rear tires rubbing on H frame

[96 EVO]

Preston, that picture was taken with your suspension at 'ride height' ? 

[Preston W]

I agree I'll probably head over to Spectrac. I did call Purcell's truck tire center in Phoenix and several others and they don't mess with spacers at all. all they do is change tires and sell shocks so I'll head over to spectrac at some point because I think it does need to be looked at.  Just as a point of Interest I worry about anything rubbing on the sidewall of the Goodyear tire but years ago on our Safari.  we had two michelins blow out because of a faulty valve extender and low inflation and the guy at the tire shop  when we changed to  Goodyear didn an experiment. he had me stand on an empty Michelin tire sidewall and I crushed it down, weighing 200 lbs.  then he had me stand on a Goodyear that was just laying on the floor and it completely held my weight and barely went down. I was very impressed with the strength  of the sidewall. Thanks

[Gary Cole]

I might consider replacing the offending bolt with a flathead bolt with the head on the tire side. The head would be flush with the flange as it would seat in a countersunk bevel.  Countersinks are available which match the angle of the bolt head. No fancy tools other than heavy duty drill required. Hard to tell from the picture however it might give you 3/4" or more clearance. A serrated blind nut on the tire side would be also be another candidate for consideration.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Gary Cole

[Preston W]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Preston, that picture was taken with your suspension at 'ride height' ? 

Good question not sure the exact elevation.  I may have had it higher than normal because I was lubricating the underside of the coach and checking the oil level in the differential. I'll have to check that out again when I have the rig out from our garage. 

[96 EVO]

Good idea!

Maybe it rubs when you move it with the leveling system raised!

[Happycarz]

The bolt head doesn’t move in relation to the tire. The bracket with culprit bolt is welded to the axle. The trailing arm, that the bolt holds the in place, can pivot about the bolt as the suspension moves up and down, but the bracket can’t move. Hence, the bolt head cannot move in relation to the tire.  Also, there is no tire flex at top of tire by the bolt.

⅜  - ½” spacers will offset the wheel and tire from the bolt head.

Massey’s RV & Diesel Repair has been working on Monaco’s for years and a call to them might be in order. The long time service manager retired two years ago, so they might have an answer, and maybe not.  When calling them, if they say bring it in to look at it, then they don’t know the answer off the top of their head and just pass.  
Kaiser Brake & Alignment in Eugene, Oregon is another one worth calling. If you get an old timer he might just know the spacer you need.

[96 EVO]

13 minutes ago, Happycarz said:

The bolt head doesn’t move in relation to the tire. The bracket with culprit bolt is welded to the axle. The trailing arm, that the bolt holds the in place, can pivot about the bolt as the suspension moves up and down, but the bracket can’t move. Hence, the bolt head cannot move in relation to the tire.  Also, there is no tire flex at top of tire by the bolt.

 

Ah!

Got it!

[Guest Ray Davis]

Harry made that so clear, thank you, Harry.   🎯

[Gary Cole]

33 minutes ago, Happycarz said:

The bolt head doesn’t move in relation to the tire.

That's true Ben. The head of the  bolt appears to be too close to the tire. In the picture it seems to be polished by the tire.  Which is why I suggested the two possible solutions. Spacers would work however they seem to be a rube Goldberg solution which one would have to explain and keep track of every time a tire was removed

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Gary Cole

[Ivan K]

Is it only on one side of the axle? If so, I would compare the inner rim offsets or part numbers. Even the drum mounting surface thickness if that one was replaced in the past. Comparing number of lug threads past the nut would show that. It's just wrong to need a spacer on a stock setup with correct tires. The studs could become too short with a spacer too, depends.

[Guest Ray Davis]

 

Perhaps Monaco inadvertently welded things just a tad off, or a slightly different set of wheels was used.   At this point, there is no one to blame.

I would ask the tire shop to make sure the wheel studs are long enough to accept a spacer and that the tires are still safe. Then move on down the road.

Maybe it has a spacer already, and the tire shop put it between the wheels when it was supposed to go on first. That should be easy to see with a flashlight.

