No 120v Power and no Charger on Trace Model RV2012M

[thompson_skip]

Getting ready to leave camp ground and it noticed that the voltage on the top meter was over 150v and bottom meter was about 50 v.  I went to power pedestal and pulled out the progressive surge protector. I found that the 50amp plug was ajar while the progressive surge protector was plugged in. I reseated the coach plug and went back inside to discover that I had lost 120 volt  power. The RG 7 remote now says waiting for AC when plugged in shore power or when running the generator. If turn on the inverter all the 120 works. The ACs all work on shore and generator. The charge LEDs don’t work on either the RG 7 or on the Trace Inverter/Charger. Have I fried the Trace?  Suggestion for repair or replace. We are leaving end of August for a couple of months so kind anxious to get it fixed. Thanks so much, in advance. 

[Dr4Film]

I would do a cold reboot of the Trace Inverter/Charger and the RC7-GS Remote first to see if that resolves your problem.

Trace RC7-GS Owners Manual.pdf Trace RV-2012 Inverter Manual.pdf

[jacwjames]

X2 on what Richard recommended.

When I thought I was having trouble with mine I called the tech support number listed on their website and talked to a tech, I explained my symptoms and he said my inverter was toast/ not repairable.  He said that the Trace 2012 is not repairable and had to be replaced and gave me all the part numbers I'd need to upgrade to a PSW inverter. 

So I went ahead and pulled it and did some continuity testing.  I thought I had a problem as I was picking up some ohms when I thought I shouldn't so for the heck of it I found the number of a repair facility near Nashville ( I live in E TN) and called them and explained what happened initially and the testing I did.  I thought it might be one of the internal transfer switches but he said that the ohm readings I got were normal and he didn't think it was my inverter and gave me some tips on how to troubleshoot my electrical system.  Put the inverter back in, did some testing as he explained, found one bad circuit that I disconnected completely and the inverter and rest of my electrical worked.  

My point is don't rely on the Trace tech support, call a repair facility.   I believe this was the place I contacted

https://inverterservicecenter.com/contact-us

[Warren B]

Check the 30amp breaker to the inverter in the main electrical panel. If tripped, the RC7 will say waiting for power. 

[thompson_skip]

4 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

I would do a cold reboot of the Trace Inverter/Charger and the RC7-GS Remote first to see if that resolves your problem.

Trace RC7-GS Owners Manual.pdf 264 kB · 2 downloads Trace RV-2012 Inverter Manual.pdf 783.46 kB · 4 downloads

Thanks for the manuals. I have mine from when I purchased the coach new in 2003. I have looked them and yours and haven’t been able to find how to do a cold reboot.  I did go through setting up the RG7-GS.  I used the RG7-GS to do remote start of the generator and that worked. The charger in the inverter is not working.  Thanks 

[cbr046]

+1 on the reboot.  We had a (very) close lightning hit last night (simultaneous light & sound show).  Tripped the low tech kitchen circuit breaker and took out the modem, router, satellite receiver, an ethernet switch and . . . fairly low tech coffee maker, all on 3 different circuits.  Everything was toast, nothing would power up, except the coffee maker which showed the clock and would turn on but no heat.  Started ripping it apart then on a whim plugged it in and got heat.  Moral of the story:  Always reboot!

Good luck with your inverter. 

- bob

[thompson_skip]

I don’t know how to reboot and have not been able find how to do in the manual. Thanks and good luck with coffee maker. Sorry that you lost your stuff. 

[Ivan K]

Here is how I do it with our 3012, by memory. Turn inverter off (the switch at inverter), disconnect shore power, disconnect battery power, solar power if you have it. Disconnect the yellow RC7GS cable at inverter, not the temp sensor. There should be no power to or from the inverter now. Give it few minutes to internally discharge. Then turn batteries on. Plug the RC7 cable back in, turn inverter switch on. The RC7 will reboot and invertor work as usual. Connect shore power. Have a beer. Hope that's all you need to do.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Ivan K

[thompson_skip]

On 7/7/2022 at 12:02 PM, jacwjames said:

X2 on what Richard recommended.

