Possible 2001 Monaco Signature Purchase? Comments and Discussion

[rpasetto]

Found an 01 Signature; I'm considering buying. 
It has very low miles, <10k.   I was told it had been sitting in a pole-barn out in AZ desert area for many years. then put back in use for last year or two. (Old owner had passed.)   The new owner said he put on new tires, hoses, belts, changed fluids, serviced genset and aquahot.  He has been using it for the past 2 years and continued to service on schedule.  (I verified the recent service done with the mechanic that did the work.)

Cosmetically, nice, except for some peeling clear coat.  The pictures sent to me look good at sides, except for sun exposure damage at front & rear cap, 3M on front is peeling as I'd expect.   Looks like it had been pretty well covered on sides in polebarn but not so much for front& rear.

Thinking I should get oil and trans oil samples; not sure who does that with quick turnaround. 

I will appreciate advice on what to I look for, questions to ask.

[jacwjames]

I use JG Lubrication, I sent in a Tranny oil sample in on a Monday and had the sample results back by Friday.  If you expedite shipping you could get a quicker turn around.  But you have to get the sample kit from them, which takes ~3 days, I just ordered 3 more kits to keep on the shelf.  ~$35 per sample

You may check a local service shop and see if they can turn a sample around quicker and/or see who they use for a quick turn around.

[Dr4Film]

Do you have copies of the RV Coach PDI's that have been distributed on this forum?

They include everything you should check if you want to know what works, what doesn't and the condition of each item listed on the PDI.

[CAT Stephen]

2 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I use JG Lubrication, I sent in a Tranny oil sample in on a Monday and had the sample results back by Friday.  If you expedite shipping you could get a quicker turn around.  But you have to get the sample kit from them, which takes ~3 days, I just ordered 3 more kits to keep on the shelf.  ~$35 per sample

You may check a local service shop and see if they can turn a sample around quicker and/or see who they use for a quick turn around.

If you have a Caterpillar dealer near your area, they also have fluid testing services.  I would also advise you to also do an oil analysis on the generator.

Trust, but verify (everything) as non-use of diesel engines is more harmful than extensive use.  Physically inspect the date codes on the tires.  Run your hands across the "new: hoses to verify that they are really new.  Have the engine inspected by a brand specific mechanic.  Keep in mind that 22 year old rubber anywhere is brittle and ready to fail, so the generator hoses and belts may be at end of life.  Function test every system to uncover issues (dash ac, refrigerator on both propane and electric, generator with all A/C units, slideouts, ect.).

[Guest Ray Davis]

13 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I use JG Lubrication, I sent in a Tranny oil sample in on a Monday and had the sample results back by Friday.  If you expedite shipping you could get a quicker turn around.  But you have to get the sample kit from them, which takes ~3 days, I just ordered 3 more kits to keep on the shelf.  ~$35 per sample

You may check a local service shop and see if they can turn a sample around quicker and/or see who they use for a quick turn around.

I'm not plugging for Speedco but they do oil testing too and probably while you wait.   Once when I was there I watched the girl pour a sample into a machine and shortly a report came out.  No doubt their testing is not up to par with JG testing but when time is of essence I think you might be able to walk in with a sample.

[jacwjames]

X2 on other types of samples. 

Consider Engine & generator oil, transmission oil, coolant sampling.  Cheap insurance. 

But it is only a snap shot in time, in reality you need continued sampling to look for trends in metal wear.  But the oil sample can show dirt (silica) contamination meaning the air intake system has a problem.  Can also show high % of fuel in oil meaning combustion and or injector problems. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by jacwjames

[Robert92867]

Above posters have made good points.  I just want to add that I have stored my RV in a covered storage in Needles, CA. for 22 years. The dry desert air prevents humidity and corrosion problems and prolongs the life of the vehicle.

[JohnC3]

Don't forget the suspension airbags. Replacements may require some looking to find. 

John

[Tom Cherry]

Having gone through a similar situation, with my mother's "only driven to church and post office" Buick Regal, and passing it down to both kids and the continuing saga of "low, barely driven" engine and transmission....my (AND MINE ALONE...but also the Advice of a super Tech Automotive - my Uncle & recently having three "Gramma's Cars" inspected by my trusted Caddy dealership)....  I'D PASS and not waste the money on testing.

The aforementioned deterioration of the rubber and seals and internal gasketed or sealed components (intake gasket, exhaust gasket, oil pan gasket, OTHER gaskets on the engine...etc), unless you intend to do the work yourself will be NOT CHEAP.  In addition, the reliability would be a concern for me.  

THE OTHER THING...  as with the air bags...  Parts for used cars that are around 10 years old are sometimes scarce...even at the OEM Dealership.  GM and presumably Ford and Chrysler are no longer available.  NOW, a solid seller like an F-150 or a GM Pickup...you can buy stuff dating back to the 60's.  

