Steven 53 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2004 windsor w/smart wheel keep replacing 25 amp fuse in front bay. Setting in storage lot doing work on mh. Replaced fuse headlights work h/l beams pulled dash to look at switch ( po Replaced switch) pushed light icon on wheel hb on dash blinks off and on also wiper icon same note key is off. When I bought mh took a trip no headlights pulled off road to check Replaced fuse blue again drove with fog lights to a Walmart parked wait for daylight. The mh had some kind of led lights installed in old headlights. Fast forward bought new headlights assembly thought too much draw for leds lights. Now chasing the problem. Help much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Sorry, can't help you but good luck chasing down what the previous owner most likely could never fix. Downloading your wiring diagram for your coach would be the FIRST thing I would do. Then peruse through them to view the diagrams pertaining to the headlights, etc. The diagrams are in the download section of this site. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven 53 Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 Yes I have the original factory wiring diagram booklet but it has nothing 0n headlight wiring just my luck. Maybe a different model year will have it. I will look through the downloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaz996 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 I would suggest wiring a relay in to run just the headlights. The switch can run the running lights fine but both create a lot of heat. (resistance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 You might be able to narrow down the problem by unplugging one of the headlights at a time Also, my coach had a DLR (day light running) light relay in the front drivers side run bay, you might try unplugging that if you have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven 53 Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 Both good ideas. Where in line to put relay in the dash from light switch. Or some place else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 53 minutes ago, Steven 53 said: Both good ideas. Where in line to put relay in the dash from light switch. Or some place else? Better to put the relay closer to the lights themselves. Use the existing headlight wire as the trigger wire and then run a new heavier gauge power wire tapping into the power at the most convenience point, put an in line fuse on the new wire. I did something different, the lower fog lights on my rig saw their better days. So I replaced with LED running lights. I bypassed the DRL relay and can control the new lights with the switch on the dash. I can use these without my other lights and do a better job of lighting the roadway. I aimed them toward the passenger side road as not to upset oncoming drivers. Prior to doing this I had a hard time driving at night. Last trip it was much better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 22 minutes ago, jacwjames said: Better to put the relay closer to the lights themselves. Use the existing headlight wire as the trigger wire and then run a new heavier gauge power wire tapping into the power at the most convenience point, put an in line fuse on the new wire. I did something different, the lower fog lights on my rig saw their better days. So I replaced with LED running lights. I bypassed the DRL relay and can control the new lights with the switch on the dash. I can use these without my other lights and do a better job of lighting the roadway. I aimed them toward the passenger side road as not to upset oncoming drivers. Prior to doing this I had a hard time driving at night. Last trip it was much better. OK…here is what others have done. First…you need TWO Bosch 5 Pin relays. You need Sockets with #12 Wire. Do a little hunting….Amazon has them BOTH. I buy the REAL OEM Bosch relays….they are often listed as 87/87A. Order 2 inline (blade type) fuse holders. MUST BE #12 (or 10) wire… NOW this assumes you have separate BULBS….in that there is ONE Bulb for the LOW and ONE for the High. There is two wires that come off the HI/LO switch. Find them. One goes to the LOW and one goes to the HIGH. Unplug them. Test them. When the blue indicator light is ON….one will have 12 VDC. Likewise when you go to LOW, you should have power to the LOW. NOW if a single bulb, it will be a 3 wire….one will be HIGH….the other is LOW the LOW will alsways be ppwered….the High is switched. You can also just use a VOM and do some probing at the headlight housing. Either setup….you have to locate the power to the LOW and the HIGH. Here’s the circuit. Pins 85 and 86 are the relay coil terminals. Ground out either 85 or 86. Lets say 85 will be the ground. Then run the Low beam signal or power to the 86. Now when you turn on the headlight switch….the LOW beam wire energizes the Relay. Likewise, run the HIGH beam power to the other relay….Pin 86. You need to locate the HOT CHASSIS STUD up front. I would put a crimped ring terminal on one side of each Fuse Holder. The OTHER Side or the FUSED side of the inline holder goes to PIN 30 of each relay. So we have ONE 20 Amp fused lead connected to Pin 30 of each relay. OK….NOW it is assumed you have marked each relay…..LOW and HIGH. Pin 87 is where you attach the leasd going to each circuit or bulbs. HIGH beam wire ( which you cut) goes to Pin 87 of the HIGH beam relay….and the LOW BEAM wire, to the Low beam headlights goes to pin 87 of the LOW BEAM relay. The relay now switches on or off the headlights. Each power feed to each relay has a 20 A fused connection. BINGO….you have FULL Power as in when the engine is running, you will have almost 14 VDC….and NO internal resisatnce. That works……many folks have done it…..probably way over a Hundred….so not some “maybe this will work). If the main fuse blows….something is a miss in the switch. If the new inline blows….you have a short or a chafed wire in the housing… DO IT and let us know….this is the ULTIMATE mod to brighten up the poor headlights. BTW… this works for an LED Bulb….SOME are polarity sensitive….you reverse the plug…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 If you install the headlight relay mod you could still be blowing fuses . . . . There's a white 6 pin molex style jumper plug under the dash that many have had trouble with the contacts burning out. They should be under the dash but I found mine inside the steering housing. This plug is inline with the headlight circuit. 