installing a brake controller

[Dr4Film]

As stated previously, ignore that connector as it has nothing to do with the rear trailer connector. If you can't find the correct connector then you will have to wire up your own as I had to do on my previous 2002 Windsor.

Your brake controller typically requires 12 VDC + & -, a positive brake switch signal and a heavy gauge Blue wire that runs from the controller to the rear 7-way trailer connector.

Monaco has used a negative signal for their brake switch which will NOT work for the controller. If that is what you now have then you have to wire in a relay to change the negative brake signal to a positive brake signal.

[deputylynch]

Well you're right, that plug is not for the brake controller! After looking at the schematics and tracing it down, it is for a Dash and GPS Interface. It sure does look like the connector though that everybody else has shown! 

I have a blue wire into the trailer connector but I've not been able to trace it to see where it goes and I'm waiting for a new signal tracer to come. 

On an unrelated note, since I have the dash all torn apart, does anybody know what these wires and red bulb, buried up in there, are for? 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, deputylynch said:

Well you're right, that plug is not for the brake controller! After looking at the schematics and tracing it down, it is for a Dash and GPS Interface. It sure does look like the connector though that everybody else has shown! 

I have a blue wire into the trailer connector but I've not been able to trace it to see where it goes and I'm waiting for a new signal tracer to come. 

On an unrelated note, since I have the dash all torn apart, does anybody know what these wires and red bulb, buried up in there, are for? 

Keeping this on track…but the Bulb is sometimes for programming the remote locking system.  Also a word of warning…be careful in there.  Folks have grounded or messed up some stuff…be careful..

NOW….and this may be a bit long.  I nave no idea what the OTHER connector is.  I had started a post this morning and now am thrashing it so here goes.  IF you have found the infamous “brake controller output wire to the 7 Pin rear connector by running a piece of hookup wire from the  front to the rear and checking continuity….OR out an inline (probably 15 Amp) fused power source to up front and then it now has 12 VDC back there…..then STICK with the first connector.

No one, or maybe a Diplomat expert, can give you the wire descriptions for the OTHER plug.  However, if you download the 2007 prints and start pouring over them, eventually, you will find where they come from and what they are used for.  So….I’m sticking with using what you know and have and have posted and offering this solution.  Time to stop the detective work and figure out HOW to get the 5 wires you need….which is the one constant in prewired connection since Monaco added it. My solution is to use the KNOWN wires and add a simple relay and get the missing two.  SO here goes.

You have a switched Ignition wire.  BTW, in finding the Blown Fuse, you also repaired the Charging Circuit.  For the life of me….I don’t know the logic of it running power up front.  The STUPIDITY of that was short lived…and from that  point on, the HOT (Chassis 12 VDC) always came from up front….so…let that one go….you can CHARGE a Toad or Trailer  battery….

You have isolated the “no signal wire” that goes from the front to the 7 Pin and it will be the used to activate the Brake Control Signal to the brake control device….same as the automotive “brake light signal”.

You have a ground wire.   NOW.  Here is how it can be easily modified or revised and is simpler than chasing ghost wires without Pulling a lot more prints. BTW…if there was a CD Changer option for your MH, that NEW Plug could be it.  Later on….look at the stereo or radio or HEC prints for the 2007.

OK….NOW.  Look at the Delphi square PLUG.  Start with the #85 wire.  Ignition ON, Engine running,  Press or hold down (not stomp) the brake pedal.  Use you VOM on Continuity.  If the “print” is correct….#85 will be the Brake Pedal “activation signal” that you need will be a ground.  Ground out the other meter probe.  If you have continuity, then  if you release the pedal and the ground is killed or there is an OPEN circuit….that is the wire you need.  Monaco did way too much Negative or Ground switching and we old time gear heads have to keep telling ourselves that.

