Replacing Norcold with Samsung f18 and 6v batteries at the same time

[Blacknight]

Good morning All- My Norcold has cooked it's last meal! After reading many of the posts about similar problems, I have ordered a Samsung Rf18 which I will be installing in our 2007 Monaco Knight DFT. I love the convenience of propane and have for years but I will give that up for the fear of fire. The install looks to be straight forward but I would like to know how to secure the new rig from moving around? Any additional tips on this install would be great.

Now that i'm replacing the frig, my thoughts are how to power it when not plugged in and off the generator. I do not know how old my Interstate batteries are so I think it's best to replace them (4 x 6v). I talked to Deka battery and they suggested I go to AGM style as they are maintenance free and will provide longer power cycles. Our coach has the magnum 2000 ME2012 inverter charger unit.

With the information given so far, will this be a simple replacement system and all be capatable we each other?

My next question is, with the information I have given so far, what would I need to change-or keep the same-to add some solar to the roof for charging the new battery bank when we boondock? I know very little about solar so it would be best to explain what I would need to buy to make it work correctly-

Thanks for your time and knowledge-Steve

[Will52]

We converted our 1200 with the Dutch air 12 volt working perfectly.

[Blacknight]

I considered doing the conversion but I did the dollar bill test on the seals and they were not tight like they should be and I understand they can't be replaced.

[Dwight Lindsey]

I installed a Fisher Paykel, which we like.  It's bolted down in back and I've got some shelf brackets installed from the top roof opening that will prevent it from tipping forward and stressing those screws in the back.  Your solution will be different than ours, since you have a Samsung.  Search the forums, there are different solutions discussed including brackets around the frame in front.

Regarding the batteries, I installed Lithium Ion Phosphate batteries and I love it.  By removing the pull out battery tray (which I don't need because the LiPo batteries don't need to be watered), I made space for 3 200 amp hour LiPo batteries with bluetooth and built in heaters.  Because LiPo batteries have a pretty uniform voltage output even when nearly empty, all 600 amp hours are useable.  With my previous setup of 4 100 amp hour lead acid batteries, only 200 amp hours were really useable, because the inverter would cut out as voltage dropped.

Now, with 600 amp hours of LiPo, I have 3 times the available battery storage.  With the residential refrigerator and other draws, I can go 48 hours without running the generator or plugging in.

LiPo batteries are GREAT!

I have 600 watts of solar on the roof and it's helpful, but by itself not a solution.  In January when the sun is low, I get about 18 amps at noon, which tapers off sharply as the sun gets even lower.   I have never attempted to calculate amp hours, but I'd be surprised if I get more than 60 amp hours on a sunny day in January.  

Dwight

[jacwjames]

If you have the height clearance the Samsung RF18 is a good option.  Since I installed mine in 2019 there are other refrigerators that may work as far as dimensions, however, the Samsung is proven to have worked on a MSW inverter.  AJ Madision has a great search function that filters by size.

I have the furnace under mine with a lower ceiling height so I had to do a substantial amount of work to get mine to fit.  I had to lower the furnace to the floor, it is a Suburban which is a zero clearance furnace.  That got me 1  5/8" of clearance.   After the furnace was lowered I had to cut new holes for the air intake and exhaust through the side of the motorhome.   I then had to make a support the allowed for minimal clearance above the furnace.  I had ~3/4 to spare at the top so I could easily slide it in and out as I fitted it.  I made a dolly the right height so I could easily move it in and out.

To secure it I used the front leveling leg support bracket with some heavy brackets I bought from Lowes, this took care of the bottom.  In the rear and sides of the cabinet I fastened blocks of wood to keep it ~2" off the back and the blocks on the side keep it centered.  The side blocks I cut at an angle so that as I pushed the refrigerator back it centered it.   I bought some 2" aluminum angle at Lowes, cut 2 pieces ~12 inches long and drilled holes on one side that I could screw to the cabinet face.  I then used the heavy duty 3M auto trim tape to attach the angle to the side of the refrigerator, did this while refrigerator was in the correct position.  

