idaho jim Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 I just replaced my IOTA transfer switch today with the recommended ESCO 50BRD, but didn't add the jumper wire between the HOT 1 and HOT 2 for the generator input. This is on a 2007 Diplomat 36PDQ with an 8kw Onan generator (original owner). I was a bit nervous about adding a jumper between the two HOT wire inputs. It's probably the correct thing to do as it is specified in the trouble shooting guide to add this jumper. I just need to hear it from you folks that it's OK. Upon testing without the "jumper" on generator input, there was a lack of power on LINE 1. Line 2 had the required 120v. Shore power was fine as was the generator "delay" and associated LED illuminated. I just need assurance from you folks that have done this and it's OK before I fry an electrical system that has been great so far. Thank you for any info .... as we have loved this motor home. Didn't see the jumper on the IOTA transfer switch .... Jim S. Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Your description sounds a bit off to me. I would want a picture of the transfer panel up close, the manual, and then some more information. I cannot visualize connecting two hots together with a jumper. The generator (assuming things without going back in the thread here), should be the same as shoreline with two separate hots. The transfer panel simply swithes between two shoreline hots, and two generator hots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 I don't see anywhere on this wiring diagram (post below) for the ESCO (aka Lyght) LPTBRD Transfer Switch for the jumper that you are seeking information about. Need to be more specific with a photo plus your installation manual in order to receive any useful recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 8 hours ago, idaho jim said: I just replaced my IOTA transfer switch today with the recommended ESCO 50BRD, but didn't add the jumper wire between the HOT 1 and HOT 2 for the generator input. This is on a 2007 Diplomat 36PDQ with an 8kw Onan generator (original owner). I was a bit nervous about adding a jumper between the two HOT wire inputs. It's probably the correct thing to do as it is specified in the trouble shooting guide to add this jumper. I just need to hear it from you folks that it's OK. Upon testing without the "jumper" on generator input, there was a lack of power on LINE 1. Line 2 had the required 120v. Shore power was fine as was the generator "delay" and associated LED illuminated. I just need assurance from you folks that have done this and it's OK before I fry an electrical system that has been great so far. Thank you for any info .... as we have loved this motor home. Didn't see the jumper on the IOTA transfer switch .... Jim S. Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Back to the basics. The FIRST thing you need to be aware of.....is that the Terminal Strip or the Wiring layout is DIFFERENT on the ESCO LPT50BRD than from the IOTA. If you read some of the posts here, I gave specific instructions. You mark the cables based on how they were wired on the IOTA. IOW, Mark the SHORE and the Generator. The OTHER is the output and goes to the MAIN PANEL. You have to reverse two of the fittings and sometimes that takes a bit of a tug to get the waterproof (Plastic) conduit to line up properly. VERY IMPORTATNT. CHECK THAT OUT.... Next up. You don't need to do anything ELSE. It works, OUT of the BOX properly. There "IS" some time delay adjustments that you COULD make...but that is not necessary. There is NO ADDITIONAL jumpers to be added. I have attached the Trouble Shooting and Installation Instructions. The final item. You need to use Loctite Green on the terminals. The recommended (per ESCO) is to tighten to the NEC Spec. Assuming you want the correct method without purchasing an inch pound torque wrench is this. First put on the Loctite. That is SPECIFICALLY designed as low strength and recommended for vibration environments for electrical connections. Find a good, palm filling screwdriver. You are probably familiar with the blue or red mechanics "rags" or shop towels. Get one of them. They are a coarse weave....not like a sheet. Wrap the shop towel around the handle 2 or 3 times. You need a TWO handed grip to get them tight. Which ever hand is your "Power" or torque hand (typically the right if you are right handed), that is the one that you wrap around the screwdriver handle. Then the other hand is the PUSHER. You put that hand on the END (top) of the screwdriver handle. You push with all you might so that the screwdriver blade stays engaged into the slotted recess. Simultaneously torquing or tightening the screw. Stop if you start to rub a blister (LOL....) That will put about 35 - 40 Inch Pounds of torque on each fastener which is well within the NEC rated spec. NOW, what I do is to get all the terminals snugged down....so that all the wires are connected. Then I go back over the terminals....TWICE. If you do one terminal at a time and double tighten, there is a good possibility that moving the wires to get them in will also cause movement in the one just beside it or others. SO....after you are finished....DOUBLE TIGHEN. You can go sequential or random....just make sure that you do EVERY terminal TWICE using the Two Handed method. That's it. I have posted this and there have been at least 25 or more folks that followed that technique and never had any bad installations. That's it.... LPT50BRD.pdf LPT50BRD8x8x4TrblShootRepair020106.