Chugging and Smoking

[Mocephus]

Hi friends! We left this past Thursday from our NC home to our destination campground in PA. About halfway into our 7.5 hr trip, our coach started spitting and sputtering going up hills and pouring black smoke out of the exhaust. Couldn’t really get above 60 even on level ground. Could maintain about 50-55 up hills. Turbo would run up to ~45 - 48 psi under any load and ran around 10 - 15 psi on level spots. Engine and tranny temp normal as well as oil pressure. Check engine light would come on as soon as I touched the gas pedal and then would go off once I removed my foot from the pedal.

We pulled over at the next rest area and I contacted a DD60 mechanic in the area. He suggested a possible EGR valve issue or a Vpod issue…both of which were not quick fixes. He advised no harm to the engine if we kept driving...so we continued to our destination.

Once at the CG I called a mobile mechanic who arrived and read the trouble codes (see photo below). He said the codes ruled out any bad fuel or fuel filter issues. He said the ”39” code was not very specific and could be one of five or six different things (EGR valve, turbo, cracked something?, etc.). Again, nothing that could be diagnosed or repaired at the CG. So, we’ll be driving it home Tuesday and then to a repair shop.

Just wanted to see if any of you have experienced anything similar and what the issue was in your situation. Thanks for your help!

‘05 Monaco Signature w DD60

[cbr046]

When it happened to me (low power / Cummins ISC) the more the filter got clogged the less boost (and power) could be generated.   

Just for grins I would change fuel filter(s) anyway, especially the primary.  Easy to do and would eliminate one possibility (IMO). 

Good luck on your return trip.

- bob

[vito.a]

I agree. Do the inexpensive/easy first.  I'd change both fuel filters, primary first.  Then start it, run for 3 min and shut down and change secondary.  

If you have a cracked exhaust manifold turbo boost will be low.  

Also check the air filter.  It may be plugged or coming apart.  

[Gary Cole]

Good boost pressure, lots of smoke , low power. Excessive air intake restriction?, Or fuel injector? If you can feel and hear a chugging sound probably points to a cylinder misfire.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Gary Cole

[Paul Busch]

I had the same problem last year with my 05 Series 60 and after 4 mechanic’s telling me it was number 4 injector and I should replace all 6 while I was at it a truck shop read the codes and said it was a injector harness shorting out and was the problem 9 out of ten times with that motor. I changes the harness myself for 280.00 and it runs smoothly and pulls hard now. Mine showed the same symptoms. Good luck

[Mocephus]

2 hours ago, cbr046 said:

When it happened to me (low power / Cummins ISC) the more the filter got clogged the less boost (and power) could be generated.   

Just for grins I would change fuel filter(s) anyway, especially the primary.  Easy to do and would eliminate one possibility (IMO). 

Good luck on your return trip.

- bob

Thanks Bob, I’ll definitely give that a try first. Thank you!

11 minutes ago, Paul Busch said:

I had the same problem last year with my 05 Series 60 and after 4 mechanic’s telling me it was number 4 injector and I should replace all 6 while I was at it a truck shop read the codes and said it was a injector harness shorting out and was the problem 9 out of ten times with that motor. I changes the harness myself for 280.00 and it runs smoothly and pulls hard now. Mine showed the same symptoms. Good luck

Oh that’s good to know! Thank you Paul!

55 minutes ago, Gary Cole said:

Good boost pressure, lots of smoke , low power. Excessive air intake restriction?, Or fuel injector? If you can feel and hear a chugging sound probably points to a cylinder misfire.

Ok thank you!

1 hour ago, vito.a said:

I agree. Do the inexpensive/easy first.  I'd change both fuel filters, primary first.  Then start it, run for 3 min and shut down and change secondary.  

If you have a cracked exhaust manifold turbo boost will be low.  

Also check the air filter.  It may be plugged or coming apart.  

Thank you Vito! That’s a good recommendation. 

[Bill C]

Is 45 to 48 psi your normal boost?

Mine only goes up to 24 psi, but that just my engine.

[Mocephus]

2 hours ago, Corkman said:

Is 45 to 48 psi your normal boost?

Mine only goes up to 24 psi, but that just my engine.

I would see it jump up in that range temporarily during a long uphill but now it seems to stay in the range under load unless I really back off the throttle. That’s what I’ve been doing to keep the boost pressure down and to keep it from sputtering, but it has me crawling up hills.

I’m going to change the fuel filters today (if I have them with me) and double check the air filter. The air filter resistance gauge shows it’s ok, but I’ll do a visual inspection as well. 

[kenandjoanne2002]

I think Paul may be on the right track but.  I have a 02 Dip w/ISC 330.  Coming across the Continental Divide from Colorado Springs to Gunnison is quite a pull.  Upon reaching the summit I was on exhaust brake while on steep downgrade.  Upon reaching the flats I turned off exhaust brake and stepped on throttle.  Boy you could have hidden a battle ship in the black smoke.  I found the exhaust brake cylinder was stuck closed.  I found the air line to the cylinder has melted and loosing air.  I made it into Gunnison and replaced the melted air line.  I also found that the plunger had unscrewed from the piston.  Called Pack Brake who said that they had never heard of that before.  They sent me a new one and all is well.  Ken Parsons   

[Bill C]

3 hours ago, Mocephus said:

I would see it jump up in that range temporarily during a long uphill but now it seems to stay in the range under load unless I really back off the throttle. That’s what I’ve been doing to keep the boost pressure down and to keep it from sputtering, but it has me crawling up hills.

