EasyStarts on Original 2004 ACs?

[BlueCastleRV]

Hi folks,

 

Air conditioners are working well. Does the group here advise installation for prolonging their life Or waste of money? Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Mike

[Ivan K]

I don't know if it prolongs its life but I installed one in the center AC unit (still original) to have an option to run it with one of the others when on 30A hookup. Works fine for that purpose. 

[timaz996]

I have them on both of my A/C's. You don't even notice the compressor kick in. Very smooth. I have had to replace both of my units and I'm guessing they are not as well made as the originals but I don't know. I can run my bedroom unit off of the inverter. ( I wired it that way)

[96 EVO]

6 hours ago, Tim-AZ said:

 I have had to replace both of my units and I'm guessing they are not as well made as the originals but I don't know. 

I think that's a valid assumption!

[Tom Cherry]

The decision needs to be made based on use and realistic expectations and overall costs and one “resources” and future intentions.

I believe the soft starts are in the $319.  So, that will be an expense plus labor if you are now electrically incline.  Could be $638 for a dual unit.  The cost of two new Dometics and the new Thermostat is around, dealer installed, $5200.  The real question is how much use have they had and the likelihood of a future failure.  Doing a dual system piece Neal is, IMHO, a losing proposition.  You spend, dealer installed, $500 to dumb down the new unit….and hope the other one and the thermostat hangs in there.  Then you spend another $200 of so, assuming you got the original “smart” control module to have it reinstalled in the first unit.  So $700 lost and you might recoup $100 for the dumb module on eBay.  

The other issue is the predicted failure.  We have full timers with 07’s and they are failing.  II know several early 2000 folks that have already replaced.  I know some mid to late 2000 owners that had a failure and replaced.  My plan….run until one dies and then do both as I don’t won’t to spend $5900  for a system that could have been replaced earlier for $5,200….plus, with inflation, next year it could cost $500 more.  My rule in an inflationary economy….buy it today….it will cost more and it is tough to invest your money and get it to grow faster than today’s inflation rate.

My technical questions

I ASSUME the soft start will work on a new Unit…the company has very little Tech Support and a lot of fancy web advertising.  If I had failed AC, would it be wise to put them in new units?  

How long do the Soft Starts last.  I thought I had read that they had a shorter life that a stock or OEM capacitor?  Is any RV or OTR AC manufacturer using that technology?

I had to make “buy new vs fix old” decisions on equipment that ranged up to a Million….one needs to think through it and get the best value.

Has anyone put in a Soft Start and the AC failed with a year?

My concern is more for the groups benefit….as the poster asked so we all have a good understanding and not have to make a quick decision.

Thanks

[Gweedo]

?,  I have two ac's, the place we go to at the river only has 30amp on the shore and 50amp 100 yards from the shore.  Since we take our boat we like to be near it on the shore.  The outside temps range from 105-120 (we don't go after 105)  When the park is full the volts drop to 104-108, so I use the Hughes Autoformer to boost the volts up.  

Can these easy starts be used in order to run two ac's?  or can I install one and run both?  Our coach is an 07, Ac's work great but it would be nice to have two ac's during these temps.  If installed, do you use the same thermostat system?  

I thought about the newer 15000? ac units, but I hear they are loud,  and I don't think that would change anything on a 30amp.  

Pros cons, thanks!!

 

[Ivan K]

The main point of soft start unit is to lower compressor start current so that the initial inrush does not trip a 30A breaker with an other AC unit already running or starting a single unit on even lower rated hookup. It works with any version board and thermostat. I used it with 4 button, 5 button and now with Microair, no difference. Even in my shop AC unit. Yes, it involves rewiring the 120V side on the roof and eliminates one of the existing capacitors. They can be bought for little over $200, I got it for even less from a marine store. Since I only have it in the center unit, I have to set the thermostat so that this is the only unit that would cycle while on 30 amps, good with me.

[96 EVO]

40 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

?,  I have two ac's, the place we go to at the river only has 30amp on the shore and 50amp 100 yards from the shore.  Since we take our boat we like to be near it on the shore.  The outside temps range from 105-120 (we don't go after 105)  When the park is full the volts drop to 104-108, so I use the Hughes Autoformer to boost the volts up.  

