Monacoers Daily News

10 hours ago, jacwjames said:

So, I also own a 2002 Windsor so should be pretty close to what Todd has (snowflakes). 

He states the disconnect was off but was able to start the coach at which point he saw the high voltage on chassis batteries.  I'm so confused🤬

With the disconnect off the coach should not have started UNLESS the Isolation Solenoid is closed which would combine both battery banks, that's the only way to get voltage to the starter, otherwise the two systems are separate.   I know one time my disconnect failed and I had NOTHING at the dash and the rig would not start, basically the same as turning the disconnect off.  Only way to get power to start is to go through the isolation solenoid which closes when you press the boost switch. 

I've sent Todd a PM to have him check some things.  Hopefully he'll report back tomorrow. 

FWIW…..the fog cleared a little this morning.  Early after joining, I helped some fellow owners of 2009 Camelot’s with a few “strange” conditions.  Jim’s comments sort of rang a bell.  We had one owner that did, frequently, turn off the Chassis battery, thinking, even on shore….with a 100% “functional” Intellitec BIRD or BiDirectional charging system, that he was protecting the chassis battery.  His rig would start.  I was, offline, in contact with 3 or so other 09 owners.

NONE of our rigs would start.  We all tested and repeated.  The individual with the condition also reported erratic conditions after starting that showed up on the gauge cluster. I then contacted Monaco tech support.  This happened after the Navistar purchase and the same prebankruptcy personnel had been recalled and were there.  

Their comment.  It “AIN’T” SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN…and they said it was not a condition that was ONLY a Camelot/Scepter issue….but happened on several models over the years.  Bottom line…..”don’t try to start” with the Chassis OFF.  Quote….in is not something that is supposed to happen, but it does…..and we never got a good answer.  That was circa 2011…..

Fast Forward.  Now after looking at high current prints on just about every model goin back to 2000….  Jim brings up a good point.  The Chassis Battery is NOT switched ON or OFF going to the starter.  That would take a 2000 Amp disconnect switch.  

BUT, the Chassis Disconnect switch has to be ON to provide power to the entire Chassis circuit. That power is what sends the start signal via the ON ignition switch to the rear and energizes the RRB. Without pulling prints, there is a signal to the starter solenoid and “something” is now providing power to at least that section of the Chassis circuit.  This comment is sort of a reach back in time….but based on the circuit. In addition, there is a Neutral Safety Start signal and relay involved.  Whether this Windsor has the same “wiring discrepancy (s) that one Camelot had and it is wired “per the OEM prints” or whether someone “modified” a circuit or such, I don’t know. What I DO know is that the 09 Camelot had a functional BIRD system….as I learned how to “troubleshoot” that system from the Intellitec tech support tech….and he was good and patient…..but, he had a coronary and the “candy” shop took over troubleshooting.

SO….all that to say…  I DO KNOW that the Big Boy Solenoid was NOT engaged or closed with the Chassis disconnect OFF as in the Big Boy was not passing current or in effect, jumpering, the batteries.  

OK…..cutting to the chase…based on what I personally know today…. this may, for this one Windsor, be NORMAL.  Many other Windsor owners might disagree….and for their rigs, be correct. All i know for certain, Monaco tech support said it infrequently happened…almost rare….but it DID and on a MH right out of the factory.  SO, chasing a wiring error, only on a few units out of a model year, will be challenging….unless one knows the circuits and has the prints and can find the “opps, shouldn’t have been here” connection.  

Next up, addressing the comment about the “Victron” being the equivalent of the Magnum BMK….which is a shunt based system.  I admit to being less than well versed on aftermarket additions.  Unfortunately, I and many contributors have tried to lend assistance to folks that said “Victron”….and yes, now that I see the screen, that does make sense.  However, we had situations where there was a variety of “Victron” devices and it was only after a lot of frustration on my and other contributor’s part did we realize that the OEM “systems” had been virtually gutted…..and all our comments about look here and do that just lead to frustration on the other end.