NOW….if that wire doesn’t work….check the rest of them.  You have to have a “engine on” & brake pedal depressed signal….Positive or negative.  If the rest of them don’t give you a GROUND ON & OFF…Brake Pedal controlled….then try using the VOM in 12 VDC and check that.  There are, I believe from the prints and your pictures, TWO BRAKE RELAYS.  IF you don’t have a signal from the Delphi wires….start probing terminals 87 & 87A on the other relays with someone depressing the brake.  

Now, order a Bosch (I like OEM) standard 5 pin 87 or sometimes called 87A) relay from Amazon and a base or plug in for it with a pigtail.  I’d order a spare or two and you have a bunch of these relays.  Put the following into an Amazon search box “Bosch Automotive 0332209159 Changeover Mini Relays - 5 Pins, 12 V, 20/30 A”.  Thats what to buy.

OK…the rest is simple.  The “GROUND” brake signal goes to Pin 85.  Now, you need a POWER wire.  Order an inline fuse holder as well.  Get a piece of #12 or #14 hookup stranded wire. The size depends on what the “output” signal will be FROM the brake controller.  ODDS are that infamous “going to rear wire” is #12….so use that.  Find a Chassis Battery “Stud” up front.  Put a ringed terminal on the fuse holder and attach it and (leave the fuse out), crimp connect the hookup wire to the other end.  Run that wire to wherever the plug is. Then just FOLLOW the wiring diagram in figure 2.  Hot to BOTH pins 86 and 30.  Then the output of Pin 87 is the “BRK to Controller” or the POSITIVE brake pedal light signal.

Run a tap or wire down to terminal 86 or 30 and you have your “HOT ALWAYS” wire….which is the Trailer Charger (mis named by many) wire on the print.  In the later years, it was labeled and fed from UP FRONT as B+ or BAT+ which is synonymous in the Monaco vernacular as Hot Chassis Positve Power.  All you need is a 15 or 20 A fuse depending on the circuit requirements of the brake control device.

NOW….you have all your wires…HOT; Positive Brake (light) signal, Ignition ON; Output WIRE to 7 Pin & Ground.  You are good to GO.

OK…..SUPPOSE you actually DO locate a Posiitve ON Brake Light signal and NOT a Ground.  Simple.  Run that wire, per the print, to terminal 85.  Then GROUND to 86.  When you run your fused HOT line, it only goes to terminal 30.  You also use this terminal for the HOT ALWAYS line as well.

That will make it work like the print that was posted earlier of what the “prewired” harness morphed into.  It also is exactly (assuming a negative ground brake depressed signal) like the Diplomat print. Good luck.  Once you get it working, a picture please…

 

[deputylynch]

I haven't found a wire that goes all the way back correctly. The one I did find runs from that Dash/GPS Interface Plug back to pin 7 which is the reverse circuit, not pin two which would be for braking. Looking back, it would have been a lot simpler to just run a wire back there and wire up a brake controller from scratch! Now it's a challenge that I'm determined to figure out if in fact this unit was pre-wired or not. When I get a new signal tracer later today I'm starting back at the blue wire {pin 2} and seeing where it goes. 

[Dr4Film]

That sounds like the most logical place to start. Using a good signal tracer to locate the other end of the blue wire may just take you to the proper connector that you have been searching for.

[Tom Cherry]

7 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

That sounds like the most logical place to start. Using a good signal tracer to locate the other end of the blue wire may just take you to the proper connector that you have been searching for.

MAYBE….  But only MONACO never sold the mating connector for but ONE system..  There were two different connectors used.  One was specifically designed with a pigtail to plug into a US Gear Universal Tow Brake.  It’s other end mated up with the US Gear Wiring connector.

The other was a “6 pin” (5 used) connector with a 5 wire pigtail.  Monaco switched from an Amphehol style to the Molex….   So, you ordered a $25 five wire harness about 2 ft long with 5 wires….no connector on the other end.  Later on, it was a Molex.  In helping folks for over 14 years find and hook up a controller for a TOAD braking system or Trailer, I THINK  one person had a Amphenol or Molex end harness to plug in.  The rest identified the wires….same as we are trying to assist here.  Then they cut off the connector and crimped on butt splices or used the 3M SkotchLok (sp?) taps and hooked up their system.

