Joel Sheriff Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 I had my air conditioner motor and capacitor replaced. The tech inadvertently turned off my inverter breaker and when I realized the breaker was off I turned it back on, I heard a lot of clicking and when I checked the EMS board I noticed that I wasn't getting any lights on the shedding side of the panel. I reset the inverter I unplugged and replugged the communication plug and I reset the pedestal breaker. I also tried the inverter and main breakers on the panel. I'm still not getting any lights or communication on the EMS panel and it's not allowing my air system and my hot water system to operate. Originally the Amp usage read 50A being used and 30 Amp incoming electrical power. After a few resets it shows the true Amp usage at 2 to 3 amps in having to use propane for heat and hot water. I'm also only getting 113A from the pedestal. I think I've tried everything but with my limited knowledge I'm asking this panel what I should continue to check. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Sometimes turning off / back on, your main battery disconnect can fix that issue, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Hutto Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Make sure all of your breakers are on... even the unused ones. On my '06 Dip, cutting the washer/dryer breaker off paralyzes the EMS. I had mine cut off because I don't have a W/D... took me a while to noodle that one out. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Disconnecting the batteries via the switches, and unplugging from the shoreline at the same time. No generator running.. Let sit 5 minutes. Just a bit more than previously suggested if this does not solve the issue. ----------------------------------------------------- Turn battery switches back on. Give another five minutes for things to settle down. Turn your switch back on at the door so your lights and normal 12 volt things work. Be sure your interior lights are nice and bright. Your house batteries could have gone down a lot with the breaker off if allowed to sit that way for a day or so. Low 12 volts can confuse electronics and the Load Shedding requires a good 12 volt signal. If the lights are nice and bright go ahead and proceed to the pedestal. Use a voltmeter to see if you have 220 volts between the long vertical holes. You can measure 120 volts to ground on each side but I just got bit by this one a few days ago. Nor shocked. Just found the RV park had wired the outlet for "50" amp usage but had just jumpered the outlet. That one had me eat my hat. Ok, IF you have the proper 240 volts, turn the breaker off, plug in, then turn the breaker on. Go inside and give things another 2-5 minutes to settle. Report back. Just now, myrontruex said: Disconnecting the batteries via the switches, and unplugging from the shoreline at the same time. No generator running.. Let sit 5 minutes. Just a bit more than previously suggested if this does not solve the issue. ----------------------------------------------------- Turn battery switches back on. Give another five minutes for things to settle down. Turn your switch back on at the door so your lights and normal 12 volt things work. Be sure your interior lights are nice and bright. Your house batteries could have gone down a lot with the breaker off if allowed to sit that way for a day or so. Low 12 volts can confuse electronics and the Load Shedding requires a good 12 volt signal. If the lights are nice and bright go ahead and proceed to the pedestal. Use a voltmeter to see if you have 220 volts between the long vertical holes. You can measure 120 volts to ground on each side but I just got bit by this one a few days ago. Nor shocked. Just found the RV park had wired the outlet for "50" amp usage but had just jumpered the outlet. That one had me eat my hat. Ok, IF you have the proper 240 volts, turn the breaker off, plug in, then turn the breaker on. Go inside and give things another 2-5 minutes to settle. Report back. As Scotty reported while I was typing. Be sure ALL breakers on the inside panel are on. Don't want to eat my hat on that one again either. Fortunately I had discovered that one on my unit while repairing the Washer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Joel, I still have the original A/C on my MH. Past summer, the front one wouldn't run. It would hum and I smelled wire. Not ready to go the path of a new unit, I bought the Soft Start for the A/C that I saw on the FMCA website. I installed it and the unit ran the rest of the summer. Bought another for the original rear unit. It says it makes the A/C able to start and run on 30A. Glad I did it. Gary 05 AMB DST Joel, I still have the original A/C on my MH. Past summer, the front one wouldn't run. It would hum and I smelled wire. Not ready to go the path of a new unit, I bought the Soft Start for the A/C that I saw on the FMCA website. I installed it and the unit ran the rest of the summer. Bought another for the original rear unit. It says it makes the A/C able to start and run on 30A. Glad I did it. Gary 05 AMB DST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, myrontruex said: Disconnecting the batteries via the switches, and unplugging from the shoreline at the same time. No generator running.. Let sit 5 minutes. Just a bit more than previously suggested if this does not solve the issue. ----------------------------------------------------- Turn battery switches back on. Give another five minutes