New Samsung fridge not working off the inverter

[Blacknight]

Ok-so I installed a new fridge replacing the nevercold fridge. I read thru many posts that explained to hook up the power for the fridge to the ice maker plug. I did that and the fridge works great when hooked to shore or generator power, however, last night I unplugged from shore power to test how long I could last in "boondocking" situations. I never thought to look inside the new fridge after unplugging from shore power to see if it was working. Went out this morning after 12 hours to see my results and the fridge was off. Unplugged the fridge and tried the other plug and still not working on the inverter. I replugged to the former norcold ice maker plug and still nothing. I checked the GFI plug and all is well. I looked in the manual for a fuse but cold not find anything. So where should I begin to solve my problem? p.s. the new fridge's freezer was half full of frozen goodies and once plugged in, the temp was 31 degrees after 12hrs! p.s.s- I also noted a steady draw of 3amps after I unplugged from shore power last night- I figure that is the T.V.'s still showing power to them? or what else should I turn/unplug? 

Thanks Steve

[Doug and Nicki]

My Monaco has two different outlets behind the refrigerator, accessible from the lower louvered panel on the outside wall. One is labeled inverter. See if you have a similar setup. On mine, that outlet handles both shore power and inverter power.

[jacwjames]

Is your inverter turned on???

The inverter probably has a pass through function, it will pass power when plugged in.  If the inverter isn't on it will still let power pass, but when you unplugged not power going through and if inverter not on then no power produced.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by jacwjames

[Martinvz]

Did you check to determine if you have at least 115v at the fridge inverter outlet?

Is your inverter a MSW or PSW inverter?

[Blacknight]

i’m away from the coach now but all worked fine with the old fridge-inverter is msw

4 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Is your inverter turned on???

The inverter probably has a pass through function, it will pass power when plugged in.  If the inverter isn't on it will still let power pass, but when you unplugged not power going through and if inverter not on then no power produced.

 

i did turn on the inverter at the wall panel if that’s what you mean 

[Tom Cherry]

Plug in something at the GFCI.  If it works, then you should have power at the icemaker circuit.  That is on Genny or Shore.

IF you have power then, the wiring from the inverter to the GFCI is OK.  Then, that means that something is wrong and the inverter is not on or running right and inverting.  You should also have all the interior outlets.  See if you can snake a long 3 prong extension cord out a window or under the Samsung and plug it in there and run it off the interior outlets.

Report back…

[Blacknight]

Tom- went to the GFCI  reset it, then plugged in a hair dryer-nothing. i did go outside to the inverter and pushed the two  breakers . nothing changes

[CTerry]

Try replacing the plug that is behind the refrigerator. My Samsung quit working and I took the plug apart and found that the cheap blade type connectors had literally fell apart. Replaced it with a heavy duty GFI plug about 6 years ago. I am assuming you have checked for power in the wire going to plug.

[dl_racing427]

22 hours ago, CTerry said:

Try replacing the plug that is behind the refrigerator. My Samsung quit working and I took the plug apart and found that the cheap blade type connectors had literally fell apart. Replaced it with a heavy duty GFI plug about 6 years ago. I am assuming you have checked for power in the wire going to plug.

I definitely would NOT want a GFI outlet powering a fridge.  Too much chance of it tripping and losing your food.

[Tom Cherry]

5 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

I definitely would NOT want a GFI outlet powering a fridge.  Too much chance of it tripping and losing your food.

DOUBLE DITTO & big time AMENS.  It is difficult for folks without some electrical background to convince them that Monaco made a huge mistake by powering the icemaker off a GFCI.  The National Electric Code (NEC) as well as all the state building codes, except some weirdos that write regulations without any technical expertise….or an AGENDA, ALL REQUIRE A DEDICATED NON GFCI Circuit for a Home Refrigerator and/or a Home Freezer.

The “leakage” in that the heating element in the ice mold is encapsulated with a non conductive ceramic material that heats up.  Residential refrigerators also have heating elements for defrosting inside the cabinets and such.  These eventually or even new, will “bleed” a minute of current and the GFCI goes bonkers.

YES, without question, a GFCI is needed if there is a source of water within the 5 or 6 ft perimeter of an outlet.  However, if a MH was inspected by a professional or a “permit approval municipal inspector”, it would FAIL in that the icemaker/res refer outlet is on a GFCI.

