IOTA 50-R FAILURE - intermittent shore power - SAFETY & FIRE HAZARD

[Tom Wallis]

10 hours ago, dleeadkins said:

That is the switch I went with. I talked to their technical people and was satisfied with their product. As you noted, all cables line up. I have used this ATS for a year now. I think it is the best replacement option.

Thanks for the feedback. I checked it out pretty thoroughly and decided to order it.  I don't feel like it's so expensive that  I can't give it a try. I also looked very carefully at the Elkhart and I see a lot of difficult getting the wires where they need to be. I'll be installing the WFCO as soon as it arrives.

[Tom Wallis]

Update: The WFCO T57 arrived and I've installed it. It only took about an hour to install because the terminals are all so close to the same as the old IOTA. I ran it through it's paces with both ACs on shore power and on the generator and so far I'm very satisfied. My main apprehension was concerning the possible hum that was mentioned but it is absolutely silent. Best of all, no more IOTA and no more fire hazard. I'm a happy camper.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Tom Wallis

[cbr046]

It would be prudent to re-torque the terminal screws after a few weeks of use.

- bob

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, cbr046 said:

It would be prudent to re-torque the terminal screws after a few weeks of use.

- bob

Or have followed ESCO tech’s recommendations and used Green Loctite to reduce the need for quarterly PM of the terminals 

[CaptPat]

ATS501 Transfer Switch 01.HEICEarlier this week after a 7-day stay in Sandbridge VA for Labor Day I was unable to get the generator to power the coach for the trip home.  The GEN SET light on the Load Meter was dimly lit, none of the Power Status lights were lit. The generator was working fine, at least it sounded fine, however no power at the coach.  No codes at the switch on the generator, and the generator breaker was shut.  After several attempts restarting the generator with the same results we decided to travel home without air conditioning, the weather was reasonable so the 3-hour drive was not too bad. The generator uneventfully supplied power to the AC units on on the trip to the CG and SP worked fine at the CG for the preceding 7 days.

The thread on the IOTA transfer switch pre-disposed me to believe my transfer switch was the culprit.  The current switch is a Parallax ATS-501 switch that was installed in June 2014 after the original IOTA switch caught fire.  I opened the cover and checked that all the connectors were tight, I did not expect to find any loose connectors as I had checked them about a month earlier when troubleshooting some AC issues.  I did notice that the middle relay (see picture) was discolored by what I believe to be excess heat.  I also checked the connectors at the generator, they were all tight.

I tested the switch one source at a time, shore power and generator, and sure enough it would not transfer to the generator after the 30s delay time, additionally with the generator running the fault light on the switch was lit. In short the switch seemed stuck in the shore power position. The scant troubleshooting information on the switch cover says to repair the switch at an authorized dealer if this happens three times.  On about the 4th try the switch operated as expected -- I'm not putting up with a switch that might work properly 25% of the time. I’ve decided to replace the switch with a ESCO LPT50BRD.  I thought about repairing the current switch however, there isn’t much technical documentation available on the ATS 501 (Parallax has not responded to my inquiries), and there might be more than just a bad relay to replace. Without disassembly I can’t tell if the contactors are damaged.  Further, I’m sure I can replace the switch with a brand new one for much less than a dealer would charge to troubleshoot and repair the ATS 501.

My normal mode of operation is never have both the generator and shore power supplying power to the switch simultaneously.  When switching power sources I turn off major loads (e.g., AC units) and then remove the power source before switching to the alternate. This avoids potentially connecting two AC power sources that are not in phase with each other, this can lead to catastrophic damage, or excessive arcing across the contactors when the switch shifts.  In the Navy we called this a “dead bus” shift. I don’t have a suspected cause of the relay overheating.  

Edited September 11, 2022 by CaptPat
correct date

[Rikadoo]

Hey Tom, so i replaced my iota with the wfco… SUPER easy switch over! So im right now runnin the genny 1st with no load now, with both ac on wide open… being cautious i have the cover off the tranfere switcheverything is good except from the no load to now i find 2 resistors HOT. Was wondering if you have the ability to check yours.

BTW, they dont get any hotter than 134 degrees, and i measure both in an out legs of my genny an power to the coach, my read out say i pullin 31 amps an all the legs in an out are still ambient temps👍

[Tom Wallis]

1 hour ago, Rikadoo said:

Hey Tom, so i replaced my iota with the wfco… SUPER easy switch over! So im right now runnin the genny 1st with no load now, with both ac on wide open… being cautious i have the cover off the tranfere switcheverything is good except from the no load to now i find 2 resistors HOT. Was wondering if you have the ability to check yours.