for things to settle down. Turn your switch back on at the door so your lights and normal 12 volt things work. Be sure your interior lights are nice and bright. Your house batteries could have gone down a lot with the breaker off if allowed to sit that way for a day or so. Low 12 volts can confuse electronics and the Load Shedding requires a good 12 volt signal. If the lights are nice and bright go ahead and proceed to the pedestal. Use a voltmeter to see if you have 220 volts between the long vertical holes. You can measure 120 volts to ground on each side but I just got bit by this one a few days ago. Nor shocked. Just found the RV park had wired the outlet for "50" amp usage but had just jumpered the outlet. That one had me eat my hat. Ok, IF you have the proper 240 volts, turn the breaker off, plug in, then turn the breaker on. Go inside and give things another 2-5 minutes to settle. Report back. As Scotty reported while I was typing. Be sure ALL breakers on the inside panel are on. Don't want to eat my hat on that one again either. Fortunately I had discovered that one on my unit while repairing the Washer. If things do not come alive, start the generator and give it a couple of minutes to transfer and wake things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Joel, this past summer, my original front unit wouldn't start, it hummed and I smelled wire. Not ready for a new unit, I bought the Soft Start for A/Cs that I saw on the FMCA website. I installed it and the A/C ran the rest of summer. I bought one for the original rear unit. Glad I did. They are transferable. Gary 05 AMB DST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 While helping with yet another power issue I want to run something across the group tank. Perhaps we should build a troubleshooting tree that could be posted when someone has a problem. Such as, Step 1> Measure post voltages, and have the OP's respond Step 2> Look at display panel. Report findings Step 3> What appliances are working, and those that are not working. Or what outlets are not working. Step 4> Run generator and compare symptoms Step 5> Report Model numbers of Coach and year of course, Model numbers of automatic transfer panel, model of Inverter/converter Step 6> Post pictures of power cord reel area, transfter panel, and Converter/Inverter Step 7> Not to redirect this post but what do you think Tom? Perhaps move it to its own thread and have folks respond to it. I know we have at least one incredible tech writer here that might be encouraged to "write it up".. Hmmm, Bob, you know who I am speaking of?? This might be a good tool to go over at the Lazy Daze gathering. How to trace electrical problems. This diagram, even though it might gather more information than needed, could be expanded to chase down the BIRD issues that arise frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Sheriff Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 Ok, got a lot of info to try, I'll get to it in the next day or so ok so far with using propane. I'm in a 30 amp space so I will only get my 120 on reading the pedestal. I will shut everything down as suggested. I'll also read the difference when genny is on. Thanks all I'll report findings when done. I do have my engine block heater breaker off but it's been off since I bought the coach in 07. I'll turn it on as well Ok something new for thought... I didn't start the genny because I was still hooked up to shore but I did activate the prime down toggle and I heard a click on the back EMS and the lights on the shed side came alive. It read 50 Amp all lights on and 8 all draw but I didn't kick on the genny. I'll do that but wanted group to add this info to the hopper. Thanks Ok something new for thought... I didn't start the genny because I was still hooked up to shore but I did activate the prime down toggle and I heard a click on the back EMS and the lights on the shed side came alive. It read 50 Amp all lights on and 8 all draw but I didn't kick on the genny. I'll do that but wanted group to add this info to the hopper. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Joel Sheriff said: Ok, got a lot of info to try, I'll get to it in the next day or so ok so far with using propane. I'm in a 30 amp space so I will only get my 120 on reading the pedestal. I will shut everything down as suggested. I'll also read the difference when genny is on. Thanks all I'll report findings when done. You just said the magic word. This would be part of my future Troubleshooting diagram. With 30 amp shoreline you have a very limited resource. Your EMS system is likely working just fine and doing what you are experiencing. Genny should light everything up as well as a good 50 amp shoreline. Looking at your EMS panel and there should be some horizontal lights next to labels. One for example would be water heater. Air conditoners, water heaters, and washer dryers can be the first things dropped offline. When you are near your breaker panel you can hear those relays activate and deactivate sometimes. To conserve as much of that shoreline 30 amp as possible. Turn the water heater to 12 volts only. Leave the 120 switch off. Turn your charger down to 20 percent or even ten percent. You do not need it to be pumping out high currents. This of course makes little difference if batteries are fully charged. Switch refer to propane only and turn the ice maker off if you have one. You need to unload everything you can think of. The system monitors your usage over a three hour