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EMS display, all indicating lamps out


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Just checked my display and nothing showing:

- rig plugged into 30amp service

- F9 fuse from  Main Distribution Panel  checked OK

- RC7 unit (beside EMS unit) running fine, batteries on charge, indicating lamps working

- disconnected power, inverter switched on correctly (therefore 30amp power was working correct but not indicating same)

- started generator, all working, batteries back to charging but no lamps on EMS

Where do I go from here?

2004 Windsor

Help appreciated!

Jim B2

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Just to be clear. It is NOT this panel. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004L04Z6U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

This is a service manual that might help.

intellitec ems service manual.pdf

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1 hour ago, ido70 said:

Well that was quick and painless, thanks for the suggestions. Power to these lamps (on my rig anyway) comes from the front AC breaker.

NOPE.  There is a 12 VDC powered Printed Circuit Board UNDER the cover to the MAIN 50 A Panel.  There is a 3A fuse, sort of hidden, behind some of the wiring harnesses.  This PCB has NOT AC Power.  There ARE 4 relays on it that DO switch 120 VAC....both AC's and the water heater and the washer/dryer

The MAIN reason that you have NO LIGHTS....other than the Display, which is almost totally DUMB....as in it only can do ONE function is that the EMS board is NOT getting power.  There is a Fuse on the House 12 VDC fuse panel....but Monaco did a CRAPPY job, sometimes NOT even labeling the fuse.  It was labeled as SATELLITE on my panel.  SO, there are TWO fuses in the circuit.  The Fuse on the House Distribution Panel and then a smaller one (3 A) on the circuit board.

NOW, these boards also have a BAD habit of getting their BRAINS Scrambled.  The fix for that.  DISCONNECT POWER and also, I FOUND OUT, the harnesses.  TURN OFF ALL THE SHORE power and also Trip the Circuit Breaker on the Generator.  NOW the main panel is safe.  Remove the SCREWS.  You will find the PCB on the lower right side of the main panel.  LOCATE the 3 AMP fuse.  With a VOM and a "needle tipped" probe....check for voltage.  Set on 12 VDC.  Then ground out....the GROUND Bar where all the bare wires on the AC SIDE is also a 12 VDC Chassis ground.  SO, one probe on the GROUND.  Then the other probe on TOP of the fuse (the little indents).  You SHOULD have 12 VDC on BOTH SIDES of the fuse.  NO POWER on EITHER ONE.  Then there is a BAD fuse in the 12 VDC House distribution panel.  Go CHECK THEM.  You have GOT to have 12 VDC on the PCB.  If one side has 12 VDC and the other does NOT....bad 3 amp fuse.  NOW....you need to reset.

OK....IF YOU DO have 12 VDC, then RESET has to be done.  You have to have POWER on both legs of the PCB to work or to do the RESET.  Pull the 3A fuse.  I also pull the 3 or 4 wiring harnesses.  There are sometimes some stored electrical charge that mess it up.  I usually leave it OFF for maybe 5 minutes.

NOW, hook back up the harnesses.  THEN replace the fuse.  Put, if you are confident the cover back on.  THEN either start the Genny (remember to TURN ON the Breaker) or apply Shore power.  Once the ATS cycles and sends power to the main panel....all should be FINE.  

Now, there is ONLY one thing that the remote can do.  It can TELL the EMS whether you have a 30 Amp service or a 20 Amp service.  You just TOGGLE back and forth.  If you really want to make sure....leave OFF the cover.  Then unscrew the remote from the wall.  Plug and UNPLUG and SEAT the connectors.  Then, I would pull the 3 Amp....to let it calm down....then replace the 3 Amp fuse.  You can TURN OFF the main breaker....just be aware that there are LIVE 120 VAC wired in there and do NOT mess with them.

If that doesn''t solve it.  Then you either have a BAD PCB...and that is happening MORE frequently OR the remote meter (see the picture) is bad.  Really, based on what I know.....NO WAY (Others may) to determine which.  

BTW....there have been some "FUNKY" switching or issues if one of the breakers are OFF.  SO, turn them ALL ON.  But, typically, you WILL have lights and the remote might look strange....BUT NOT TOALLY DEAD.  SO...  there are no guarantees, except that if you have NO power (12 VDC) it ain't gonna work.  Have power....and still no joy.  Bad EMS PCB or a bum Remote...