The STOCK RESPONSE, we usually make is….What mods have been made and provide pictures. Then usually a member with specific knowledge of that add on(s) will take over and usually go offline as the bulk of assistance given here is for the OEM components.  So, I appreciate the update.

But, fundamentally…..the “don’t do this” advice from the Monaco tech support and my recommendation still stands.  Follow the operating procedures in the manual, Monaco, or the “device’s” manual.  If that eliminates the problem and no harm has been done….unless you have a high IQ in electrical/electronics and can follow the schematics and then manually troubleshoot….then best to move on.

Sorry for the length….but some posts are considered as “teaching moments” and members learn the basics and the contributions here are more focused and relevant.

Todd….please let us know if the spike or alarm happens when both switches are on. No one, way back when, when your MH was built was using a BMK or Shunt based monitor….I don’t know when Magnum added the kit to their line, but I don’t recall the BMK initials being used to much later….mid 2010’s or so.

I really don’t think there is an issue…just an abnormality in your wiring and when all is correct, the alarm doesn’t sound off…

Thanks…

The Ugly Fix is a module that replaces the altimeter module. It makes the engine think it’s alway at high altitude and therefor keeps the EGR valve closed. The benefits of this are slightly better fuel mileage, very slight. To me the bigger benefit is keeping soot out of the crankcase. I installed one a couple years ago and the difference in the cleanliness of the oil is amazing. Now my oil is still translucent after thousands of miles. So good to keep that abrasive soot out of the motor

Todd….please let us know if the spike or alarm happens when both switches are on
 

Everything functions as it should when both switches are on as stated. They both are always on unless perhaps performing some work. 
I will send some photos of my BIRD and Maintainer with some notes showing some disconnected wires that are taped up. Whether or not it has anything to do with it I don’t know. But all is good when both switches are on. GOOD THING I had the Victron over voltage warning enabled.

Thank you

15 hours ago, cbr046 said:

The sender at the starter (ISC) is for low psi only.

- bob

It depends

Cummins had a TSB where they would change out a proportional sender to a low pressure type.  I've heard different reasons/theories for this, one of which they were getting lots of complaints of low oil pressure so the opted to go with a switch type sender.

So if you sender goes out and you try and find a replacement using the Cummins PN the one that will come up is the switch but it include a different wiring harness and require a reprograming of the ECM   If you go this route and monitor your engine it will show 55psi or "0". 

For me I want to see the correct oil pressure

TSB Oil Pressure Switch Installation.pdf

10 minutes ago, tmw188 said:

Todd….please let us know if the spike or alarm happens when both switches are on
 

Everything functions as it should when both switches are on as stated. They both are always on unless perhaps performing some work. 
I will send some photos of my BIRD and Maintainer with some notes showing some disconnected wires that are taped up. Whether or not it has anything to do with it I don’t know. But all is good when both switches are on. GOOD THING I had the Victron over voltage warning enabled.

Cool.  UNLESS someone did a “Mod”, then you have one of the “rare….but OEM” units that WILL start, although it isn’t, according to the old time Monaco Tech Support….supposed to.  As many state here, you have a SNOWFLAKE… when operated correctly, all is fine.  What alerted the Camelot owner was the gauges acting erratically.  Your may NOT if the “glitch” or wiring error was different.  

This situation can be a learning or teaching moment.  If it doesn’t start….don’t always assume a dead battery.  BOTH switches should be ON.  If the gauges or any other electrical abnormalities occur….I THINK that the Camelot would not allow the tranny to shift…or maybe the Allison pad was dead…..this is a 13 YO recollection. Then SHUTDOWN and start with the basics.

Glad it is solved…..based on Monaco’s comments….you would have been alerted to an abnormal condition…..  BUT, my take, what caused the issue, as previously posted.  The “lockout” on the charging circuit was NOT energized….as it is is powered from the chassis bank and the “ignition” switch and the entire starting system being properly “ON”. Since it wasn’t, the intake heaters were on when the starter was engaged and the delay, as in the “wait to start” sequence had not been allowed to “run the proper” cycle.  Thus, the power hungry toaster elements were ON….and the starter was engaged.  PURE SPECULATION….your battery must have been GOOD….as in the engine started WITH the heaters on.  