period approximately and if it sees you are right at 30 amps draw it will begin shedding more. It will limit you to about 80% of the 30 amps or about 24-25 amps. If you try to use a floor heater or a fireplace you will have more load shedding. I hope this makes sense. It is important to understand your systems and a lot of the information is in the owners manuals. After that, there are tons of youtubes and about 6GB of files available right here in the forum files. I believe there is one on the EMS panel on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Sheriff Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 I understand it all thanks and I've turned everything off so I only had about a 2 Amp draw on the meter. But... I just noticed I have a fuse in the closet behind the EMS labeled. Water pump and monitor panel... Could that panel mean ems panel and if so it was blown. I have to go to ace to get the fuse it's the larger one not the mini and I ran out replacing the last one this week. I'll keep this forum posted. Again thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Yep, that fuse certainly can be part of your EMS system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) If you mean the panel with lots of fuses in in that has nothing to do with the EMS. Those are basically "house" fuses. Those are all 12 volt fuses. Behind the metal panel that covers the breakers is a circuit board that does have a fuse but you are not in that area. Let me refine that. It does have fuses that supply power to the Panel for the water level, water heater, etc. But none of those fuses have anything to do with your 120 volt circuits. Those fuses may supply power for backlights on the panel. I haven't visited the schematic in awhile. However, a picture of your panel will help. But of course, always replace fuses that are blown. Glad you understand your system better now. Edited October 28, 2022 by myrontruex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Sheriff Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 The panel in the closet has 14 fuses (attached) the 5 fuse when blown also took out my bar Puck light. Both of them at once. Can't this box be part of the EMS panel if it takes out those lights and other labeled uses? Just asking Newest occurrence, went to replace the #5 fuse and it's shorting out. Blew two fuses. That's not good meaning there is a short somewhere in that line that the 5 fuse provides protection for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandick66 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 When you say the tech replaced the AC motor, are you talking about the blower/fan? If so, how did he access the fan motor? If it was from inside the coach, it’s possible he shorted some DC wiring in the overhead, hence the ceiling lights fuse keeps blowing. Another question - Did he test the AC when he completed the job? If not, that might be your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Dan, I think he has the issue of the AC and other 110 volt items resolved. He is on 30 amp shoreline and now has a handle on things getting load shedded. As for the fuse Joel, if you mean F5, it has nothing to do with the EMS. These coaches are complex and getting ones brain wrapped around what is 120 volts and what is 12 volts can be a bit of a mind boggle. Are you positive you are replacing the fuse with the same value? Does the fuse pop the moment you plug it in? Have you done any bulb changing or wiring changes in those circuits. Any new modifications that is. What other fuse is popping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Sheriff Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 Newest occurrence, went to replace the #5 fuse and it's shorting out. Blew two fuses. That's not good meaning there is a short somewhere in that line that the 5 fuse provides protection for? Yes it sparks and blows as soon as I touch the second prong of the fuse. I had an actuator put under my bed to help lift for storage area as it's getting to heavy. I put a toggle switch on the outside board and it was wired in to the wiring near the slide motor the guy found a positive and ground and spliced in . I think the guy may not have protected the wiring as well as it should have been and since it's under the bed I can't get to it since the actuator is in the closed position with no power going to it. The old rock and hard place. I need to some how jump that fuse get the actuator powered for a few seconds raise the bed and relocate the original wires. They may be shorting the fuse. I can't think of anything else, Nothing is newly wired or changed except the acuator. Can a shorted fuse be jumped without burning down the house? As for the other question about the ac. Yes it was the fan motor and capacitor and yes he tested it because his first attempt didn't work so he found a loose ground and wired properly then tested and it worked fine. Only after I found the inverter breaker off and reset everything did the #5 15amp see blow and caused the issue. The bar Puck lights go out with the same fuse. As for the other question about the ac. Yes it was the fan motor and capacitor and yes he tested it because his first attempt didn't work so he found a loose ground and wired properly then tested and it worked fine. Only after I found the inverter breaker off and reset everything did the #5 15amp see blow and caused the issue. The bar Puck lights go out with the same fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Joel, Fuse 