That's it.  

41l7haGKD2L._AC_SL1000_.jpg

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Another Windsor reached out to me a couple years ago about another problem that I tried to advise him on.  One thing lead to another and he had several issues that we worked though, one of them being the EMS display not working.  I told him to make sure all his breakers were on so he walked back and turned on the ones that were off and the EMS came to life. 

Even now once in a while I'll forget and leave one off and my heart skips a beat until I remember to check the breakers.  It happens to all of us😁

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A problem with my 02 Diplomat shows up infrequently is there is a loss of connection from the inverter and readout board inside the coach.  I use electric contact cleaner on the telephone type connections on the inverter and spray with electric contact cleaner.  Also one time I turned off the breaker for the clothes washer/dryer (which I don't have) caused a problem with the ems readout, once turned back on everything returned to normal.  Ken Parsons

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Jim, Tom mentioned that one breaker can or could cause issues. Which breaker did you switch on? I believe the washer/dryer breaker, when off can confuse things a bit. This has been discovered a couple of times. 

Per Tom's response.

"""BTW....there have been some "FUNKY" switching or issues if one of the breakers are OFF.  SO, turn them ALL ON.  But, typically, you WILL have lights and the remote might look strange....BUT NOT TOALLY DEAD.  SO...  there are no guarantees, except that if you have NO power (12 VDC) it ain't gonna work""""

If you know which one, can you duplicate the problem by turning it off again? If not, then you may have just allowed the board to reset itself. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Myron, he had the Front AC circuit breaker turned off stated in a previous post.

Be gentle Richard, the onboard refueling process has not completed. Caffeine or lack of, is causing some fog. After reading Tom's long eloquent explanation I was just dizzy. He is spot on as usual. Anyone else I can blame?

However, I would really like to have him turn the breaker off to see if he can repeat the symptoms. It really does not add up. If that does not duplicate it, I would like him to turn the washer/dryer breaker off.

I hate "who done its", and then I find out it was the butler. Knowing the cause is like taking that first gulp of coffee in the morning. Then I try to plant those results into my feeble mind for further adventures. 

I am sure Tom is the same. Inquiring minds want to know. 

  • Haha 1
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Yes people, in my case, turning off the breaker to front AC will kill lamps on display board. It occurs every time I do it. I added this bit of info to my schematic for the breaker panel for future owner. I am seriously considering hanging up our “wandering bug” after this winter’s stay in Texas (from Ontario).

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1 hour ago, ido70 said:

Yes people, in my case, turning off the breaker to front AC will kill lamps on display board. It occurs every time I do it. I added this bit of info to my schematic for the breaker panel for future owner. I am seriously considering hanging up our “wandering bug” after this winter’s stay in Texas (from Ontario).

JUST TO CONFIRM.   We have a LOT of Gremlin topics….some with “lamps”.  I assume you mean the “lamps” & “display board’ is the Intellitec EMS remote display and NOT the front dash “display lights”.  FWIW, the remote is all LED and I don’t think you can replace a “lamp”  

Thanks….

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4 hours ago, jacwjames said:

JimB2

First time I've heard of one of the AC's providing the control power to the EMS display but these things are all snowflakes.  

Glad you got it figured out

It now sounds like they used at least two different places to take the power from. The washer dryer and the front ac. Imagine if they put the wire on the load shedding side of the ems board. That would be some fun to diagnose.

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My buddy’s 2007 Camelot had the washer/dryer breaker off, so the EMS board had only one 110v input. One of the relays started clicking like a turn signal.  Talked to tech support and was informed that two separate 110v inputs must be present for the board and EMS to work.  That was a good lesson.

Now I will have to try what Tom said about the SATELLITE fuse powering the EMS , as our electrical systems are 99% the same. That would be good to know.

Below is the picture of the 5a fuse Tom was talking about. This board is on the right side of the circuit breakers, behind the brown panel. You can barely see one of the C/B’s at the left edge of the picture.

On some coaches the panel is mounted vertically instead of horizontally. On those panels the EMS board would be toward the bottom.

IMG_3271.jpeg

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