Extensive facelift, paint, and new electronics for a 2000 Monaco Diplomat

[Steven P]

Nicely done!  Looks like you are ready for another project.  I volunteer mine!!

[StellaTariche]

Shhhhhsh.

The Fetching Mrs. Taylor’s wifey radar will hear us

🙂 

 

[RNMCBR]

John,

Really impressive work. I appreciate your comments about boomers passing skills on to kids. I did that with mine too and now they can outdo me.

Regarding your paint job, it looks like you may have used a mask. If so, how/where did you get that laid out and cut? I have the dreaded spider cracking on my rear cap and will need to grind it down below the graphics to fix it. I would like to restore the graphics to near original. A custom mask would make that much easier.

Thanks in advance for any info/ hints/suggestions.

Roy

[StellaTariche]

RE: Paint Masks for RV

Hi Roy,

Yup, the mask is the way to go.

I used a company called Graphics RV. http://graphicsrv.com/

Contact Steve Messenger: stevem@graphicsrv.com

Things I learned:

• The masks (4 rolls per side + front/back) are expensive, but worth it.
• Contrasting Outlines around the large graphics (“1/2 Pins” in Steve’s vernacular) are an interesting issue: I had to paint them first before applying the mask, without knowing exactly where the pins would be (Steve can explain the problem better, and probably has a better solution than mine). This simple method would be to prime everything, then paint the entire area where any of the outlines will be with the outline color, BUT that wastes a lot of *very* expensive paint. And, in complicated graphics, the pins are different colors (drop shadow areas, contrasting overlapping pins, etc).
• So instead, I hung the masks, marked underneath them where the pins would be, removed the masks, painted large (6”) swathes of the pin color(s), re-hung the masks, then painted the rest.
• It really helped to have 4 strong people on ladders and scaffolding to hang (and re-hang) and peel the masks.
• There is a reason a Prevost paint job costs >$80k minimum...
• The masks are first taped together to make sure they align - tricky even on the ground, impossible in the side of an RV by a non-professional.
• Each taped together side mask weighs almost 80 lbs. The tape you use to align the masks as well as hang them from the roof must be really strong. I used gorilla tape.
• There are no do-overs. Our masks costs > $600.
• You paint in the opposite order than you think you should.
• Things that are really easy to do in photoshop ( gradients, fades, drop shadows ) are MUCH harder to do with automotive paint.
• Good automotive paint, with good UV rated clear coat is ungodly expensive. My cost for 3M triazact sand paper, tape, grease remover ( judiciously at every step), primer, paint, clear coat, reducers, hardeners, tack rags, masking paper and paint cleaners was >$7000 in materials (Sherman Williams top of the line, with a professional discount).
  Labor was cheaper because College kids understand slave wages vs tuition 🙂 
• a good big paint booth with a big compressor, lighting, and down draft ventilation is a must. Hard to find too. I lucked out and found an unusual situation and paid $200 a month for two months.
• Rolling scaffolding is a must. Can’t do It with ladders alone. Home Depot and Lowes have a $200 unit that will work.
• Even pros get orange peel. I am far from a pro. The difference is in the final sanding of the clear coats (2 thick ones). Trizact sand paper (1500, 3000, 5000) then two grades of polishing compounds will take you longer than the prep and painting. On a 40’ coach, that comes out to 1100 sq ft of polished painted surface.
• Spraying metallics is much harder than solid colors. MUCH HARDER. Everything on my rig that is not black is a metallic. 
• There are 200 shades of black at Sherwin Williams. Save your paint codes.
• Two good HVLP guns are a must, each with multiple tips and needles - Large surfaces, and small things like trim, awning parts, stuff.
• a portable 5 stage HVLP unit will work, but expensive (>$1000 + guns, filters). Otherwise the minimum compressor tank size is 60 gallon. I had a 300 gallon air tank that came with the booth.
• Protect your lungs, skin and eyes from everything involving paint and sanded gel coats.

