Exhaust Manifold

[Paul J A]

16 hours ago, BradHend said:

Really wish I could attend this year.   Unfortunately I am STILL waiting/looking for an exhaust manifold for my 5.9 ISB.  Nobody has one, not even in the used or salvage sectors that I’ve tried.   

RV Parts & Salvage Yards

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https://colawrvsalvage.com/, https://www.veurinksrv.com/

https://www.rvyard.com/

findmyrvparts.com

rvparts.visonerv.com

anyrvparts.com 

finditparts.com

 

[BRBowers]

What year is your coach?  IGave you checked with Cummins?  I had a warped manifold on my 2006 ISL 400 about 4 years ago. When I checked with Cummins they had one. 

[BradHend]

@BRBowers I for sure have checked with Cummins.  They also claim my specific manifold (part# 3955199) is still under copyright protection which is why there is no aftermarket option for it.  They hope to see one next year “sometime”.  

But to answer your question, it’s a 2005 Cayman. 

Might add that it’s a 2-piece manifold.  The smaller piece I can get no problem, it’s the larger piece that has the turbo flange and the EGR port is the problem.   I have been tempted to try a 2007 F-750 super duty manifold, as it is for a 5.9 cummins and has the same EGR port, but it is a 1-piece and I’m hesitant to even attempt in case it cracks or something.  I would assume mine is a 2-piece for a reason.

[Robert92867]

2-piece to allow expansion of the inline 6 head.  I have bought from Diesel Power Products before (VP-44 Pump). This is listed as 03-07 dodge cummins 1045986. $546.95

[BradHend]

It doesn’t have the large EGR outlet on it.  All the diesel shops I’ve talked to about deleting it all together and getting a standard manifold like what you have posted claim an EGR delete mod can’t be done on my specific year/model engine.   Very frustrating.  
 

[Robert92867]

thanks for posting a photo. I was curious of the difficulty in procurement. That is indeed a strange looking fellow

[Greg Carter]

Perhaps a little off topic but I’m wondering if anyone has ever made a manifold as we make custom headers for gas car engines that deal with turbo chargers so not sure about diesel? ( I guess I should watch more Diesel Brothers shows)

i think there could be higher temperatures involved than for gas but a lot of header wrap would absorb a lot of that heat.

as our rigs get older I might have this same issue in the future. 

I now Dad had to have the one replaced on the 97 about 12-15 years old at that time. 

Cant recall if it was cracked or just warped but he had a replacement part from Cummins installed and a new turbo as well. 

[hitechpete]

A friend of mine bought one directly from the Chinese manufacturer, and even including shipping to the U.K. it was a fraction of the Cummins price.

[BradHend]

@hitechpete any chance your buddy still has the information for the manufacturer?

Many thanks. 

[hitechpete]

Quick Google search:

[BradHend]

@hitechpete that isn’t my manifold.  See the pic I posted near the top.  
Appreciate you looking though.  

[hitechpete]

2 minutes ago, BradHend said:

@hitechpete that isn’t my manifold.  See the pic I posted near the top.  
Appreciate you looking though.  

I know, but eBay.com may hold the answer to your problem.

[Greg Carter]

I sent a message to service@thoroughbreddiesel.com as I found they were making headers.

this am they replied 

We recently received your question regarding a product on our site, "Have you ever made a header for Cummins 8.9 300 HP turbo for use in a Motor Home?I’m sure with the right details and specs it should be possible Thank you", and our team has reviewed your request.

No offering for a Motorhome yet.

Having said that I searched and found https://powerdrivendiesel.com/

phone 435-962-9555

might be worth the call

 

cheers

 

[dl_racing427]

16 hours ago, Greg Carter said:

Perhaps a little off topic but I’m wondering if anyone has ever made a manifold as we make custom headers for gas car engines that deal with turbo chargers so not sure about diesel? ( I guess I should watch more Diesel Brothers shows)

i think there could be higher temperatures involved than for gas but a lot of header wrap would absorb a lot of that heat.

as our rigs get older I might have this same issue in the future. 

I now Dad had to have the one replaced on the 97 about 12-15 years old at that time. 

Cant recall if it was cracked or just warped but he had a replacement part from Cummins installed and a new turbo as well. 

If you make gasoline turbo headers that survive, you'll have no problem making one for a diesel.
Gasoline egt's often reach 1,800 deg. f, while diesels rarely exceed 1,400 - 1,500.
They do need to be physically robust, as the turbo's are bigger and heavier, and diesels have more vibration.

That said, a header would be considerably more expensive to build than a replacement manifold, and any performance improvement would be slight.
Turbo's pretty much destroy any scavenging effect, and the point is to simply get the exhaust into the turbine inlet.
Also, the slow speed these engines operate at would require extremely long tubes to get effective scavenging in the first place.

[Greg Carter]

All agreed I don’t need one yet but if these manifolds are getting harder to find then the only real goal would be to make a header style that would replace a unusable one.

seems there are still options out there for replacements for 5.9’s but the OP hasn’t found one with a EGR outlet.

i just started to look into it since at some point I might need one or two but ours are for pretty basic 8.3’s with just the turbo outlet.

all good learning and great inputs on this forum.

cheers

[BradHend]

A retired family member of mine who was a well known tool & die maker in the Toronto area and is still consulting at the age of 76 has told me one possible option is to have the cast manifold spray welded and then planed back true with the other ports.   This of course is assuming the warped manifold can be removed in one piece and not damaged further in the process.  
As much as I’d like to go ahead with that route, the risk of damage is high in my opinion and if I proceed and damage it then I’m really in some trouble.   I have it temporarily patched up right now so I can drive it but absolutely no guarantees as to how long it will hold up.   It’s not pretty at all, but it works and it got me home from our east coast Canada adventure. I just know it won’t last.  Too much expansion and contraction there to be considered a reliable temporary fix.  
I truly appreciate everyone’s input btw.  

