Recommendations for small inverter, charger, transfer switch,

[jacwjames]

Moderators, it this isn't allowed go ahead and delete!!!

I bought a 2020 Ford 250 Transit mid roof van for my wife with the main purpose is to transport her dogs around town and to dog shows.  I am going to fit it out starting with insulating the walls and ceiling.  I'll eventually put some sort of paneling up to finish out the van but will need to run wiring etc first and am just starting to order everything I need.

On the 12 volt side I am installing a ceiling vent fan, lights, and some 12 volt hours and usb charging station.

I will be installing a small inverter to power fans and misc small loads, larger loads will be taken care of by either generator or shore power hookup.   I do intend to install a roof AC unit, I changed out both my AC in my Windsor in 2021 and kept the old ones which were both in working condition.   In cooler weather a small portable heater will probably be sufficient.   Believe it or not the van has ~30K btu cooling capacity with the factory rear air and front air combined, so while driving should be pretty well set especially after insulating the rig.  

So what I'm looking for is recommendations for "stuff". 

What make/model of inverter? 

Battery charging

Transfer switch

May consider all in one depending on price. 

Initially not going to get fancy with battery.  I'll probably start with just a good 12 volt deep cycle marine, stationed near the van battery and tied together with a Bluesea MLACR to keep battery charged while driving.  May add a second battery down the road based on need. 

FWIW, we did stop a van conversion company to inquire abut adding a roof AC unit, the rough quote was $10K just for that, nothing else>>> YIKES!!

 

 

 

[JDCrow]

Lots of builders go with Renology.

I’m super partial to Victron for reliability, expansion, connectivity to other components and monitoring 

Go power is coming on strong in the market as a lot of new rv are coming with 300-400 watts solar and a 3000 inverter mostly for the 12v refers most manufacturers are using as standard equipment.

 

[jacwjames]

Thanks JD

The van conversion company we stopped at use GO Power equipment, they had a nice display that I took a picture of that had all necessary components.  Watched a video yesterday that used a small transfer switch that had some nice features. 

Also downloaded a brochure for Victron EasyPlus 1600 that had nice features, ~$1100 though but it ticks a lot of the boxes.  Not sure I need something that sophisticated. 

Besides, it will be way beyond my wives  understanding so leaning toward the KISS method. 

[cbr046]

Depending how KISS or frugal you want to go Amazon has a selection of inverters, even some Renogy models.  I would definitely go pure sine wave.

- bob

 

[Tom Cherry]

11 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Depending how KISS or frugal you want to go Amazon has a selection of inverters, even some Renogy models.  I would definitely go pure sine wave.

- bob

 

MODERATOR COMMENT.  ROCK ON!  

Now a general comment on what i and others read elsewhere when we do research to understand and learn about different approaches and non traditional or maybe non conventional approaches and installations.

Do your due diligence and make sure you personally have the knowledge, understanding and skill set to accomplish your goals.  

There are many technological advances as well as many “new to us” companies and approaches out there.

from talking to tech support folks at Remco, Magnum, ESCO, SURGEGGUARD,  Dometic, RecPro and Microair….and then a few months, revisiting or trying to get information, the ability to actually “talk & ask questions” will change, based on volume of calls and, unfortunately, field ISSUE. 

OLD STORY….But true.  When I was helping a member circa 2011 or so with his Intellitec BIRD Diesel2 & Big Boy on an 09 Camelot…I probably talked to a super knowledgeable tech support engineer at Intellitec.  He actually called me back to see if I had resolved the issue.  Fate stepped in.  He had a massive coronary and died instantly.  Intellitec then told me that Tech support for the MPX & EMS & charging BIG BOY was being handled by M&M (presumably for a fee or a contractual agreement….maybe a distributorship as well).  So, i got to know the father and son team.  

So, just like outsourcing tech support offshore, it happens in the RV industry.

I spent maybe an hour, due to insomnia, trying to read the instructions and such on the Vitron equipment.  The number one “issue” was dependency upon a distributor or installation shop for tech support as Vitron did not offer help to customers directly and many “stories” entailed lower prices from Amazon and total lack of warranty as well as tech support.  

In addition, REMCO, ESCO & maybe Magnum said that the warranty MUST be handled by the authorized dealer/vendor that sold it.  

