Residental alternatives to replace the Norcold 1200

[1nolaguy]

This post is an FYI - We have been shopping for a while for an alternative residential refrigerator to replace our Norcold 1200. While many have gone with the Samsung RF18 or similar. With our particular floor plan (2005 Safari Cheetah 40 DST) the RF18 will not fit in the space available without significant carpentry. We also tried the Haier 14/16 cf  4 door unit (we have one at home and love it) but again the height required significant carpentry.

Because of the floor plan we are limited to no more than 51" in depth with the fridge door open at 90 deg. This further limits us. If we wanted an install that was easy, requiring the least amount of modification, while maintaining capacity close to the 1200 we were very limited in choices. We researched a few small Frigidare, Whirlpool and Magic Chef models but they were either lacking or had many discouraging reviews. We narrowed the search to to Insignia models an 11.6 bottom freezer model  or a 10.4 cf model to freezer. Research showed not a great deal of usable space difference. The bottom freezer version is slightly taller, has a drawer in the freezer as well as an extra deli draw for meats and cheeses. The main reason we chose this one is with my wife's height and the fast that our fridge sits 12" off the floor, it was easier for her to see what is what. Based on the published annual energy usage and some math I calculate that you can run the fridge from an inverter for about 70 amps (@ 12v) in 24 hours, so great to run while you travel or even boon-docking/ lot-docking over night if you have a decent house battery bank.

While our RV model is new, Insignia (a private label for Best Buy) is made by the same company that makes Haier and GE. We have had our home Haier for 3 years without issue. Currently Best Buy (as of this writing) has both of these on sale for under $500 delivery included. They also offer a Greek Squad extended warranty from $100-$135 for 3-5 years years of nationwide coverage. Free delivery is included in the purchase price and for about $25 they will hall away your old unit. I am in no way associated with Best Buy or Haier/GE but found this to be a really good alternative at a very reasonable price.

Anyway, wanted to share this in the hope that it may be helpful to others shopping for refrigerator alternatives.

[Dr4Film]

The 32 inch counter depth Fisher-PayPal would also fit but the price may be unaffordable.

[jacwjames]

I had to do a substantial amount of modifications to be able to fit the Samsung RF18 in the spot the Norcold was.  This was mostly due to having the furnace underneath.  If I had not been able to do the work myself I probably would have considered a smaller upright similar to what you selected. 

[1nolaguy]

36 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

The 32 inch counter depth Fisher-PayPal would also fit but the price may be unaffordable.

Yes, the FP 32" French door bottom freezer will fit and has a bit more capacity at almost 17cf and greater shelf height flexability. For us, at 5-1/2 X the cost , we did not mind giving up the extra space for the savings.

[Scotty Hutto]

Thanks Loel!  Always good to have more alternatives available!  Thanks for sharing. 

[tmw188]

Installed my 3rd RF18 today. It was actually the 2nd one in this mh which I was hired by the current owner to swap out the one I put in back in 2017 when I owned it. I was very fortunate the mounting plate I made for the original install worked out great with this one too. The pictures below was the modifications I had to make for the first install because it too had the furnace underneath, it was in a National Dolphin.  This motorhome had two furnaces but I did not want to give up the main furnace under the refrigerator so I did a lot of planning and I actually removed the furnace cut a new hole in the side of the motorhome and installed the furnace in the bottom drawer location in the kitchen. I then modified the return grill to put in place of the drawer front. I then lowered the floor, modified the duct runs and installed the refrigerator. I took the kitchen drawer I gave up and reused it in the bedroom. I was very happy I didn’t give up my main furnace or loose one of my kitchen drawers. I guess sometimes if there is a will there is a way. Prior to this install I had to put one in my Windsor this past winter while in FL to replace the same model RF18 that someone put in before I bought it. Now that I know the bottom mounting plate will work with the new model I’m going to pull the one in the Windsor and install that plate. Some pics wouldn't rotate rotate for some reason. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by tmw188

[Dr4Film]

Todd,

Great work! What was the reason for replacing the RF18 in your Windsor this past winter in Florida?

Was it a catastrophic failure?