After +12K miles the refrigerator hasn't moved.   Here's a link to a post I did on IRV2 https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/samsung-install-finally-done-461001.html

There are several posts on installing a residential refrigerator.  I tried to find the one I did on Monacoers but it only shows posts I started going only back one year. 

 

I did have to replace my batteries in 2021, I bought 4 new golf cart batteries from Sam's, they have did not have AGM in stock when I needed them but bought the better of the flooded.  I have 325 watt of solar, it does not quite keep up with my consumption so I normally have to run the generator for ~1.5 hours a day.  I installed a Bluesea MLACR that charges house batteries while driving so the alternator easily keeps up. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by jacwjames

[Dr4Film]

A photo of your current NotSoCold would help in suggesting ideas as to securing it as it differs depending on whether it will sit on the floor or will be on a platform.

The Samsung in my previous Windsor is secured from below up through the platform into the front feet. There are also three secure points in the rear using lag screws and fender washers. hasn't moved in 11 years and is now with the new coach owner.

The Same Samsung in our Dynasty was already installed when we purchased it earlier this year. No idea how they secured it and hopefully I will not need to find out.

I have run both Samsungs using 4 - 6 VDC Sam's Club GC-2 batteries wired in series/parallel with no issues. The Inverter in the Windsor is a MSW Xantrex/Trace 2000 Watt, and the Inverter in the Dynasty is a Magnum PSW 2000 Watt.

The Samsung RF-197 which is in both coaches used on average around 1.8 KW's each day. Not sure what the Samsung RF18 would use. Possibly some member has done a study using the P2 Kill-O-Watt over a few weeks or months to calculate what the amp/hour usage is for the RF-18.

Can't help you with any solar as I have never done that nor needed it.

[Tom Cherry]

52 minutes ago, Blacknight said:

Good morning All- My Norcold has cooked it's last meal! After reading many of the posts about similar problems, I have ordered a Samsung Rf18 which I will be installing in our 2007 Monaco Knight DFT. I love the convenience of propane and have for years but I will give that up for the fear of fire. The install looks to be straight forward but I would like to know how to secure the new rig from moving around? Any additional tips on this install would be great.

Now that i'm replacing the frig, my thoughts are how to power it when not plugged in and off the generator. I do not know how old my Interstate batteries are so I think it's best to replace them (4 x 6v). I talked to Deka battery and they suggested I go to AGM style as they are maintenance free and will provide longer power cycles. Our coach has the magnum 2000 ME2012 inverter charger unit.

With the information given so far, will this be a simple replacement system and all be capatable we each other?

My next question is, with the information I have given so far, what would I need to change-or keep the same-to add some solar to the roof for charging the new battery bank when we boondock? I know very little about solar so it would be best to explain what I would need to buy to make it work correctly-

Thanks for your time and knowledge-Steve

This is the consensus of many members here that have done such as well as a lot of discussions at the Gathering and also battery life and longevity.

First, I like your setup…so this ain’t your first rodeo.  You have a MSW inverter, but many folks have and are still running them with good or excellent success so that is not an obstacle….

Next.  The Samsung is the choice, but it depends on your opening as well as if you have the dreaded “furnace” under the Norcold.  You need to do some searching on the Samsung as there are probably 20 PLUS discussions…..but it is a doable job.  Remember with any residential refrigerator, you remove all the interior or wall insulation,  DO NOT INSULATE the unit,  it need air circulation.  You will also need to insulate the lower outside access panel or opening and put some insulation in the top vent…you probably have the roof vent, so pull it and stuff some in there.  If you don’t, you will loose heat and AC and if it gets cold, odds are the Res Refer will shut down as the new energy efficiency models will not work on a back porch or in an unheated garage.