Thats just a comment from myself about the pitfalls of outsourcing or lower price purchases from non factory authorized sellers.

Our (Monacoer’s staff) mission to provide assistance and moderation and also general knowledge.  When something is posted that can endanger someone or their MH or is blatantly against the manufacturers’ instructions, we sometimes edit for safety and clarity to prevent “harm”.  So, under that “premise”…the above is presented.  If I need to replace my Magnum, it will be from a Magnum authorized dealer or distributor as Magnum is changing.  They STILL offer the best Tech Support or are in the Blue Seas league.

NO ISSUES with this topic or such that I can see…

[JDCrow]

3 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

MODERATOR COMMENT.  ROCK ON!  

Now a general comment on what i and others read elsewhere when we do research to understand and learn about different approaches and non traditional or maybe non conventional approaches and installations.

Do your due diligence and make sure you personally have the knowledge, understanding and skill set to accomplish your goals.  

There are many technological advances as well as many “new to us” companies and approaches out there.

from talking to tech support folks at Remco, Magnum, ESCO, SURGEGGUARD,  Dometic, RecPro and Microair….and then a few months, revisiting or trying to get information, the ability to actually “talk & ask questions” will change, based on volume of calls and, unfortunately, field ISSUE. 

OLD STORY….But true.  When I was helping a member circa 2011 or so with his Intellitec BIRD Diesel2 & Big Boy on an 09 Camelot…I probably talked to a super knowledgeable tech support engineer at Intellitec.  He actually called me back to see if I had resolved the issue.  Fate stepped in.  He had a massive coronary and died instantly.  Intellitec then told me that Tech support for the MPX & EMS & charging BIG BOY was being handled by M&M (presumably for a fee or a contractual agreement….maybe a distributorship as well).  So, i got to know the father and son team.  

So, just like outsourcing tech support offshore, it happens in the RV industry.

I spent maybe an hour, due to insomnia, trying to read the instructions and such on the Vitron equipment.  The number one “issue” was dependency upon a distributor or installation shop for tech support as Vitron did not offer help to customers directly and many “stories” entailed lower prices from Amazon and total lack of warranty as well as tech support.  

In addition, REMCO, ESCO & maybe Magnum said that the warranty MUST be handled by the authorized dealer/vendor that sold it.  

Thats just a comment from myself about the pitfalls of outsourcing or lower price purchases from non factory authorized sellers.

Our (Monacoer’s staff) mission to provide assistance and moderation and also general knowledge.  When something is posted that can endanger someone or their MH or is blatantly against the manufacturers’ instructions, we sometimes edit for safety and clarity to prevent “harm”.  So, under that “premise”…the above is presented.  If I need to replace my Magnum, it will be from a Magnum authorized dealer or distributor as Magnum is changing.  They STILL offer the best Tech Support or are in the Blue Seas league.

NO ISSUES with this topic or such that I can see…

For this reason I did splurge and buy my Multiplus 2 from the local dealer. And bought the wires, terminals, heat shrink, etc.. they’ve been there when I needed help programming.

[1nolaguy]

55 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Depending how KISS or frugal you want to go Amazon has a selection of inverters, even some Renogy models.  I would definitely go pure sine wave.

- bob

 

It depends on your use. If it is occasional and you are home or at shore power in the evening it is different that if you are on the road full time. I kept a mobile shop in my van with power tools that was used daily but on shore power each night. The 1500w inverter from Amazon has run flawlessly for 4 years. I charge separately using a digital charger from HF because the charger from my altinator quit working. I will post the details on the inverter later but as I recall at the time the cost was about $150.

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Moderators, it this isn't allowed go ahead and delete!!!

I bought a 2020 Ford 250 Transit mid roof van for my wife with the main purpose is to transport her dogs around town and to dog shows.  I am going to fit it out starting with insulating the walls and ceiling.  I'll eventually put some sort of paneling up to finish out the van but will need to run wiring etc first and am just starting to order everything I need.

On the 12 volt side I am installing a ceiling vent fan, lights, and some 12 volt hours and usb charging station.

