Replaced cutoff switch now system backfeeds from other source

[eddie4ne]

I replaced the cutoff switch that malfunctioned on our trip to Alaska. The switch wil not shut the power down on any position but the power will turn off if I shut off the house cutoff switch. I then turned the house switch back on with the chassis switch off. Turn on the ignition and nothing for a very short period of time, then the dash comes alive. I disconnected the chassis cutoff switch and the dash still had power. I suspect that the power is back feeding from the house batteries…but how and why!!

I repaced the switch with another Quest brand. The poles on the rear are labeled exactly as the original. The instructions said to connect the feeder and battery the opposite of how the original switch was wired. As per instructions, the wires were crossed when connected.       I originally wired it this way and later wired it as the original so I could mount in the original position.  

Any thoughts?

                               

[myrontruex]

Either your switch is bad or you miswired it.

Remove the switch and use an ohmeter to identify how it works. A picture always helps of course. 

To prove it is the house batteries at fault you should be able to carefully remove the positive source from them or the ground side. The ground side is safer of course. 

[tmw188]

Here is a pic of my 2002 Windsor setup. So was the malfunction you mentioned on your trip what you described in your post or was that what your experiencing since you changed out the switch?  It’s just a switch not a A-B switch so you should  be able to wire it either way. 

Edited October 13 by tmw188

[eddie4ne]

I thought it was malfunctioning also.  When I called the vender he concurred. When I swithced the wires to   The configuration in the pic above it still did not shut the power down. Just trying all possibilities, we cut the power to the house at that also cut the power to the chassis. When I took the switch out of the equation, the power still reached the engine with the switch disconnected.

23 minutes ago, myrontruex said:

Either your switch is bad or you miswired it.

 

[myrontruex]

Feel that large solenoid on the back wall. Then measure the voltage on the purple wire. If the solenoid is warm or hot it is engaged.

If there is voltage on the purple wire the solenoid is engaged and providing engine battery power to the house side. 

From there things can be further diagnosed. I don't want to muddy the waters just yet. 

 

[Ray Davis]

My switches look just like Todds in the picture.  The hook-up should be pretty straightforward with one wire in and one wire out.   Do you have other wires in addition to the 2 large wires?   If your bay looks like the picture then I agree with Myron,  the problem is somewhere else,  it's probably something to do with the solenoid.

A picture of your bay for comparison would be great.

[Tom Cherry]

Back to basics.  There are only (to the best of my recollection) two types of disconnect switches used.  The “single” pole single throw.  That is a high current switch.  It only has TWO Lugs or terminals.  The later Dynasty and up used a DPST.  It had two small terminals.  There was a control circuit that was needed for the boost board….complex, but Monaco wanted it.  It is called by Blue Seas, an ignition” signal.  Thus, when you turn off, both sets of contacts are OPEN. This was NOT used until the 2006 or so rewiring….and the Camelot’s and lower food chain never had the complex board.

The Boost Solenoid is energized via the momentary contact switch. Unless a PO had installed a “BIRD” or other BiDirectional system, the Boost solenoid should be open. 

The picture is great, but. It is difficult to follow the cables.  I’m answering this from my iPad, but just found some “rudimentary” prints.  The basic configuration was used in several MH’s….and is not unique to the Windsor nor the years.  We have prints dating back to 2000.  I will, after I post this, do an edit from the PC and add the prints.  If you blow up the “double print”, which I called Chassis, in the lower left corner is the wiring diagram for the “area”.  It LOOKS, and I suspected this, like Monaco used the terminals on the Boost, as “junction points.  In other words, the switch connects to a stud….then that stud sends out current to the main device.  Sort of a “freaky” way of doing it.  

YES….if the solenoid is defective….as in the contacts are welded or partially welded…you will get a circuit.  Simple test.  Pull the cables OFF one lug…use a bolt and nut and two flat washers.  Sandwich the terminals between the two washers and tighten.  You can pull BOTH, but pulling one side should also work.