SO…he is NOT, I think, matching up some 6 pin pigtail….just hunting the connector and Monaco GOOFED big time and finally got it right in 2006…..

But in DL’s case, he has identified THREE of the wires.  And more critically, the infamous “Brake controller out”.  If you look at the print for how it was supposed to be prewired and also understand that Monaco GOOFED and then corrected….and then saw the idiocy of the charging wire relay going back up front for the “Hot always”….and that is how it was done in 2009….and until the end of the Monaco’s….The way to resolve this with logic and a VOM is to finish finding the Brake Signal wire and add a fused “Hot” line.

DL doesn’t have prints in his manual.  We don’t have a 2005 SPECIFIC set of Monaco prints,  We DO have a great set of Monaco factory supplied electronic prints and each is a PDF.  Just a lot of.  You would have to download all of them,,,,then start finding the “signal” and use a tracer.  It is easier, based on what is in the field, and is known, just to MILTP (Make It Like The Print).  We used to stamp critical machine parts and schematics with that…in a “coarser version” as undoubtedly, a tool maker or an electrician would do it like HE thought it would work….usually NOT.

My advice.  Keep it simple and locate the signal wire and MILTP….

[JeffM31]

20 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

MAYBE….  But only MONACO never sold the mating connector for but ONE system..  There were two different connectors used.  One was specifically designed with a pigtail to plug into a US Gear Universal Tow Brake.  It’s other end mated up with the US Gear Wiring connector.

The other was a “6 pin” (5 used) connector with a 5 wire pigtail.  Monaco switched from an Amphehol style to the Molex….   So, you ordered a $25 five wire harness about 2 ft long with 5 wires….no connector on the other end.  Later on, it was a Molex.  In helping folks for over 14 years find and hook up a controller for a TOAD braking system or Trailer, I THINK  one person had a Amphenol or Molex end harness to plug in.  The rest identified the wires….same as we are trying to assist here.  Then they cut off the connector and crimped on butt splices or used the 3M SkotchLok (sp?) taps and hooked up their system.

SO…he is NOT, I think, matching up some 6 pin pigtail….just hunting the connector and Monaco GOOFED big time and finally got it right in 2006…..

But in DL’s case, he has identified THREE of the wires.  And more critically, the infamous “Brake controller out”.  If you look at the print for how it was supposed to be prewired and also understand that Monaco GOOFED and then corrected….and then saw the idiocy of the charging wire relay going back up front for the “Hot always”….and that is how it was done in 2009….and until the end of the Monaco’s….The way to resolve this with logic and a VOM is to finish finding the Brake Signal wire and add a fused “Hot” line.

DL doesn’t have prints in his manual.  We don’t have a 2005 SPECIFIC set of Monaco prints,  We DO have a great set of Monaco factory supplied electronic prints and each is a PDF.  Just a lot of.  You would have to download all of them,,,,then start finding the “signal” and use a tracer.  It is easier, based on what is in the field, and is known, just to MILTP (Make It Like The Print).  We used to stamp critical machine parts and schematics with that…in a “coarser version” as undoubtedly, a tool maker or an electrician would do it like HE thought it would work….usually NOT.

My advice.  Keep it simple and locate the signal wire and MILTP….

In case anyone needs the rear plug here it is. This fit my 06 Dip. https://rveliteparts.com/products/rev-rv-10115077-towing-harness?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=mid-performers&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtuOlBhBREiwA7agf1srHDXddTjtVtfc8HYQKqaASeeX55lPNuP7Yx3JQsfL4qYbX9mIE2hoC_Z0QAvD_BwE

You could make your own but I felt this was easier even though outrageously priced IMO 

[Tom Cherry]

43 minutes ago, deputylynch said:

I haven't found a wire that goes all the way back correctly. The one I did find runs from that Dash/GPS Interface Plug back to pin 7 which is the reverse circuit, not pin two which would be for braking. Looking back, it would have been a lot simpler to just run a wire back there and wire up a brake controller from scratch! Now it's a challenge that I'm determined to figure out if in fact this unit was pre-wired or not. When I get a new signal tracer later today I'm starting back at the blue wire {pin 2} and seeing where it goes. 