Airbrushing the details make a huge difference:

Re: gel coat checking:

• Roy, originally, I had no checking on mine, primarily because it was all white gel coat with lighter color graphics. BUT, after painting parts of it it black (rear cap “window” for example) and having that area exposed to the sun for several years, there are now gel coat cracks and spiderwebs. And, I’ve been told they will return even after filling if you use dark paint.
• Many of our coaches of that vintage had the same issues gel coat issues.
• I plan on addressing them when I repaint some lower baggage doors that jumped out and hit the neighbor’s bumper 😞 

Regarding air brushing:

• airbrush the drop shadows and any other fancy stuff after paint, but before clear coating. I am pretty good with an airbrush, and it was still hard.
• Your local college will have art students who are excellent with an airbrush, and cheap. Commission them to help with the fancy stuff.
• Little details that you can do with an airbrush make a huge difference. Not hard to learn, but if you want to do it yourself, you’ll want to practice. A lot.  
• Painted cardboard is a great way to learn. Tape, masks, stencils and rulers make even an amateur look great.
• Below are photos of two projects I did for my youngest son (Jackson, now 21).
• Time Machine: He volunteered me to make a “Time Machine” for a school event. All the flat areas are airbrushed. The whole things is cardboard. All the other stuff is just hot glued on to the cardboard. I am now good at painting fake rivets 🙂 . Gears are done with a stencil I got online.
• Caboose Bed: Every kid needs a Caboose Bed, right? All of the 3D stuff is airbrushed on flat cabinet grade plywood. I used 1" round stickers and 1" hole stencil to do many, many rivets. Drop shadows were done with a piece of cardboard as a straight edge. Diamond plate is with a $10 airbrush stencil I got online.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can provide any other details.

- John

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by StellaTariche

[StellaTariche]

Here is where I got the custom Uberbounder logo done.  They can make anything that you can draw, or they have standard fonts and icons.

https://domedlettering.com/chrome/

(Running joke:  Our first RV was a 1997 Bounder.  Not quite "Breaking Bad" looking, but not a Prevost either. So obviously the Re-done Diplomat had to be named "Uberbounder", right?    🙂 ) 

- John

[RNMCBR]

Thanks John,

Fortunately I only have the rear cap to do and the only area with spiderweb cracks is the black swoosh. I know it might crack again after painting but it’s impossible to get a good finish without sealing the area well enough to cover over the cracks. Otherwise the cracks get amplified. 
 

I’ve painted before so am familiar with the application of 2 stage finish. I bought Diamont paint at Space Age in Pheonix and previously repaired blistered clear on the tops of both caps. I glassed over the seams and repainted down to the windshield and the camera in the back. I also previously repainted half of my 99 Winnebago including duplicating the decals. But manually masking the rear graphics on the Monaco looms as a little more difficult. 

I do have a nice gun and a 175psi 2-stage 80gal compressor with a fairly good filter/regulator setup. But will probably paint it outside under my rv cover. That’s what I did before and it went ok. The weather here in Sacramento can be ok for outside painting. 

But I am in no way an expert and I sincerely appreciate all your hints and insights. I know I will need to sand down as deep as possible to get as much of the cracking out as possible. Space Age recommended I then try squeegeeing some resin into the remaining cracks followed by epoxy primer. I doubt this will totally solve the problem but hope it will at least let me get a smooth topcoat. 
 

thanks for all the detailed information. I’m also intrigued by your camera setup. I may do something like that as well. 
 

Have fun with your boys. I’ve done a bunch of remodeling, car maintenance, furniture building, etc. with both my son and daughter and it is very rewarding to work with my kids.

Regards,

Roy

 

 

 

[StellaTariche]

Hi Roy,

Apologies for my overly detailed posts and replies.

My thinking was, with the various levels of expertise on the board, more experienced people like you will just skim through it, picking up what you need.

And those that want more details (or want to know the answer to “that looks easy, How hard could it possibly be” get fair warning from those of us with the scars.

🙂

And yes, that camera system is truly amazing.

[RNMCBR]

John,

I truly appreciate you taking the time to reply with details. You have done some impressive work. Makes me want to get going!