💡 Poor contacts won't blow the fuse but it does make a good place to pull the jumper apart and see if the fuse still blows. If it does, your short is upstream from that plug. If the fuse doesn't blow you can take an ohm meter and, with the headlights disconnected, start troubleshooting for the short. 🔎 Keep us posted. We all love a good mystery. - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven 53 Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 Will be going back to mh tomorrow. Pulled cover around steering colum before I left today to see wiring harness and saw some one has done some splicing and ran different wires into the dash and some were else these wires have numbers on the wires that's original. I figure they go to smart wheel. My lights are single bulb tested red high beam blue low beam. Put new fuse in went back and forth h/l multiple times lights still work same using smart buttons. Checked voltage at headlights 12.8 volts engine not running. Possible problem when driving and turning steering wheel. Back at it tomorrow be nice to have wiring diagram to work with from switch to wheel to lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 3 hours ago, Steven 53 said: Will be going back to mh tomorrow. Pulled cover around steering colum before I left today to see wiring harness and saw some one has done some splicing and ran different wires into the dash and some were else these wires have numbers on the wires that's original. I figure they go to smart wheel. My lights are single bulb tested red high beam blue low beam. Put new fuse in went back and forth h/l multiple times lights still work same using smart buttons. Checked voltage at headlights 12.8 volts engine not running. Possible problem when driving and turning steering wheel. Back at it tomorrow be nice to have wiring diagram to work with from switch to wheel to lights. @Steven 53 OK....here what you need, or the closest that I think there is. This is from my 2009 Camelot. However the VIP wheel was probably the same... Look at the print below. This is the "CLONE" of what Monaco did.... You will see the VIP heel circuit on the left side. Remember that I told you to find the output from the HI/LO switch. That is the LAST switch before you get to the Headlights. That is why you want to find the output of it and use it for the relays. Adding the RELAYS always improves the headlight performance....and it takes a LOAD off the HI/LO switch....I would do that no matter what....and many have and were very happy with the results. When you measure voltage....it needs to be the LOAD. yes...12.8 or so is great...but WHAT is the voltage at the bulb socket. How about some folks have measured in the mid 10's....so always measure LOAD voltage or when the device is ON....that goes for every current drawing device on the MH. YES....there may be other issues. I stated to pull the wires or the harness on each headlight or bulb and TEST the circuits. I agree with folks about the connector. There have also been issues in the harnesses from the steering column to the outside. BUT, these were NOT WORKING..... as on a faulty connection or an open circuit.... Never BLOWING FUSES. One final helpful thing....the TROUBLE SHOOTING GUIDE. You can use this to TEST or check the VIP circuit. UNFORTUNATELY, well meaning but uniformed former owners or at least a small to middle percentage of techs also do NOT understand and don't want to look at prints or troubleshoot or understand. They probe and find wires and then figure... "Hey, I'm smarter than the Engineer that designed it." YES, there are a few circuits on the Monaco that defy logic and YES, I think that I could do better....but no one asked. SO....study the print. Then study the troubleshooting guide. I would VERIFY that the VIP controller and the outputs are correct. IF NOT....Time to get it fixed or get a new one.... YES, you might be able to reconstruct what was undone....but try to follow the print and use "needles" or straight pins and test the various wires. Good Luck... TWO of the best resources that you need to really fix it. Keep us posted... Headlights and Fog lights.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycarz Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Double check the wires going to/from HI/LO column switch. I have seen three coaches with this issue. You might get lucky. Regardless of where you find the fault, headlight relays would be in order once the fault is repaired. Your coach may or might not have the white wires to the HI/LO beam switch. The ones with the white wire had labels and circuit numbers. Those numbers for that circuit seemed to be consistent with different models. Hopefully, the pictures will help. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven 53 Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 Okay just wired in my 2 bosh relays and inline 20 amp fuses one for each relays still have some tiding up to do. That's for another day mid 90 now been in sun most of the day except when in generator bay. Headlights work both hi/low took few days for my stuff to come in. Hopefully tomorrow take for a test run with lights on and see if any fuses blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 hours ago, Steven 53 said: Okay just wired in my 2 bosh relays and inline 20 amp fuses one for each relays still have some tiding up to do. That's for another day mid 90 now been in sun most of the day except when in generator bay. Headlights work both hi/low took few days for my stuff to come in. Hopefully tomorrow take for a test run with lights on and see if any fuses blow. Great. Now….if they blow or have issues….I’d pull the Positive (signal) wires from each relay. Or pop out relays. That will totally “disconnect” the leads from the HI/LO sowtch. Then drive and test and such. Still got an issue….it is UPSTREAM….of course….assuming the HI/LO switch is OK. Then disconnect the power from the HI/LO switch…..keep working your way backwards or upstream. If one of the inline fuses pops…issues in the Headlight housings or in the harness. YES…working on MH’s provides one to make repairs in sometimes “exotic” locales….or in non hospitable climate conditions…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven 53 Posted May 6 Author Share Posted May 6 Well went to compound it get mh. Zipped tied relays to secure so no movement turned on headlights flip h/l several times started mh let it air to ride hight pulled headlight switch no blue light high beam shut down mh went to fuse box and fuse was blown. Relays fuses were fine probably smart wheel is the problem. Might do work around for switch to relays to try that just Might be my fix for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven 53 Posted May 6 Author Share Posted May 6 Just got home thinking about problem. When the mh not running headlights work. Never had a problem with cruse/wipers while driving just headlights. park turn signals work fine. Probably need to follow the splicing on wiring coming from smart wheel. Hard to figure it happens when running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 hour ago, Steven 53 said: Well went to compound it get mh. Zipped tied relays to secure so no movement turned on headlights flip h/l several times started mh let it air to ride hight pulled headlight switch no blue light high beam shut down mh went to fuse box and fuse was blown. Relays fuses were fine probably smart wheel is the problem. Might do work around for switch to relays to try that just Might be my fix for now. OK...Steve and I talked. To summarize... He has has issues in the past. He can replace the MAIN Headlight Fuse...that 25 A drives or sends switched power via the Main Headlight Relay. He can put in a new fuse. ALL IS WELL. BUT, the moment he starts the engine....blows the 25 Amp fuse. Please look at this print...posted before. We have had ONE instance....or maybe two. A VIP Wheel MH had a Relay in the Daytime Running Lights socket. For WHATEVER REASON. That killed the MAIN Power Fuse. Did NOT kill the 15 Amp fuse going to the VIP and the Headlight switch. NOTE...that the Headlight Relay gets its COIL power from the Headlight DRIVER Relay below. OK....bear with me and this is more of a WHAT IF than a pure analysis. Notice that there is a 15 Amp fuse providing power to the light switch as well as the VIP controller. Therefore you can send a signal or power UP to the input of the Headlight Relay....and that 15 Amps would briefly power the headlights or the clearance lights and such. If there is a dead short somewhere in the controller and that power line is shorted....100% when engine is running. BINGO...it also backfeeds the headlight 25 Amp fuse. AGAIN...I'm just trying to wrap my head around it...so if anyone has more knowledge...please jump in here. Steve needs HEADLIGHTS. The temporary work around. He removes the output (Terminal 30) from the Headlight Relay. He attaches a fused (5 A) HOT Chassis lead to it. NOW, he has power to the HI/LO switch. His LOW beams will come on. He can switch to HIGHT. He will test... THEN start the engine....and pull out the headlight switch to PARK. REMEMBER....when he blows the 25 Amp fuse....the parking and clearance lights STILL WORK.... SO, he installs a simple home light switch in a handy box....double stick taped to a convenient location. When he drives at night....he turns ON the headlights like one would do "aux" driving lights. The control circuit is now hot to the HI/LO and he can dim and drive. I THINK this will work. Steve is on board and will test. ANY IDEAS WHERE the Ignition ON or RUNNING "GROUND" signal is coming from? Headlights and Fog lights.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven 53 Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 I'm back to tell what I have done to get my headlights working. Thanks to Tom for the phone call. After running a separate fused wire to both relays I now have hb/lb working went for test drive to get propane filled for trip. Back at storage lot decided to make a permanent repair and ordered a back lit hb/lb rocker switch and USB plugs also got a piece of abs and make a panel. Took out dash vent that had hose removed so I was a dud and put panel there. Still have to pull headlights switch 1/2 way to get other lights to come on. While running the new wiring to new panel I found a piece of note paper down in wiring mess showing headlights switch plug so as you can see there's been a problem long before I owned this mh probably smart wheel. Going to try to post pic's. That's for all the help down for now but not out. Going to figure out this fall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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