The new owner of my 02 Windsor which has a RF-197 model Samsung I had installed in 2012 recently had to replace a sensor and fan in the fridge top compartment as it wasn't defrosting correctly. So that was 11 years of trouble-free service. Luckily all of that was easily replaced without removing the fridge.

[tmw188]

Hi Richard, well it was frosting up terribly and after weeks of defrosting every three days and doing much testing of sensors related to the defrost function and replacing some including the htr wand itself. The htr wasn’t getting power delivered to it. You can put these into a forced defrost mode and bring the heater on at will and that’s how I would do my testing. I even tried a new board that would tell the htr to come on. I would have power at the board terminals but nothing at the htr. I even tried a new board.  I found this small hole burned thru the interior wall just behind the cover for the Evap coil. And I figured something had burned behind that interior wall maybe a wiring harness or something. I watched so many videos on how to perform different tests that I was exhausted, I don’t give up easy. Oddly enough while working on it one evening in FL I get a phone call from the people that bought my previous motorhome and they said theirs too was not defrosting what a coincidence! It too was about the same age roughly 5-6 yrs old. I did a quick inspection of their refrigerator after getting home and found the same type of whole burned in there’s but on a different side of that compartment. I Really feel that these MSW inverters may be the cause of this issue. I installed a small stand alone PSW inverter dedicated to this new refrigerator this past week. I have some boards and the user touch pad along with a new htr if someone may need one in the future. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by tmw188

[Dr4Film]

Todd,

I wonder if this is inherent with the older RF18 models when they changed from the popular RF-197 to the RF18. The newer RF18 models have no handles on the front. They are no longer needed.

The RF-197 has a typical compressor that cycles on and off whereas the RF18 was built with their new DIC aka digital inverter compressor which is on all the time but will ramp up speed when cooling is needed in the fridge or freezer compartments.

[tmw188]

The two I replaced were the first rf18’s after the 197’s. Did you zoom in and see the burned hole in the pic above. Both units still cooled and the defrost htrs worked in the freezer. Something burned those holes. When talking to a online tech he said it’s happened where they have a failure with a wire you can’t ge to. When I sent him that pic he said yep there you go. 🤷

Edited September 30, 2023 by tmw188
Re word first sentence.

[miacasa_2000]

I too had installed the newer Samsung recently and it would run off the msw only a short while and shut down and run perfect when I fired up the geny. I was worried that it would fry up the electronics so I too installed a dedicated psw for the fridge now we both are happy. I tell this for others who go this route for many of us were told that Samsung works well with msw and it seems they did but maybe in the background they didn't. Mine showed up right away and I assumed the newer electronics with the dc inverter compressor was the issue but I don't really know. I can say the smaller psw for the fridge was not expensive or hard to do and I chose one with a auto transfer switch built in so it works just like the msw.

Roy  2003 Dynasty

[tmw188]

I installed a stand alone TS. What inverter did you use?

Anyone following I had to re word my first sentence in the post above it was messed up.

Edited September 30, 2023 by tmw188

[miacasa_2000]

I installed the Aims PWRIX120012S with the remote

Roy 2003 Dynasty

[Dr4Film]

Assuming that Roy had installed the RF18 and based on what Todd and others have discovered The RF18 should NOT be run with a MSW Inverter. However, the older Samsung RF-197 can be run with a MSW Inverter as it has the old technology compressor with digital controls. The RF18 has the Digital Inverter Compressor along with whatever other controls that they have changed between the RF-197 and the RF18 such that anyone with the RF18, it is strongly suggested that you run the fridge with a PSW Inverter.

Don't know if Samsung had made any modifications to the RF18 after they first came out and after having multiple failures with this "mystery wire". I would not take the chance.