 Cheers

Roy

[Scotty Hutto]

John,

I’ve received my 360° camera system and am planning my install. I’ve read through the szDalos manual and your instructions (THANK YOU!), but would love to see a few pics of your camera locations and wiring on the roof - if only to validate my thinking.  😉

Also, on the wire loom, when you say small and large, is that the 1/4” and 1/2”, or did you go larger?

[StellaTariche]

Hi Scott,

Let me try to find actual roof photos for you.

in the interim her is a description:

Rear camera: mounted just above or below the typical rear Monaco camera indent. Wire goes into the end cap and comes out the air intake on the roof. Run the wire up the center, using dicor and 3m tape backed wire holders with small zip ties

side cameras: depends on your slide configuration and your fridge chimney. My setup has the one big slide on the driver’s side, and the fridge is on the passenger side.

Passenger side camera: mounted about 6” below the roof belt line, under and clear of the rolled up awning.  Wire is wrapped in insulated metal foil tape and goes up the chimney for about a foot. Exit though the vent cap, run the the center to meet the rear and driver’s side cable.

‘Driver’s side cable (big slide side):  trickier. I mounted the camera on the slide, left 2.5’ of slack (hidden by the slide awning). I put 2 pieces of 2”x2” clear canvas repair tape on both sides of the slide awning where I punched a small hole and put in a grommet. The wire will show as it passes over the roof radius, so after sheathing it in UV protected woven sleeve ( polypropylene) I rattle canned it to match the paint. Almost invisible from all angles.   Runt that to the center to meet the other two wires.

Sleeving: I used the 1/4” for each individual cable (takes a while, and buy a big roll). After the three wires meet in the middle of the roof, I used 3/4” to sleeve the already sleeved individual cables.

Front cable: as close to the windshield without going through the glass. It will pop out behind your front cabinet, although you may need to cut a hole in the front cabinet back to fish it out.

I have solar on the roof, so I zipped the camera cables to the solar cables for neatness.  No cross talk either.

The three camera cables (rear, left, right) enter where my old dish antenna was. WireGuard makes a sealable roof plate for the cables to enter.

Bundle and run all the wires down through the driver’s side A pillar (flexes and comes out with removal of a few screws). While you are there, run another HDMI cable from under the dash up to your main TV monitor (a or stereo receiver- I use regular home Onkyo equipment instead of car stereo amps, and a small separate 400w inverter mounted in the front electrical bay to power just the Wifi system, camera, stereo and sub woofer.  That way I can leave just that low loss inverter on instead of my main 3000w inverter. 

Tie into the power and ground under the dash.I tied mine into the left and right turn signals, but not the backup, as I have another camera dedicated to just the backup and hitch. I tapped the 12v from the dash radio power, as my dash radio is really another monitor for the dedicated rear/hitch camera.

The 360 system accepts memory cards and USB drives, either of which record everything like a dvr.  Make the control unit it accessible because mem cards and usb drives have a limited life (years, but still).  You will want to back up your settings, especially the calibration settings, for when something dies.  That way you can replace the controller or mem card and not have to re-calibrate.  Also useful if in an accident for insurance  

another, more robust option is to use a small portable ssd drive (64G is, I think, the max size). They support many more write cycles than a good mem card or usb thumb drive.

Monitor(s): I used the 10” monitor that they sell, and use the HDMI cable.  I put in an HDMI splitter too, so I can see the 360 camera in my main TV, and since I have the front and rear TVs connected with an HDMI cable, I can use the 360 system as a security camera (the night vision is awesome).

Notice that you can barely see the small painted camera. And the dash display lines up like a video game when you drive. It in no way blocks your vision 

[Scotty Hutto]

Thanks so much!  I have three slides, so my sides will be a little different.  I’m about to go do some maintenance, take pictures and measurements…

I’ll post my results when I get ‘er done.

Scotty

[Yoaks5]

That camera set up looks very cool and helpful! It's one of the upgrades I'm planning to do this winter. 

Thanks for the detailed write up John... I'll be stealing a lot of your design 😀.

[frankogrly]

It appears you live in Colorado as I do. I will swap my 01 Endeavor for your Uberbounder. LOL Great job, you are highly skilled and created a fantastic coach.