 

[jacwjames]

Looking at your Bio it says you've owned this Dynasty since 2001, am I reading that correctly??

If so you have not had this problem till now, you would have had two other sets of tires installed during that time.

Just throwing this out there>>>   One thing you might check is to make sure there are no weld failures on your axle supports, over the years I've seen some pretty bad failures that could result in the axle shifting. 

Earlier this year I found a hair  line crack on mine that if not corrected would have gotten worse in a short period of time.  Mine was on the passenger side, inside support.  When I cleaned up in preparation to weld I found it was pretty much all the way through, only a little bit of good metal not cracked. But once you loose one of the two the second one takes all the weight and escalates the failure. 

[Dennis N - 2005 Windsor]

Ivan has a good point - "Comparing number of lug threads past the nut" - if you count threads or measure how far the wheel studs stick out of the nut when the tire is mounted, it will tell you if the wheel studs can accommodate a spacer and how thick of a spacer.  If the two sides are different, then something in the assembly is different between the two sides - either the thickness of the drum or a spacer is on one side and not the other.

Dennis Nelson - 2005 Windsor

[Tom Cherry]

14 hours ago, Preston W said:

I agree I'll probably head over to Spectrac. I did call Purcell's truck tire center in Phoenix and several others and they don't mess with spacers at all. all they do is change tires and sell shocks so I'll head over to spectrac at some point because I think it does need to be looked at.  Just as a point of Interest I worry about anything rubbing on the sidewall of the Goodyear tire but years ago on our Safari.  we had two michelins blow out because of a faulty valve extender and low inflation and the guy at the tire shop  when we changed to  Goodyear didn an experiment. he had me stand on an empty Michelin tire sidewall and I crushed it down, weighing 200 lbs.  then he had me stand on a Goodyear that was just laying on the floor and it completely held my weight and barely went down. I was very impressed with the strength  of the sidewall. Thanks

@Mike Farquharson What did you finally DO?  A followup and pictures and description would be great.

@Preston W Hope Mike chimes in with an answer.

This is a fairly old, in "Board Years" topic dating back to June.  After rereading and looking at the pictures, I would suggest, to either one of you, assuming Mike hasn't resolved it, calling Source Engineering ( https://sourcerv.com/ ).  Ask to speak to Scott Zimmer.  Tell him that Tom Cherry from the NEW Monacoer's Board suggested that you call him.  Ask him if he has a moment to talk or you can email him pictures.  I would do a screen shot, if you can't download Mike's pictures.  Ask him about it.  He knows more about the Monaco Suspensions and the changes and the subtle diffrerences since he was in Engineering and Chassis for many years.

He might say...grind off the top of the bolt.  As the Engineering Manager for a fastener company for several years....my comment would be DON'T DO THAT.

One WAY to handle it, but you need a special shop that has a laser alignment is to verify that the rear Axle is lined up.  My 2009 was out...maybe 3/8".  Josams fixed that in 2010.  

THE OTHER SOURCE....You can call Josams in Orlando.  Again, ask for Barry and then use my name and ask him if you can email your picture and Mike's.  He will tell you what HE would do.  I SUSPECT he would say...check the Rear Axle alignment...  then if it is OK....then add spacers.

The "realignment" of the axle is actually done by heating (Josam's has patented and proprietary induction heaters).  The reason the axle is out..  The welder heated up the mount way to hot when welding.  When it cooled, that one side pushed the axle out of alignment.  If the welder had welded each side...a bit and then back and forth or used the right setting, then the Mounts and the Jig that Monaco had it in (Chassis Shop), the Axle would have been aligned.  The amount of misalignment...if that is the issue varies and some have been as much as an INCH off.  BUT, typically, you see excessive tire wear.  If your tires are wearing OK....then maybe the contour of the tires is slightly different.