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idaho jim Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Walker, thank you and others for responding .... The last sentence of the "GENERATOR POWER TO COACH" paragraph "A" says "for 120vac generator input, HOT ONE should be jumper to HOT TWO" ??? I did connect all inputs to the new transfer switch according to the diagram on the panel. Was a little difficult as all in puts were reversed from that in the IOTA. Every thing works ... except the input to distribution panel of house (input "7") does not have 120vac with the generator. The generator is providing 120 vac to input "4" on the panel. Hope that helps... Thanks, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 34 minutes ago, idaho jim said: Walker, thank you and others for responding .... The last sentence of the "GENERATOR POWER TO COACH" paragraph "A" says "for 120vac generator input, HOT ONE should be jumper to HOT TWO" ??? I did connect all inputs to the new transfer switch according to the diagram on the panel. Was a little difficult as all in puts were reversed from that in the IOTA. Every thing works ... except the input to distribution panel of house (input "7") does not have 120vac with the generator. The generator is providing 120 vac to input "4" on the panel. Hope that helps... Thanks, Jim @idaho jim I am editing this post and sending you the alert. I just REREAD your post. You have, I THINK, a dangerous situation. You need to be conversant with a DVM and do the following. IF you have NO power on the main panel on Generator....and it WORKS on the shore....you have REVERSED the SHORE and the LOAD. When the Genny is NOT running.....the default or Normally Closed position is that you will have INCOMING POWER from the Shore and it goes to the MAIN PANEL or LOAD. When you start the Genny....the ATS switches and the power goes to the MAIN PANEL. If you reversed the Main Panel and the SHORE....you WILL have power to the main panel....just coming in "back door". BUT, if you turn on the Genny....then the GENNY POWER will be going to the SHORE. This plug as OPEN CONTACTS. IT IS NOW ENERGIZED and is DANGEROUS. DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE....Read the following instructions....and THEN test...and then read the rest of the post....it will explain the "Jumper. UNPLUG FROM SHORE. Take your shore plug to the where the ATS is. You will need to use the Continuity Scale (OHMS) on the DVM. Disconnect the SHORE leads (terminals from the ATS. Use your DVM to determine WHICH these leads are. Hold the 50 AMP plug so the "rounded or D Shaped" pin is at the TOP. This is the GROUND. OK....put a meter lead on one of the SIDE pins....either one. Then the other meter lead to either the RED or BLACK. You should have a circuit or continuity. Then do the other side pin.... the bottom one is Neutral. It should have a circuit to WHITE. If you don't have a circuit here....then remove the Load Leads from the ATS. Try that again. You have GOT TO MAKE SURE that the flex conduit for each is correct. You NOT having power to the main panel is a major concern.... OK....did that not work on either one... NOW....you need to be careful. PUT SOME TAPE or a big wire nut over every wire... the RED and White and Black on each of the two cables. Start the Generator. You SHOULD, if the Generator is hooked up properly, be able to measure 120 VAC from the RED or the BLACK to Neutral or Ground. IF NOT....then you are going to have to remove the wire nuts from one set and find the Generator power. That is my ONLY conclusion.....and you are NOT the first to "reverse" the terminals. BUT YOU MUST IDENTIFY which is which....and make sure you wire it properly. If you have done this...and I am NOT demeaning your electrical expertise, then I can't imagine what is going on.... OK....here is the REST of the post explaining WHY the Jumper note is NOT for your hookup... Your Diplomat (model) did NOT come with an optional 220 VAC unit. My Camelot is a non tag....so 8KW unit. But the Tags with 3 AC's did come with a 10KW, which is a 220 or same as the Pedestal 50 Amps. So, we have the same (assuming yours is the 7.5KW) generator. Even if it was the lower rated.....6.3KW, it is WIRED the SAME....see the print... I have a Line 1 and Line 2 Genny leads. My Onan has a dual pole (120 VAC) breaker....so there ARE TWO power leads from the dual 35 Amp Circuit Breaker on the Onan. One is RED and the other is BLACK. The WHITE is a Neutral. If you measured the power, you will get 120 VAC from Line 1 and Line 2 (on the ATS Genny input) to both Ground