I will be installing a small inverter to power fans and misc small loads, larger loads will be taken care of by either generator or shore power hookup.   I do intend to install a roof AC unit, I changed out both my AC in my Windsor in 2021 and kept the old ones which were both in working condition.   In cooler weather a small portable heater will probably be sufficient.   Believe it or not the van has ~30K btu cooling capacity with the factory rear air and front air combined, so while driving should be pretty well set especially after insulating the rig.  

So what I'm looking for is recommendations for "stuff". 

What make/model of inverter? 

Battery charging

Transfer switch

May consider all in one depending on price. 

Initially not going to get fancy with battery.  I'll probably start with just a good 12 volt deep cycle marine, stationed near the van battery and tied together with a Bluesea MLACR to keep battery charged while driving.  May add a second battery down the road based on need. 

FWIW, we did stop a van conversion company to inquire abut adding a roof AC unit, the rough quote was $10K just for that, nothing else>>> YIKES!!

 

 

 

xantrex had a line of 500 to maybe 1500 watts.  Had a 2 gang GFCI in it.  They also made a 15A ATS so if you had 120 VAC, It was a mini inverter (ONLY).  Many folks used it for their Res Refer Installation To keep from robbing capacity from the 2000 Watt inverter.  It was maybe 25% more expensive than the cheapie imports on Amazon.  I did some research and also helped folks install it or gave them the easiest circuit.  It had a few more features like when it cut off and would restart.  Most of the cheapies would drop out around 10.5 VDC.  Then restart at 10.6…and then chatter like Chip & Dale and cause damage.  The XANTREX PS1000 had maybe a DELTA Vdc of 1/2 to 3/4 volt….so, it protected.  Way back when, from a DEALER, a reputable boat/marine distributor it was maybe $350 & $55 for the plug and play ATS.  

I think that would be the way I went.  Many of the cheapies died…but no complaints on the PS1000, other than having to remove the GFCI and pop in a regular receptacle due to the “nuance” tripping of a res refrigerator.

[jacwjames]

So back several years ago on the Yahoo Monacoers group Bill G posted on how he installed a small inverter.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E3V66ZE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In Bill's post he spoke pretty highly of the inverter and it benefits.   It has a built in charger, built in transfer switch, and is 1000W (2000W Peak) inverter.  Price is right.

I actually copied his install and kept in my files.  In 2021 while on a trip I had trouble with my electrical system and had to cut my trip short.  I decided to install one like it to power my refrigerator if I wanted to along with other stuff.  I actually installed it in the bedroom TV box.   Since install I hadn't really given it much of workout but I did go back and look at the spec's and I believe it will work.   Bill used his quit a bit to augment battery charging with generator, and I assume he would not have recommended it if it wasn't dependable. 

 

Any comments/concerns

 

[Rocketman3]

My recommendation would be Victron. It is more expensive… but it works very well.  I put it in my Dynasty- we full-time and boondock most of the time.  It has been rock solid!

But it may be overkill.

One advantage of the Multiplus is the transfer switch and charger is built-in. The 2k unit has a low zero load watts of 9w (can go even lower with a search feature). Once setup it just runs.  One thing I like with my Multiplus 12/3000 is when we overload it (we try not to - but it happens), the 120v power all goes out, then about 20 seconds later it resets and comes back on automatically with no issues.

 

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, Rocketman3 said:

My recommendation would be Victron. It is more expensive… but it works very well.  I put it in my Dynasty- we full-time and boondock most of the time.  It has been rock solid!

But it may be overkill.

One advantage of the Multiplus is the transfer switch and charger is built-in. The 2k unit has a low zero load watts of 9w (can go even lower with a search feature). Once setup it just runs.  One thing I like with my Multiplus 12/3000 is when we overload it (we try not to - but it happens), the 120v power all goes out, then about 20 seconds later it resets and comes back on automatically with no issues.

 

I guess if I were going to equip the van to travel and live in I'd look at installing the extra capacity.  But my wife will be driving to dog shows, no refrigerator, microwave, TV or other creature comforts.  Biggest thing is cooling and ventilation and the storage to be able secure crates and supplies.  

So I am going to install a battery system that I can isolate from the chassis battery and then lights and ventilating fan.  Will install a roof AC for use when parked, doing this since I already have one and won't be much invested.   Hopefully the Chassis AC will be able to keep up while driving (30K BTU based on spec's) and at dog shows they usually have power available and may end up getting a small generator she can power up in a pinch. 