When I thought I was having trouble with mine I called the tech support number listed on their website and talked to a tech, I explained my symptoms and he said my inverter was toast/ not repairable.  He said that the Trace 2012 is not repairable and had to be replaced and gave me all the part numbers I'd need to upgrade to a PSW inverter. 

So I went ahead and pulled it and did some continuity testing.  I thought I had a problem as I was picking up some ohms when I thought I shouldn't so for the heck of it I found the number of a repair facility near Nashville ( I live in E TN) and called them and explained what happened initially and the testing I did.  I thought it might be one of the internal transfer switches but he said that the ohm readings I got were normal and he didn't think it was my inverter and gave me some tips on how to troubleshoot my electrical system.  Put the inverter back in, did some testing as he explained, found one bad circuit that I disconnected completely and the inverter and rest of my electrical worked.  

My point is don't rely on the Trace tech support, call a repair facility.   I believe this was the place I contacted

https://inverterservicecenter.com/contact-us

I called Inverter service and one of their technicians told me to check the voltage L1 Hot and the neutral. He said if I had voltage coming and nothing going out the inverter/ charger is bad. I checked and I have 120 coming in so I need to replace the unit. Thanks so much for the contact info for the repair center. 

On 7/7/2022 at 3:42 PM, Ivan K said:

Here is how I do it with our 3012, by memory. Turn inverter off (the switch at inverter), disconnect shore power, disconnect battery power, solar power if you have it. Disconnect the yellow RC7GS cable at inverter, not the temp sensor. There should be no power to or from the inverter now. Give it few minutes to internally discharge. Then turn batteries on. Plug the RC7 cable back in, turn inverter switch on. The RC7 will reboot and invertor work as usual. Connect shore power. Have a beer. Hope that's all you need to do.

Ivan thanks so much for the reboot procedure, I did and the only that worked out was the beer😬😬. Another responder to my post gave contact info for a inverter service center in Tennessee and I called Inverter service and one of their technicians told me to check the voltage L1 Hot and the neutral. He said if I had voltage coming and nothing going out the inverter/ charger is bad. I checked and I have 120 coming in so I need to replace the unit.  I don’t want to modify the mounting brackets so I’m going to put in a remanufactured unit. Thanks for your assistance 

On 7/7/2022 at 9:52 AM, Dr4Film said:

I would do a cold reboot of the Trace Inverter/Charger and the RC7-GS Remote first to see if that resolves your problem.

Trace RC7-GS Owners Manual.pdf 264 kB · 4 downloads Trace RV-2012 Inverter Manual.pdf 783.46 kB · 8 downloads

I called Inverter service center and one of their technicians told me to check the voltage L1 Hot and the neutral. He said if I had voltage coming and nothing going out the inverter/ charger is bad. I checked and I have 120 coming in so I need to replace the unit. Thanks for reply to my post. 

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, thompson_skip said:

I called Inverter service and one of their technicians told me to check the voltage L1 Hot and the neutral. He said if I had voltage coming and nothing going out the inverter/ charger is bad. I checked and I have 120 coming in so I need to replace the unit. Thanks so much for the contact info for the repair center. 

I

 

I'm sure it's not what you wanted to hear but at least you have a path forward. 

When I called the service center I was convinced my inverter was toast but the tech didn't think so and gave me great advice on how to troubleshoot.  I got lucky and found my problem and was able to fix.

Hope you get your problem solved. 