It a disaster waiting to happen and it WILL….and then folks panic and say….”if the res refer circuit is removed from a GFCI”….that is DANGEROUS and could hurt someone.  The real story is it was easier to daisy chain in the icemaker outlet from the GFCI than to be aware of the long range headaches and problems that presents.  Monaco was good, but they stupidly or sometimes KNOWINGLY, designed circuitry that was destined to fail….after the warranty expired.

[Blacknight]

On 6/14/2023 at 3:51 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Plug in something at the GFCI.  If it works, then you should have power at the icemaker circuit.  That is on Genny or Shore.

IF you have power then, the wiring from the inverter to the GFCI is OK.  Then, that means that something is wrong and the inverter is not on or running right and inverting.  You should also have all the interior outlets.  See if you can snake a long 3 prong extension cord out a window or under the Samsung and plug it in there and run it off the interior outlets.

Report back…

Ok Tom- finally getting back to hopefully solving the problem. I followed your instructions and plugged an extension cord to another inverted outet and the fridge works on inverted power. The plug that the Norcold was plugged into works while on generator or pole power. There are tow recepticals, one for ice maker and one for fridge. niether of these recepticals work on inverted power. What's next?

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Blacknight said:

Ok Tom- finally getting back to hopefully solving the problem. I followed your instructions and plugged an extension cord to another inverted outet and the fridge works on inverted power. The plug that the Norcold was plugged into works while on generator or pole power. There are tow recepticals, one for ice maker and one for fridge. niether of these recepticals work on inverted power. What's next?

Left you a voicemail.  Call me…at this point a one on one Q&A will work better…

[Happycarz]

I wired my Samsung to the microwave circuit. I removed the ice maker as I don’t use my fresh water tank for ice, so load is not too much for the inverter breaker. 
Originally it was on the GFI circuit with a multitude of outlets on that circuit. It doesn’t take too many appliances to trip the 20a circuit breaker in the inverter. Splitting the loads, a number years ago, was a solution that worked for me.

[cbr046]

16 hours ago, Blacknight said:

 . . . and plugged an extension cord to another inverted outet and the fridge works on inverted power. The plug that the Norcold was plugged into works while on generator or pole power.

Might be the same deal as our bedroom outlets - in the breaker panel they're not connected to inverter power.  Shore power yes, generator power yes, inverter power no (and I was hoping to run the electric blanket all night long, ooops).   Monaco was probably concerned with draining the batteries running the (absorption) fridge in AC mode or just to make ice (my best guess). 

I like @Happycarz suggestion of plugging it into the microwave (if it's next to the fridge).  Easiest solution by far.  

- bob 

[Dr4Film]

Snowflakes, you will never find two identical!

Obviously, Monaco never wired the single duplex (two outlets) to the Inverter otherwise it they did then the NotSoCold would not work correctly by detecting when power has been severed.

Seen this before by other members here. They had to run a new Romex line or extension cable from an outlet that WAS powered by their Inverter.

[Blacknight]

Well, I have crawled under the bed and found were the yellow romex enters a junction block and checked the connections are all tight, found three junction boxes under the table with one marked frig and one ice maker all connections are tight. I wonder if I should add an inverter to run the frig by itself.

 

 

[Dr4Film]

Some members have done exactly what you are considering. They installed a separate PSW Inverter with a 120 VAC bypass OR just the Inverter and powered the fridge constantly with the Inverter.

[Tom Cherry]

Richard & @Blacknight,

I totally agree.  Steve and I talked yesterday and he tried many things.  We just talked and he i running one last test. I 

FWIW and to provide a little insight.  Both the icemaker and heater outlets in the refrigerator compartment work.  They work both on Generator and Shore.  The GFCI works (but i still suggest he have a spare as it is old) and he pulled the unit out and it only has ONE line side circuit.  All the internal outlets work and he has done a soft reset and checked the 3 pin Magnum circuit breakers as well as the mains in his panel.

When he switched to INVERTER, NEITHER of the refrigerator outlets WORK.  Obviously the heater is NOT in the Inverter circuit….it is a main 10 amp feed from the main panel….and was NEVER intended to run off the inverter.  His internal outlets work…but NOT the icemaker outlet.  He has run an extension cord and the Samsung runs fine.  

