rear tires rubbing on H frame

[Mike Farquharson]

HI I was hoping find a solution to this problem.

1998 dynasty 34' wheels are factory as are the tires 295/75/22.5 , axle is welded to H frame I bought it 1 1/2 years ago did not notice the rubbing have ben remodeling it only put 300 miles on it sence I got it.  picture is of drivers side passanger side shows very lite marks but has not groved it. tires at 90 psi it lookes like i could put 1/4" spacers as the lugs are long enough , Any ideas .

 

Thanks Mike

 

[hex_nut]

Mike

Another member with the same vintage coach was having the same issue (I do not remember if it was here or on IRV2).  He solved the issue by having the tire shop install spacers behind the wheels.  Good luck.  I also wonder if installing a slighter narrower tire would solve the issue (11.00R22.5).

Richard

[Dr4Film]

The steel wheel is rubbing on the frame, not the tire. Just switching tire size will not change how the wheel is mounted.

[DavidL]

I would:

Ensure that the tires are what was originally spec'd for the vehicle

Ensure that the wheel has the proper offset

Does the problem happen on both drivers and passenger side?  If not, then possibly the axle was bolted / welded off center.

Yes, a wheel spacer could help.  But I would research the why is this happening before putting on a band aid.  I assume this hasn't been the case over the years...something changed.  Would be good to know what that is.

Don't forget with a wheel spacer, the wheels will be further outboard towards the fender.  Ensure you have clearance there for that.

Don't drive much with how it is.  It can be a safety hazard and certainly do much more damage if you get a blow out.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by DavidL

[hex_nut]

Richard

I think you missed the part in that picture where the bolt head has cut a groove in the side of that Toyo tire.

The other Richard.

[Tom Cherry]

You need to do a four corner weight check.  There is a placard or label near the driver’s seat on the side of a “console” or maybe in a closet…..or you can download a 2000 Dynasty brochure.  You have an axle that has a max rating  of 20,000 pounds or you need 5000 pounds per tire (in a dual configuration).  

You are too low for the required rating.  I would run 95 - 100.  See the inflation table.  You also did not specify the Load Range.  F maxes out for your axle and G allows you to go higher.  You did not specify if you were fully loaded or whatever.  Folks can easily overload a MH….by cramming all the heavy stuff in one bay…thinking (i did it….). This thing is a tank….it will carry anything.  WRONG.

Bump UP the TP to 95 - 100…..COLD as in the early AM before any sunlight hits the tires.  That is usually considered the “temperature” for COLD INFLATION.  Anything else whilst driving might be a guess.  Do the weight routine.  Down load a 2001 Dynasty manual (on the Monaco site) if you didn’t get a manual….the 2000 is MIA.

My first thought is you are way underinflated or way too heavy in the rear.  I carried a goodly supply (DW thought there were no grocery stores outside of NC and bought cases of canned goods and enough water to cross a desert. I put them up front….but my front axle is the “puny” one as in excess load carrying.  I had to moved the stuff back and have only lightweight/bulky items up front.

You SHOULD NOT need to add spacers….do the above….

YES…I saw the groove.  If someone swapped rims?  Maybe.  Rear end heavy and tire ain’t pumped up enough….see sbove

 

 

[Dr4Film]

Yup, sure did!

When I read the OP's description where he stated that "the picture is of drivers side passenger side shows very lite marks but has not grooved it."

Certainly looks grooved to me in the photo with the blue line around the tire but photos can be deceiving. That' why I totally missed seeing it. I thought the edge of the wheel was causing the bolt on the frame to be shiny.

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

[96 EVO]

Rubbing that close to the bead, I'm wondering if a slightly narrower tire would even help 🤔.

Unless you find something that has shifted, spacers may be your only move.

[Gary Cole]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

You SHOULD NOT need to add spacers….do the above….

Tom is right on here. Something has changed and what that was needs to be investigated and corrected and not remedied with a band aid solution.

[Jdw12345]

Worn bushings on the side to side tracking rod….. maybe 

[Mike Farquharson]

Thank you for your ideas, wheels are accuride # 28408 offser 6.6" part # says 8.25 width date code on weels 07/97 tire sizing matches what posted in motorhome , h frame welds look good,tryed to move axle hub with a 6' bar and no movement, measured hub face to bolt head at 11 3/4"  and wheel face to tire and got 11 7/16 not enough room ?

I will pull passanger tire off tomarrow if I can find a jack stand

I ment 11 13/16 

[Happycarz]

By the looks of the wear on the bolt head, the previous set of tires had been rubbing for some time.  Hmmm, the former owner must have forgotten to mention it to you!

[Tom Cherry]

49 minutes ago, Mike Farquharson said:

Thank you for your ideas, wheels are accuride # 28408 offser 6.6" part # says 8.25 width date code on weels 07/97 tire sizing matches what posted in motorhome , h frame welds look good,tryed to move axle hub with a 6' bar and no movement, measured hub face to bolt head at 11 3/4"  and wheel face to tire and got 11 7/16 not enough room ?