Good Luck

[thompson_skip]

The inverter puzzle continues 😤😤. I ordered and installed a rebuilt Trace/Xentrex from Inverter Service Center in White House, TN.  I now have 120 which I didn’t have before, the microwave works, all the wall outlets work, etc, but none of the 12 volt lights work,  none of the thermostats work.  It reminds me of what happens when the salesman switch is off.  I took out the salesman switch and I have 12 volts, actually the meter reads 14.1v at the switch.  I decided to replace the salesman switch solenoid hoping it was bad, but no luck.  I checked the 12v fuze holder that is in the rear bedroom closet and no voltage coming to the fuses. There is 14.1 volts coming out of batteries into the inverter but I sure wish I knew why no coach lights are working.  Thanks in advance for your assistance 😁. Anyone have a working Trace RV2012 you want to sell?  Our Coach is 2003 Dyansty with no EMS. 

[Tom Cherry]

21 minutes ago, thompson_skip said:

The inverter puzzle continues 😤😤. I ordered and installed a rebuilt Trace/Xentrex from Inverter Service Center in White House, TN.  I now have 120 which I didn’t have before, the microwave works, all the wall outlets work, etc, but none of the 12 volt lights work,  none of the thermostats work.  It reminds me of what happens when the salesman switch is off.  I took out the salesman switch and I have 12 volts, actually the meter reads 14.1v at the switch.  I decided to replace the salesman switch solenoid hoping it was bad, but no luck.  I checked the 12v fuze holder that is in the rear bedroom closet and no voltage coming to the fuses. There is 14.1 volts coming out of batteries into the inverter but I sure wish I knew why no coach lights are working.  Thanks in advance for your assistance 😁. Anyone have a working Trace RV2012 you want to sell?  Our Coach is 2003 Dyansty with no EMS. 

First, hope you have the above or even BETTER....the Manual.  Look at pages 124, 125 and 126 of the "FILES".  That will be pages 131, 132 and 133 of the PDF as the index at the front adds pages.

You have, and the prints are slightly hard to read, even blown up, one or two leads from the "Domestic Solenoids.  The first one Page 124 (PDF 131) shows the master layout of all the 12 VDC...a BIG SUCKER.  Then the next page, 125 (PDF 132) has the HVAC wiring and the main distribution panel. If you are NOT getting power there, then the issue has to be "faulty" Domestic Solenoid....there are TWO.  Did you replace BOTH or ON...?  This page has the HVAC wiring and we "know" that Monaco ran the Thermostat feed from the main 12 VDC distribution panel...and the print shows that...

Look at Page 125 (PDF 133). Two Solenoids, I assume are there. If you look on the INCOMING side of the Solenoids, both go to the Battery Buss (my term).  You need to find where all the high current fuses are located. I can NOT tell from the drawing if there are high current (ANL Type) which have a visible "element" or if you have, like the newer Dynasties do, Circuit Breakers (I believe resettable). 

My advice....Check BOTH Solenoids to see if you have 12 VDC on one side....Personally, I don't see the need for them as they are the idiotic Salesman's Switches. They can be bypassed for a total of $15 from NAPA...  781144 - 2 needed...one for each solenoid. 

You have to find the incoming power for them....and it looks like you have an upstream issue....or if you ain't got power on the incoming of the Domestic Solenoids...you ain't gonna have it down stream.

That is as much as I can do from the prints....and my limited knowledge of the early Dynasty configurations.

Good LucK 

[wamcneil]

Did you put back the battery cables exactly like they were originally attached when you replaced the inverter?  
As I recall there’s a chassis ground on the inverter that doesn’t seem like it would be needed, but all the dc loads go through that ground strap so that the inverter’s internal shunt can read battery current. 
Cheers

Walter

[Dr4Film]

The Inverter/Charger has nothing to do with not having 12 VDC going to your devices. Your house battery bank is responsible for powering your 12 VDC devices. The Inverter/Charger takes care of replenishing your house batteries when they get low.

You already have what appears to be a working Trace Inverter/Charger.

[thompson_skip]

Thanks all for your suggestions. It do have the original wiring manual. I’m going to clean the bolts in the battery box where battery cable connect to the cables that go into coach and see if that makes any difference. 