If that solves the problem….great.  If not…then, there has to be an issue elsewhere.

NOW….FWIW, I would not replace the boost solenoid.  I would install a Blue Seas ML-ACR in it’s place.  You MIGHT need to do some recabling….I would NOT want to use the ML-ACR’s studs as “junction points.  Therefore, run, if they are long enough….the outgoing cables from each side of the solenoid up to their respective terminals on the switch.  Then use the cables that run from the switches down to the new ML-ACR.  That way, you prevent the issue from reoccurring..

BTW....no offense to the "tech support", but wiring this switch in using either side as the main power should work.  It is THAT simple.

If you wanted to really make this bullet proof...then buy TWO new Blue Seas 6006.  They are really rugged.  No offense to the older switches and the new one, but the preference, based on years of reading and then moderating.  INSTALL BLUE SEAS...  They LAST and LAST and WORK.

Amazon has them....

OK....another PRINT.  This is my HAND DRAWN...so any laughter will be punished and folks doing such will be MODERATED...  LOL.

Seriously.  You CAN rewire the system like the "LIKE THIS" in the bottom of the print.  If you put in a NEW solenoid (assuming this one is defective, then that will be better.  UNFORTUNATELY....the Solenoid is like a JUMPER.  I would DO THIS and also replace the solenoid with the ML-ACR...

Just an idea....the CORRECT (or the preferred) way would have been to have the outgoing power (current) from the banks DIRECTLY connected or terminated at the SWITCHES....no on the Boost Terminals.

Hope this helps...
 

2000 - 2004 - MAYBE Chassis Print.pdf 2000 -2004 High Current wiring diagrams.pdf

2002 Windsor Wiring Mods Boost Issues.pdf

[eddie4ne]

On 10/13/2023 at 8:19 AM, tmw188 said:

So was the malfunction you mentioned on your trip what you described in your post or was that what your experiencing since you changed out the switch?

On our trip after we lost all chassis power and realized it was the cutoff switch, we bolted the two cables attached to the switch together and we were good to go…just not able to cut power with switch. When I put the switch on is when I experienced this issue.

 

22 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

o you have other wires in addition to the 2 large wires?

2 wires only. Full disclosure, I bought the cutoff for a 2 battery system. But that should not effect this problem, just turn to battery 1. Pic below is the melted switch. The rear of the new switch is configured with the third lug being at the top where the circle is on the old switch.

Please excuse our dirt. We have not had time to clean her after 11553 miles with probably 300 to 400 miles of dirt roads whil on our Alaskan trip.

Also please excuse my ignorance! Ed is down for the count with COVID. He was first symptomatic when we were on the coast of Oregon. We held up in Bend Thousnad Trails for a week- they were kind enough to extend our stay to give him time to get over the worst of it. He is now dealing with the long covid symptoms.
I have been trying to do whatever I could to get things started. Yesterday I put the new gear on the step. It is not working either. I am thinking that the connector that hung without a cover over it it packed with dirt…like EVERYTHING else! I also put the rear slide out to reconnect the worm gear but I can’t do that by myself. 
 

I attached some pics that I thought might be relevant. The pic of the dash is taken with the switch off as seen the the next pic

Thanks so much for all of your advice! You all have been a Godsend!

Sharon
Have a new air filter ready to put on as well as oil change supplies.

[Tom Cherry]

3 minutes ago, eddie4ne said:

On our trip after we lost all chassis power and realized it was the cutoff switch, we bolted the two cables attached to the switch together and we were good to go…just not able to cut power with switch. When I put the switch on is when I experienced this issue.

 

2 wires only. Full disclosure, I bought the cutoff for a 2 battery system. But that should not effect this problem, just turn to battery 1. Pic below is the melted switch. The rear of the new switch is configured with the third lug being at the top where the circle is on the old switch.

Please excuse our dirt. We have not had time to clean her after 11553 miles with probably 300 to 400 miles of dirt roads whil on our Alaskan trip.

