[Guest Tim503]

As most people don't watch the power levels the fix would be the automatic generator start if you have that. It would see the low battery and started the gen. The main transfer would switch to the default position and reset the AC units that should restart in a few minutes. The meter would then show 120v even though you are still plugged in. The inverter would go to pass through and charge the batteries. The only issue is you don't know the power level on the pedestal. When you can switch back to shore power.

Other things is to buy cheap lighted volt meters from Amazon and install them by the panel wired into it from behind so you can see them from across the room. If you have a Magnum with remote it has LEDs but they basically just reverse position of on and blinking depending on the operation and still would have to look and understand it. You can keep the display lit all the time and it won't take too much power. Otherwise you have to press a button. Check your manual you can also change what volts it switches but I believe default is 100 volts. You could put it to 80 volts and everything might operate, but is not optimal of course. The reason for the lower setting is some generators will bog down to a low voltage and then your inverter would switch back and forth. I think most things will work on lower voltage but the microwave will take longer.

[Guest Tim503]

This 89 volt power issue is the problem with having an inverter charger combined. The inverter is useless until it reads a certain voltage. Buy a IOTA 55 amp 12 volt charger from Don Rowe and plug it into the washer dryer plug and connect it to the inverter inputs. It can be a back up power supply and the charger in the inverter can compensate. In fact I went to a 24 volt system and use a 30 amp 12 volt IOTA to power all 12 volt systems without a battery. It is nice because you don't get the slow running motors and the delay start florescent when the voltage goes low. The nominal output is only 13.5 so it won't fry you batteries.

[Ivan K]

From everything I can read from Larry's description, he only gets any kind of voltages while the alternator is running, like if the house batteries were totally out of the picture (dead, disconnected, whatever). As I understand, the generator never started. The alternator feeds the inverter which then is producing 89V on his meter. If true, then ~89V  may be ok because no cheap voltmeter can read modified sine correctly. Mine reads 102v and I know that it is OK. His generator won't start because the alternator alone may not produce enough starting amps, along with feeding the inverter etc. Batteries, if even connected, won't charge because there is no AC for the charger function. Alternator should charge them but not a good idea if totally dead. The inverter will shut down while generator starting because the alternator can't  keep the  minimum voltage while all its amperage goes to the starter. Wishes circle. 

Now, why the boost switch won't help start the generator, if the above scenario holds true, there is no power to activate the boost solenoid, unless done with the engine running... all of this based on not enough information and a lot of assumptions.

Why there is no AC from the pedestal is an other issue with possible solutions already listed. For instance running an airconditioner does not even require presence of the inverter so that makes me question that suspicion. At least in my configuration. Should have added that it still needs a battery power tho, which there isn't, but should be when the engine runs... and that could prove the main ATS, cable, breakers and pedestal. But there is no substitution for voltage reading on bothe ends of the system. Something the tech may have already done to come to his conclusion.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Ivan K

[piercelarry69]

4So after spending 3 days at the Rv store     they changed the  inverter/charger   an guess what nothing different.  no change  so i got loud. will a. an expert shows up tinker here volt meter there.  He  says to me why this here switch is bad causing my problem       So change the on off switch for house battery.         an whaaaamy all is well.    except 3083.00bill

thanks all for responding

Edited July 14, 2020 by piercelarry69

[Guest Tim503]

Did they check your 89 volt meter reading?

[philcarrell]

1 hour ago, piercelarry69 said:

4So after spending 3 days at the Rv store     they changed the  inverter/charger   an guess what nothing different.  no change  so i got loud. will a. an expert shows up tinker here volt meter there.  He  says to me why this here switch is bad causing my problem       So change the on off switch for house battery.         an whaaaamy all is well.    except 3083.00bill

thanks all for responding

Pretty sure I suggested this several days ago.  Glad it’s fixed

[jacwjames]

Can you provide the name/location of the "RV Store" so I can avoid it, seems like they need better technicians.  (unless the store is owned by an accountant the wants more $$ instead of satisfied customers)

This happen to me on the chassis side, lost all power to the dash.  I started at the batteries and started checking voltage.  Batteries were good but I did not get any voltage through the rotary disconnect switch, bypassed it which temporarily gave me power to operate.  This took me 30 minutes!    I then ordered 2 of these switches since one is used on the 12 volt side to keep one as a spare.  Cost me ~$100. 

[Dr4Film]

Sometimes our educational lessons are VERY expensive. You just don't want to have a LOT of those lessons!

I ran into a similar experience with a "new" Cummins service tech in Anchorage AK working on my coach. When he went to start the engine, NADA. I then suggested making sure the Chassis Battery Disconnect Rotary Switch was OK. They then told me to mind my own business. Well after hours of troubleshooting it ended up to be the very same switch I said to check. They attempted to charge me for the hours and I told them no way. They eventually compromised.

[piercelarry69]

12 hours ago, Tim503 said:

Did they check your 89 volt meter reading?

an it reads 119v

26 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Sometimes our educational lessons are VERY expensive. You just don't want to have a LOT of those lessons!

I ran into a similar experience with a "new" Cummins service tech in Anchorage AK working on my coach. When he went to start the engine, NADA. I then suggested making sure the Chassis Battery Disconnect Rotary Switch was OK. They then told me to mind my own business. Well after hours of troubleshooting it ended up to be the very same switch I said to check. They attempted to charge me for the hours and I told them no way. They eventually compromised.

I can't afford it.  this is the 3rd

27 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Sometimes our educational lessons are VERY expensive. You just don't want to have a LOT of those lessons!

I ran into a similar experience with a "new" Cummins service tech in Anchorage AK working on my coach. When he went to start the engine, NADA. I then suggested making sure the Chassis Battery Disconnect Rotary Switch was OK. They then told me to mind my own business. Well after hours of troubleshooting it ended up to be the very same switch I said to check. They attempted to charge me for the hours and I told them no way. They eventually compromised.

wish i saw this afew days ago

12 hours ago, philcarrell said:

Pretty sure I suggested this several days ago.  Glad it’s fixed

yep u sure did except i thought. there was some kinda switch near  inverter.  did not expect it in the a rotory switch