BUT, if you believe, after a careful analysis, that the Signature is a good value, then, REALLY have the Engine gone over and be prepared to spend a few hundred for a CERTIFIED CAT dealer.  

Good Luck....let us know how it turns out.

[zmotorsports]

1 hour ago, JohnC3 said:

Don't forget the suspension airbags. Replacements may require some looking to find. 

John

 

Actually, air springs for these chassis are quite common and easy to find so I wouldn't be too worried there.  

 

[rpasetto]

Thank y' all for the advice...

@Jim J, Ray D, Steven K:  Yes, I'm having oil sample kits shipped to their mechanic: Engine oil, Trans Fluid and Generator Oil.

@Dr4Film, I have one list and reviewing/editing it now, I will look at the others.

@Steven K,  Yes, I expect to "get my hands dirty" inspecting hoses, belts, filters etc. to be sure all was changed as I was told .... bringing some XL 10mil rubber gloves.

@JohnC3, @Tom C, Yes I know they did not replace airbags,  Looked up the Contitech AS8897 which I replaced quite a few on the Dynasty I used to have, also did them on the Signature I had.   

Looking forward ... but if the deal doesn't work out, I will continue.

.. Rick P

 

26 minutes ago, zmotorsports said:

 

Actually, air springs for these chassis are quite common and easy to find so I wouldn't be too worried there.  

 

Mike, Yep, I was just researching that.  I see the Conti 8897 at a few places from the hundreds to twice that.  Also recall buying 3/4" to 1/4" adapters at Fastenal... If I recall they're needed at rear, not at front if there are 3/4 hoses from Ping tanks.  Also recall  getting a teflon paste sealant for the adapters/fittings.   

[Scotty Hutto]

Rick,

Since I got my Diplomat I’ve used Blackstone Labs and been pleased with them.  If I recall correctly they have an expedited service with an email report that’s relatively quick. You could reach out to them and ask.   FedEx the sample to them and pay a small extra fee to move to the front of the line and get the report within a day of them receiving it… or something like that  

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

[rpasetto]

@Scotty,  Thanks for the advice, we had called Blackstone yesterday, and we were told they are backlogged.  DId some research and found another lab which will do fast service... we hope.

[Paul J A]

I have used the attached for years with great success. It is the best PDI you will find and is a standard used by many dealers.

Good luck Rick

RV BUYSELL CHECKLIST.pdf

22 hours ago, rpasetto said:

Thank y' all for the advice...

@Jim J, Ray D, Steven K:  Yes, I'm having oil sample kits shipped to their mechanic: Engine oil, Trans Fluid and Generator Oil.

@Dr4Film, I have one list and reviewing/editing it now, I will look at the others.

@Steven K,  Yes, I expect to "get my hands dirty" inspecting hoses, belts, filters etc. to be sure all was changed as I was told .... bringing some XL 10mil rubber gloves.

@JohnC3, @Tom C, Yes I know they did not replace airbags,  Looked up the Contitech AS8897 which I replaced quite a few on the Dynasty I used to have, also did them on the Signature I had.   

Looking forward ... but if the deal doesn't work out, I will continue.

.. Rick P

 

Mike, Yep, I was just researching that.  I see the Conti 8897 at a few places from the hundreds to twice that.  Also recall buying 3/4" to 1/4" adapters at Fastenal... If I recall they're needed at rear, not at front if there are 3/4 hoses from Ping tanks.  Also recall  getting a teflon paste sealant for the adapters/fittings.   

And use compression fitting on the bags where ever possible.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Paul J A
clarify

[Denny Wagaman]

I was asked by a salesman If I was a MacGyver type of guy when I was looking at a 2002 Prevost. I said yes but then I said no that isn't true. He said well if you are not I wouldn't buy this age of Prevost or motor home unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money having someone else that is qualified to do the work.   I immediately thought of the company that I use which I believe can fix anything and their hourly charge is I (think) $179/hour.  Then because they are so busy having to wait to get  an appointment, then driving 350 miles to get there and 350 miles to return home. But what if the repair was serious enough not to be able to drive it that far. Oh well.

Denny Wagaman

2011 Monaco Camelot DFT 43

[Tom Cherry]

Having Caravaned with a guy who drove a 2001 Prevost from British Columbia to NC because it was such a bargain....and he was a McGyver type of guy...

AND then, over the years....he had a Prevost tech flown it a few times....to "FIX" the electronics.  There may BE a better way today with remote hookups.

But, the Electronics in the 2001 were MPX.  Don't know WHOM's....wasn't smart enough back then to even KNOW was MPX was.

BUT, he would "loose" something as in a switch didn't work or something that had a motor would not function.  Prevost would send in a tech with a tool bag, some "anticipated" spare boards or such and his laptop...  BINGO, a few hours later.. FIXED.