[tmw188]

Well I will say they ran during my travel time on the road just fine using the stock MSW, but both that failed were in the 5+ yr age. The one I put in originally in the photos above were I made all the modifications and then the one in my Windsor that came with the coach. I found that receipt and it was very very close in age. The new ones yes do not have the handles as Richard mentioned. I didn’t like that look at first and it’s more of a challenge securing the doors than the earlier models. It was very hard to get them out and in the Windsor believe me. Both seats had to be removed along with the screen door and hinge for the coach door. EVERY SCREW or clip or anything that took up any space had to come off. Took three of us to manage it in the Windsor.  Side door entry on the Dolphin very easy, me and one woman both times. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by tmw188

[Bill R]

@Dr4Film and @tmw188 Ok, now I am getting concerned about my RF18 reading this post.  The PO installed it in September 2021.   It has the handles in the front.  The refrigerator runs about 95% of the time when on shore power or on the generator.  Only runs off of the Magnum ME2012 MSW when driving down the road without the generator running.  Do you think that makes a difference in whether it will have issues down the road?  Should I just bite the bullet and install a small stand alone PSW?  

[tmw188]

I really don’t know, I only ran mine while traveling too. After the headaches I had in FL and then the woman who bought my Dolphin had the same issue. She only lives 13 mi from me and after a few weeks of being home I went over there to look at hers and discovered the same type of hole behind the Evap cover but on the left side instead. She had a tech look at it while she was in FL too and he replaced the obvious sensors and when he left in a few days it was all iced up again. I just didn’t want it to happen again. I’ve have more time and hrs messing with it while in FL I was done with MSW if that was it? Here’s my setup now I’ll see how well it performs next week while on the rd to Door Co. The 700 still has about 30% of margin left. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by tmw188

[jacwjames]

Not an expert on this but when I started following posts regarding residential refrigerator discussions there were basically two that were favored to install in RV's.  Samsung and Fisher Paykel  seemed to the ones mentioned.  In many cases chose the Samsung because of the cost, much cheaper then the Fisher Paykel, but the Samsung is much taller and the install may not be that straight forward.  The Fisher Paykel's size is an advantage as it essentially the same size as a Norcold 1200 fridge so many people chose it.

No idea the number of Samsung installed in coaches but I think the number of failures is relatively small. 

In the short time I've had mine I am pleased and haven't had any food spoilage from the wide temp fluctuations the Norcold had let alone the potential fire issues. 

For me, I have better things to worry about but will deal with a failure if/when it happens. 

 

[tmw188]

It would very interesting to know if any others had the burn thru hole, but will probably never know unless they noticed it while defrosting. Maybe we can can start a new thread for Any RF18 failures. 

[1nolaguy]

As a side comment - Next weekend I am planning to remove our Norcold 1200 to replace it with a residential unit. It is a 2005 model and may still be of value for parts (no ammonia leaks etc). I am replacing it as we now have the battery capacity to comfortably run a residential model and I am tired of dealing with inadequate cooling in the gulf south where we spend most of our time. If anyone in the group is interested in parts or whole the unit is in the area of Gulfport Ms., free for pick up. Please PM me so we can discuss details if interested.

[Joint Venture]

Being that this thread was titled "Residental alternatives to replace the Norcold 1200" I thought I would add an additional alternative that keeps the Norcold 1200 in use. Like most RV'ers I was not enthused about having a Norcold propane/120V unit in our coach we purchased in May '23 that was 20 years old. Did a lot of research and found a couple of options of replacing it with new residential unit but that came with mods that I really didn't want to use. I located a company in Shipshewana, IN called JC Refrigeration. Contacted them and was told they had both a 120 volt and 12 volt compressor systems that were retrofitted to an existing refrigerator. Since I was traveling through Indiana within a month or two I made plans to have our existing Norcold 1200 modified. After arriving in Shipshewana and meeting with Aaron at JC Refrigeration I decided to use the 12 volt dual compressor package. In a matter of hours they had my refrigerator out and laying on a pad that protected the front of the refrigerator as well as the floor. They removed all the existing propane and 120 volt Norcold parts and installed all new JC Refrigeration compressors, wiring and related parts. Very nice workmanship and then reinstalled the refrigerator. Set for one compressor to maintain 1 degree in the freezer and the second compressor set for 38 degrees in the refrigerator area. This was all completed in about 3-4 hours time on Aug 30th 2023. We couldn't be happier with the results. My ice maker that previously made "soft" ice now works flawlessly, freezer stays in the 0-2 degree range and fridge holds 38-40 with ease. Both areas can be adjusted for various temp ranges if needed. Quiet, efficient, minimal changes, one being all Norcold controls on door are still present but non operational. Controls now exist inside fridge in an easily accessible area. Cost was $1500. From all external appearances it looks totally original. We have boondocked 2 days -3 weeks at a time and our 1200 watts of solar has had no issues keeping up with the 12 volt load.  Just an alternative for RV'ers to think about.