I THOUGHT you said you HAD found the infamous Pin 7 or whatever  wire.  OK…keep searching for the right connector…..OR…

Your MH MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PREWIRED.  This was, a LATE running change. LOOK at the “released date”.  Monaco began making the 2005 Units in September, 2004.  It WAS listed, in the Sales Brochure as a “standard item”.  If so, then chase all you want…it is a ghost.  The PRINT is dated June 2005 (see the release title block)….THEN read the EFFECTIVITY date…8/15/05 and 8/29/05.  Translated.  It was designed and then engineering releases the prints to Purchasing.  Vendors make the additional WIRE needed to the loom and the rear connectors have to be matched and mated.  If you do NOT have a main factory backbone harness with the wire or the right connectors going to the 7 Pin….you AIN’T got it and will never find it.  YES, use a tracer and try.  BUT, in reality….I’m having doubts it is there.  Your unit would have to be a LATE 2005.  REV, if you spend time on the phone MIGHTBtell you the manufacturing  date….but that is a BIG if.

I’ll offer some real world advice.  There were supposedly some spare wires in the looms or harnesses to the rear.  Find ONE of those.  Hook it up to the right Pin.  Find the brake signal.  Wire it up like I outlined.  YES….running a new (pull 3 while about it) would have been easier. BUT do NOT be surprised if it was never wired or “properly” wired.

You have a simple solution once youmfind the blank or unused wire.  I am not going to revisit the posts and parse your words, but Imthiught you said it was FOUND and you needed just the SIGNAL and a HOT wire.  

OK….moving along.  I’d actually start tracing the Charging Wire.  Pull the fuse you found.  Trace that wire.  If you can find it, and IF (I say IF) it’s up front…..like the print….the wherever it is terminated, thats the connector.

Keep at it…but don’t live in hope of IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE and die in despair….because the odds are….It Ain’t…..now that you clarified that you don’t have the SIGNAL OUT Wire to the 7 pin.

Good Luck….

I suggest that DL be allowed to do the work.  If any 2005 or 2006 Diplomat owner has found his prewired harness, then please post a picture….that will be the most productive until DL comes back with some tracing information.

BUT, I WOULD also test the square relay socket and identify the brake pedal signal….that’s a MUST for this to work

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, JeffM31 said:

In case anyone needs the rear plug here it is. This fit my 06 Dip. https://rveliteparts.com/products/rev-rv-10115077-towing-harness?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=mid-performers&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtuOlBhBREiwA7agf1srHDXddTjtVtfc8HYQKqaASeeX55lPNuP7Yx3JQsfL4qYbX9mIE2hoC_Z0QAvD_BwE

You could make your own but I felt this was easier even though outrageously priced IMO 

MY TAKE….yes ridiculously priced.  Here is what I SUSPECT it is.  The term “4 wire flat” is misleading.  It appears to be an OEM item, uodated, for those that have the older 7 Pin round with NO 4 blade flat connector on the left side.

It has a 6 wire pigtail.  That…MY GUESS….is compatible with or mates up to the SIX wire/ blade connector that was used.  NOW…another WAG….the infamous Trailer or Brake output wire has long (memory?) been called the BLUE wire.  Notice that one is different….like it was an AFTERTHOUGHT and when Monaco went to the Prewired, they just ran an extra wire.  Don’t ask where all this speculation is coming from….just seems to be buried in my head as I spent a lot of time back there and also have looked at photos and helped many.

@deputylynch  is this how the pigtail to your 7 pin looks? With the additional wire and connector and NOT a 7 pin flat one?  just passing it on in case you missed it.  

[Dr4Film]

I have yet to see a Monaco coach with a 4-way male on the rear of the coach. My Windsor had a 7-way and I added the 6-way as the coach and my car had separate turn signals and brakes.