FWIW, she really hasn't asked for any of this but having traveled with her and the dogs I know she will appreciate it. 

 

 

[1nolaguy]

Assuming you have not already bought a roof top A/C you might look at the small one from Recpro, I believe it is a 9500 by Houghton. It had a low amp draw, low profile (both popular in van conversions). Based on what your have stated you might be able to get away with a 1500 watt unit if it can handle peak whats of 3K ( check the requirements of your A/C) If your peak start up watts exceed what your inverter can handle it will not work for you. You also might consider a Softstart for your A/C to reduce that start up demand if needed. Houghton claims this is not needed so maybe note you may need to buy one after the fact. I believe Gretch uses these in there van conversions and they can run off battery power although they may require solar assistance to run for a long time when the engine is not running.

IF I MAY MAKE TWO OTHER SUGGESTIONS; 1) get a battery monitor. I have used the following one from Amazon for 2 years without issue. It provides blue tooth to your phone for easy checking and just connects between the 2 posts of the battery. 2) You might consider a good Lithium battery.  The Li Time (aka Ampiertime) 200 AH battery is reasonably priced and should provide ample power for longer than you own the van (see youtube Will Prowes recent review).

Note: if you plan to charge your Li battery off of the van alternator be sure to install a DC-DC converter that restricts how much amperage goes to this new "house" battery. Not doing so will result in burning up your alternator if you use Li.

[jacwjames]

I already have a used Penguin AC, I replaced both of mine back in 2021, so I'm not looking at buying something else.  

The Van will be used to transport dogs to shows.  No real demand for a large inverter.  Just wanted something for minor stuff. 

[1nolaguy]

4 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I already have a used Penguin AC, I replaced both of mine back in 2021, so I'm not looking at buying something else.  

The Van will be used to transport dogs to shows.  No real demand for a large inverter.  Just wanted something for minor stuff. 

Sorry, you did state that in the OP and I forgot. If you want to run the A/C from the battery/inverter rather than the engine you will likely need a Softstart to make that work.

[miacasa_2000]

aims pure sine wave with built in transfer switch. They are built well and work great, My 1200 was $300 plus another $35 for remote switch. ( only needed because of access where I mounted it.

Roy  2003 Dynasty

[jacwjames]

Just an update. 

I've watched dozens of videos on how people have updated Vans, in most cases it is converted for living in.  Not sure on the rest of the Make/Models but Ford actually makes it pretty easy.  I started to look at how and where I could add a battery, which lead me to a video showing how to tap into the existing electrical system.  Ford actually prewires the rig with various taps right near the battery under the seat, and one of the taps is hidden under a cover on the drivers side lower seat area.  It is already protected by a 60 amp fuse, which for me would work good enough, they do have a couple 150 amp taps but not as easy to get to. 

So my plan is to go ahead and use the tap and install a disconnect between the chassis and the house battery, which I decide to mount right behind the drivers seat.  It won't impact the function of the seat and will make it easy to continue with the wiring.  I am going to install a Bluesea MLACR to separate the house and chassis battery bank but be able to charge both if plugged in.  Going to pretty much mirror my coaches 12 volt system only to a smaller scale.  Why reinvent the wheel. 

I decided to use two cavities on the drivers side to mount the inverter and the other to mount the other components required.  Ill make sure these are ventilated.  Will probably use peg board as s cover so it can pull air in and I left the top of both boxes open and I and install a small fan in the opening to the left once I put the paneling up.  I'll have grill opening the cover that I put over the compartments when I'm done. 

I am going to add a 60 amp circuit breaker and bluesea fuse holder and will tap off of this for lights etc.  I'll also add a fuse between battery and inverter.  Ordered 6 puck type lights and will put them on two circuits with dimmers.  I've ordered a small switch panel with volt display, usb charging, and 12 volt outlet.  Got all this on order slowly it's rolling in

On the 120 volt side I'll add a 30 amp breaker box for two circuits, one for the AC and one for misc outlets and to tie into the inverter.  Since the inverter I linked does have a internal transfer switch and charger it will take care of that side of the power supply.  I'll probably install several outlets on each side of the coach and use a power strip with circuit breather off the inverter supply,

So anyone following along, >>>> if you have any comments or concerns please post, I'm at the stage I can change as needed.  I'd rather fix something now versus after the walls are up. 