Can these easy starts be used in order to run two ac's?  or can I install one and run both?  Our coach is an 07, Ac's work great but it would be nice to have two ac's during these temps.  If installed, do you use the same thermostat system?  

I thought about the newer 15000? ac units, but I hear they are loud,  and I don't think that would change anything on a 30amp.  

Pros cons, thanks!!

 

I melted the plug on a 30A cord attempting to run 2 ac's on 30, with my Hughes autoformer on line. I was drawing 27-28A with both running.

Don't 'think' these soft starts reduce the amp draw while the unit is running.

I don't even attempt running two on 30A anymore!

[Gweedo]

Thank you for the responses, I  talked to one guy at the river who had another 20amp outlet on his pole, most do not have them.  he said he made an adapter/pigtail that he plugged into the 30 amp and 20amp to create a 50amp service into his coach.  As stated in prior threads I'm not an electrical dude by any means, I don't think I want to try his set up. 

[Ivan K]

3 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I melted the plug on a 30A cord attempting to run 2 ac's on 30, with my Hughes autoformer on line. I was drawing 27-28A with both running.

Don't 'think' these soft starts reduce the amp draw while the unit is running.

I don't even attempt running two on 30A anymore!

Exactly right. Once the AC unit starts, softstart is out of the picture. If the 30A hookup can't handle 30A at sustained correct voltage, there's no help. I suspect the autoformer takes some more current to bump the voltage too.

[96 EVO]

They claim 1A, but, if your units are seeing 120v instead of 105v, they are going to draw less amps.

Oh, the plug that melted was upstream to the autoformer.

Adding them up, I had 6 connection points between the outlet and cord reel, so I guess each was a potential failure point!

Edited April 28, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Gweedo said:

Thank you for the responses, I  talked to one guy at the river who had another 20amp outlet on his pole, most do not have them.  he said he made an adapter/pigtail that he plugged into the 30 amp and 20amp to create a 50amp service into his coach.  As stated in prior threads I'm not an electrical dude by any means, I don't think I want to try his set up. 

If you are not electrically inclined.....then DO NOT DO THIS.  Yes, there are individuals that can do the "cheater cord" hook up.  You can get power.  But, you can also damage you system.  When you are on 50 Amp service, there are THREE wires.  Red (Line 1) & Black (Line 2)....sometimes the colors are reversed....does NOT matter.  The third wire is the WHITE or Neutral.  The Neutral wire is rated for say 55-57 Amps.  SO, 50 is pushing.  NOW HERE is where it gets tricky.

With a FULL 50 Amp service, the Reds and Blacks are "OUT of Phase".  Since that is 240 (Red measured to Black.... then your MH uses 120.  SO, Red or Black measured to Neutral....120 VAC.  That is how it is designed.  BUT your Generator is NOT 240 VAC.  It has TWO lines....YES...but if you measure from Red to Black....ZERO Volts.  Those two lines are in Phase or on the same side.  Your Generator has a 30 (maybe 35 amp) Circuit Breaker.  If you run your generator and load it to high heaven with heaters and AC and hot water (electric) tanks and such, you can easily get 35 Amps on EACH side (red and black). BUT...then your white (Neutral) is pulling 70 amps and that is a problem.  That is why we tell folks to NOT load up a 7.5 or 8KW because you can overload the wiring.  Monaco did it....if they have run two #6 and a #8 for the neutral....from the generator to the ATS and then on to the main panel...FINE... They didn't.

OK....when you have the 50 amp OUT OF PHASE....the Neutral only has the DIFFERENCE of Line 1 and Line 2.  If Line 1 is pulling 30 amps and Line 2 is pulling 15....then ALL the White Neutral pull is 15.  Take it at that....unless you do more googling.