Batteries,  many of us are somewhat antiquated.  We get 8 - 10 years out of Flooded Trojan T-105 cells.  We use Battery Miser caps from Amazon and check them 3 or 4 times a year.  We check the Specific Gravity and we exercise them to run them down to 50% or so and they last and last.  We see more failure of AGM due to improper charging and bad inverter setup and abuse.  They are great if you totally understand them and also maintain them.  But they are not indestructible.  Quite the contrary.  They do take too well to improper charging or setup and many folks have to replace them prematurely and go back to Flooded cells with CAPS.  Folks will debate and discuss, but that is the opinion of myself and another moderator and we get excellent life.  Lithiums are great if you know their shortcomings s and folks usually abandon the inverter”s charger and are careful and are really high techie types.

Your Samsung, with good batteries, operated in the Energy Saver Mode and the Icemaker OFF will require 2 - 3 hours or Genny charging when off shore.  That is almost the 11 th Commandment.  MOST folks convert their puck or halogen incandescent lights to LED to conserve boon docking power. Most will also have a power strip and turn off all the electronics in the front and rear entertainment centers.  Even “OFF”, they are in standby and suck up juice.  That is a fact….and we have man6 that ran extensive tests….

YOU WILL LOVE A Res Refer and wonder why you waited so long.

Finally, it is fool hardy to try to drill holes to mount some sort of “door lock” as there are coolant tubes everywhere  Much info on locks.  I used a 3D printed one that is made by a small business person.  It works great.  I also designed a “fastening” system that uses SS or Aluminum panel held with High Bond 3M double stick tape and and some, screwed to them wooden braces.  Many have done many different methods,  again…search…this is a well documented topic and just about everything that is to be found anywhere is here…

Do a LOT of RESEARCH.  Measure and remeasure.  Most removed a window as getting in and out the old and new have damaged some dashs.  It can be done,,but the horror stories and getting it wedged and the RV tech’s insistence….mine went in and out and it was a piece of cake….through a side slide window,

 

[Will52]

1 hour ago, Will52 said:

We converted our 1200 with the Dutch air 12 volt working perfectly.

35 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

A photo of your current NotSoCold would help in suggesting ideas as to securing it as it differs depending on whether it will sit on the floor or will be on a platform.

The Samsung in my previous Windsor is secured from below up through the platform into the front feet. There are also three secure points in the rear using lag screws and fender washers. hasn't moved in 11 years and is now with the new coach owner.

The Same Samsung in our Dynasty was already installed when we purchased it earlier this year. No idea how they secured it and hopefully I will not need to find out.

I have run both Samsungs using 4 - 6 VDC Sam's Club GC-2 batteries wired in series/parallel with no issues. The Inverter in the Windsor is a MSW Xantrex/Trace 2000 Watt, and the Inverter in the Dynasty is a Magnum PSW 2000 Watt.

The Samsung RF-197 which is in both coaches used on average around 1.8 KW's each day. Not sure what the Samsung RF18 would use. Possibly some member has done a study using the P2 Kill-O-Watt over a few weeks or months to calculate what the amp/hour usage is for the RF-18.

Can't help you with any solar as I have never done that nor needed it.

 

[Martinvz]

I removed the Norcold and installed the Hisense in the same opening with no modifications. The furnace is below the fridge and also water, kitchen waste water and propane. Any change would imply major surgery.
The front of the new fridge is screwed to the platform and a bar across the top holds it in place, at the moment. However I would like to improve this and get a better placement and more secure fastening, planned for when we return home. 
It has been discussed many times that a PSW inverter is best. Our MSW works fine and is not in need for replacement. Fortunately a friend gave me a 2kw PSW inverter that I installed close to the battery box and the positive is tied into the battery cutoff switch. The only device using this inverter is the fridge using a new dedicated cable. Overkill? Sure but it was free.

The doors are secured with a bungee cord to a hasp on the wood frame and the white clip on the other side of the door.

This fridge was selected because it fit the existing opening. However the right side hinge would cause the door to hit the opposing cabinet and we had to settle for the left hinge. 
Would we do it again? Absolutely!

[Jdw12345]

Subscribing, I’m hoping to do this to our coach in the next year or so.

 Sorry I didn’t have any suggestions!