Bottom line...the realignment at shops without the Josam heaters consists of welding or applying beads to the OTHER SIDE (the one that was NOT overheated), then they quench it with oil or water....that warps it back into place.  OPPS....you also have to do special things to keep the Welder from backfeeding the electronics.  Then you also have to change the rear differential oil (might need that anyway).  The Josam's induction heater apply spot and intense heat...so no worries about welding or overheating the rear fluid.

That's my take...after reading again and having different thoughts.

Good Luck...

[Preston W]

14 hours ago, Gary Cole said:

I might consider replacing the offending bolt with a flathead bolt with the head on the tire side. The head would be flush with the flange as it would seat in a countersunk bevel.  Countersinks are available which match the angle of the bolt head. No fancy tools other than heavy duty drill required. Hard to tell from the picture however it might give you 3/4" or more clearance. A serrated blind nut on the tire side would be also be another candidate for consideration.

An excellent  suggestion and I  thought if I could reduce the size of that nut bolt I could buy some peace of mind. I'll mention that to Spectrac when I take the unit over there. To drill that countersink with a drill press or heavy duty drill might be above my pay grade.

[Preston W]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

@Mike Farquharson What did you finally DO?  A followup and pictures and description would be great.

@Preston W Hope Mike chimes in with an answer.

This is a fairly old, in "Board Years" topic dating back to June.  After rereading and looking at the pictures, I would suggest, to either one of you, assuming Mike hasn't resolved it, calling Source Engineering ( https://sourcerv.com/ ).  Ask to speak to Scott Zimmer.  Tell him that Tom Cherry from the NEW Monacoer's Board suggested that you call him.  Ask him if he has a moment to talk or you can email him pictures.  I would do a screen shot, if you can't download Mike's pictures.  Ask him about it.  He knows more about the Monaco Suspensions and the changes and the subtle diffrerences since he was in Engineering and Chassis for many years.

He might say...grind off the top of the bolt.  As the Engineering Manager for a fastener company for several years....my comment would be DON'T DO THAT.

One WAY to handle it, but you need a special shop that has a laser alignment is to verify that the rear Axle is lined up.  My 2009 was out...maybe 3/8".  Josams fixed that in 2010.  

THE OTHER SOURCE....You can call Josams in Orlando.  Again, ask for Barry and then use my name and ask him if you can email your picture and Mike's.  He will tell you what HE would do.  I SUSPECT he would say...check the Rear Axle alignment...  then if it is OK....then add spacers.

The "realignment" of the axle is actually done by heating (Josam's has patented and proprietary induction heaters).  The reason the axle is out..  The welder heated up the mount way to hot when welding.  When it cooled, that one side pushed the axle out of alignment.  If the welder had welded each side...a bit and then back and forth or used the right setting, then the Mounts and the Jig that Monaco had it in (Chassis Shop), the Axle would have been aligned.  The amount of misalignment...if that is the issue varies and some have been as much as an INCH off.  BUT, typically, you see excessive tire wear.  If your tires are wearing OK....then maybe the contour of the tires is slightly different.

Bottom line...the realignment at shops without the Josam heaters consists of welding or applying beads to the OTHER SIDE (the one that was NOT overheated), then they quench it with oil or water....that warps it back into place.  OPPS....you also have to do special things to keep the Welder from backfeeding the electronics.  Then you also have to change the rear differential oil (might need that anyway).  The Josam's induction heater apply spot and intense heat...so no worries about welding or overheating the rear fluid.

That's my take...after reading again and having different thoughts.

Good Luck...

I appreciate Tom Cherry's expertise in contacts he is very knowledgeable.  I haven't done anything yet. just looking at options but we'll report back with photos and descriptions. I suppose I'll probably have to replace the rear tires as well once I get the rubbing problem fixed. 

[Preston W]

On 12/1/2023 at 5:24 PM, Ray Davis said:

I might go to a truck tire shop and see about getting a spacer installed.  At least have them look at it.

I think that's the ticket. I was looking back at some of the other posts and solutions and one gentleman had a half inch tire spacer on either side and I think that would do well and wouldn't cause the tire to hit the outside Fender at all. Maybe I can get them to order it in advance  to save me on two trips. I like that other suggestion of getting a flush mounted bolt head countersunk.