and Neutral. This is normal and I assumed (know) that an ONQAN 7.5 KW unit in an earlier model would have been wired similarly. Here is a file that we have that was listed as a 2007 Diplomat AC layout. The ATS in the picture was the GOOD ONE....but Monaco got cheap and replaced the ESCO ES50M-65N with the cheaper IOTA. NOW....because this comes up, ESCO NOW recommends the LPT50BRD as the ES50M-65N got a LOT of complaints. It has AC coils and hums. Some can hear it in the bedroom and it was a source of warranty issues. ESCO bought out LYGHT (Richard's picture) and then recommends the LPT50BRD... SO....moving on. Look at the upper corner. Note how the wires are connected. I ASSUME that you have FOUR conductors coming into the ATS from the Generator. RED, BLACK and WHITE...and Green. The ESCO installation NOTE was intended for a SINGLE BREAKER GENERATOR. Your Generator has (or should have) a Dual breaker....so you get TWO 120 Legs (Line 1 and Line 2). A common or lower end 120 Generator would have only ONE....thus, you WOULD need to Jumper. Do NOT, IMHO, add the JUMPER. I don't know what it might do.... It MAY have tripped the Generator breaker. Check it. If you are not conversant with the electrical code and wire sizes and such..Look at the print. There is a Flex Conduit coming from your Genny to the the ATS. It says 6/3. That means that there are THREE conductors (carrying current)... and they are #6 Wire. Red, Black and White (Neutral). You have a FOURTH conductor...but it is NON current carrying or GROUND. SO, you SHOULD have 4 wires from the Genny. Therefore, the ESCO out of the box, with no adjustments to the "timing jumper" or a "110 Jumper from Hot 1 to Hot 2" is needed. Make sure you have it installed that way. 38040005 (DIAGRAM, 120V AC).pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Ok I have a 2007 diplomat with an onan 8000 and a lpt50brd switch. I just checked to confirm, but I have 120vac on both red and black legs from the generator. I DID NOT add a jumper. Sounds like you have a problem with the generator, generator breaker, or wiring. Maybe a mouse chewed the wire and moving it around finished it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 43 minutes ago, Walker said: Ok I have a 2007 diplomat with an onan 8000 and a lpt50brd switch. I just checked to confirm, but I have 120vac on both red and black legs from the generator. I DID NOT add a jumper. Sounds like you have a problem with the generator, generator breaker, or wiring. Maybe a mouse chewed the wire and moving it around finished it off? Talked to Jim. He has it wired correctly and is knowledgeable. He understands the jumper and why it is not required. The issue is that he has lost ONE leg when on Genny....but HAS that leg powered at the ATS. Shore is fine... As we we can noodle out on the phone and from his trouble shooting....he MOST LIKELY has an issue INSIDE the ATS. He is going to do some probing and troubleshooting. The Hot2 (left side terminals of the Right Coil) switches Line 2 correctly from Shore to Genny. The Hot1 (the right side set of contacts on the relay) work from Shore to Load (normally closed. BUT, the relay does NOT switch from Genny to Load. He is looking for a loose wire inside the ATS and will advise. Otherwise, it is defective and he is sending back. The ONE thing we discussed....Many vendors and ESCO is a great one, are having trouble tracing the lineage (supply chain) of their products. Remco has been especially picky and if you bought a pump on Amazon then they may or may not warranty it....it is suggested, and ESCO told me this, that you purchase from an Amazon vendor that IS a recognized ESCO dealer or distributor... Jim will post later on after he does should looking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idaho jim Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 This is an update of the IOTA replacement and installation of the ESCO 50BRD. After installation I didn't have 120 Vac on one leg using generator power (8Kw). I probed all connections relating to the area of concern and while probing connections I manually exercised the suspect relay several times. This manual actuation of the relay provided the electrical connections needed as operations of both power systems (line and generator) are now operating as designed. Per telecom with Tom Cherry, who is extremely knowledgeable and helpful, the problem and solution was discussed with ESCO engineering. ESCO and Tom Cherry both advised repeated operation and testing or send unit back if desired. It appears there was a misalignment of contacts either during shipment or installation. I have since tested the unit extensively (vibration, etc.) and will monitor as needed. The anomaly appears to been corrected so I am keeping the unit as opposed to sending it back. I would like to thank you all for your inputs and especially Tom Cherry and ESCO engineering for their support. Thank you ... Jim 2007 Diplomat 36PDQ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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