Frank O

01 Endeavor

[waterskier_1]

On 9/18/2021 at 10:23 AM, Scotty Hutto said:

Thanks so much!  I have three slides, so my sides will be a little different.  I’m about to go do some maintenance, take pictures and measurements…

I’ll post my results when I get ‘er done.

Scotty

Scotty, I have purchased the same camera system for my 2005 Exec.  It has 3 slides all with Girard Slide Toppers, which looked like a good place to mount the cameras.  That way I wouldn't have the problem of mounting it on the slide itself (although that would not give good coverage when parked with the slides out).  I talked with John about this, and he though that might be okay.  I was up on the ladder looking closer, and I'm not sure how stable a mounting surface that would yield.  John has said that if the camera gets bumped or slightly out of position, a complete re-calibration is required.  I measured where the cameras would go if they were exactly half way between the front and rear.  My coach measures approximately 41' 2" from bumper to bumper.  That means the half-way point would be 20'7".  I then measured from the front to the rear of slide on each side.  One side is 22'6" and and the other side is 18' 6".  I did all kinds of calculations looking at the percent difference between mounting just behind the slide on the body of the coach, and ended up with several Excel pages, but none told me how much the software could handle.  I again talked to John, and he said he wouldn't worry about not  being perfectly half-way.  He mentioned that these camera kits were originally developed for automobiles and were to be mounted in the side view mirrors.  Obviously the side view mirrors are not 1/2 between the front and rear.  So, my approach will be to mount the cameras just aft of the longer slide, and I think I'll match the other side camera the same distance, even though I could mount it closer to the 1/2 way point.  I think it might be easier for the calibration process if both side cameras are the same distance from the front.

Next I considered the method John used to get the camera cables into the coach.  I currently have a 8" x 8" junction box mounted on my roof near the refrigerator vent that has 1-1/2" PVC conduit running through the refer vent cavity into the bay below.  I have several cable runs going through this conduit - 3 solar cable runs, and wifi ranger cables for the external wifi ranger system.  I have room to run through that conduit, which would get me into the basement, and then could take off the bay ceiling panels and run the cable up front.  But John also mentioned something:  The "brains" should be easily accessible so you can get the SD card with recording out in a hurry incase you need to provide to police/law enforcement.  That brought me to the next question: Where do I want to mount the "brains".  I considered mounting it in the overhead up front like John did, but my cabinets up front are really small.  I have a ceiling mount TV so the front cabinets didn't have to house a TV like many do.  I looked at how I would get the camera cables to the "brains", and also how I would get the HDMI cable to the monitor, and where I would mount the monitor.  I purchased a 10" monitor, and decided to mount it to the bottom of the front overhead cabinets.  I found a mount that will fold 90° so it would be out of the way.  It wouldn't be in the way in any case.  So, now I know the monitor location, I took out the vanity panels on the drop down TV and tried to figure out how to get the camera cables into the front overhead cabinets.  On my old Dynasty, I could see the roof up front including the clearance lights, but not on this Exec.  It's full of insulation.  The overhead cabinets don't have a removable ceiling, they appear to be boxes that were screwed together and mounted as a unit.  So, I looked at other options.  I have a small cabinet on the upper side just above and aft of where the driver's head would be.  I can't visually see the roof from it, but I'm pretty sure I can drill straight down from the roof into this area.  So, I think that's where the brain will live.  I'll have to run power, and backup/turn signal wires up to it, which I think I can do through the A-Pilar and then from cabinet to cabinet up high inside each cabinet.  The same with the HDMI cable, it will go through cabinets, and might have a slight exposure between the side cabinets and the front cabinets and it makes the turn into the upper forward cabinets and then down through the back or bottom to the monitor.  That pretty much decided, I will route the wires with the same "sleeve" that John used, with 1/4" covering the rear camera to approximately the mid-point, each side camera with the same to that mid point.  I haven't decided whether I'll just wire tie those 3 leads together and route them up front, or whether I'll get a larger sleeve to route all three from mid coach up front.  The front camera will be routed back to the access hole.  I'll use the same Winegard cable plate to cover the hole in the roof.  I also spent a lot of time converting all the metric measurements into Imperial, but think that was likely a waste of time also.  I hope to use the provided tapes and use scuba dive weights to hold them down, and also get a Metric tape measure, and just keep everything in metric.  