I will pull passanger tire off tomarrow if I can find a jack stand

I ment 11 13/16 

I would not trust any major surgery or “brainstorm” to me….perhaps others….  Do the basics.  I’m hoping that some Dynasty owners….maybe late 1990’s to early 2000’s can chime in. My suggestions are this.

Do the weighing and figure out your corner weights.  Set the proper cold pressure to that PSI.  You have NOT commented if it is a problem on both sides for just one.  If it is only on one side, verify rims/wheel numbers.  Folks like our chassis Guru @vanwill52 might have a moment to read.  He has a 2000 Dynasty.  He may have the same wheels.  Once you are satisfied that you have the OEM stock wheels……then proceed.

Swap wheels, side to side.  Spray paint the shiny bolt and drive it.  See if it rubs.  I would put a strip of duct tape (clean tire sidewall) or even spray white paint on the groove and then drive 50 miles or so.  Pop both tires or wheels and evaluate.

There are only two suspension shops that I trust …..probably many others….but these are the daddy rabbits.  Josams in Orlando.  Barry is the contact. If you call him and talk to him and tell him that our Monacoers site suggested this, he will spend a little time.  Have some pictures to text to him or email.  FIRST….weights and pressure…The other is in your “general area”.

https://www.hendersonslineup.com/

I don’t have a contact there.  Maybe some do.  Then, find the right spacers and space out the bad side (checking for clearance) and drive there.  I’m assuming that all is well with your ride height and air suspension….

A few of us have had to have our rear axles ‘aligned”.  When the axle is welded to the frame, if the welder gets into a hurry, the axle will be bent (on one side) and that wheel will not be perpendicular to the CL of the frame.  Josams checks that.  They have a proprietary induction heating system to correct.  You put on variius shapes and sizes of induction heaters or pads on the OTHER bracket….the one NOT overheated.  Then you heat it up.  You the. Quench it and it warps also….but it counteracts or goes the other way.  Bingo….instant alignment.  The conventional practice is drain the differential.  Ground the chassis.  Lay down beads, very HOT and thick and “targeted” on the OK bracket…..quench.  Then check.  You refill the differential. Folks have been doing that for years.

MEASURE the other side.  I know from talking to Scott Zimmer (Source Engineering) that there were many entities that wanted to buy the tooling, jigs, fixtures, fabrication equipment, etc. when Rev canned the chassis.  They loaded up all the goodies and took to a salvage yard and crushed them.  Independent outside auditors as well as the Rev auditors and financial folks. Rev took a major writeoff (depletion of assets) when they killed the chassis.  Tax advantages….so it was massive.  

Who knows….the fabricators might have GOOFED….you never know.  I personally would call Scott and see if he will spend a few minutes with you.  Tell him the Monacoers moderators, particularly one who was a satisfied customer, suggested it.  He is a great guy.  He will know more…

I have ONE other source….will do some digging….I’ll see if this was a not common, but did happen, warranty issue.  BUT first, you need to do the weights and pressure drill as well as the side to side measurements.  PM me offline when you have more info….then I’ll try to tap into that resource…

I DON’T think an out of alignment rear wheel is the issue….but we have had folks scuff down a set of rears after 15 K miles.  Need to ponder on that….Josams and Hendersons are experts….

That’s it.

[welleking]

I had  the same thing happen to my 95 exec. Actually did it my self by allowing the tire shop to remove a spacer that had always been between the hub and the wheels. 

 

[Tom Wallis]

My motorhome came with one wrong wheel on it. It was an inside dual and I never noticed it until I tried to rotate my tires. The wheel was too wide and it put the tire very close to the frame although it didn't touch anything. I had a difficult time determining what the proper wheel should be but I finally located one and everything fits properly now.

Is it possible someone replaced the rear wheels with the wrong size?

[Paul J A]

TALK to the guys at; https://www.hendersonslineup.com/

And

https://sourcerv.com/

They may know a shop in your area you could chat with. 

[Mike Farquharson]

Thanks for the replys, removed passangers side wheels, in side wheel same as drivers side and part number.

drivers side hub face to bolt 11 3/4" passangers side is 11 7/8" 1/16" out, the bolt on passanger side showes some rubbing  and tire showes some markings but no damage , tires look new am wondering if the toyo tires have a larger cross section.

Thanks Mike

[Tom Cherry]

39 minutes ago, Mike Farquharson said:

Thanks for the replys, removed passangers side wheels, in side wheel same as drivers side and part number.

drivers side hub face to bolt 11 3/4" passangers side is 11 7/8" 1/16" out, the bolt on passanger side showes some rubbing  and tire showes some markings but no damage , tires look new am wondering if the toyo tires have a larger cross section.

Thanks Mike

Short answer….if you read the Toyo chart….they are a Michelin equivalent. Numerous individuals that i know and trust from over the years have discussed tire upgrades and countless other topics.  In the past 14 years of reading about every post as well as rereading many as a moderator, I personally don’t recall inaide tire rubbing being an issue or discussed.  YES folks have used different tires and not put back on the metric sizes….as well as upgraded after Monaco did in subsequent models for increased load capacity and lower TP.