NOW....when you are on 30 Amps.  You have ONLY one line...a SINGLE RED....(or Black). Then the 30 - 50 amp adapter splices Line 2 and Line 1 together.  SO, you can get 30 amps on line leg and zero on the other....or 15 and 15. That is FINE....  BUT, the AC's draw maybe 18/19 amps on start up.  The Soft Start has a circuit board that does not let the motor hit the peak (inductive) amps.  When the compressor is running, it might pull 15 Amps....sometimes, depending on load and conditions....even 13.5 Amp.  BUT.....the Soft Start does NOT, I THINK, reduce the motor's load when running.  It just keeps from hitting the higher voltage....and that is how it work.  When the AC's get some age....then the starting amps go sky high.  In reality....if you put (now this is on the OLDER units that Monaco put in) a Soft Start on when the MH was sold, then you MIGHT get a little longer life.  

Think of the Soft Start as a Bandaid....on a wound that needs to be sewn up.  It will last a while....and you can go on....but as the AC ages, it will be more WORN and require a higher starting Amp load....

NOW....the CHEATER CORDS.  They do this.  They feed 30 Amps into Line 1 (the round one).  THEN they feed up to 15 or 20 amps on Line 2.  SO, you can have the equivalent of maybe 50 amps total. NOW....the falacy....one of the lines will barely have 20 amps....so it will be pushing the limits to run ONE AC.  

Then, where is the Inverter?  OPPS....if you have it wired so that the Front AC and the Inverter (typically on Line2) are on that 20 amp side....ISSUES.  They will BARELY power on the 30.

Bottom LINE....unless you have absolutely NO Other heavy load, running 2 AC's on a 30 is risky....because if they BOTH start up or cycle the compressor ON at once...you will see up to 40 Amps.  BINGO...something will give...either the breaker of the cord.  The cord is only designed for 30 Amps....that is why many 30 - 50 cords burn up.

I have, as have many others, experimented and tried to make 30 work for TWO AC's.  NADA.  Even with the GAS refer on gas and the Water heater on Propane (or the AquaHot on Diesel), you can NOT run (efficiently and also it will DAMAGE YOUR EMS...as the EMS will keep cutting on and and off the AC....NOT GOOD).

That's it....a little long and the answer is NO....we do NOT recommend it.  You need to know how the pedestal is wired...and they are all different...so the cheater cord (your neighbor) MIGHT work on your pedestal and not another and it really does NOT do what it should.  IF there were TWO 30 Amp receptacles and TWO circuit breakers....then, you COULD in theory make it work.  BUT, you run the risk of overloading your lines.  Run the Genny occassionally if you need BOTH AC's on.  That is the best option.  You MIGHT spend, at todays prices, $!.50 to $2 per hour (GENNY ON) for the cooling....interior small table top recirculating fans work well.  I use them all the time....even when driving to get air up front to me as we typically never run the front and run the genny... 

[Jim Pratten]

Soft starters limit motor inrush current on induction motor starting that commonly draw 6 to 8 times the running current.  The high inrush current may exceed the electrical source capacity (think Honda EU2000 generator) and does introduce stresses in the motor and load and arguably spikes the motor winding temperature.  Once the motor is at operating RPM, the soft starter should be out of the circuit.

Whether the cost of the soft starter is recoverable with extended equipment service life is doubtful IMO. They are commonly a solution for those folks trying to run an air conditioner off a small 2kw generator. The much lower inrush allows the generator to successfully start the motor without the generator stalling at inrush currents in the 75 to 100 amp range.

in my opinion, a better return on investment to extend our rotating equipment life is an autoformer (Hughes for one) designed to maintain adequate voltage at those parks with weak power distribution systems. We commonly see voltages hover around 100 to 110 volts during peak load conditions. If, say the voltage is reduced 20%, then the current must increase at least 20% to sustain the same load.  20% more current thru the windings results in much higher temperatures and consequently an increase in winding insulation breakdown with shorter motor life. An old rule of thumb was every 20F increase in winding temperature results in 50% loss of life. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Jim Pratten

[Gweedo]

Thank you guys, I do have the hughes autoformer.  I'm so dizzy now I think I may get vertigo, lol.   I have basic knowledge of electricity so I understand what you are saying and I really appreciate the responses.  When it comes to the rig I error on the side of caution since everything is so sensitive.   If it gets to hot at the river I'll just float with another beer, that always works.   

