Center AC tripped the breaker

[747guy]

Is there a method to prove what caused the trip, as I suspect either blower motor or compressor is causing the problem. I just replaced all 3 of the fairings on my units as they were cracked and in poor condition.

I  understand that I can order a new replacement Penguin11 from Dometic and also a conversion board in order to operate with my CC thermostat 5 button model. However, before doing so, I would like to keep the exterior profiles of the fairings the same. So my thinking is, if it is a blower motor replacement I would like to replace.

So any input in proving motor or compressor before I make the next decision. In reading all of Tom's postings on the eventuality of changing to the CC2 system, I am trying to delay to the point of doing all 3 at the same time.

The Coach has never been fulltimed or even spent a lot of time in climates requiring daily AC. But on arriving in Indio this year a bit early, I felt 104 degrees and this is when #2 quit.

So many decisions to make going forward, but I am hoping it is a blower motor at this point. I am 82 and climbing up on the roof is a bigger chore than when i was 72.

[96 EVO]

Have you tried it just in 'FAN' mode?

[vito.a]

On most of the three A/C equipped coaches, Monaco grouped the center A/C and the washer on the same circuit breaker.  So, you might relook at the circumstances that caused the breaker to trip.  

If that's not it, then it's usually the compressor when it's in startup and that's usually caused by low refrigerant.  

As far as replacing an A/C, I assume you have the front A/C on a 5 button thermostat by itself and the middle and rear A/C on a separate thermostat.  

IF you need to replace only one A/C, then I would put the new unit on the front with a new CCC2 thermostat.  If it's the front one that fails then it's easy, but if the middle or rear A/C fails, then you'd have to swap positions.  It really only takes about 30 min to swap A/C positions.  

Of course, if you have two units fail, then install them on the middle and rear positions with a new CCC2 thermostat.  

Hope this helps.  

[747guy]

Thanks Vito,

I have ALL 3 untis on the 5 button CC thermostat. I just reset the 20 amp breaker and turned the other 2 zones OFF and then selected FAN ONLY both HIGH and LOW and nothing happened. The fan did not come on nor did the breaker trip? What do you think?

[96 EVO]

Could be the motor seized up. May need to try giving it a spin.

[747guy]

OK thanks EVO, I now have tried it in COOL mode and NOTHING is happening......no blower no compressor and breaker has not tripped?

I did not climb up to the roof but will get a neighbour to help me with that later today

[96 EVO]

Yeah, if the fan won't run, nothing will.

Check to see if the fan motor spins freely, and if it does, I'd be testing the capacitor(s).

One other thing.... If you have the option of plugging into 30A shore power, you could watch on the EMS panel what's happening for amp draw while you attempt to start the unit.

Edited October 30, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Ivan K]

I would check if there even is power at the breaker, unlikely both motors would quit. The motor should make a humming sound if it couldn't start.

[jacwjames]

In 2015 I started having trouble with the breaker tripping for my front AC.  I was plugged into a 30 amp outlet so I could watch my EMS display and saw that it was drawing really high amps at startup.

Got home from the trip and crawled up on the roof to check the AC unit.  The motor was almost seized up, I could barely rotate it by hand.  So I found a replacement motor and swapped out the motors.  That solved the problem.  

In 2021 my rear AC started to act up, I was going to replace the motor but could not find one.  So I bit the bullet and replaced both AC. 

[747guy]

8 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, if the fan won't run, nothing will.

Check to see if the fan motor spins freely, and if it does, I'd be testing the capacitor(s).

One other thing.... If you have the option of plugging into 30A shore power, you could watch on the EMS panel what's happening for amp draw while you attempt to start the unit.

 

A good suggestion was made to plug into the 30 amp plug at my site which I will do and watch the EMS for high amp draw. I will do this. I also have separate 20 amp breakers for each AC unit and 3 sensors and one CC 5 button thermostat. A suggestion that it could be a start capacitor if the motor turns freely. More checking to do. Will report and thanks for the help.