I'd love to hear how your 

I tend to spend way too much time planning - more than once I've been told "it's time to shoot the engineer and get on with the project".

I had hoped to have this done last month, but all my Lifeline AGM batteries have died, and I'm now building LiFePO4 batteries to replace them.  Since I'm in Colorado Springs, same as John, they need to be heated so I am having to take that into consideration in the design.  I've got the first batch of cells which are 285A-Hr and all the components for the build, I'm just testing the heating function to determine how many 25 Watt heaters I'll need.

I'll be interested to see how your install goes.

  -Rick N.

[Scotty Hutto]

Rick,

For my front camera, I plan to mount exactly as John did. By removing my TV, I can access the back of the front cap. I have replaced marker lights and broken a wire in the process, plus fished speaker cables through the front cap, so I know the drill there. The camera cable will come to the driver side A pillar and down under the dash.

My “brain” will be mounted in the dash where I already have a factory access panel.  I currently have a video multiplexer there, so already have power, grounds, etc to that point. 

My 10” monitor is already dash mounted with a Ram mount bar that also holds my TPMS and Garmin 780  

 

The rear camera will be mounted as John’s, except I don’t have the vent on top, so I’ll use a cable plate as in his pictures. 

That brings me to the side cameras…. I want to mount them mid-ship, but can’t quite picture how that would work on a slide. While the ability to see clearly when the slides are open is a great security feature, my primary focus is blind spot elimination when driving. My mid-point is about 12” behind my curbside slide, and about 24” behind my roadside slide. My only issue is an “elegant” way to get the cables to the roof. If I mount them just below the beltline, I think that will be optimum for the viewing angle, but right now I don’t see a way to do that on the curbside without an exposed cable. On the roadside I can punch through to the refrigerator vent, up, and out, just as John did. I have a residential reefer, so heat isn’t an issue there. 

Cables will come across the roof, and down through the drivers side A pillar. I have an existing hole and plate there where the previous owner ran satellite cables. If I can come up with an “elegant” way to get the camera cable to the roof on the curbside,I’ll be ready to go.  Right now my best idea is use eternabond tape to secure the cable/sleeve where it goes over the roof radius, but the thought of that white stripe doesn’t sit well. 

Any ideas or suggestions appreciated…
 

 

[Paul J A]

14 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Rick,

For my front camera, I plan to mount exactly as John did. By removing my TV, I can access the back of the front cap. I have replaced marker lights and broken a wire in the process, plus fished speaker cables through the front cap, so I know the drill there. The camera cable will come to the driver side A pillar and down under the dash.

My “brain” will be mounted in the dash where I already have a factory access panel.  I currently have a video multiplexer there, so already have power, grounds, etc to that point. 

My 10” monitor is already dash mounted with a Ram mount bar that also holds my TPMS and Garmin 780  

 

The rear camera will be mounted as John’s, except I don’t have the vent on top, so I’ll use a cable plate as in his pictures. 

That brings me to the side cameras…. I want to mount them mid-ship, but can’t quite picture how that would work on a slide. While the ability to see clearly when the slides are open is a great security feature, my primary focus is blind spot elimination when driving. My mid-point is about 12” behind my curbside slide, and about 24” behind my roadside slide. My only issue is an “elegant” way to get the cables to the roof. If I mount them just below the beltline, I think that will be optimum for the viewing angle, but right now I don’t see a way to do that on the curbside without an exposed cable. On the roadside I can punch through to the refrigerator vent, up, and out, just as John did. I have a residential reefer, so heat isn’t an issue there. 

Cables will come across the roof, and down through the drivers side A pillar. I have an existing hole and plate there where the previous owner ran satellite cables. If I can come up with an “elegant” way to get the camera cable to the roof on the curbside,I’ll be ready to go.  Right now my best idea is use eternabond tape to secure the cable/sleeve where it goes over the roof radius, but the thought of that white stripe doesn’t sit well. 