My Dynasty has the standard 7-way which most Monaco coaches come with and a 6-Way. I have been using the 7-way as my 6-way to 6-way umbilical cord needs to be looked at but hasn't been high on my priority list.

That link to the web site that as the 4-way female to a male 7-way adapter cable may be useful for other purposes but not for most Monaco's.  The big advantage for that cable is that it has a separate Blue wire for the electric brakes.

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Dr4Film

[Tom Cherry]

10 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

I have yet to see a Monaco coach with a 4-way male on the rear of the coach. My Windsor had a 7-way and I added the 6-way as the coach and my car had separate turn signals and brakes.

My Dynasty has the standard 7-way which most Monaco coaches come with and a 6-Way. I have been using the 7-way as my 6-way to 6-way umbilical cord needs to be looked at but hasn't been high on my priority list.

That link to the web site that as the 4-way female to a male 7-way adapter cable may be useful for other purposes but not for most Monaco's.  The big advantage for that cable is that it has a separate Blue wire for the electric brakes.

 

Agreed.  The 6 pin pigtail is definitely an OEM Monaco connection.  Assuming one has a 6 pin connector already, gow long does it take to make up a new 7 conductor harness and put in a new 7 pin connector.

Richard is probably correct about how often does one use a “flat 4 wire”?  I have a really expensive 7 - 4 molded & coiled adapter….$15 on Amazon.  I have towed trailers and boats for 65 years.  I hate to think how many 4 flat pigtails I have spliced in personally or for friends.  50 would not be an exaggeration….meter and test light.  Same for replacing pigtails on trailers.

Most trailers don’t have a long (or at least in my buggy whip days) 4 blade that will have enough slack to work without a hang down mating connector.  That’s when you use the 7pin rig….

[JeffM31]

24 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Agreed.  The 6 pin pigtail is definitely an OEM Monaco connection.  Assuming one has a 6 pin connector already, gow long does it take to make up a new 7 conductor harness and put in a new 7 pin connector.

Richard is probably correct about how often does one use a “flat 4 wire”?  I have a really expensive 7 - 4 molded & coiled adapter….$15 on Amazon.  I have towed trailers and boats for 65 years.  I hate to think how many 4 flat pigtails I have spliced in personally or for friends.  50 would not be an exaggeration….meter and test light.  Same for replacing pigtails on trailers.

Most trailers don’t have a long (or at least in my buggy whip days) 4 blade that will have enough slack to work without a hang down mating connector.  That’s when you use the 7pin rig….

A few trailers I have l, have flat 4 on them. Just convenience honestly if for some reason I forgot my 7x4 adapter. It was only available to order with the 4 pin on it too so bonus for me.  I was going to just make one but the old Monaco plug next to the radiator was all nasty looking. So instead of cutting and splicing I paid out my ass for the right one. Lol

@deputylynch this was my plug under the dash. Don’t know if it helps but here it is. 
 

[deputylynch]

How many hours of my life could have been saved with a good circuit tracer! Once I had one in hand almost everything was figured out within minutes!

Attached is a picture of what I have, a miniature four pin with only four wires going to it. It was found on top of the steering wheel in the dashboard behind the instrument panel after ripping everything apart! It checks out with the attached schematic other than I still don't have any voltage to pin 3 for the brake circuit. So I'm still going to need some help with that?

When I go to the relay I have 12 volt at pole 85 which doesn't seem right according to schematic and then 30 and 86 are in a circuit together but no 12 volt power going to them as the schematic shows. Pole 87 is going up to the pin number 3 as it should but it's not getting any power. The way I read the schematic pole 85 should go to ground from the brake pedal and pole 30 & 86 should have the 12 volt to them that then would throw over to pull 87 up to pin 3? What am I missing here? Shouldn't pole 86 always go to ground and pole 30 have 12 volts then triggered over to 87 when activated by 85?

