water pump not working

[Just Jim]

woke up this morning and no water.  Have checked the power to the multi switch in the water pump bay and getting intermittent voltage between 12 and 8 volts.  This is the power going to the switch with the wire disconnected from the multi switch.  Baffled by the intermittent voltage.  I would think you get 12 volts coming in or none, so don't think its the fuse?  Any suggestions?  We are in a campground so can use the bathhouse but difficult to wash dishes, etc.

Just for background... the coach has the multi switch controller so you can turn the water pump on from many locations.  However, this is a problem with the power going to the switch, so I don't think the multi switch is the problem, but I'm certainly open to any help.  Thanks.

[Ivan K]

My pump control gets power from a 12V fuse box in the bedroom cabinet. Is all your other 12V house power stable to eliminate salesman switch solenoid?

Assuming you measure the intermittent voltage against frame ground, not the box ground. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Ivan K

[Just Jim]

yes, everything else seems normal.  used various grounds in addition to the box ground.  All consistent with less than 12 volts most of the time

[Dwight Lindsey]

Jim:

I can't help with the voltage issue.

You might try hitting the pump with a hammer.  Not kidding.  Just tap the top where the pressure switch is.

Long ago I had an issue with the water pump not working.  I tapped it several times and it worked again for a year before failing completely.

Dwight

[Dr4Film]

Is this the multiplex water pump controller you have in your coach?

 

[Just Jim]

yes...that is what mine looks like.  I took the wire off the 12v terminal and that is what is testing with intermittent voltage, so I assume I'm bypassing the switch.  I took the pump out thinking it might have failed, but tested it with the 12 volt at the battery and it runs fine.

[Tom Cherry]

@Just Jim

First up.  Find your Prints.  I THINK that you have the Controller that Richard posted.  It depends on a Toggle ON and Toggle OFF Ground signal from every switch.  There is a fused 12 VDC power to the Module.  If there is NO power... incoming to the Module....NO WORK.  Then the LOAD goes out to the pump. If you do NOT have power (12 VDC and Ground) on the pump...then it is in the controller or the fuse.

IF YOU DO HAVE POWER (at the pump), then the pump is bad...or there is an "issue" where tapping (not bludgeoning it) will or may work.

This is how it works...

EDIT to my post.  Read this.  If you have INTERMITTENT power (12 VDC) incoming...there is a bad connection UPSTREAM or a fuse.

You can TEST, by using a good 12 VDC signal to the LOAD.  That is what would make it work.

THE BEST TEST.  Get a 12 VDC (fused around 15 amps with an inline fuse holder) and put it on the 12 VDC.  Then, if the controller is working, all will be well.  IF NOT...Controller.

GOOD LUCK

 

[Dr4Film]

Jim, there are 4 terminals, first one should have a constant 12 VDC power to it, second one is where all of your WP switches are connected, third one is a wire that should go to a HD relay and the fourth is your ground wire.

Remove the LOAD wire to test. When you turn on the WP at any of the switches you should have 12 VDC at the LOAD terminal. Have you tested for that?

The terminal marked 12V should have 12 VDC power to it ALL the time.

This is how that multiplex switch works. When you turn on any of the WP switches a signal is sent to the multiplex which it then sends the 12 VDC power from the 12V terminal to the LOAD terminal.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Dr4Film

[Just Jim]

I have tested the 12v incoming wire, disconnected from the switch controller.  it has 8 to 10 volts, which I assume is not enough to make the pump work as I've tried wiring directly to the pump from that source.  I don't think it is the switch but not sure... it seems to be a low voltage issue coming into the switch, which again has me baffled.

I have not tried testing the load terminal, but will try that next.  However, it seems if I don't have 12v at the 1st one, then the 1st one is the source of the problem?

[Dr4Film]

Yes, that wire should have 12 VDC on it.

Run a temporary wire from your 12 V battery to that terminal, then turn on a WP switch to see what happens.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Dr4Film

[Ivan K]

Check power at the hot side of the mentioned fuse to isolate which way to look from there. The pump switches send ground and have no effect on the incoming 12V to the box.

[Dr4Film]

Here is a wiring diagram.

Water_Pump_Wiring_2006_Camelot_42-DSQ.pdf

[Dennis H]

In an emergency situation, simply run a separate wire from your 12vdc supply directly to the pump. I carry a length of wire, fused, with a switch that I can use to trouble shoot electrical gremlins. You can get an inline fuse holder at any auto parts, wally world or like place. You could use a clamp for the batter to act as a switch, or simply get a switch to install in line. That will keep the campground happy that you're not doing your dishes in their showers.....😁...Dennis

[Just Jim]

15 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Here is a wiring diagram.

Water_Pump_Wiring_2006_Camelot_42-DSQ.pdf 14.28 kB · 1 download

this diagram shows 3 fuses?  My wiring diagram says I have a 30amp fuse in the FRB, which I have not been able to identify as I have no diagram for the fuses.  However, I assumed the fuse was good since I have power at the multi switch.

 

I like the idea of just running a jumper wire.  Going to make a run to the auto parts store to get some wire.  Thanks for the idea.

[Dr4Film]

Don' focus on the specifics of that particular schematic as chances are each coach is somewhat different for fuses. However, the basics are there.