13 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Looking at your Bio it says you've owned this Dynasty since 2001, am I reading that correctly??

If so you have not had this problem till now, you would have had two other sets of tires installed during that time.

Just throwing this out there>>>   One thing you might check is to make sure there are no weld failures on your axle supports, over the years I've seen some pretty bad failures that could result in the axle shifting. 

Earlier this year I found a hair  line crack on mine that if not corrected would have gotten worse in a short period of time.  Mine was on the passenger side, inside support.  When I cleaned up in preparation to weld I found it was pretty much all the way through, only a little bit of good metal not cracked. But once you loose one of the two the second one takes all the weight and escalates the failure. 

I'm going to have to get back under the rig I just spent about a week under there lubricating and checking differential oil but now but I wasn't looking for any cracks in the frame and oil and Road Grime can really cover up some of that stuff.   I'll have to go back and do that  and you're right, I never had this problem before with any other tires.. just since  this set which is 3 years old.

[Paul J A]

11 hours ago, Preston W said:

I think that's the ticket. I was looking back at some of the other posts and solutions and one gentleman had a half inch tire spacer on either side and I think that would do well and wouldn't cause the tire to hit the outside Fender at all. Maybe I can get them to order it in advance  to save me on two trips. I like that other suggestion of getting a flush mounted bolt head countersunk.

I'm going to have to get back under the rig I just spent about a week under there lubricating and checking differential oil but now but I wasn't looking for any cracks in the frame and oil and Road Grime can really cover up some of that stuff.   I'll have to go back and do that  and you're right, I never had this problem before with any other tires.. just since  this set which is 3 years old.

"Some" Speedco locations will "rent" the use of their pits on an hourly basis.  Where are you located?

[Preston W]

11 minutes ago, Paul J A said:

"Some" Speedco locations will "rent" the use of their pits on an hourly basis.  Where are you located?

11 minutes ago, Paul J A said:

"Some" Speedco locations will "rent" the use of their pits on an hourly basis.  Where are you located?

Carefree, Arizona,  next to Scottsdale

On 12/1/2023 at 5:24 PM, Ray Davis said:

I might go to a truck tire shop and see about getting a spacer installed.  At least have them look at it.

I think that's the ticket. I was looking back at some of the other posts and solutions and one gentleman had a half inch tire spacer on either side and I think that would do well and wouldn't cause the tire to hit the outside Fender at all. Maybe I can get them to order it in advance  to save me on two trips. I like that other suggestion of getting a flush mounted bolt head countersunk.

[Paul J A]

20 minutes ago, Preston W said:

Carefree, Arizona,  next to Scottsdale

I think that's the ticket. I was looking back at some of the other posts and solutions and one gentleman had a half inch tire spacer on either side and I think that would do well and wouldn't cause the tire to hit the outside Fender at all. Maybe I can get them to order it in advance  to save me on two trips. I like that other suggestion of getting a flush mounted bolt head countersunk.

Take a look at the Fastenal; https://www.fastenal.com/?utm_campaign=Brand&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_term=fastenal&utm_content=3326675-e1-ng-me-c14651903223-g127606662175-a546015208472-uCj0KCQiA67CrBhC1ARIsACKAa8Q4vClWxcRKVp9npPL9hDJrZp4LNmj3IeR2_wk4RiVJyzKLFrjkYJAaAvFeEALw_wcB-cat10305863-kfastenal-mod&gclid=Cj0KCQiA67CrBhC1ARIsACKAa8Q4vClWxcRKVp9npPL9hDJrZp4LNmj3IeR2_wk4RiVJyzKLFrjkYJAaAvFeEALw_wcB

Go to a NAPA and also a Fastenal shop, show them the pictures. Bet they have a fastener suggestion for you to use to resolve this issue. You have --9-- other lugs on the wheel. Remove the one rubbing until you acquire a new replacement. I would.