BTW, they dont get any hotter than 134 degrees, and i measure both in an out legs of my genny an power to the coach, my read out say i pullin 31 amps an all the legs in an out are still ambient temps👍

Good job on the change over. I didn't test things quite as thoroughly as you are. After installing it I had it do some switching with no load and with the load of both ACs. Then I let both ACs run for a while on both the generator and shore. First with cover off and later with the cover on and I only checked for heat with my hand on the cover.  There was nothing I could detect either way.

I didn't think of checking things with a heat gun like you're doing. I'll give it a try tomorrow. I would expect resistors to get warm but I don't know what are the acceptable limits.

[Tom Wallis]

I went and checked it today. First let me say that I believe the board you can see with the cover off is just the generator start delay and always has the same load on it no matter what the load on the generator is. It just turns one of the big relays on and off.

That being said, I started the generator and turned on both ACs for about 15 minutes and took some readings with my heat gun. One of the resistors got up to 125 degrees. Again, I'm not an expert on this but I don't think there's anything to worry about on yours.

[Rikadoo]

Hey Tom, i cycled mine a couple times, i found that the only time the resistors heated up is with the generator is running. When im plugged into shore power they remain at ambient temp. I suspect they are mearly the resistance for the switching relay. Thanks for checkin the temp, i was just concerend about it being a new unit an its nice having someone else to compare notes with

[Tom Wallis]

Not a problem. 🙂

[cbr046]

On my generator-only-connects-for-a-second Surge Guard switch it was a 2W resistor on the control board that was discolored.  It had resistance (not open or short) but the value was unknown due to the discoloration.  Might have been the problem . . . . might have been something else.  I replaced the switch with the same model (standard switch, no protection) and the control board was different and in a different location inside the switch.  Tells you something about the old design. 

- bob

[96 EVO]

20 hours ago, Tom Wallis said:

I went and checked it today. First let me say that I believe the board you can see with the cover off is just the generator start delay and always has the same load on it no matter what the load on the generator is. It just turns one of the big relays on and off.

That being said, I started the generator and turned on both ACs for about 15 minutes and took some readings with my heat gun. One of the resistors got up to 125 degrees. Again, I'm not an expert on this but I don't think there's anything to worry about on yours.

Generator time delay board burned up on my ESCO switch.

I think the issue was the generator wouldn't run due to a fault, and I still had shore power on ( I don't do that anymore).

[Dr4Film]

Don't know which model ESCO switch you have, LPTBRD or the 65N.

The LPTBRD switch has the shore relay closed ALL the time as the default. Whereas I believe the 65N has both relays open until it detects which power source is being used. I am not positive, but I remember Bill Groves (RIP) stating something in regard to that.

Both have the time delay board for the generator so it will come up to speed and producing power PRIOR to closing the switch.

The caution has always been to remove all high amp loads BEFORE changing power sources. There has been nothing stating that one should remove the shore power completely before starting the generator.

I have always removed high amp loads prior to starting the generator.

The LPTBRD Transfer switch is still the original one in my previous Windsor so it's now 21 years old.

[Tom Cherry]

7 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Don't know which model ESCO switch you have, LPTBRD or the 65N.

The LPTBRD switch has the shore relay closed ALL the time as the default. Whereas I believe the 65N has both relays open until it detects which power source is being used. I am not positive, but I remember Bill Groves (RIP) stating something in regard to that.

Both have the time delay board for the generator so it will come up to speed and producing power PRIOR to closing the switch.

The caution has always been to remove all high amp loads BEFORE changing power sources. There has been nothing stating that one should remove the shore power completely before starting the generator.

I have always removed high amp loads prior to starting the generator.

The LPTBRD Transfer switch is still the original one in my previous Windsor so it's now 21 years old.

Well stated.  Turn off the AC.  Turn off the electric heat (water heater or AquaHot). Do not use the Microwave. If the House batteries are down….then the Charger will kick in.  Turn OFF the charger section   I think Richard is correct for the LYGHT LPT50BRD.  When it detects 120 voltage on the Genny line, I think it switches to Genny…after the time delay.

The ONLY time that I ever had an issue with my Genny was when I started the Genny with the Shore still plugged in and FORGOT to kill the AC first.  The Genny was not “up to speed” as there was a FLA (Full Load Amperage) on it due to the AC’s not being shut down and then their built in 120 second delay was bypassed.  The Genny “quit”.  Subsequent attempts….NADA.  Let it sit for about 15 minutes.  Started it with no load….let it run for a few minutes as penance for stressing it.  Brought on one load, as in staggered the AC’s and all was well.  That was 6 or so years ago.  My ESCO LPT50BRD is over 10 years old. That incident was the only time I ever had an issue….other than when I first got the Camelot and started the Genny to recharge the batteries after a night’s boondocking and DW wanted AC and Microwave and the charger was at FLA.  The 35 A breaker kicked out,  

So, if you understand and do the required changeover, there should be no issues.  My logic is that if you leave the shore on, which I rarely now do, and start the Genny, the shore still is providing power….and after the time delay, the ATS brings on the Genny.  BUT, if you forget to turn OFF the AC load, then you run the risk of an issue.