I’m going to change the fuel filters today (if I have them with me) and double check the air filter. The air filter resistance gauge shows it’s ok, but I’ll do a visual inspection as well. 

Before the problems started what was your boost max psi?

[willbo777]

Since the OP hasn't answered, boost of 45-48 perfectly normal for a DD.  I indicate the same thing.

[Mocephus]

2 hours ago, Corkman said:

Before the problems started what was your boost max psi?

I would occasionally see it jump to 40+ When under load but it normally ran around 15 - 25 psi. 

[Bill C]

1 hour ago, willbo777 said:

Since the OP hasn't answered, boost of 45-48 perfectly normal for a DD.  I indicate the same thing.

What’s a “DD”?

[vito.a]

7 minutes ago, Corkman said:

What’s a “DD”?

Detroit Diesel, or sometimes called DD Series 60.  It's one of the most popular over the road truck diesel engines.  

Edited April 25, 2022 by vito.a

[allphase8]

If you have a PAC Brake could be stuck closed.  That were they symptoms when mine was stuck.

[Paul Busch]

I don’t know if it helps but I first got a code when claiming hills in Virginia last year. The light would go out when going down and on when climbing. It eventually stayed on and I had loss of power and could not get over 50 or shift out of 5th gear. I changed all the filters and eventually the wiring harness for injectors . Runs great now. Good luck.

[Mocephus]

35 minutes ago, allphase8 said:

If you have a PAC Brake could be stuck closed.  That were they symptoms when mine was stuck.

Thanks! That’s interesting. How was it fixed?

8 hours ago, kenandjoanne2002 said:

I think Paul may be on the right track but.  I have a 02 Dip w/ISC 330.  Coming across the Continental Divide from Colorado Springs to Gunnison is quite a pull.  Upon reaching the summit I was on exhaust brake while on steep downgrade.  Upon reaching the flats I turned off exhaust brake and stepped on throttle.  Boy you could have hidden a battle ship in the black smoke.  I found the exhaust brake cylinder was stuck closed.  I found the air line to the cylinder has melted and loosing air.  I made it into Gunnison and replaced the melted air line.  I also found that the plunger had unscrewed from the piston.  Called Pack Brake who said that they had never heard of that before.  They sent me a new one and all is well.  Ken Parsons   

Thanks! I’ll look into that!

3 hours ago, Corkman said:

What’s a “DD”?

Detroit Diesel engine…60 series

28 minutes ago, Paul Busch said:

I don’t know if it helps but I first got a code when claiming hills in Virginia last year. The light would go out when going down and on when climbing. It eventually stayed on and I had loss of power and could not get over 50 or shift out of 5th gear. I changed all the filters and eventually the wiring harness for injectors . Runs great now. Good luck.

Thanks Paul! I changed the fuel filters today. We head home tomorrow so we’re praying that the filter changes will resolve the issue! I’ve heard the wiring harness issue is not uncommon though. 

[Paul Busch]

It is an adventure huh?

[Mocephus]

1 hour ago, Paul Busch said:

It is an adventure huh?

Lol you said that right. I’m ok with mundane though when it comes to some things. 🙂

[FLynes]

Check out a YouTube channel called “Bus Grease Monkey’. Scott is a DD guru, mainly pre-DDEC, but he does work on them and has forgotten more about the Detroit Diesel than most mechs could ever learn. If I remember, there was a video of a 60-series bus that came to him with the same symptoms, it might be helpful to you. He’s located in Tennessee, btw.

[cbr046]

26 minutes ago, FLynes said:

Check out a YouTube channel called “Bus Grease Monkey’. Scott is a DD guru, mainly pre-DDEC, but he does work on them and has forgotten more about the Detroit Diesel than most mechs could ever learn. If I remember, there was a video of a 60-series bus that came to him with the same symptoms, it might be helpful to you. He’s located in Tennessee, btw.

I couldn't find the video, but this one was interesting -

 

- bob

[FLynes]

8 hours ago, cbr046 said:

I couldn't find the video, but this one was interesting -

 

- bob

What a beautiful sound.

 

Moe, I found this site for you: http://www.detroitmanuals.info/series-60-egr/790600.html

[Mocephus]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:21 AM, FLynes said:

Check out a YouTube channel called “Bus Grease Monkey’. Scott is a DD guru, mainly pre-DDEC, but he does work on them and has forgotten more about the Detroit Diesel than most mechs could ever learn. If I remember, there was a video of a 60-series bus that came to him with the same symptoms, it might be helpful to you. He’s located in Tennessee, btw.

Thank you! I'll check him out!

19 hours ago, FLynes said:

What a beautiful sound.

 

Moe, I found this site for you: http://www.detroitmanuals.info/series-60-egr/790600.html

Perfect! That is a BIG help!