[Preston W]

2 minutes ago, Paul J A said:

Take a look at the Fastenal; https://www.fastenal.com/?utm_campaign=Brand&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_term=fastenal&utm_content=3326675-e1-ng-me-c14651903223-g127606662175-a546015208472-uCj0KCQiA67CrBhC1ARIsACKAa8Q4vClWxcRKVp9npPL9hDJrZp4LNmj3IeR2_wk4RiVJyzKLFrjkYJAaAvFeEALw_wcB-cat10305863-kfastenal-mod&gclid=Cj0KCQiA67CrBhC1ARIsACKAa8Q4vClWxcRKVp9npPL9hDJrZp4LNmj3IeR2_wk4RiVJyzKLFrjkYJAaAvFeEALw_wcB

Go to a NAPA and also a Fastenal shop, show them the pictures. Bet they have a fastener suggestion for you to use to resolve this issue. You have --9-- other lugs on the wheel. Remove the one rubbing until you acquire a new replacement. I would.

Thank you. 

[Paul J A]

3 minutes ago, Paul J A said:

Take a look at the Fastenal; https://www.fastenal.com/?utm_campaign=Brand&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_term=fastenal&utm_content=3326675-e1-ng-me-c14651903223-g127606662175-a546015208472-uCj0KCQiA67CrBhC1ARIsACKAa8Q4vClWxcRKVp9npPL9hDJrZp4LNmj3IeR2_wk4RiVJyzKLFrjkYJAaAvFeEALw_wcB-cat10305863-kfastenal-mod&gclid=Cj0KCQiA67CrBhC1ARIsACKAa8Q4vClWxcRKVp9npPL9hDJrZp4LNmj3IeR2_wk4RiVJyzKLFrjkYJAaAvFeEALw_wcB

Go to a NAPA and also a Fastenal shop, show them the pictures. Bet they have a fastener suggestion for you to use to resolve this issue. You have --9-- other lugs on the wheel. Remove the one rubbing until you acquire a new replacement. I would.

https://www.google.com/search?q=22.5+wheel+spacer&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS1020US1020&oq=22.5+wheel+spacer&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjINCAQQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAUQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAYQABiGAxiABBiKBdIBCDY5MzVqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=22.5+wheel+spacer&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS1020US1020&oq=22.5+wheel+spacer&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjINCAQQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAUQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAYQABiGAxiABBiKBdIBCDY5MzVqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Mike Farquharson]

HI every one , h frame was ok tires were inflated to 100 PSI motor home was empty , ended up having spacers machined to .250 and used 2 of the plastic spacers that go between the wheels to center the wheels because the axle was welded 1/8 inch to one side. Went with 1/4 inch spacers because the lug nuts would not let me go any wider . It seams to have fixed it as it does not rub.  Thanks 

[Preston W]

24 minutes ago, Mike Farquharson said:

HI every one , h frame was ok tires were inflated to 100 PSI motor home was empty , ended up having spacers machined to .250 and used 2 of the plastic spacers that go between the wheels to center the wheels because the axle was welded 1/8 inch to one side. Went with 1/4 inch spacers because the lug nuts would not let me go any wider . It seams to have fixed it as it does not rub.  Thanks 

Amazing to hear that slight 1/8 inch mistake on the axle welding led to the problems but  you seem to have really had a grip on what it takes to fix it. I do see one other Monaco owner had Half Inch spacers and solved the problem but it looks like the stud size is not the same on all of them. Since my  problem seemed  to have developed since the last tire change  I'm even wondering if somebody took off spacers that were on the axle to mount the new set of tires. don't know but we'll have it checked out.

[Oilcan]

Mike Ihad the same issue with the passengers side on my 99 Windsor upon checking for the cause I found that someone had installed the spacer between the duals instead of behind the inside wheel which caused the inside dual to rub on the exact same bolt as your picture indicates Idont know if this is a common issue with 98/99 coaches but there have been posts regarding this on Irv2 on the monaco owners forumwhat is required is a 1/4 steel spacer between the wheels and the drum assembly