[Martinvz]

And another Iota bites the dust.

Just replaced the Iota with a Lyght/Esco as in the photos below.

one last thing: I have a Iota ATS in very good condition, no burn marks and works like a champ. it is of sale and going very very cheap, just pay S&H. Any Offers? Lol

Edited September 15, 2022 by Martinvz
Adding photos

[saflyer]

On 8/29/2022 at 7:20 PM, Tom Wallis said:

The Elkhart LPT50BRD has the shore power and generator connections on the opposite sides causing problems like Dennis Z ran into.

So unless someone knows of a problem with the WFCO I would be inclined to go with it just for the ease  of installation.

You can turn the LPT50BRD upside down to solve the problem of connections being on opposite side from those on IOTA. Checked with ESCO tech support and was told this is acceptable.

 

Ed         
‘05 HR Ambassador 

[Tom Cherry]

50 minutes ago, Martinvz said:

And another Iota bites the dust.

Just replaced the Iota with a Lyght/Esco as in the photos below.

one last thing: I have a Iota ATS in very good condition, no burn marks and works like a champ. it is of sale and going very very cheap, just pay S&H. Any Offers? Lol

I have known a few shysters, graduated with a guy that went to the dark side. He decided to go to law school, but was on probation due to forging his advisors signature on a multi course drop slip…opps.  Got caught.  He did get his JD….and was appointed as a judge and finally found his niche..  PI specialist.  He’d probably give me a 10% finder’s fee.  PM the name of whomever you give the IOTA to….  LOL
Your wiring looks nice…all the right colors. Where does the additional ground go?

[Martinvz]

That earth wire was in the Iota and goes behind the bin wall. I connected it because it was there.  I looked from below the end cap and could see it going to the middle of the coach. I left it at that intending to look in more detail to confirm that it terminates on the chassis.

Thanks for asking and adding to my to-do list …..

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

I would not want to have on my conscious that I gave a IOTA to someone who installed it on their coach and it caught fire and burned his coach down or the possible loss of life.  Lets get real folks.

[Bob Keating]

Robert:  In the future, please do a simple search before starting a topic that is common to many.  I used the IOTA in the search.  There is a 6 page topic specifically for it.  Your new thread is redundant and you also can get most of the information here by reading it.

I had to MERGE it as we are getting fragmented and have the same topic with different folks commenting all over the forum.

Thanks in advance.

Moderator END EDIT.

I just realized I have the notorious IOTA transfer switch on my 2009 Cayman. It is located in the front run bay, and it appears that there is very little room to maneuver the gen, panel, shore wiring. Is there a direct replacement or has anyone with the same coach changed this unit out? The WFCO, now Aterra, T-57 looks close, but the gen and panel are reversed.

Thanks,

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Tom Cherry
Redundant Thread - Merged with same topic

[Jim Clendenon]

Bob good morning, I just recently change mine out on my 2008 Monaco Dynasty Squire, after trying to find the controller switches to no avail. I ordered a 40450 Southwire Transfer Switch through Boat & RV Accessories they had the best price $ 671.00 free shipping it was easy to install and it was almost the identical unit with the exception of a few power cord connections. I receive in about a week, I just ordered the remote plug in unit that lets you know is the voltage is high/low or the polarity is incorrect from shore power. I how this helps, let me know if you have any question, feel free to call me if no answer just leave a message and I’ll call you back 985-705-3075  

 Jim Clendenon

[Bob Keating]

Thanks Jim, I will check this out. After further research I did find a Powermax PMTS-50 that is very similar.

Does anyone have any experience with this unit?

Bob,

[Tom Cherry]

There are several ATS listed and discussed in detail in this thread.  Specific instructions for installation and the "tips" also.  The most popular one is the ESCO LPT50BRD. There is a lot of information here.  

Good Luck.

[Bob Keating]

Tom, sorry I broke protocol!

I did search this topic extensively, and I did find the information about the ESCO switch. That switch would work, but the inputs and output are different from mine. The attached photo shows you what I am dealing with. The wiring has very short stub outs with little room to move the wiring.

I will do my best to post in the proper topic in the future.

[Skipjack]

Power Dynamics has one. 240v 50 amp

I used them in the past