Looking at the schematic from left to right, 12 VDC positive on terminal one, all water pump switches on terminal two, water pump relay and pump on terminal three and a good 12 VDC negative on terminal four.

You will have to root out where your fuses are for the the water pump system.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Dr4Film

[Just Jim]

Ok... thanks everyone.  The jumper wire at least has us back with running water.  Will sort out the low voltage once we get back home.  If anyone has any suggestions in the meantime please let me know .  Thanks again.  I'm thinking that once I retire next year I may go back to school to become an electrical engineer...  I think you need it to own one of these rigs!!!  LOL.

[Dennis H]

Most likely you will find a loose wire, probably a ground, on one of the switches or even within the multiplex, Usually an incomplete connection is what will cause your voltage drop,. Glad you're up and running again. Save that length of wire for next time....and there will be a next time.,...lol.....Dennis

[Dr4Film]

@Dennis H

He determined that his incoming 12 VDC Positive wire attached to terminal one is faulty. The switches work, the multiplex controller works and his water pump works.

He used a bypass wire from his battery to terminal one and everything works as it should.

That will get him back home where it will allow him time to figure out why his 12 VDC positive wire is faulty.

[Donflem]

You guys are amazing.👏👏👏👏👏👏 os glad I belong to this group.

[Just Jim]

16 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

@Dennis H

He determined that his incoming 12 VDC Positive wire attached to terminal one is faulty. The switches work, the multiplex controller works and his water pump works.

He used a bypass wire from his battery to terminal one and everything works as it should.

That will get him back home where it will allow him time to figure out why his 12 VDC positive wire is faulty.

• Actually Richard, I had hooked my jumper directly to the pump, but since I had wired in a switch it was easy enough to switch my jumper to the 12v power terminal on the multi-switch to test it and nothing.  The interior switches still don't work and the pump does not come on.  So, that tells me I need a new multi-switch?  Once I get home I can test to see if there is output on the "load" terminal and down to the relay, etc.  Anyone know if those Intellitec switches are still available?

[Dr4Film]

Yes, they are still available.

Here is one source, but I  would check around for better pricing.

Intellitec 0000145100 10 Amp Monoplex Water Pump Control, Black https://a.co/d/iDDXske

I didn't realize you wired the bypass directly to the pump. I assumed you wired the bypass to the 12V terminal as suggested.

My mistake. With that said then it sounds like the controller has taken a dump.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Dr4Film

[Gary Petersen]

Humbly, I do not understand all of the member's knowledgable contributions discussing this 12V electrical problem.

If memory serves me correctly, it sounds like a problem I had sometime ago with the pump not working.

As with my situation; Could the Relay that feeds into the Multi-Switch be providing inconsistent voltage??

As I recall, I went to Napa and got a new HD (40 amp? ) headlight relay and that replacement part solved my problem.

 

 

 

[Dr4Film]

Gary, I am not familiar with any relay prior to the water pump multiplex switch on the 12VDC positive wire. The wiring diagram I had posted earlier has no such relay in the schematic.

Didn't realize that your water pump wiring is different than most others. Can you elaborate more on your wiring to clear up any confusion?

[Just Jim]

As far as what is visible the relay is after the multi switch and mounted just below it.  Since the switch is only $40 or so, I think I'll order one and replace it.  If it is not the problem, not bad to have a spare.  I'm also going to order a new pump as I don't mind having one of those on hand.  I will update the board once I get it replaced; hopefully it fixes it but I may be back seeking more advice/info.  Made it through the weekend and safely back home.  Thanks for everyone's help!!! 

[Tom Cherry]

On 11/18/2023 at 12:06 PM, Just Jim said:

this diagram shows 3 fuses?  My wiring diagram says I have a 30amp fuse in the FRB, which I have not been able to identify as I have no diagram for the fuses.  However, I assumed the fuse was good since I have power at the multi switch.

 

I like the idea of just running a jumper wire.  Going to make a run to the auto parts store to get some wire.  Thanks for the idea.

DOUBLE DITTO, Richard provided you with the “Generic” Pump circuit.  What you need is also the 2003 Dynasty, which probably covers the Execs.  Richard’s 2006, I think, a “rare bird”.  It has the Intellitec MPX….but I think his pump circuit is a “Neanderthal” in that it STILL has the Intellitec Pump Module.  Monaco eliminated that in 2007 and upgraded to a total MPX control of the pump….and has been using that since then.

Bottom line, for future reference, use your prints….which includes the pump.  But the 2 006 Pump Circuit is probably the same….and I pulled it and looked….but look in your prints to verify.  That should also show you where the main power comes from….Your Voltage to the controller is too low.  Bad relay or loose connection or your House batteries are “not good”.  

Here is the drawings for your MH.  I thought that they were in the manual.  The 2003 was a “unique year” in that Monaco didn’t post a lot of info on manuals and sales brochures online.  But we have these in the files.  The Dynasty and up all had the same “wiring”, but as special options or more “goodies” were included on the higher ends….then they were listed on the base Dynasty.

Follow these drawings.  Read and understand the basic circuit for the controller and it shows how the “negative ground” switching works….odds are…you have this same curcuit…..you can find a LOT in the files by searching….