5 is for the front ceiling lights, which are probably fluorescent. You also said the “bar puck light”. The fluorescents have been known to go bad and a bad or burned out or defective ballast has caused that. Now, I do NOT know how a tech would have found a line to the front light circuit under the bed. Try this. Turn OFF the Puck light at the switch. Turn off the small switch on each fluorescent fixture….assuming they have them as most do. Turn OFF the switch to the ceiling lights, Install a new fuse. Then if it doesn’t blow, turn ON the Puck. Still ok and it works, turn it OFF. Now turn on the ceiling lights. Still OK, then turn ON only ONE of the ceiling lights. If OK, then turn that one off….repeat for each one. You mAY have a bad ballast so that light, the one that blows the fuse, needs to stay off. SOMETIMES when the ballast goes, it will overload….other times, it just shuts off and the light doesn’t work. That's the only way to test the circuit. I can’t explain the actuator,…..but NO….never bypass or throw in a higher rated fuse. The fuse is protecting the wiring. If you overload with a larger fuse, then the wires get hot or heat up….think a TOASTER element. Then you know what could happen next…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Sheriff Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 As for the other question about the ac. Yes it was the fan motor and capacitor and yes he tested it because his first attempt didn't work so he found a loose ground and wired properly then tested and it worked fine. Only after I found the inverter breaker off and reset everything did the #5 15amp see blow and caused the issue. The bar Puck lights go out with the same fuse. Tom I've checked the other fluorescent lights in gallery, they work, front entry ceiling fluorescent is out and bar Puck lights are out. All other bathroom bedroom etc fluorescents are on. So the isolation is the front fluorescent and Puck lights and evidently he found that line under the bed that feeds those fixtures. So 1,2,3 as you described I'll close the two fixtures isolating the actuator under the bed which I can't get to because the actuator isn't responding. If the fuse blows with the actuator being the only thing on. I got my answer. As for the lights and ems issue. I unplugged the shore power put on the genny and it seems to be fine. All shed lights are on and getting proper genny power. I don't understand though. They got the power up to 121 volts at the pedestal and my progressive ind protector isn't giving any fault codes but it still isn't working at the pedestal with a full 30 amps... Any suggestions other than moving from this spot to a different one to see if it works. To continue, flipped the switch on the bar lights and front fluorescent and its still immediately upon the two blades touching blows the fuse. It has to be the actuator so now I have to figure out how to get under the bed with an the actuator connected but not raised and no power. Looks like I'm cutting a hole in the bed to undo the pins holding the rod. I'll keep you posted. Thank all for the assistance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 No safe way to bypass a fuse and you are suspecting the issue is under the bed any way you need to figure out how to get there. A couple of pictures of the bed area would help. You may be able to pull the carpet off the base and find a way to remove one complete end panel. When chasing a short, use a 12 volt test light across the fuse terminals. You may need some small alligator clips to set things up. The test light will glow full bright while the short is there. As soon as the short is relieved the light will go out. Assuming you do not have things like other lights still in the on position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Sheriff Posted October 29, 2022 Author Share Posted October 29, 2022 To continue, flipped the switch on the bar lights and front fluorescent and its still immediately upon the two blades touching blows the fuse. It has to be the actuator so now I have to figure out how to get under the bed with an the actuator connected but not raised and no power. Looks like I'm cutting a hole in the bed to undo the pins holding the rod. I'll keep you posted. Thank all for the assistance I know exactly where the actuator is positioned. I'm going to take my multi tool and cut a small square in the base and try to pull the pin holding the actuator in place the just straight irons to put the square back on under the mattress. A PIA but doable. I'm also almost certain I have switched off the few lights that were on that circuit. I hope. To be continued. Thanks again all, will post detailed resolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Sheriff Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 To continue, I moved to a different space in the park with a50 Amp pedestal. I plugged in and the shed lights on the EMS board are still out. Is it possible it wasn't the power line and is the #5 fuse in the closet that's powering the bar Puck lights and front fluorescent as well as where I think the short is coming from under the bed by the actuator. We thought the low volt pedestal was the culprit? Guess not the only culprit. Agree or other thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Joel Sheriff said: To continue, I moved to a different space in the park with a50 Amp pedestal. I plugged in and the shed lights on the EMS board are still out. Is it possible it wasn't the power line and is the #5 fuse in the closet that's powering the bar Puck lights and front fluorescent as well as where I think the short is coming from under the bed by the actuator. We thought the low volt pedestal was the culprit? Guess not the only culprit. Agree or other thoughts? Look at fuse 14. 