[Martinvz]

I am not sure if your coach has an Intellitec load shedding board next to the breaker panel (it is behind the cover). These boards do go. 
You can check by swapping the connection to the breakers for the front and mid/rear a/c (assuming you are comfortable with electrical work and also making sure there is no shore or inverted power. Then see if the front a/c works with the shore power restored. Then do the same for the mid/rear. 
If the issue is now on the front a/c you may want to check the output to the breaker(s). It the mid/rear still has the issue then the a/c may have the problem. 
Remember to reposition the cables to the breakers and take pictures so you know what was the cabling before starting. 

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, 747guy said:

Is there a method to prove what caused the trip, as I suspect either blower motor or compressor is causing the problem. I just replaced all 3 of the fairings on my units as they were cracked and in poor condition.

I  understand that I can order a new replacement Penguin11 from Dometic and also a conversion board in order to operate with my CC thermostat 5 button model. However, before doing so, I would like to keep the exterior profiles of the fairings the same. So my thinking is, if it is a blower motor replacement I would like to replace.

So any input in proving motor or compressor before I make the next decision. In reading all of Tom's postings on the eventuality of changing to the CC2 system, I am trying to delay to the point of doing all 3 at the same time.

The Coach has never been fulltimed or even spent a lot of time in climates requiring daily AC. But on arriving in Indio this year a bit early, I felt 104 degrees and this is when #2 quit.

So many decisions to make going forward, but I am hoping it is a blower motor at this point. I am 82 and climbing up on the roof is a bigger chore than when i was 72.

OK.... @747guy

Eric,

I am in a quandary.  The owner's manual and the Sales Brochure for 2006 say.  NO 43 Ft units.  I had pulled the 2006 prints and sort of "WONDERED" about a 43 Footer in the Camelot.  The Camelots did NOT come with a 43. but the DID have a 42 PDQ in 2007.  I have spent about 20 minutes just chasing down this to be sure before I posted.

The reason.....we NEED to know how the MH is controlled.  FINALLY, in the 2007 Owners manual.... ONE BLAND PARAGRAPH.  Pardon the sarcasm....also, the OFFICAIL (copied from the OWNER's Manual) PRINTS say....NOPE....there ain't NO THREE AC's...  YES....the prints often are wrong or incomplete.

You PROBABLY have a SHOW coach....and it was a FIRST run 2007, but got "Titled" as a 2006.  THAT happens....not your fault...but you need to know this as the prints may be totally worthless and since there is NO CORRECT 2006/7 Print for the AC...that frustrates us...or me...as I try to use the prints and not some generic solution.

I DO suggest that you relabel you signature.  2007 42 PDQ (sold as a 2006) so folks will be able to help you.  

OK....HAVING VENTED.  Your system is just like the 2008.  SO....ONLY ONE THERMOSTAT.  NOW, never trust Monaco.  If you have TWO thermostats, then we need to know WHERE they are located and which AC's they control.  REALLY IMPORTANT.

BUT, here goes...  Here is the 2008/09 HVAC System print.  It is simple for the AC, which IS your issue.  There is ONE thermostat....PRESUMABLY in the hallway.  Zone 1 if the Front. Zone 2 is the center (YOUR ISSUE) and Zone 3 in the Bedroom.  LOOK at the print... This is the GENERIC one and it does NOT have all the Aquahot (assuming you have it) interfaces.....which just muddles up things and has needless lines and confuses folks.

We really NEED to see two pictures.  FIRST of the main panels to see how the Breakers are labeled.  SECOND of the EMS....but that will be tough as we need to see what the SHED lights are labeled as.  MOST of the time, it was only 4 sheds.  They were the FRONT AC (last) and then the REAR AC (second ( think) then the Water Heater and then the Washer Dryer.

There is NO print or layout that I can find for the 07 or 08 that shows me the breaker panel....so I had to try 2009.  YES, Monaco was a bit slack.  There are THREE AC breakers in 2009.  ONE for Each AC.