[Dr4Film]

That is not the correct connector. How did you determine that it was?

The connector you are looking for will have a large gauge wire specifically for the electric brakes along with smaller gauge wires for the lights, etc.

[Agpopp]

45 minutes ago, deputylynch said:

How many hours of my life could have been saved with a good circuit tracer! Once I had one in hand almost everything was figured out within minutes!

Attached is a picture of what I have, a miniature four pin with only four wires going to it. It was found on top of the steering wheel in the dashboard behind the instrument panel after ripping everything apart! It checks out with the attached schematic other than I still don't have any voltage to pin 3 for the brake circuit. So I'm still going to need some help with that?

When I go to the relay I have 12 volt at pole 85 which doesn't seem right according to schematic and then 30 and 86 are in a circuit together but no 12 volt power going to them as the schematic shows. Pole 87 is going up to the pin number 3 as it should but it's not getting any power. The way I read the schematic pole 85 should go to ground from the brake pedal and pole 30 & 86 should have the 12 volt to them that then would throw over to pull 87 up to pin 3? What am I missing here? Shouldn't pole 86 always go to ground and pole 30 have 12 volts then triggered over to 87 when activated by 85?

That's the same connector I posted for my Neptune the post before you started. Glad you found it. 

[deputylynch]

Aggpop I was just about to say that after going through the whole post! Did you find the female that matches it? Was yours buried on the top of the steering column in the dash behind the instrument panel? I still have a problem though that I'm not getting any power to pin 3 Don't know if it's a blown fuse or what? 

[Tom Cherry]

11 hours ago, deputylynch said:

Aggpop I was just about to say that after going through the whole post! Did you find the female that matches it? Was yours buried on the top of the steering column in the dash behind the instrument panel? I still have a problem though that I'm not getting any power to pin 3 Don't know if it's a blown fuse or what? 

OK....Folks....for whatever reason....the early "versions" of the PREWIRED do not match what most of us are used to or have have seen.  DL PM'ed me last night.  We are now working offline on this.  He says that he has found FOUR of the wires.  HOT, Ignition Switched, Ground and "Wire back to the 7 Pin connector (Probably CENTER).  He has asked me to help him find the Brake Pedal signal.  I have sent him some things to try and he will call me later on.

SO....that's it..  We need to talk to avoid all the confusion. There is still a question in my mind and it needs to be discussed one on one....so bear with us.  @Agpopp, I may need to give you a call to understand something that you posted.  

Thanks to all the folks that have helped....and if we hit a brick wall....then there will be a followup post and where we are and then see if anyone has a solution.

 

[Agpopp]

11 hours ago, deputylynch said:

Aggpop I was just about to say that after going through the whole post! Did you find the female that matches it? Was yours buried on the top of the steering column in the dash behind the instrument panel? I still have a problem though that I'm not getting any power to pin 3 Don't know if it's a blown fuse or what? 

There is no female that matches it. I cut off the plug and wired it to my brake controller.  One is power from ignition, one is ground,  one is brake signal from relay (that may or may not be backwards...reread my post)  and one is signal wire to the rear plug. 

[Tom Cherry]

OK....FWIW.  DL's MH may or may not be like it was supposed to be...and that is confusing.  BUT, if anyone is interested, I was digging into the 2007 prints to help someone else.  Here are the TWO prints that were FINALLY RELEASED for the system....but the wiring along the way was done in many different fashions....

DL and I will sort this out later today if he is still working on it...

EDIT 2:00 7/21/23.  Figured it out.  gonna work.  will post solution later, fascinating

2007 Diplomat Brake System Wiring 38071456.dwg.pdf 2007 Diplomat Prewire Trailer 38060702.pdf

[dandick66]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:35 PM, Dr4Film said:

I have yet to see a Monaco coach with a 4-way male on the rear of the coach. My Windsor had a 7-way and I added the 6-way as the coach and my car had separate turn signals and brakes.

My Dynasty has the standard 7-way which most Monaco coaches come with and a 6-Way. I have been using the 7-way as my 6-way to 6-way umbilical cord needs to be looked at but hasn't been high on my priority list.