Any ideas or suggestions appreciated…
 

 

Isn't that "pillar" called a "J" pillar?  Or, Maybe be it's different for different coach models. 

[waterskier_1]

2 hours ago, Paul A. said:

Isn't that "pillar" called a "J" pillar?  Or, Maybe be it's different for different coach models. 

Never heard of "J" pillar.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_(car)

[Paul J A]

3 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

Never heard of "J" pillar.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_(car)

Many techs used that to describe the vertical pillar directly adjacent to the "side" end of the windshield.  

[Scotty Hutto]

9 hours ago, Paul A. said:

Isn't that "pillar" called a "J" pillar?  Or, Maybe be it's different for different coach models. 

Might be??  I always called it an A pillar, but I don’t even recall where I got that from. 

[dl_racing427]

Roof supports on automobiles and trucks have been called A, B, C, etc. front to back.
The one alongside the windshield is the A-Pillar.

I guess you could have a J-Pillar on a school bus. LOL

Edited September 24, 2021 by dl_racing427

[Bob Schmeckpeper]

Assume job. Just starting to rework my rig.  Can you tell me about your Tailights? 

Thanks

[StellaTariche]

Hi Bob,

I got the tail lights on ebay in 2016.

Search for "Tail Lights FOR 1973-1978 GMC K15/C15/C1500 Pickup Smoke Rear Brake Taillights"

This link seems to find them:  https://www.ebay.com/b/Tail-Lights-for-GMC-K15/33716/bn_1392110

They are great with LED bulbs - keeps traffic behind me well informed.

Note: You'll need two pair.

Edited October 12, 2021 by StellaTariche
added ebay link for tail lights

[StellaTariche]

Update on the Uberbounder:

Spent 5 days near Elkhart for some upgrades:

1. RB Glass. Windshield reset and reseal. No more wind noise.  Reused the same glass.  Great service.  About $1400.
2. JC Refrigeration.  Switched out the 3 way Amish fridge (installed in 2016 to replace Norcold/Dometic fire hazard) with new +12v Amish unit.  Amazing performance.  Amazing service too.  $1800 including the unit, installation, running a larger gauge wire to battery and dual wireless thermometers.  My clamp on DC meter says it draws less than 50 watts while running (outside temp was 85, about a 50% duty cycle).  Two hours for them to install.  Set on medium, freezer was -5F, fridge was 37F.
3. Mike Custom Painting. They put 3 more coats of clear coat, then color sanded and polished everything. Note: They are back logged for 12 months. Issac, Mike's son, is truly amazing.  He knew I only had a few days, and managed to work me into their very full schedule.  Photos below. Stunning.  About $6000 for the clear. No one in Colorado quoted less than $11k. I removed all the small awnings for the painting before leaving Colorado.

The red reflection in the paint is the red barn I'm parked next to. Issac runs things for Mike - he is in the blue shirt.  Outstanding guy.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by StellaTariche
added photos

[Bill C]

On 2/18/2021 at 11:45 AM, StellaTariche said:

Hi Bill,

1. Get the small cameras
2. Get the 10" monitor (the 7" is too small for my eyes, especially if you are showing the split screen view)
3. Also, remember to order the "RV" model:  Longer camera wires, and you can choose the "vehicle" image, which can be stretched to accurately show your coach. You can also choose a "Class C" image, a "School Bus" Image and several others.

I was gonna use a 1966 Batmobile image (special order to make a custom image), as I used to own a street legal 1966 batmobile:

 

Here is the contact information for SZDALOS.  They usually respond in one day (time zone stuff):

Shenzhen dalos electronics co., limited

Contact person: Dories Liu
www.szdalos.cn  
Email： info@szdalos.com
Skype: doris-hid
Wechat/whatsapp: +86-18682022573
Tel: +86-13691627132

 

Hi Jon, what is the red "trigger" wire for, and where do you connect it to, since it is so short on each end of the extensions and there is no place to connect it to the camera?

 

[Oregon04Windsor]

Yes, the paint and tech is wonderful but tell me more about the bidet!  I was just contemplating this upgrade the other day.

Nice work!