SO....the first step.  Make SURE that the center AC's Breaker is OK.  If it looks a little "out of place" as in hanging down....then if it has vibrated loose and there is POOR contacts....then that COULD be the issue.  Do NOT know your electrical skills.  If you turn OFF shore and Trip (turn off the Generator breaker on the Genny), then it is SAFE to remove the screws and look inside.  The breakers are sort of snapped in.  The wired side snaps in and the other end just goes in, under like a "latch" and then slides up and then you PUSH the bottom (wire END) and they snap in.  Folks have had "Sagging Breakers" and just snapped them back in place.

Next up.  SWAP the wiring.  This is simple.  Use a piece of masking tape.  Label the CENTER breaker's black wire as C for Center.  Then which ever AC breaker is close....label that wire.  Either F or R.  Then you swap the wires.  That puts a DIFFERENT breaker in the circuit.  Then, if the CENTER AC trips the "other"  breaker...it is in the AC and NOT the Breaker.  Then, you just swap the black leads back.  BTW.  If you do all this, take time to TIGHTEN every screw in the panel.  A MUST DO...and most don't.

OK...past that.  NOW if it IS in the AC, then you are probably drawing too high current.  We do NOT know your usage.  MOST folks have issues with the FRONT as it RUNS the most....  Some will try a SOFT START capacitor....to see if that corrects.  BUT, that ain't cheap.  $400 or so.  SOME will replace the Capacitor.  They are cheap...Maybe $50

OK....past that.  YES, you CAN install a NEW Penguin II.  You will need the CONVERSION kit....that has been posted here several times....search for it.  KEEP the NEW BOARD or Control Module. Then, the NEW Penguin will work, generally speaking...with the OLD 5 button Thermostat. 

NOW....PERSONAL OPINION.  Past that....it is FALSE economy...but some folks are on a tight budget....so I am NOT BEING CRITICAL. to proceed with the NEXT replacement and then put in the Conversion.  From an economics standpoint...when the next one dies....BITE THE BULLET.  Then replace BOTHT and then have the ORIGINAL Control Module installed...and put on a CCC2 Dometic.  OR, if you prefer....another brand.  BUT, the risk is there in that IF the tech does NOT reinstall the original BOARD correctly and the system does NOT work...then Dometic will be of little assistance as they will POINT the finger at the OTHER thermostat.  And the folks that make the OTHER brand will say..."You MUST have a FUNCTIONAL control system....for our thermostat to work.  Verify that and ours will be perfect.

That's my take.  We DO have folks that are very electrically savvy and might be able to help diagnose...but I stick to the Controls and how the system works....

Hope this helps....

OK...  First...  ALL THE BREAKERS MUST BE ON.  The Center AC 

Air conditioning wiring.pdf 12 V Energy Management.pdf

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

OK.... @747guy

Eric,

I am in a quandary.  The owner's manual and the Sales Brochure for 2006 say.  NO 43 Ft units.  I had pulled the 2006 prints and sort of "WONDERED" about a 43 Footer in the Camelot.  The Camelots did NOT come with a 43. but the DID have a 42 PDQ in 2007.  I have spent about 20 minutes just chasing down this to be sure before I posted.

 

I DO suggest that you relabel you signature.  2007 42 PDQ (sold as a 2006) so folks will be able to help you.  

 

 

Well I better change my signature as well then, as it too is called a 42' PDQ, but it's really only 42'11"

Then you've got the old miserable ferry toll booth employee's that pull out the stick with the wheel, that measure me at 46'6" with my motorcycle lift folded up !!