[Robert92867]

Did they braze it?

 

[BradHend]

Nope. Literally noone would touch it cause they couldn’t guarantee anything or couldn’t fit me in. 
It’s actually a combination of copper high heat RTV, some extreme temp JB putty, high heat fibreglass wrap and stainless zip ties.  I unfortunately had to wrap the fibreglass and zip ties as the compound would just fall out after an hour or so of driving.  The wrap and zip ties are basically just there to prevent it from falling out, which actually seems to be working. 
I had ZERO boost when things got bad at the start of the trip in the hillsides of New Brunswick/Quebec. Engine de-rated itself. Gutless and black smoke.   Quite a trip.   Lots of stress.  I did make the best of it.  We will be going back for a victory tour.  😉. It’s a crude attempt,  but it works.   Just wish I could get the darn part.  

[dl_racing427]

5 hours ago, mike_fluharty said:

When I was looking for an exhaust manifold last year cummins didn’t have one and said no stock anywhere, however they offered to order one to see what would happen, it showed up 3 days later at the Cummins shop.

good luck & happy holidays.

As far as egr tap, my engine never had one but I wanted to add one so I had a local machine shop tap the manifold just before the turbo.

I think you mean EGT.
No sane person would ever add EGR to an engine, in fact, many remove it from later model years.

That's exactly what I'd do if I were the OP. Ditch the EGR system and use an earlier model manifold.

[BradHend]

@dl_racing427 I’m all for ditching the EGR and using a standard manifold, my issue seems to be that no diesel tuning shops can delete it on a 2005 engine.   Only seems to be on the ‘07s and up from what I can see.  
Not as simple as ditching it and installing covers on the 2 ports from the research I’ve done either. 
That also raises the issue that if I modify the ECM and engine components, from what I hear, Cummins won’t touch it.  
If you know how to delete properly, I’m all ears, otherwise I intend to keep it how it came. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by BradHend

[BradHend]

On 12/13/2022 at 5:21 PM, mike_fluharty said:

When I was looking for an exhaust manifold last year cummins didn’t have one and said no stock anywhere, however they offered to order one to see what would happen, it showed up 3 days later at the Cummins shop.

good luck & happy holidays.

As far as egr tap, my engine never had one but I wanted to add one so I had a local machine shop tap the manifold just before the turbo.

So I called Cummins Eastern Canada today after thinking about your post and gave them a hard time about this manifold of mine that I can’t seem to get from anywhere or anyone.  They said they can put in an emergency order request for it, but it will cost me a special fee and there’s no guarantee it will show as their systems show not a single one in the world at this time.  I told them to go ahead and put the order in, I’ll pay whatever it takes. 
After all this time and the continuous calls for stock availability this was never mentioned as a possible solution to procurement.  
I have my doubts it will show up, but I can’t thank you enough for posting that as it’s definitely worth a shot and it’s the closest I’ve come yet to getting my hands on one.  Fingers crossed. 

[RNMCBR]

I recently had to fix exhaust leaks on a friends coach then mine. Both are 07 Diplomats with 06 ISL’s. On both manifolds, the leak was at #3 and #6 flanges on the inside. I was able to get a .010 feeler gauge between the flanges and my mill table when the manifolds were checked for straightness.

Fortunately, I am able to mill the manifolds myself. I took about .021 off both to get them flat, both pieces.

I think if you could find someone or a shop near you that could do this, you could save buying a new one. 

Attached pictures show the setup and finished job. Two vices, two v blocks, a little indicating and a fly cutter. Not a hard job for someone that has access to a Bridgeport-size mill. If you look closely at the first picture you can see the warp on #3 and #6 ports.

Roy
 

 

[BradHend]

@RNMCBR  The top flange bolt on #6 let go unnoticed on me I’m assuming during my initial overheat condition in early summer and there were no signs or symptoms of anything wrong with the exhaust leaking until our east coast trip near the end of summer.  My Cummins authorized mechanic even gave everything a clean bill of health before we ventured out east.  Simple oversight is all, not blaming anyone.   That is when the leak became evident not only from the sudden noise, but the complete loss of boost pressure.  
Immediately once the engine was cooled down enough to examine, I gave all the manifold bolts I could easily get to a tension check and that’s when I discovered that the top bolt on #6 just fell out by hand.   Bad situation turned worse when it was then discovered, in the middle in Nova Scotia that there was now a 3/16” air gap at that connection point and the bottom bolt was still hanging on.  I trust you can visualize how much this manifold is warped.  I believe it is beyond a simple planing at this point.  Very unfortunate situation for me.  Hence the decision to do what I could via improvised emergency roadside repairs. 
 

Edited December 17, 2022 by BradHend

[Bill R]

@BradHendIs the only problem with your manifold on #6?  Isn't the #6 position on the short end of the 2 piece manifold?  I know you have probably thought through every scenario, but could an option be to replace the short end from like a scrap yard and reusing your existing 4 port section.  Assuming you larger section is fine. 

[BradHend]

I think I just view #6 differently than proper.  It’s on the end of the large piece.  So, #1 then.