[wamcneil]

2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

The Inverter/Charger has nothing to do with not having 12 VDC going to your devices. Your house battery bank is responsible for powering your 12 VDC devices. The Inverter/Charger takes care of replenishing your house batteries when they get low.

You already have what appears to be a working Trace Inverter/Charger.

Agreed. But in my system, all of the house 12v loads run through the rv2012 negative terminal and a ground terminal on the frame. This was not intuitive to me...

If that ground terminal was missed it might explain why there's no 12v house power right after OP was messing with the inverter cables....

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, thompson_skip said:

Thanks all for your suggestions. It do have the original wiring manual. I’m going to clean the bolts in the battery box where battery cable connect to the cables that go into coach and see if that makes any difference. 

GOD FORBID I SAY THIS.  The Coach GROUND is the same as the 120 AC Ground.  If you measure from an AC GROUND PIN outlet, probably one NEARBY, to the 12 VDC Cable on the distribution panel and you do NOT get 12 VDC, you are missing B+ or positive 12 VDC.  Likewise, you can use you ohm meter and do a continuity test from the 120 VAC Ground to the GROUND on the panel (it shows one there...as the Ground has to be distributed to some circuits). If you get 100% or ZERO Ohms....then your ground is fine.  Might be way easier and more fruitful that yanking cables and cleaning.  Verify the Domestic Solenoid's INPUT to chassis ground or a known GROUND.  Then start the search.  Just a suggestion.  Not knocking the other method...but there are usually more ways to troubleshoot and some don't need taking things apart needlessly....

[Ivan K]

Shot in the dark, is it possible that you have 2 salesman solenoids? We have one for the house and one for the FRB power and none of them have any direct relation to inverter. 

[thompson_skip]

Ivan there are two solenoids in the compartment outside under the driver's window. One clicks when I turn the ignition and it think sends 12 v current to the dash lights, dash fan etc. not sure what the other one does?  I have replaced both of them so don’t think that can be causing the lack of 12 v. I’m wondering if anyone has an idea of a shop near Cheyenne, Wy that might be able to help me?  Thanks so much. 

[Ivan K]

7 minutes ago, thompson_skip said:

Ivan there are two solenoids in the compartment outside under the driver's window. One clicks when I turn the ignition and it think sends 12 v current to the dash lights, dash fan etc. not sure what the other one does?  I have replaced both of them so don’t think that can be causing the lack of 12 v. I’m wondering if anyone has an idea of a shop near Cheyenne, Wy that might be able to help me?  Thanks so much. 

In my case, in the FRB these are an ignition solenoid and an accessory solenoid. None of them is a salesman solenoid. I would have expected yours to be in the rear like ours but I don't know your rig.

[Tom Cherry]

52 minutes ago, thompson_skip said:

Ivan there are two solenoids in the compartment outside under the driver's window. One clicks when I turn the ignition and it think sends 12 v current to the dash lights, dash fan etc. not sure what the other one does?  I have replaced both of them so don’t think that can be causing the lack of 12 v. I’m wondering if anyone has an idea of a shop near Cheyenne, Wy that might be able to help me?  Thanks so much. 

Ivan is more than likely correct.  You must FIRST locate and identify the two Domestic or salesman solenoids that I directed you too and found the prints for.  They are most likely in the RRB.  You need to look at the prints, follow the cables.  Locate the battery buss and the fuse or CB bank on the high current drawing.  I think you are, as Ivan said, on the wrong end.  
 

There are many ways to find the domestic solenoid….what a NAME.  They are large.  They have large cables.  It is safe to put your hand on the can or case.  Have an assistant cycle OFF them.  I don’t know if you have two switches like one each or if both are controlled by a single switch.  That will be in your manual. Either way, put your hands on both and have someone cycle them ON and OFF.  Once you isolate the armature moving by sound or feel….then you have made progress.  Then, you can measure both side or studs.  Each one HAS to have 12VDC on the supply or incoming side.  When the solenoid is ON….as in the battery switch has been closed…then you have voltage going yo the distribution panels,  The “ignition clicking” solenoids are NOT the Domestic solenoids on the prints.  
 