Also please excuse my ignorance! Ed is down for the count with COVID. He was first symptomatic when we were on the coast of Oregon. We held up in Bend Thousnad Trails for a week- they were kind enough to extend our stay to give him time to get over the worst of it. He is now dealing with the long covid symptoms.
I have been trying to do whatever I could to get things started. Yesterday I put the new gear on the step. It is not working either. I am thinking that the connector that hung without a cover over it it packed with dirt…like EVERYTHING else! I also put the rear slide out to reconnect the worm gear but I can’t do that by myself. 
 

I attached some pics that I thought might be relevant. The pic of the dash is taken with the switch off as seen the the next pic

Thanks so much for all of your advice! You all have been a Godsend!

Sharon
Have a new air filter ready to put on as well as oil change supplies.

OK…NOW…pictures.  Your MH DOES have a BIRD System as in, it will dual charge.  The “box” in the picture is for such.

That makes this whole “thing”, a bit more complicated.  My advice.  STOP NOW….until Ed is back 100%.  The Intellitec unit needs to be properly “trouble shot”.

Please post a closeup picture of the label on the boost…or the brand, model, etc from the boost.

The simple test, once things can be addressed, is testing the system without a connection to the Boost….then if the BIRD control module is functional, then installing a new Boost. BUT that has to be an Intellitec SPECIFICALLY designed for the BIRD…

[tmw188]

So that red switch on the right, is that the one you replaced? That looks like a A-B switch, which side closes the circuit for that 1 or 2? I guess maybe you could of been using the both position to turn it on? Is that the switch you replaced or the one in question? That should be the Chassis switch. 

[cbr046]

22 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

 . . .  any laughter will be punished and folks doing such will be MODERATED...  LOL

It's good to be the King . . . . 😉

On my Endeavor there's a solenoid in the FRB that connects chassis and coach battery.  Check that?

- bob

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, tmw188 said:

So that red switch on the right, is that the one you replaced? That looks like a A-B switch, which side closes the circuit for that 1 or 2? I guess maybe you could of been using the both position to turn it on? Is that the switch you replaced or the one in question? That should be the Chassis switch. 

Yes, it is an A-B or A&B switch.  BUT, there is only ONE source (input) and output....so, in effect it is a INPUT to Battery 1 (presumably) and there is NO Battery 2.  I have an auxillary switch like that, Blue Seas, that I added as there is (now FOUND I THINK) voltage drop in my HOUSE bank to my Front Hydraulic Slide motor.  I installed the selector switch so I can SWITCH to Chassis.  That improves the speed and also limits the Current Draw.  Will replace a Blue Seas, yes they fail...., that has about a half Volt drop when there is a 100 amp load.  THAT, I hope resolves it...but if push ever comes to SHOVE...I can throw BOTH banks on the hydraulic.

1 hour ago, cbr046 said:

It's good to be the King . . . . 😉

On my Endeavor there's a solenoid in the FRB that connects chassis and coach battery.  Check that?

- bob

Way down the food chain from the King and the Princes.....some classify as the JESTER....with some knowledge.  The Endeavors were still (and maybe now) using the OLDER wiring layouts.  In 2008, memory and circa, the Camelots and Scepters were converted from having the Boost and Salesman's Solenoids up front (really stupid....if you think about where the batteries are) to where the Dynasty and up have theirs....in the REAR. 

So, where ever the Boost IS.....and wherever the Switches are....Monaco's call.  BUT, in this case, the Boost is in plain site.  AND there is (added I THINK...maybe not) a BIRD (Intellitec) Controller.  Focus on trouble shooting it....if FUNCTIONAL...then that MAY (WILL?) impact which Soleonoid to use as the Replacement BOOST....

Need more info and pictures and then do some simple VOM testing.  Not NASA or something that the Kings and Princes only know.  LOL....

You are allowed to leave the throne room....bowing and crawling backwards....of course.  See the British Royalty Guidelines.  LOL...