For now I'm in the process of insulating the van using the 3M insulate material and also furring out the sides and roof.  Once that's done I'll rough in the wiring in.   I'll also look at reinforcing the roof where I'm going to mount the roof AC.  Also ordered a distribution box since I won't be connecting to any duct work.  

Edited August 23, 2023 by jacwjames

[cbr046]

 How does the R-value of 3M Thinsulate compare to household fiberglass insulation?  I've done a few vans and cargo trailer using fiberglass with great results.  Biggest issue is the wall thickness as some of the fiberglass got pretty dense.  But once the interior was "warmed up" I could run a 750W heater and stay toasty in sub-freezing temps with the heater cycling on / off. 

Another issue is wall curvature.  Yes, it curves vertically but a friend outfitting a Sprinter found his van curved horizontally also.  Made it very difficult with sheeting.

 I us ed a white panel material for the ceiling, similar to whiteboard, with 4 T-5 flourescents.  It was thin, flexible and gave great reflectivity for lighting.  Couldn't find any pics.  I'm sure you'll use LED lighting . . . . strips maybe?

If she will be sleeping on the go you can make a wall mounted twin sized bed with storage room underneath.  Substitute dog cages for motorcycle.  I used a 3 1/2" piece of foam for the "mattress".  Now I use a 38 foot long motorhome. 

- bob

[jacwjames]

Bob

Thanks for the comments.  Not sure on the actual R value.  Seems like most of the people who do van retrofits use the 3M material.  One advantage is that it's pretty sturdy, there is a black material on one side that is very hard to tear. 

I've been able to insulate all the ceiling ribs and pillars by using a snake, pushing it through and then poking it through the insulation and hooking it and pulling the pieces through.  Also using a long threaded rod with nut on it to push pieces into the corners.  The big sections are easy, just cut to size and use 3M spray adhesive to hold in place.  I've also done the rear doors and large sliding door.  Pulled the inside panels off and cut pieces to fit.  There are a lot of reinforcing pieces between the inside and outside panel so it's like a jig saw puzzle.  After I get it fitted I pull areas away and spray the adhesive in and push the material in.   I've been able to insulate almost every little nook and cranny.

I am almost done putting the 3M material in but and short some so I may use styrofoam pieces in the ceiling. 

I have started receiving most of the electrical supplies, my next step will be to run wiring for both the 120 volt circuits and 12 volt circuits.  I found a nice small switch panel that I'll wire all the 12 volt circuits through and fused using the Bluesea fuse block that I bought.  Should have just enough circuits. 

Will also finish furring out the inside, and have to come up with a way to duct the rear AC so that it can be directed to different locations.  I've ordered some 4" quick disconnect type dryer vent fittings that I think will work.  She can attach pieces of ducting into the different dog crates as needed.  

Yes the walls and ceilings are curved which will make fitting any type of paneling a challenge.  I'll probably make templates out of large pieces of cardboard.   I may put tongue and groove in the ceiling, I have some Elm that might look good. 

I threw the idea of making a drop down bed on the back passenger side but the wife wasn't too thrilled with the idea.   The back ~6-7 ft of the van will have a elevated platform so she can store stuff underneath and then the largest dog crate will be on top drivers side.  The crate is 54"L X 46"H, X 36"W and when the ~150lb Anatolian Sheppard is in it is looks small. 

 

Does anyone have the wiring end color codes for a AC communication cable? 

 

[jacwjames]

Here is how I decided to trim out the sides of the van.  I'd watched a number of videos and this like the best option.  To attached the furring strips to the curved portions I simply did kerf cuts about every 3/4" which allowed me to pull the pieces in with self tapping screws.  I then  used a Kerg jig to drill spots for the pocket screws. 

[Bill R]

Jim - Always impressed with your work.  Following to see the final product!

[jacwjames]

Thanks Bill

I have to stay busy and this is giving me both physical activity and mental workout.   Hell, I even have a spreadsheet tracking costs.