Edited October 31, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Rob Monda]

My rear unit was tripping a breaker. After removing the fearing I found that the motor would run after a manual spin. Turned out being a start capacitor which is a pretty easy change. Make sure you are powered down before you start with the power cap because it will shock you. My rear unit would start and run at partial power and would then trip the breaker Hope this helps

[Tom Cherry]

One early, for me, thought.  IF you have a BAD capacitor, you can, easily, swap the capacitor with another unit.  BUT in your "Preproduction 2007 42 PDQ - 2006 Title Camelot" assuming Ben is OK with the signature...LOL.... it probably has 15KW's in the front and rear and a 13.5KW in the center.  There was several topics about "Capacitors" and sizes, OEM vs Aftermarket, etc. Use the Search Box  CAPACITOR and select Topics from the Everywhere drop down menu.

I think that there are many low cost aftermarket 13.5 KW capacitors that folks said work on Amazon.  I don't think that swapping a 15KW and using it in a 13.5KW would be an issue...but if you look at the posters that are our experts, you can PM them and they will probably help you.

My 30K view on the situation...after some time to ponder.  ODDS are, you are getting a spike.  NOW, how much?  The only way is to measure with a clamp on ammeter.  Many of us have them as we bought combo VOM's.  Most of those will also measure Capacitance.  SO, if you do NOT have a VOM or want to upgrade and have more troubleshooting tools, then one of them might not be a bad investment.  I never "Leave home without it".  The spike can be one of three causes. 

BAD or High Resistance connection.  Breaker bad or not snapped in or loose wire.  NOW....it gets tricky here.  IS the center AC tied or connected to the EMS board?  IF SO, then a bad relay or loose wire could also be the issue.  You can look at where the black wire goes on the center AC breaker.  If it goes to the EMS board...then that relay could be an issue...and is a horse of a whole different breed and color.

Bad Capacitor....swap or test or whatever

Bad AC...as in the motor is toast....or there is too much current from perhaps a bad blower motor as folks have suggested. 

Good Luck.  Keep us posted.

[747guy]

Well first of all my humble apologies for calling my Camelot a 43 ft when indeed it is a 42' 11". Old habit about bragging how big your boat is I guess. 🙂

The next thing to deal with is the year. My bill of sale says 2006 Camelot VIN 1RF43561862040273 It is a bath and a half and I was suspicious this may have been a one of a kind show coach for 2007 built in 2006 because of other irregularities I kept finding in the Owners Manuals.

Yes I do have 3 AC units and 3 sensors and 1 5button CC Thermostat

The Centre AC unit is NOT wired to the EMS system as the front and rear unit are indeed using the Intellitec system.

The breaker is double pole 20 amp shared with the water heater. 

I have been on the roof and the blower spins freely.

Upon checking the output of the breaker there was no voltage even though the breaker reset after a couple of pushes, but no click.

The water heater side of the breaker measures 120V.

So, I have ordered a new breaker from Amazon for 23bucks.

Tom suggested I remove the black wire lead from the breaker that apparently has failed and switch it to another breaker for the front AC. I have not done this yet to prove that the #2 unit is operating properly, but then thought why not just use the water heater side of the same breaker, of course turning the breaker and the switch off for the water heater.

[96 EVO]

12 minutes ago, 747guy said:

 

Tom suggested I remove the black wire lead from the breaker that apparently has failed and switch it to another breaker for the front AC. I have not done this yet to prove that the #2 unit is operating properly, but then thought why not just use the water heater side of the same breaker, of course turning the breaker and the switch off for the water heater.

Don't see why that shouldn't work for testing purpose!

[747guy]

Well it appears the problem is solved thanks to all the help and I now know that my Coach is not a 43 and it was sold as a 2006 but is a 2007 model. 🙂 

Switched wires on the double pole breaker and voila my Centre unit fired right up. 

I have learned a ton from all of you that posted. Thank you.

[96 EVO]

Now, if you still have no power to that side of the double breaker after replacement, you may need to dig a little deeper!

[Bobkat11208]

There is a fairly detailed article in the latest FMCA magazine on A/C maintenance and repair as well as the procedure to safely discharge both the motor start and run capacitors.

[747guy]

Thanks Bobkat