Paul has also suggested contacting Henderson’s and Source.  Assuming you are not grossly overloaded and underinflated, then you either have the wrong inside rims or Monaco goofed… If your pressures are OK and weights OK, then trying to eeek out an explanation due to a “fatter” Toyo is probably not a good path.

So, I’m back to the basics.  Talk to Scott Zimmer at Source.  He was totally involved in the Chassis Engineering department at Monaco.  He will remember any “exception” where a spacer was needed.  

scan the posts and see who has a similar year and maybe they can get you a brand and PN for the inside wheel.  

The other path is, assuming you have clearance on the outside, buy a pair of spacers….maybe 3/8” and drive on..

Swapping brands of tires will be costly and you also will probably end up with the same issue.

Accuride should be able to help you.  They had good tech support a few years ago. If you gave then the PN of both rears….then they would be able to tell you which steel rim with a different ofsett might work.

Good luck….

 

[96 EVO]

After reading the post above by welleking, guess it's not unheard of!

[Tom Cherry]

I went ahead and contacted the former general manager of one of the largest Monaco owned warranty and service and repair centers.  Many old timers know of whom i speak.  I told him the basics.  Tires correct size.  Assumed proper inflation and not overloading…..but that was going to be verified.  Also that a few Dynasy owners of that vintage had has mis matched inners and some had spacers on both axles. And that one side was ugly and the other just missed.  Sent him the two pictures.  He, as usual, popped back….promptly.  This is the most knowledgeable individual that i know with Monaco’s history as well as having to fix assembly goofs or mistakes in deign.  I suspect Scott Zimmer of Source will parrot this also….

Good Afternoon, 
I would make sure the h frame is not cracked and allowed the axle to shift. I would also suspect the vehicle may have been driven with under inflated tires. Tire size could have been 275/70 275/75 or 295/80.  
If all is good, Spacers are an option. Just have to make sure there is enough stud. 
Probably under inflation. 
Thanks

Thats it…..

[Mike Farquharson]

Thank You Tom Cherry

[Tom Cherry]

22 minutes ago, Mike Farquharson said:

Thank You Tom Cherry

You are welcome.  I’m a belt and suspenders guy, sometimes.  Give Scott a call.  Google Source Engineering.  

[Dennis N - 2005 Windsor]

I'm not sure under inflation would cause this. Under inflation would make the tires bulge at the bottom but why would they bulge at the top where the bolt is rubbing?

[Preston W]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:16 AM, Tom Cherry said:

I went ahead and contacted the former general manager of one of the largest Monaco owned warranty and service and repair centers.  Many old timers know of whom i speak.  I told him the basics.  Tires correct size.  Assumed proper inflation and not overloading…..but that was going to be verified.  Also that a few Dynasy owners of that vintage had has mis matched inners and some had spacers on both axles. And that one side was ugly and the other just missed.  Sent him the two pictures.  He, as usual, popped back….promptly.  This is the most knowledgeable individual that i know with Monaco’s history as well as having to fix assembly goofs or mistakes in deign.  I suspect Scott Zimmer of Source will parrot this also….

Good Afternoon, 
I would make sure the h frame is not cracked and allowed the axle to shift. I would also suspect the vehicle may have been driven with under inflated tires. Tire size could have been 275/70 275/75 or 295/80.  
If all is good, Spacers are an option. Just have to make sure there is enough stud. 
Probably under inflation. 
Thanks

Thats it…..

Hi all I'm new to the group and find this discussion most helpful but extremely frustrating. I have also discovered the wear marks on the inside dual of our 1998 Monaco Dynasty caused by these same bolts. I can't imagine we're all driving around with crooked axles or a cracked H frame. I've kept the inflation of the inside duels between 90 and 105 PSI. looks like it's not wearing a deepGroove in the tire, ( I can catch my fingernail on the deepest part)  but it makes me nervous as  all get out because I know how these things can explode. I'm using Goodyear g70 RV tires 295 80r 22.5. I called spectrac, the top suspension place in the Phoenix area. they had never heard of the problem.  he has no spacers on the Shelf. I'd have to drive 80 miles, pull the duels see what kind of spacers it could take, then he has to order them snd another trip to have them put on tagain. A real hassle but I may be faced having to do that. Can anybody tell me the approximate width of the spacers that will go on  a 98 Monaco Dynasty that could fix this problem and pull the Dual a little bit farther away from the bolts. At ride heights I've looked with a mirror and I have about 3/16 of an inch clearance on either side. So  perhaps when hitting a bump the tire has flexed causing it to contact the sidewall. 

 one other complication we used to have a safari had an RV garage built to house the Safari in the Monaco's higher so each time I take the dynasty out I have to drop it on airbags about 5 in slide out of the RV garage and then get full ride height.  I was thinking maybe that was causing the rubbing on the tires but I don't think so, it's such a short way. Thanks for the great site and information 

 

[Guest Ray Davis]

I might go to a truck tire shop and see about getting a spacer installed.  At least have them look at it.