On edit I thought I would mention that conversion comes with a remote control unit that gives present temps of both compressor controlled areas as well as alarm set points and previous low and high readings since last history reset. I used double back tape and installed the remote control unit at the control panel area above coach exit door so it can be reviewed whenever we return to coach.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Joint Venture

[1nolaguy]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:29 PM, tmw188 said:

Installed my 3rd RF18 today. It was actually the 2nd one in this mh which I was hired by the current owner to swap out the one I put in back in 2017 when I owned it. I was very fortunate the mounting plate I made for the original install worked out great with this one too. The pictures below was the modifications I had to make for the first install because it too had the furnace underneath, it was in a National Dolphin.  This motorhome had two furnaces but I did not want to give up the main furnace under the refrigerator so I did a lot of planning and I actually removed the furnace cut a new hole in the side of the motorhome and installed the furnace in the bottom drawer location in the kitchen. I then modified the return grill to put in place of the drawer front. I then lowered the floor, modified the duct runs and installed the refrigerator. I took the kitchen drawer I gave up and reused it in the bedroom. I was very happy I didn’t give up my main furnace or loose one of my kitchen drawers. I guess sometimes if there is a will there is a way. Prior to this install I had to put one in my Windsor this past winter while in FL to replace the same model RF18 that someone put in before I bought it. Now that I know the bottom mounting plate will work with the new model I’m going to pull the one in the Windsor and install that plate. Some pics wouldn't rotate rotate for some reason. 

In image 5 there is a metal plate attached to the floor. Diduou have this fabricated? If so can you share the specs? Is this used to anchor thr fridge so I does not topple over? Am having this issue with my recent install.

[tmw188]

I fabricated it when I was still working. The specs were lost thru the yrs. I recently went to the shop and asked the new foreman to look thru the computer files for it and it was gone. I just recently measured and made another however, so I have one I need to put in place of what I rigged up when in FL last winter doing a change out on my current coach.  I do have a drawing now but I haven’t installed it. It should be fine however. I can send you a drawing of it if you want to PM me. 

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, 1nolaguy said:

In image 5 there is a metal plate attached to the floor. Diduou have this fabricated? If so can you share the specs? Is this used to anchor thr fridge so I does not topple over? Am having this issue with my recent install.

What is the new fridge installed on, floor or a shelf??

I have a furnace underneath so had to get creative, I modified the the bottom portion of my refrigerator opening so I could mount a heavy L bracket in the location right under the fridge leveling feet.  I removed the leveling foot, marked for a hole to align with the foot, took the bracket off and drilled a hole through it and remounted, then threaded the foot back into the fridge.  This took care of the bottom.

For the top I used 1.5" aluminum angle about 10" long.  I used the HD 3M adhesive tape to attach it to the sides and then just drill holes and put screws into the face of the cabinet.  Painted them black and you can't even see them. 

[Georgia Mike]

23 hours ago, Joint Venture said:

decided to use the 12 volt dual compressor package.

I did the same conversion myself almost 2 years ago and so far it has been flawless. We have the stainless steel doors on our Norcold and it matches good with our appliances so I wanted to keep it and didn’t want to do any modifications. I know the door seals can be an issue but ours are good and if they became a problem I would find a way to replace them without replacing the doors. Also I have read problems with the hinges breaking but I’m not sure how that could happen unless you forget to close the doors before you drive down the road. Ours are steel hinges and seem to be very stout. As long as the Norcold box is in good shape I would definitely get rid of the fire hazard innards and turn it into a residential. We have traveled the country this past year in all type of climates and it has been rock steady 36-37 in fridge and 0 to -2 in our freezer I would do it again in a heartbeat.