I may be  wrong….others will or may chime in, but that abnormal or non standard condition alerted our Victron….

SO, a reminder to all.  If you routinely turn off the batteries, both or just one bank, turn them BACK on.

Curious….do you ordinarily see a “wait to start” light? Mine is temperature sensitive.  If so snd it didn’t happen when the spike occurred….then that verifies my theory.  If NOT….as Monaco said….”we don’t know….just follow the manual”.

Thanks for the feedback….

When I first considered flooring I picked up a bunch of samples from Lowes and showed them to my wife. 

The firsts ones she discarded were the ones that were heavily textured.  She travels with dogs (lots of dogs) and the texturing would hold dirt and water after walking dogs during a rain. 

The next thing was the joints.  Some of the samples had a groove/space at the joint, another place for dirt.  So this eliminated a large number of samples

Lowes had one style that was smooth with no joint and provided a natural look. 

I laid this in 2021 and it seems to be holding up pretty good but time will tell.  I did not use any type of adhesive, it is a floating floor.  I know the recommendation is to allow for ~1/4 expansion joint around the perimeter but I made it tight side to side.  This is only a ~8' distance so I feel the expansion is minimal and having a tight fit keeps it positioned.  I did allow a space between the tile and the laminate front to back, which was covered by the transition piece. 

We're on the road till tonight. Just wondering if others see a change in boost with altitude changes.

What house batteries do you have that started the engine?

Also, I am curious on how many amps it took to start the motor? on your Victron app, look at the trends page- select current and go bank in time until you see those start events.

If you purchase the standard Victron BMV712 that has a 500a shunt- not recommended to put more than 500amps through it - so I would not redo the experiment.

The house batteries did not turn the starter, they only somehow provided the starter solenoid signal which is minimal.

Btw, my front brass fittings are for a large flared airline (I guess to allow a larger volume of air to the ping tanks expanding the working volume of the bags) and similar to:

The other issue is that my rig has only a 200 amp continuous duty latching solenoid.  This is used as a battery boost function but not to carry the full load of starting.  Won't take many times before this fails.  The primary purpose of this solenoid is maintaining batteries voltage while driving or on shore power, not to carry lots of amps. 

Still waiting on info from Todd, he texted me this AM saying he was tied up in the morning.

Why can't you build a wooden cribbing under the vertical frame members, raised by the jacks? I use 4x6x8 wolmanized with a steel plate under the frame. If you need more, build under the jack and redo the process. This is what I do to winterize , gets the weight off of the tires.

7 hours ago, Bill R said:

@dl_racing427 David, if it stays always at zero I would suspect either a bad indicator or a leaky or plugged indicator line.  These devices go bad over time.  
 

On my coach, after driving and reaching boost pressures of 25psi plus, the indicator will show around 3-5 inches H2O for a new filter.   I will always reset the indicator back to zero after each trip.  At least this is my experience.  

This is what mine seems to do

So just an update, I tore it all apart and there is absolutely nothing in it or anything that could collapse. I have 2 quite hard elbows that seem to be plastic from the filter to the turbo. Just weird IMO.  I stuffed some rags in the there and blew out the 1/4" line to the minder but it was clear. I guess I just have to reset it after each trip. Maybe just a poor design or placement of the minder tube on the intake?

2 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

The other issue is that my rig has only a 200 amp continuous duty latching solenoid.  This is used as a battery boost function but not to carry the full load of starting.  Won't take many times before this fails.  The primary purpose of this solenoid is maintaining batteries voltage while driving or on shore power, not to carry lots of amps. 

Still waiting on info from Todd, he texted me this AM saying he was tied up in the morning.