Edited February 19, 2023 by Jdw12345

[jacwjames]

After I installed the refrigerator I did not install a lock but used a strap.  Could count how many times I forgot to fasten the trap on the fridge and while driving the freezer would open, not a great feeling while waiting to pull off to put the strap on. 

I know that you can buy a lock but IMHO the prices for what you got was ridiculous.

Last year there was a post on IRV2, an individual posted on a lock he made with readily available parts.  Looked like a viable option so I ordered the parts and made one.   I ordered a push button hood lock and a long connecting nut, the rest of the parts were available at Lowes. 

 

[hex_nut]

I have had a Samsung RF18 for the last 5 years and am very happy with it.  I lowered the floor as much as possible (my wife is vertically challenged).  With the removal of the front leveling legs, and the attachment of angle brackets, the lower front was firmly attached to the framework.  Wooden wedges were attached at the top rear and small black aluminum plates were attached to the framework on each side at the top that fit between the fridge door and fridge cabinet (see upper right in photo).  The installation has been solid thru 5 years of travel.  My home built key lock for the doors and freezer is obvious.  Someone told me the new RF18 does not have external handles, so another form of latch would have to be fabricated.

Richard 

[eddie4ne]

Martin,

we installed the Hisense 17.2 but like Samsung installs, we had to lower the furnace and “floor” for the refrigerator. Went well until it hung up on the ceiling light! Got the  Drexel out and replaced the light cover with flat plexiglass- problem solved! We also went hi-tech with securing the doors as you did!😂 We had used the bungee approach and already had the bracket installed from use when, 2 days into a 4 month journey, the Norcold crapped out. Plan B was a 7 cu dorm refrigerator, which considering, worked well!

Jim,

I like your idea to secure the doors. Can you point me in the direction of the specific parts needed. “The push button hood lock.” Where do you store the “lock” when parked?

[Rich Cutler]

I researched the subject to death.  Samsung RF18 was my conclusion.  I did get the 3D printed with twisted aluminum bracket holder for the doors by a private party as Cherry suggests.  Works great and keeps doors cracked when not in use.   My Windsor has access panel for plumbing under the refrigerator and for electrical for the kitchen slide, so we keep a foldable step for the top shelf.  That is the pain.  For travel we use the spring loaded double closet stops like a curtain road hanger, to keep thing from falling out when we stop travel.   Batteries lasts the day, run genset a few hours each day and that's it when boondocking.  We have Sams golf cart battery bank of four.

Wish we had changed out the refrigerator when we purchased the unit used one year old.

[jacwjames]

There had  been a previous post on refrigerator locks, this is what I posted there

"The lock uses a Push Button Quick Release Hood Pin Lock.  It has to be a longer one, this was the best option I could find, there are a bunch of short ones listed on Ebay but they aren't long enough, you need the ~4" shaft due to the thickness of the doors.   https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NC7W4ZP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Also needed a long Coupling nut, I looked at different sources and this was the best price even though I ended up getting 4 of them left.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/353793632859

From Lowes I bought a couple 1.5" diameter fender washers and a short tapered screw and I found a ~2.5" diameter floor protector.  I had some good two sided adhesive tape. 

I used two of the fender washers and the tapered screw to attach the coupling nut to the washers.  Drove the screws in with an impact driver to get it really tight.  I then took my side grinder and ground the head of the screw flush with the washer.  I put the adhesive tape on using alcohol to clean the surface but did not remove the film yet. 

I took the floor protector and drilled an 11/16" hole in the center, this was the diameter of the the push button lock, it was a tight fit, had to use a channel locks to screw the push button into the floor protector, I didn't use any glue because of the tight fit, eventually I may have to redo but for now it is tight. 

Put the long threaded pin in the coupling nut and attached the push button lock and test fitted to the fridge, I ended up cutting about 3/4" off the threaded shaft.   Once I was satisfied it was the right length I used a jam nut to lock the long shaft into the coupling nut.  I used alcohol to clean the fridge, peeled the tape film off the large washers and fit the the assembly onto the fridge positioning it so the push button lock with floor protector would hold all three doors closed.   I did paint the floor protector black.  The threaded shaft and washers seem to be pretty solid,  I gave a couple of hard jerks on the door and it all held fast.  "

 

For now we store the push button in the refrigerator draw, I may look at a better option to make sure we remember to put it on. 