That link to the web site that as the 4-way female to a male 7-way adapter cable may be useful for other purposes but not for most Monaco's.  The big advantage for that cable is that it has a separate Blue wire for the electric brakes.

 

Here’s a picture of the connector on my 2012 Diplomat.  It has both the 4 pin and 7 pin connections .  I assume this was from the factory. 

[Dr4Film]

2 hours ago, dandick66 said:

Here’s a picture of the connector on my 2012 Diplomat.  It has both the 4 pin and 7 pin connections .  I assume this was from the factory. 

That is a Combo 7-way and 4-way together. My statement/claim was in response to the post about the conversion cable which went from a 4-way to a 7-way.

I am sure these combo" units were used primarily once they hit the marketplace as they started showing up on trucks and other vehicles too.

Older coaches will only have the 7-way like my Windsor and Dynasty. I carry a 7-way plug that inserts into my 7-way receptacle that converts to a 4-way when I need it.

[cowpoke]

The Hunt for The Elusive Plug To The Brake Controller on 07 Signature----hope this is in the right spot on the forum.

I'm installing a brake controller and found out the hunt for the elusive blue wire is joke,.. First off I checked my seven wire plug on the rear of coach and determined I had The blue wire going to that plug---Great.. Now head to the cockpit and try and find that end---not so easy. Right away I pull a plug out from under the dash and thinks Yippee-Not so, its a six prong plug and no juice in any of the prongs. I have The wire chaser and I'm rooting around under the dash to no avail. I read in the forum here to take the cover off to the left of the drivers chair, so I started doing that and I figured this seat has to go otherwise I'll never have the room needed to get a good look in there, so off with the seat--now I'm Cookin--Well not really, enough wire in there to wire a small shopping mall---I rooted around in there worried I would mess something important up--I did get a ping on the wire chaser, but where was it coming from in all that wire, I never did really find that out this go round. Put everything back together, bolted the chair back in, went back to tearing the dash apart---we talking two or three days here, rooting around, then on the internet, rooting and internet--reading everything I could find on the forum. so on and so forth.. Finally a friend of mine that owns a RV shop said he'd give me his guy that was pretty handy on wiring, as it turned out this fellow was small bone and slim so he could fit around the brake pedal and steering column a lot easier than I could, plus he is    alot younger.. So he came out to my shop and then he started rooting around, he did over again most of what I already had tried except he didn't pull the drivers chair---he got deeper in the bottom of that compartment by the drivers chair and the wire chaser found a wire,,, he kind of figured the wire was running towards the front of the coach, so he took the kick panel off just left of where the brake pedal is and rooted around in there for awhile,,,he was getting the odd noise from the wire chaser but weak,,, so up on the dash he went and opened the dash up on top in front of the steering wheel and started rooting around in there for a bit-- he started getting some noise from the chaser,  he cut some zip ties and dug deeper, way in the far corner to the left of where the maxi brake switch is inside the dash he found a six prong plug with five wires that he was able to get out under the dash---I told him that doesn't seem like the one we were looking for as I thought the one we wanted was a five wire on a four prong plug.But he said ,nope, this is the one the chaser is going crazy---and it was!! Finally----its been a long frustrating week!  WE cut the  six prong plug off the wires he found and clipped the four prong plug off the brake controller, hooked them up and Walls---We got brakes... And So the 07 signature is prewired if you can find the d*** thing!!!  I realize this was kind of a long story, but might help somebody... And YES, in the wires we found, one was BLUE!

[Tom Cherry]

10 minutes ago, cowpoke said:

The Hunt for The Elusive Plug To The Brake Controller on 07 Signature----hope this is in the right spot on the forum.