I hope to tackle the GFI issue I spoke about on another thread soon.  Have a GREAT day!! 

[Tom Cherry]

6 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

Thank you guys, I do have the hughes autoformer.  I'm so dizzy now I think I may get vertigo, lol.   I have basic knowledge of electricity so I understand what you are saying and I really appreciate the responses.  When it comes to the rig I error on the side of caution since everything is so sensitive.   If it gets to hot at the river I'll just float with another beer, that always works.   

I hope to tackle the GFI issue I spoke about on another thread soon.  Have a GREAT day!! 

Take deep breaths.  LOL.  

First...the Hughes Autoformer makes sure that your Voltage is where is should be in case the CG (or power company) has low voltage so you don't damage your electronics as well as put a strain on the AC.  When the voltage drops, UNFORTUNATELY, then the amperage has to go up.  Thus, on a 50 Amp service you will have more capapacity and can operate normally.  Think about it like this.  You ADD (you have two lines) the Amperage... so 50 + 50 equals 100 Amps (think about water flowing through a hose.  

BUT, when you are on 30 Amps.  That is SPLIT between both lines.  It is NOT 30 on each side for a total of 60.  IT IS ONLY 30....PERIOD.  So, you only have 1/3 of the Amperage....or you only have 1/3 of the water flowing from the garden hose.  If you were irrigating or watering plants....it will take 3 X longer.

Some or maybe a majority believe that when they are on 30 Amps....they have 60% of the power when on 50.  NOPE....quite the contrary....only 30% of the power....and that ain't nowhere near enough to properly operate TWO AC's.  In your case, you will damage your EMS or make it fail quicker because it is the WEAK LINK in your AC system. It turns ON and OFF the 2nd AC when the current gets too high and 30 Amps will not support it.  SO....never try to run 2 AC's on 30

NOW....time to give you a headache again.  IF you are on 30 Amps....and the voltage is low.  THEN the Hughes Autoformer kicks in.  BUT, when it RAISES the voltage, it has to LOWER the Amperage.  So, in a bad situation where you are on 30 Amps and the voltage is say 100 and the Hughes kicks in...you might ONLY HAVE 25 Amps.  That means you REALLY can't or should not run two AC's and I RECOMMEND that you turn down the Inverter Charging to 50% rather than run it at 80%.  That way you have MORE power for your essentials....and your batteries will still be OK.  If you do that, put a sticky note above the Inverter remote to SET IT BACK to 80%.  You will put LESS stress on your electrical system is you reduce the charging load on your inverter.

Hope the head gets better.

NEXT UP.  Use the Search Box and put in GFCI and use the Dropdown on the right to select TOPICS.  Then read them. I don't know what your GFCI issues are but there are two common fixes.  Replace the GFCI with a 20 Amp on made by Eaton Wiring, Hubbell or Leviton.  NO OTHER BRANDS.  If you have other issues, post them...

Good Luck....eventually all this will make sense.  I was in my second year of Electrical Engineering and changed Engineering Majors and I really had a great background since I had been wiring houses when I was 13.  Now at 78, I STILL learn things daily....

BUT, whe

[saflyer]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:48 AM, Tom Cherry said:

The decision needs to be made based on use and realistic expectations and overall costs and one “resources” and future intentions.

I believe the soft starts are in the $319.  So, that will be an expense plus labor if you are now electrically incline.  Could be $638 for a dual unit.  The cost of two new Dometics and the new Thermostat is around, dealer installed, $5200.  The real question is how much use have they had and the likelihood of a future failure.  Doing a dual system piece Neal is, IMHO, a losing proposition.  You spend, dealer installed, $500 to dumb down the new unit….and hope the other one and the thermostat hangs in there.  Then you spend another $200 of so, assuming you got the original “smart” control module to have it reinstalled in the first unit.  So $700 lost and you might recoup $100 for the dumb module on eBay.  