He thought  that the icemaker circuit worked off the inverter before…..but the icemaker was a mess and he never used it.  So, we both think that the icemaker receptacle was NEVER working, since he has owned the MH, off the inverter.  He has done a lot of wire chasing and we talked about his layout.  I am having doubts that the Icemaker circuit is wired to the prints.  There was a transition year where Norcold went from a single power cord to two….and separated the Icemaker from the heater.  Monaco also had to change the internal circuit so that there was a line from the GFCI to the new Icemaker receptacle. Unfortunately, Steve’s GFCI has only ONE line or circuit on the LOAD side….so, even it we figure out where the wiring is, he will still be at the mercy of a GFCI

The other glitch is that there were some repairs or renovations and the carpet was replaced and the original wiring was “moved” around as the clips were not used….now did the previous owner also do something….who knows.

He is going to turn off, methodically, each breaker but check for power on BOTH refrigerator outlets….with the heater 10 A being the last.  Obviously, he has to leave the 30 amp inverter ON.

Once he completes….will post.

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Richard & @Blacknight,

I totally agree.  Steve and I talked yesterday and he tried many things.  We just talked and he i running one last test. I 

FWIW and to provide a little insight.  Both the icemaker and heater outlets in the refrigerator compartment work.  They work both on Generator and Shore.  The GFCI works (but i still suggest he have a spare as it is old) and he pulled the unit out and it only has ONE line side circuit.  All the internal outlets work and he has done a soft reset and checked the 3 pin Magnum circuit breakers as well as the mains in his panel.

When he switched to INVERTER, NEITHER of the refrigerator outlets WORK.  Obviously the heater is NOT in the Inverter circuit….it is a main 10 amp feed from the main panel….and was NEVER intended to run off the inverter.  His internal outlets work…but NOT the icemaker outlet.  He has run an extension cord and the Samsung runs fine.  

He thought  that the icemaker circuit worked off the inverter before…..but the icemaker was a mess and he never used it.  So, we both think that the icemaker receptacle was NEVER working, since he has owned the MH, off the inverter.  He has done a lot of wire chasing and we talked about his layout.  I am having doubts that the Icemaker circuit is wired to the prints.  There was a transition year where Norcold went from a single power cord to two….and separated the Icemaker from the heater.  Monaco also had to change the internal circuit so that there was a line from the GFCI to the new Icemaker receptacle. Unfortunately, Steve’s GFCI has only ONE line or circuit on the LOAD side….so, even it we figure out where the wiring is, he will still be at the mercy of a GFCI

The other glitch is that there were some repairs or renovations and the carpet was replaced and the original wiring was “moved” around as the clips were not used….now did the previous owner also do something….who knows.

He is going to turn off, methodically, each breaker but check for power on BOTH refrigerator outlets….with the heater 10 A being the last.  Obviously, he has to leave the 30 amp inverter ON.

Once he completes….will post.

FOLLOW UP.  MYSTERY SOLVED.

The 10 Amp Refrigerator breaker is correct.  Turning it off kills the Gas Heater electric receptacle.

The ICEMAKER line is wired directly into the Washer Dryer Outlet.  It does Not bet power, as it is supposed to, from the Inverter.  WHO KNOW WHO or why it is wires that way…but now we know WHY there is no ICEMAKER power from the receptacle when on Inverter.

For the interim, as long as Steve is on Generator or Shore….all works.  He has a temporary line from an internal (inverter powered) running the Samsung….as that was our test.

He is going to swap out the old GFCI with an approved 20 A new GFCI.  His coach was not configured where the Icemaker circuit and sometimes the TV and such can be moved from the LOAD side and placed on the LINE side….which is how it should have been all along to prevent false positives from tripping the GFCI.

He does NOT do or plan a lot of boon docking.  He can run the Generator for an hour or so, on and off while traveling to keep the Samsung cold.  We discussed many options as a long range solution…too many for here.  The bottom line is that even if the ICEMAKER circuit was originally downstream of the GFCI….he still hs the potential for false positives.  He will look at a couple of easy and inexpensive ways to be able to switch the switch the Samsung line from the ICEMAKER circuit to the Inverter circuit….

That’s it.  What he thought worked with the Norcold, did not work….

 

[Blacknight]

Thanks to Tom for the few hours he spent walking me through my situation. You just don't find the level of knowledge and expertise everyday anymore and that goes for everyone that contributed and helped with my problem. Hope I can return the favor someday.

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, Blacknight said:

Thanks to Tom for the few hours he spent walking me through my situation. You just don't find the level of knowledge and expertise everyday anymore and that goes for everyone that contributed and helped with my problem. Hope I can return the favor someday.

You’re welcome.  It was a good mental exercise and you did all the work and I was happy to help you understand a bit more more about how the system works or is supposed to work.

Good Luck….