I'm installing a brake controller and found out the hunt for the elusive blue wire is joke,.. First off I checked my seven wire plug on the rear of coach and determined I had The blue wire going to that plug---Great.. Now head to the cockpit and try and find that end---not so easy. Right away I pull a plug out from under the dash and thinks Yippee-Not so, its a six prong plug and no juice in any of the prongs. I have The wire chaser and I'm rooting around under the dash to no avail. I read in the forum here to take the cover off to the left of the drivers chair, so I started doing that and I figured this seat has to go otherwise I'll never have the room needed to get a good look in there, so off with the seat--now I'm Cookin--Well not really, enough wire in there to wire a small shopping mall---I rooted around in there worried I would mess something important up--I did get a ping on the wire chaser, but where was it coming from in all that wire, I never did really find that out this go round. Put everything back together, bolted the chair back in, went back to tearing the dash apart---we talking two or three days here, rooting around, then on the internet, rooting and internet--reading everything I could find on the forum. so on and so forth.. Finally a friend of mine that owns a RV shop said he'd give me his guy that was pretty handy on wiring, as it turned out this fellow was small bone and slim so he could fit around the brake pedal and steering column a lot easier than I could, plus he is    alot younger.. So he came out to my shop and then he started rooting around, he did over again most of what I already had tried except he didn't pull the drivers chair---he got deeper in the bottom of that compartment by the drivers chair and the wire chaser found a wire,,, he kind of figured the wire was running towards the front of the coach, so he took the kick panel off just left of where the brake pedal is and rooted around in there for awhile,,,he was getting the odd noise from the wire chaser but weak,,, so up on the dash he went and opened the dash up on top in front of the steering wheel and started rooting around in there for a bit-- he started getting some noise from the chaser,  he cut some zip ties and dug deeper, way in the far corner to the left of where the maxi brake switch is inside the dash he found a six prong plug with five wires that he was able to get out under the dash---I told him that doesn't seem like the one we were looking for as I thought the one we wanted was a five wire on a four prong plug.But he said ,nope, this is the one the chaser is going crazy---and it was!! Finally----its been a long frustrating week!  WE cut the  six prong plug off the wires he found and clipped the four prong plug off the brake controller, hooked them up and Walls---We got brakes... And So the 07 signature is prewired if you can find the d*** thing!!!  I realize this was kind of a long story, but might help somebody... And YES, in the wires we found, one was BLUE!

Welcome to the joys of chasing wires or “plugs” that are supposedly always “HERE”.  As a veteran of “helping” many members find the 6 Pin/5 Wire plug….it, on the 06 and up….is IN THERE SOMEWHERE.  But the training and mood and “lack of concern” of the assembler is the biggest variable.  I KNEW mine, 2009, had it.  I tried to get the delivering dealer to get his techs to find mine.  They gave up.  They felt and fished and such.  Finally, even though they had pulled off the access cover to the drivers left console (the one with shifter and such), they said…have to pull off the top…as in the whole panel with switches and shifter and air brake.  Dealer said NO…

OK…got it home.  I am 6’2” & 215 or so and have 36” arms and a good “tactile” feel in my fingers.  I did not have to remove the drivers seat…but did wiggle around down there.  Turns out, my assembler wrapped it up.  He hid it under a lot of bundles and I started feeling “zip tied” bundles and sort of tugged on them,  bingo…

YES…many folks have just reached under the dash to the left and in front of where the drivers lower control wraps around…or some have found them by pulling the access panel to the dash and fishing to the lower left…

BUT…RARELY have the wires up front been “colored”.  All #12 with dot matrix printed labels.  I pinned mine out.  It worked…

Good job….

[Nevada Rob]

I must be the luckiest guy on the planet. The hardest part of installing a brake controller was getting down on the floor and squeezing in between the driver seat and the steering column. At 6' 3" and 215 lbs coupled with a few hard years on the body, I have decided that I am not Gumby like anymore. The plug was hanging right there on the left side of the column waiting to be used. With the all the amazing help this site has and the willingness of many to provide pictures and advise, the whole job took 45 minutes and one cold beer start to finish. The two attached pictures shows all I needed to know. 

[cowpoke]

You are definitely one lucky guy!!