The other issue is the predicted failure.  We have full timers with 07’s and they are failing.  II know several early 2000 folks that have already replaced.  I know some mid to late 2000 owners that had a failure and replaced.  My plan….run until one dies and then do both as I don’t won’t to spend $5900  for a system that could have been replaced earlier for $5,200….plus, with inflation, next year it could cost $500 more.  My rule in an inflationary economy….buy it today….it will cost more and it is tough to invest your money and get it to grow faster than today’s inflation rate.

My technical questions

I ASSUME the soft start will work on a new Unit…the company has very little Tech Support and a lot of fancy web advertising.  If I had failed AC, would it be wise to put them in new units?  

How long do the Soft Starts last.  I thought I had read that they had a shorter life that a stock or OEM capacitor?  Is any RV or OTR AC manufacturer using that technology?

I had to make “buy new vs fix old” decisions on equipment that ranged up to a Million….one needs to think through it and get the best value.

Has anyone put in a Soft Start and the AC failed with a year?

My concern is more for the groups benefit….as the poster asked so we all have a good understanding and not have to make a quick decision.

Thanks

Should we compare and contrast Easy Start vs. Soft Start?

[Tom Cherry]

7 minutes ago, saflyer said:

Should we compare and contrast Easy Start vs. Soft Start?

Hard Wired Versions

If you don’t mind hard wiring a soft start into your ac unit, then I personally believe this is the best option. So which should you choose, SoftStartRV or Micro-Air Easy Start?

Honestly, they both do the same exact thing and both do it very well. The pro of the SoftStartRV is that it has a slightly smaller footprint, doesn’t require a “learning process”, but it is slightly more expensive, even with the Pagosa discount.

A copy & paste From a supplier web page.

https://pagosasupply.co/blog/soft-start-or-easy-start-external-or-hard-wired

I standby my comments.  Call Microaire for tech support….maybe I got them on a bad day….

I mistakenly, after listening to their looping commercial, misunderstood that their product was a “Soft Start”….but, its name is EASY START. And really didn’t pick up there are two different vendors.  Each is using ramp up starting to prevent the spiking.  

Do some googling.  I still don’t know if the newer units have a standard capacitor or the motors have improved.  Technology advances.  One can now get a more energy efficient home submersible well pump.  If the home as wired properly for a 3/4 HP pump, the start up amps was close to 16-17.  So, a one HP pump would not work on the #12 Wiring & proper 20 amp breaker.

NOW many manufacturers are offering a one HP PUMP with a 10.1 spike starting.  Guess what, I upgraded.  One needs to compare the FLA & starting Amps on a new unit.  Maybe worth putting one in….maybe not.

But, $600 or so for a band aid on a system that has an out of production thermostat which will cost $140 to be repaired…or spend $250 for a 5 button Microair replacement…..neither of which will work on the new Dometic systems ….and the alternative units (RecPro) must retain the old 5 button or Microair to get your existing furnace to work as the RecPro has no furnace mode….

The numbers and options add up quickly and don’t work for me….but maybe for others….

[Gary Cole]

On 4/29/2023 at 7:20 AM, Tom Cherry said:

50 + 50 equals 100 Amps

? The current carried by each conductor is still an average  RMS of 50 amps, because peak amplitudes of the sine waves,  are 180 degrees apart in single phase. 

Tom it might be more understandable for some to use KVA, (ignoring power factor for simplicity) in order to compare the actual energy available vs voltage.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Gary Cole

[Tom Cherry]

10 minutes ago, Gary Cole said:

? The current carried by each conductor is still an average  RMS of 50 amps, because peak amplitudes of the sine waves,  are 180 degrees apart in single phase. 

Tom it might be more understandable for some to use KVA, (ignoring power factor for simplicity) in order to compare the actual energy available vs voltage.

Maybe….and if you can or will simplify and translate my explanation…..and/or correct any mistakes….I take no offense.  It is all a matter of how one was schooled or educated.  We each learn the same physical or electrical or whatever theories in different ways.  My DC background was the sophomore classes in Electrical Engineering….and I totally understood DC circuits.  But actually applying that and trouble shooting has been a long and arduous process….but I NOW a have a more practical understanding of how our systems work.