10A. You had a water pump issue a week or so ago. Most likely fuse 14 is the 12 VDC for the Intellitec EMS. THE EMS Brain is inside and behind the cover plate for the main AC panel and is a printed circuit board device there. Myron advised to remove power and let it reset. If if was not getting power, as in the 12 VDC, then it is still dead. If the system is dead, then all the controlled devices will NOT work. That includes the Air Conditioners/Heat Pumps. Each is controlled by a normally open relay. No incoming DC power…..none of the control relays will close….thus inoperable. At one time, you had a Progressive HW50 Installed. If you had low voltage, it would be displaying a code. Your unit had no remote, so you will have to read it directly. If you see E0 and the line voltages and amps, then all is well. The Intellitec’s remote only gives you status and tells you it is ready to shed if you overload. It does not measure or protect you from bad voltage like your Progessive. If fuse 14 is LOOKS ok….try a new one or swap, NO JOY…then the issue may be the 3 amp fuse in the Intellitec unit inside the AC cabinet or a bad remote or a defective EMS. Your inverter is NOT on the EMS as far as shedding goes, so the Magnum remote should be lighted and look normal. Your convenience outlets are wired through the GCFI. If the magnum is “charging” or at FLOAT then you have power. If your microwave works, you have power. If the magnum says INVERTING….you have a problem in the pedestal or your HW50 may be in a FAULT mode due to any of the error codes. Bottom line, you need to make sure fuse 14 is OK….if it blows, it will kill the EMS and all controlled AC circuits are OFF. NOW ONE TEST. Unplug 50 amp power. Start the Genny. The GENERATOR light should come on. Test the front AC. Test the back AC. IF that works, then it MAY a mean that the Generator 12 VDC signal is supplying 12VDC to operetta the EMS. I cannot determine that is or if it will work from the trouble shooting Guide in the installation manual. BUT, you can exist. Do NOT run the Hot water heater on AC nor do any laundry…..otherwise you might overload. Past that, you need to be able to use a Voltmeter and do DC testing and LIVE AC Testing and have the electrical skills to do that safely. If not, get a qualified tech. The bed actuator issue is puzzling, there would be no reason for a front lighting circuit, fuse 5, to even have a power line under the bed. The tech should have verified where the power was coming from. If the current draw was excessive, then ran a fused battery lead, with the proper wire size, to the area and identified where the fuse is…..and NOT under the bed, so you knew where to look, That might be another trouble shooting issue….as well as identifying WHY the front lights have a dead short now. Realize this is not a definitive answer or how to fix, but with the info provided, it is a reasonable answer. Good luck. Keep the group apprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Sheriff Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 I'll be checking #14 see for certain. As for the front fluorescent the is a wall toggle in the bedroom as well as the entrance toggle running that one light so they may have something under the bed for that box? As for genny, already done and gen overrides all and the shed lights on board all light, the ac and hwh all work on genny power. Have been using propane for hwh and furnace for heat. Haven't needed thank goodness. In high desert near Palmdale CA so evenings are in the 40's. So far no error codes on hwh50 120 to122 coming in both legs. All breakers have been reset including the main. Micro and entire galley work fine. All inverter plugs working including bathroom GFCI. Everything still sees to lead to short under bed in the actuator. Am going to cut through platform to pull pin holding the actuator bar and release platform. Thanks and to be continued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 45 minutes ago, Joel Sheriff said: I'll be checking #14 see for certain. As for the front fluorescent the is a wall toggle in the bedroom as well as the entrance toggle running that one light so they may have something under the bed for that box? As for genny, already done and gen overrides all and the shed lights on board all light, the ac and hwh all work on genny power. Have been using propane for hwh and furnace for heat. Haven't needed thank goodness. In high desert near Palmdale CA so evenings are in the 40's. So far no error codes on hwh50 120 to122 coming in both legs. All breakers have been reset including the main. Micro and entire galley work fine. All inverter plugs working including bathroom GFCI. Everything still sees to lead to short under bed in the actuator. Am going to cut through platform to pull pin holding the actuator bar and release platform. Thanks and to be continued. If you don’t have VOM, get a test light at a big box auto store. Off line I’ll help you understand how to use the EMS is not getting 12 VDC power. Must be a sneak circuit from the Genny the bedroom deal may be totally unrelated. Must figure out which random circuit he used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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