Spent several days researching on how to outfit the van, found a couple real good websites and watched multiple video's on various portions of the install.

Yesterday it got to +92F with high humidity, I worked on this until ~3:30PM, wringing wet when I quit.

Then I start thinking about the next day and weeks work.   Had a plan in my head and have been ordering parts and now staging them for install.  

Install of the roof AC will be challenging as I have to make additional support making allowance for the internal ribs and the vent fan that I have installed.  They sell prefabricated parts for all of this but I think I can do better.   I think I've got it figured out and will pick up material today.  Will also rough in the wiring.  

I think I'll have ~$2,750 in outfitting the van not including the AC which I already had.  Hate to think what it have cost to have it done, the quote from a van conversion place just to install AC was $10K.  There will be an elevated platform in the back ~17" off the floor so small crates can be stored underneath and then the large crate on top.   Wife is "skeptical" on how I want to do it, we'll see who is right.

Edited August 26, 2023 by jacwjames

[jacwjames]

So I've been plugging and chugging away.

Finished all the rough in wiring for the 12 and 120 volt systems. Nothing real fancy, going to have some 12 volt lighting and charging ports. Also had to allow for 12 volt circuit to the AC system for the thermostat/control.
The 120 volt system is a 30 amp two circuit breaker box, a 20 amp breaker for the AC and 15 am circuit for the inverter charging and outlets.

Once I got the electrical roughed in I put up the two upper pieces of side paneling. To fasten it to the furring strips I used 1" drywall screws and used a piece of lumber to jam it tight to the curved wall before starting to screw it into place. I made a story stick with screws marked on 1' intervals to make the screw pattern symmetric and neat.

The front drivers side window was a little bit of a challenge, I made the sill piece first and then the back vertical piece. The window and wall were both curved. I made a template to test fit a piece of scrap before making the final piece. I put a piece of card board between window and wood before fastening, hopefully will prevent squeaking/rubbing.

Next step is to make a frame/support for the Ac unit. The roof by it self would not support the AC. Doing research they make kits to add support, I decided to make my own out of conduit strut material, over kill for sure but I'll have to be on the roof while install so don't want it buckling in. This will be slow as I have to test fit each piece and then come up with a fastening strategy.

[jacwjames]

So I tackled the support for the roof AC.  The roof by itself would not support the AC and I doubt you could compress the sealing gasket without support.  When I was looking for a gasket set there are companies the make/sell a "H" frame type support, pretty pricey.  So I decided to use the heavy conduit strut material. 

Decided to use the conduit strut on the oriented sideways.  I had already installed the furring strip just in front of the vent fan and the way the ribs are constructed there were a couple of indentations that would allow the side of the conduit strut the slip into the slot and then used a large square washer on the other end with a bolt. 

I installed both struts and then decided to tie the two together with a 3/4" piece of plywood and there was enough clearance to put a 3/4" piece of styrofoam on top of the plywood.  Added a 3/8" thick strip in the center, and a 1/4" and 1/8" strip equally spaced on either side, this would allow for the curvature of the roof. 

I decided to add a support right at the back edge of the location of the AC gasket, this would allow me to compress it once I get the AC positioned.  Made this out a piece of 1" thick oak and curved it to match the roof contour.  

Overall this worked out pretty good.  It will easily support the AC.   There is just enough room to position the AC in front of the roof vent fan and fit it behind the support rib to get the AC positioned toward the back of the Van vs toward the front. 

Finished adding the furring strips to the rest of the ribs and decided to go ahead install the front portion of the ceiling panel.  The finished ceiling actually worked out pretty well and could used screws into the furring strips to hold it place.  Contemplating using tongue and groove Bead Board on the rear portion of the ceiling but waiting on the rest of the 3M Thinsulate material to insulate. 

Tomorrow I'll start work on the electrical, have most of the supplies. 

[cbr046]

Be sure to measure your new height clearance!

- bob

[jacwjames]

2 hours ago, cbr046 said:

Be sure to measure your new height clearance!

- bob

Yup, but it will be up to my wife to not drive under low clearance obstacles, once I'm done with the retro fit the van will be hers. 

It will be an issue though, she was disappointed that the van won't fit in the RV garage, I only had an 8' high door installed when I had the building built.