AC, to me, from a precision standpoint, is a bit trickier.  I understand voltage drops for various conductors and most charts don’t get into AC v DC.

And the Cosine function for the calculus AC formula gave me headaches.  I think your point about KVA is that a 30 Amp pedestal at nominal 120 VAC is 3.600 KVA.  If you decrease the voltage, then the amperage goes up.  Likewise, if you try to increase the amperage, the voltage goes down.  

Still same principle.  As well as same results.  Most folks, with the Intellitec EMS will have difficulty running 2 AC’s probably with the (spike reduction units) on 30 amps.  I have seen, since i have a Progressive HW50C unit with an internal remote….that displays Line 1 V&A….and Line 2 V&A that the typical 14 YO 15 KW compressor will pull around 15 or so amps.  Yes…it varies and I really can’t explain why.  But two 15KW units will have a combined 30 Amp draw, as measured by the Intellitec EMS.  That is the max….so if a res refer or a TV or any AC appliance is in use….the amps exceed 30.  The EMS Sheds.  What many, and I assume you do, know is that the shedding relays used by Intellitec were NOT designed for Inductive loads like compressor start up.  So,  there may be a side benefit with a reduced or ramped up amperage.  Intellitec documented to Monaco that there were 3 HVAC relays that MUST br used to “shed” an HVAC system. OPPS…these were designed for low voltage and you would have had an analog signal to each unit.  NOPE….Dometics have a Multiplexed signal.  Monaco would have had to add a 12 VDC circuit to each AC….with a Relay cutting off the 120 VAC to the compressor.  Nope more cost and labor.  There is NO WAY to shut down, I think or was lead to believe, a control module.  The simplest was to have the AC switched.  A NC relay would keep the hot side connected.  The EMS a relays will work with a NC or NO system.  So, when shedding was needed, the EMS relay closed….giving 12 VDC to the NC coil….and then the 120 VAC line opens.

Bottom line, trying to eeek out 2 HVAC….even a 15 & 13.5 KW, will cause the EMS to chatter or keep allowing or shedding the rear AC….which is the cause of EMS Relay failures….

Please offer any other explanation….if that helps others understand…

Thanks….

 

[Ivan K]

So I have done some amateurish capture for start and run power data of two identical old penguins just minutes apart (same ambient temperature), top one is with Easystart, the lower 2 windows without one. These are screenshots of top video frames. Feeding from 20A extension cord and 0.07 Amps consumption as a starting point. You'll notice significantly lower starting current (17 vs 31) and watt requirement ( half the Watts with Easystart). Not much difference once running. Also notice that Voltage times Amperage is far from Power in Watts reading, until you multiply it by Power Factor. Magic of AC power right here. I think it tells a story... the run power will increase with rising head pressures but I certainly can run two units on a good 30A hookup and have done it a good number of times, carefully without using other appliances. I don't have any shedding features however to worry about.

[Tom Cherry]

20 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

So I have done some amateurish capture for start and run power data of two identical old penguins just minutes apart (same ambient temperature), top one is with Easystart, the lower 2 windows without one. These are screenshots of top video frames. Feeding from 20A extension cord and 0.07 Amps consumption as a starting point. You'll notice significantly lower starting current (17 vs 31) and watt requirement ( half the Watts with Easystart). Not much difference once running. Also notice that Voltage times Amperage is far from Power in Watts reading, until you multiply it by Power Factor. Magic of AC power right here. I think it tells a story... the run power will increase with rising head pressures but I certainly can run two units on a good 30A hookup and have done it a good number of times, carefully without using other appliances. I don't have any shedding features however to worry about.

Cool.  Now, to understand….if these are original, per your brochure, they were 13.5 KW.  LATER on…and I have no idea when, Monaco used a 15 Kw paired with a 13.5 Kw.  That was on an 07 Diplomat.  Folks with those were the ones that I talked to about the RecPro units and the issues of controlling their furnaces and having to keep their 5 button systems in place as there was no way, without external wire mold to put in individual thermostats….

Then later on, they went, on SOME models to twin 15’s like I have….and that was all the way up to the Sigs.  The center units were the smaller 13.5.