[eddie4ne]

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

The lock uses a Push Button Quick Release Hood Pin Lock.  It has to be a longer one, this was the best option I could find, there are a bunch of short ones listed on Ebay but they aren't long enough, you need the ~4" shaft due to the thickness of the doors.   https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NC7W4ZP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Jim,

You had me with hood lock! I think your idea just might be replicated in our green 2002 Windsor. Since I am head of “procurement and resources” 😃, I needed to understand because “development and production” (Ed) has to have everything he needs. Sometimes there arises issues when HR needs to get involved(and since I am resources) it ends quickly 😂🤣😂!

Love the ideas that you geniuses come up with! Thanks for sharing

Sharon

[Steven P]

Steve,

Here's the link to my thread on my fridge.  I went GE after not great Samsung experiences at homes.  I also replaced my 2 12V marine batteries w 4: 6V Trojan t105 AGM batteries and have been pleased.  I don't boondock much though. 

 

[pcallahan97009]

On 2/19/2023 at 7:14 AM, Blacknight said:

I considered doing the conversion but I did the dollar bill test on the seals and they were not tight like they should be and I understand they can't be replaced.

You can't replace the seals but you can replace the doors.  Years ago (about 7) our seals were separating.  We used duct tape to keep them together.  Sealed great.  Recently the unit bit the dust.  We replaced with a 10 Cu Ft Frigidaire ref/freezer. We have storage next to.  We already had and still have a 10 Cu Ft so we have equivalent of 20 Cu ft. 

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, eddie4ne said:

Jim,

You had me with hood lock! I think your idea just might be replicated in our green 2002 Windsor. Since I am head of “procurement and resources” 😃, I needed to understand because “development and production” (Ed) has to have everything he needs. Sometimes there arises issues when HR needs to get involved(and since I am resources) it ends quickly 😂🤣😂!

Love the ideas that you geniuses come up with! Thanks for sharing

Sharon

I copied the idea from a poster on IRV2, so I'm not the genius, just the copy cat.  😁

[johncvandoren@gmail.com]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:54 AM, Blacknight said:

Good morning All- My Norcold has cooked it's last meal! After reading many of the posts about similar problems, I have ordered a Samsung Rf18 which I will be installing in our 2007 Monaco Knight DFT. I love the convenience of propane and have for years but I will give that up for the fear of fire. The install looks to be straight forward but I would like to know how to secure the new rig from moving around? Any additional tips on this install would be great.

Now that i'm replacing the frig, my thoughts are how to power it when not plugged in and off the generator. I do not know how old my Interstate batteries are so I think it's best to replace them (4 x 6v). I talked to Deka battery and they suggested I go to AGM style as they are maintenance free and will provide longer power cycles. Our coach has the magnum 2000 ME2012 inverter charger unit.

With the information given so far, will this be a simple replacement system and all be capatable we each other?

My next question is, with the information I have given so far, what would I need to change-or keep the same-to add some solar to the roof for charging the new battery bank when we boondock? I know very little about solar so it would be best to explain what I would need to buy to make it work correctly-

Thanks for your time and knowledge-Steve

Three years ago I replaced the Norcold 1210LIM with an LG 21cf counter depth French Door residential fridge.  Was able to access a few inches of hollow cabinet space.  Switched the Romex from a shore power connection to one supplied from the Inverter.  I replaced the (4) 6VDC deep cycle AGM batteries (250 net useable AH) with (3) 12VDC Lithium Ion Phosphate 100AH batteries (300 useable AH) and upgraded to a Victron inverter-charger.  After boondocking last week @ the Havasu Fireworks show,  I may add a 4th LI battery, and am contemplating a full roof of solar.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by johncvandoren@gmail.com
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