I stick with my theory.  The “isolator” did not provide the starting current, even if energized or engaged. I know that from working on a similar rig. The direct 4/0 cable from the Chassis Bank to the starter lug delivers that 1500 or so amp current.  YES….if the isolator was powering the low current, under 200 Amps to “rest” of the chassis circuit….the. It was “technically” in the entire circuit…but not being overloaded.

With the alleged mods….who knows.  But even if 100% OEM, there were certain MH’s…not a lot that would start like Todd’s.

In addition, Monaco would tell owners….not a warranty issue…if you follow the correct procedures as in “both banks” on.

But, if you or Todd, find a mod that is causing this, please post as others might benefit….

JD,

One more question since you do not currently have an inverter:

- Do you plan on adding an inverter in the future?  If you do:

• - What is the rated maximum running output of your future inverter?
• - What is the rated maximum surge output of your future inverter?

The other possibility is that the filter size is undersized for the engine.  If you post a few pictures, folks with the same model year would chime in and comment if your setup is correct.

5 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

The other possibility is that the filter size is undersized for the engine.  If you post a few pictures, folks with the same model year would chime in and comment if your setup is correct.

I’ll snap a few pics. The filter is huge. Thank you 

We are at that age where major lifestyle changes are required.  After 24 years of Holiday Rambling, we are selling our second coach which was purchased new in 2010.  See Word attachment for coach details and a picture.  The coach will be at the Ramblin' Pushers Chapter 419 Maintenance Session in Goshen by Thursday, May 2 for inspection.  Asking $60,000.

Adam Haybach
269-274-3501

MotorhomeSale.docx

14 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

The other possibility is that the filter size is undersized for the engine.  If you post a few pictures, folks with the same model year would chime in and comment if your setup is correct.

Wouldn't surprise me.

A few members with '06 Windsors , came with 6" in / out filters!

Sometime in 2001, Monaco went from the slip ring in the steering column to the clock spring in the column. Look at the VIP controller and on the bottom of  the VIP Master is a four wire connector J1 almost in the center bottom. J1 is the connector that feeds the information from the steering wheel switch module to the VIP module. it is a four wire connector. Pins 1 and 2 are the MPX signal wires from the steering wheel module to the VIP module. Pin 3 is the ground for the steering wheel module Backlights and Pin 4 is the power for the backlighting. If the steering column has a slip ring instead of a clock spring, which prior to 2001 they did you will not be able to have the backlighting as the slip ring has the provision for only two wires. If your column has a clock spring it has a four wire connector PL5 and PL6. At the bottom of the steering column the wiring harness has PL3 and PL4. PL4 connects to PL5. PL3 goes to the VIP module connector J1.

There will be four wires connected to the connector J1 and those four wires will connect to PL3/PL4 and continue to PL5/PL6-the clock spring. 

If there is only two wires connected to J1, Pin 1 and Pin 2, those two wires will connect to connector P21/P22 in the bottom of the steering column and continue up to the the slip ring and to connector P7/P8 and P9/P10, which will be spade connectors and no provision to allow backlighting to the switch module.

If you have four wires coming out of J1 they will go to connector PL3 in the bottom of the steering column. PL3 plugs into PL4 and continues up the column and plugs into PL5 on the Clock Spring. The harness connected to the switch module will have four wires going to Connector PL6 that plugs into the clock spring.

If the coach is a 2001 or newer and has a Clock Spring but only has two wires connected to J1 you would be able to add the backlighting by just adding the other two wires to Pin 3 and 4 on J1 and running them up the column to the clock spring.

Hello everyone,

on my 2000 Dynasty, while traveling I noticed my ladder supports 

Has broke/unscrewed from the rig. The supports bar has not twisted.

Before I started disassembling, I was wondering if anyone knows how that attaches. Do I need a new support bar because something broke inside? Or just retighten it up?

thanks

7 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Wouldn't surprise me.

A few members with '06 Windsors , came with 6" in / out filters!

Here is my filter 

Rear ladder issues
CAT Stephen 19 hours ago