You need to be in the rear and find them and verify that there is 12VDC on one side or the input to both of them.  They are NOT ignition controlled.  But even a “clicking Domestic” solenoid ain’t gonna pass through 12VDC If the upstream fuse or CB is OPEN.  Check for voltage on one side or do the tests on the panel…..rather than chase a ghost or spend $$….

That should help you..  follow the steps and then  let us know.   Otherwise it is a guessing game and we can not help you without some facts as well as you following our advice.
 

 Thanks.in advance for understanding this…we will help you once we have more info and you do the trouble shooting…

[thompson_skip]

I have found the domestic solenoids in the engine compartment on the right side of the engine as you look into the compartment. I will get someone to help me tomorrow and see if I can check the solenoids.  I am not sure where to find the distribution panel?  When I was working on cleaning the battery cables I attempted to remove the red wires the of the part pictured, whatever it is, came apart. It is corroded and fell apart. Any idea what it is what it does?  It has a spring loaded plate in the bottom that the screws must have touched.  I’m wondering if I can just attach the wires together and eliminate the destroyed plastic part.  If not any idea where to go a replacement part. Nice Cheyenne, Wy sunset 😎😎. Thanks so much for your help!!!

[wamcneil]

That’s a Klixon self-resetting circuit breaker. Was it inside the battery compartment?  With one side connected to batteries (bypassing the battery switch)?

If so it should be the breaker that feeds a Domestic Hot fuse panel in the front electric bay. 
I hope you find the problem!

Edited July 21, 2022 by wamcneil

[Tom Cherry]

8 hours ago, thompson_skip said:

I have found the domestic solenoids in the engine compartment on the right side of the engine as you look into the compartment. I will get someone to help me tomorrow and see if I can check the solenoids.  I am not sure where to find the distribution panel?  When I was working on cleaning the battery cables I attempted to remove the red wires the of the part pictured, whatever it is, came apart. It is corroded and fell apart. Any idea what it is what it does?  It has a spring loaded plate in the bottom that the screws must have touched.  I’m wondering if I can just attach the wires together and eliminate the destroyed plastic part.  If not any idea where to go a replacement part. Nice Cheyenne, Wy sunset 😎😎. Thanks so much for your help!!!

You have PROBABLY found the issue. The House Distribution Panel is the 12 VDC fuses. I can't remember from your manual where, exactly it is located.  Read the House Electrical section in the manual. Look at the prints that I pointed out. The TWO Domestic Solenoids are nothing buy BIG "switches". When they are closed, they feed, via TWO big Cables, a "fuse box". 

NO...You can NOT just reattach. You need to KNOW which ONE it is. The prints show several of them. That was the items that I said I could not tell if it was a fuse or a circuit breaker. HOPEFULLY you can get a part number off of it and get the current rating. Amazon probably has them...or an equivalent. Without pulling your manual again, read the parts about WHERE the House Distribution panel (or panels) are.

Look at the drawing labeled Battery Cut Off Switches. That is the #126 print. It shows most of this. It also shows the House Fuse panel in the Bedroom.  If you look in the upper left corner, it also shows the Front Two Solenoids that you heard clicking.

You need to be more familiar with these prints if you are going to do electrical repair.

You are on the right track. If you can NOT find the amp rating for the resettable circuit breaker, then take a picture of where it is located and what is on either side of it.  Then another Dynasty, probably a 2003 owner can help you with the current rating.  There may also be a diagram back there. If you have the ORIGINAL pints in your manual, then look there. The scanned copy does not have the resolution for me to read.

Keep at it...

[wamcneil]

This thread describes the 80a klixon circuit breaker located in the battery compartment

Most of the house loads don't go through that breaker. The normal house loads all go through the high current run bay on the right side of the engine compartment.