He paid Portal to Portal (Working hours) rate of $150 and also the lodging and air fare.  BUT, he did have, original MSRP, a $1.75 Million Conversion....

Not really relevant...but confirming what Denny was told..  BTW, we caravaned with the GM of a HR dealership...and he could do a few things....but NOT the electronics or such.

[rpasetto]

@Tom C,  Thanks again for the info.  Fortunately these earlier Sigs did not have either MPX for house or chassis.  The only multiplexers were for some of the functions of the smart wheel controller.

A friend of mine had a mid 2000s Prevost, the Mux system was run on a Windows XP computer with special I/O boards driving relays.  He told me he planned to change that over to a newer system... don't know if he did, shortly after that he sold that coach.

 

 .. RP

[jacwjames]

Rick,

Are you going to look at the rig yourself??

Since you've previously owned an 03 Dynasty and an 05 Signature I would think you are capable of doing the inspection for common sense type stuff. 

Is there a specific thing you need info on. 

[Ivan K]

9 minutes ago, rpasetto said:

@Tom C,  Thanks again for the info.  Fortunately these earlier Sigs did not have either MPX for house or chassis.  The only multiplexers were for some of the functions of the smart wheel controller.

That's what I like about our 2000 too, no unnecesary controllers for anything other, relatively simple. No proprietary parts or coach specific software, no PCB boards to burn, all pretty much easily traceable and obtainable on the electronics side.

 

[rpasetto]

24 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Rick,

Are you going to look at the rig yourself??

Since you've previously owned an 03 Dynasty and an 05 Signature I would think you are capable of doing the inspection for common sense type stuff. 

Is there a specific thing you need info on. 

Yes, JIm... definitely going.  I know there are differences, just not sure what all differences may be.  Want to be sure I have all the bases covered.

[jacwjames]

6 minutes ago, rpasetto said:

Yes, JIm... definitely going.  I know there are differences, just not sure what all differences may be.  Want to be sure I have all the bases covered.

Suggest downloading a wiring diagram to familiarize yourself with it and you'll be able to confirm if anything has been modified.

Some modifications are good but some are made to jury rig something to get it to work. 

Good example is the Bluesea MLACR, one of the best mode's I've made. 

[veraken]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:37 AM, jacwjames said:

I use JG Lubrication, I sent in a Tranny oil sample in on a Monday and had the sample results back by Friday.  If you expedite shipping you could get a quicker turn around.  But you have to get the sample kit from them, which takes ~3 days, I just ordered 3 more kits to keep on the shelf.  ~$35 per sample

You may check a local service shop and see if they can turn a sample around quicker and/or see who they use for a quick turn around.

Quick question.  How did you get your transmission sample?

[jacwjames]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:54 PM, veraken said:

Quick question.  How did you get your transmission sample?

The sample kit comes with a length of small tubing.  JG Lubrication does sell a vacuum pump to pull a sample. 

I use a very large syringe that easily pulls a sample.  Here is what I bought originally to use to inject epoxy. DEPEPE 2pcs 150ml Large Plastic Syringes with 2pcs 47in Handy Plastic Tubing and Luer Connections, Plastic Syringes for Liquid, Watering Plants, Scientific Labs, Refilling

I started my rig and let it run for a while.  Then stuck it down the transmission dip stick tube, cut it off so where I can push it on to the syringe and pull the sample.  They want 2/3rd of the small bottle for the sample size, pull enough for that. 

Then just fill out the slip they provide, put the  sample sticker on the bottle.  The slip has the info for oil type, what it was in etc.  They provide a small envelope to ship it in, I put the address of the lab that is closest to me on the envelope and take it to the post office.  It cost ~$5 to mail it in for standard delivery. 

On 11/17/2023 at 12:08 PM, Ivan K said:

That's what I like about our 2000 too, no unnecesary controllers for anything other, relatively simple. No proprietary parts or coach specific software, no PCB boards to burn, all pretty much easily traceable and obtainable on the electronics side.

 

This one of the reasons I decided to keep my rig.  There are some circuit boards but for the most part a fairly simple electrical system that I have learned over the 15 years we've had the coach.  Don't know everything about it but enough to be able to fix 90% of what goes wrong.  It does have some control boards that might be a problem if they fail but so far I've been able to keep my rig on the road. 

[veraken]

Thanks Jim.  Appreciate the info.

[JohnC3]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:04 AM, zmotorsports said:

 

Actually, air springs for these chassis are quite common and easy to find so I wouldn't be too worried there.  

 

Glad to hear that. I replaced mind about 2 years ago and got hold of a airbag brand cross-reference. There were 6 brands and 5 were out of stock or discontinued. I believe the place I got mine was layman bros in PA if I recall correctly. They were 125 each.