I know for a fact that the 2009 or so vintage 15 KW pulls closer to 13/15 amps.  You grabbed a digital or maybe a peak level.  What you have makes sense.  The Easy Start is doing its job by shaving off the peak inductive load.  The run amps, remember they are for a 13.5 should be the same. 

If I understand, you took the measurements from a dedicated 120 VAC 20 AMP Source and not the units running off a given 30 or 50 amps.  My comments are based on how folks with no easy or soft start cannot run, consistently, on a 30 amp circuit even shutting down all other parasitic loads.  Even with two easy starts on your systems, an EMS will probably shed because when they both…and it will happen, power on….35 Amps.  Constantly shedding is the death knell to the EMS. 

This is great info.  If someone like me has two 15’s and easy/soft starts, you will, I suspect see close to 19 amps on startup and still the 13/15 running. I tried a complete shutdown of every electrical device one time in AL When 3 years old.  They wouldn’t stay on as one starting up and peaking 19 and the other even at 13….SHED.  I just shut down the rear….I didn’t want to destroy the EMS.

 BOTTOM LINE….The easy/soft start works….but even with one 15 & one 13.5, marginal and the EMS is at risk.  Run two 15’s….and the EMS is gonna chatter like a Halloween wind up set of false teeth.

NOW…the Dynasties don’t have the same EMS.  BUT still… 2 15’s under ideal conditions with all other parasitic AC loads off….will be marginal and over 30 Amps.

Folks need to understand.  As the units age….the inductive load goes up.  So, the easy/soft start reduces the loads…but as they age, they will eventually fail.  

if getting a few extra years and you might trade or sell…they MIGHT be a short term good investment.  But, again depending on one’s resources, if spending $600 or so and not having to fix or replace ($140 - $250) to keep the 5 button running….assuming you do the installs yourself….that $850 might be better spent on the conversion to two new units. It gets worse if you add in the tech labor….probably $1200 or so.

Each has to decide.  Your data shows they work, as advertised….but are they the best investment for all…it depends…

Thanks again.  Good stuff… 

 

 

[Gary Cole]

8 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

if you can or will simplify and translate my explanation

 

Tom you explain things quite well and oftentimes in an entertaining way. That is a bonus for all on the forum. Particularly for those who might not have a background in the topics. Which includes myself on pretty much every topic. I've been coasting along for 50,000 miles without any problems,,, none. So I haven't had to learn anything. However, now I live in fear that my luck will change, not if but when.  Just thought for those persons KVA might be easier to understand what occurs in the relationship including how power factor comes into play with those loads which have an inductive element.    

Edited May 1, 2023 by Gary Cole

[Georgia Mike]

When I owned my 38’ Fleetwood Discovery it had two ac units. It was from the factory a 30 amp Coach. When I was looking to buy it from the owner and found this out I was like “30 amps are you kidding me” he said he never had a problem at all and I was like sure buddy. He eventually convinced me and I owned it for almost 10 years and ran both ac’s all the time. It did have a shedding system that would have shut off the compressors on one or both units when needed but both ran simultaneously most of the time. The front was a 13500 and the rear was an 11000 bth. Both units were old and starting to fail so I changed them both out with 13500 Colman Mach power saver  units that only draw 10 amps max. Those 13500 units kept that 38 foot Motorhome very cool even in 100 degree Florida weather. I would think two of those running on any 40 foot motorhome would work and only draw 20 amps max. They shedding system it had kept them from starting at the same time so you would need soft start capacitors. That set up worked for me well on that old Motorhome.

[96 EVO]

2 hours ago, Georgia Mike said:

When I owned my 38’ Fleetwood Discovery it had two ac units. It was from the factory a 30 amp Coach.  

It's odd what some manufacturers would do!

We have friends that owned a '02 30' Tiffin. It had only one a/c on the roof, yet, it was a 50A coach!

[BlueCastleRV]

Thanks for everyone’s input. Based on everything in this thread I’m inclined to not install EasyStarts on 19 YO AC’s. I already have a Hugh’s Autoformer for suspect electrical sources. I’ll put the $700 I would’ve spent towards the AC fund.