2009 Dynasty Yorkshire IV - Hydraulic Side Radiator Fan Motor

[RSchlicht]

While driving, I noticed power steering going out and pulled into the first rest area I saw.  Three days later, we are still stuck at the I-85 Alamance County Southbound Rest Area in North Carolina near Burlington and Greensboro.  We haven't been able to find any service facility able to help us with this issue and without cooling fans or power steering, we can't drive on.  Without a service garage willing to take us, we don't have anywhere to tow to either...  Third day and counting!  Does anyone had any experience sourcing the hydraulic motor for the side radiator fans?  Ours is leaking fluid around the shaft.  Most people I have talked to say a rebuild with that symptom won't work because it's most likely the aluminum is worn causing the leak.  So far, Northwest RV Supply is the only place I've found a similar part, but they get it from the UK with a 7-day lead time.  Any direction or assistance with this would be most appreciated!  They are calling me "Rest Area Ron" around here!    Thanks friends!

IMG_1104.HEIC

[klcdenver]

If your system takes ATF fluid I would try some stop leak to slow it down so you might can get to a better place to park. I have had really good luck with TransX in transmissions. You can get it at any auto parts store.

[Flyinhy]

I don't know much about Burlington but Greensboro has a hydraulic supply shop that's decent size and they may be able to refer you to a repair shop close by. 

[Tom Cherry]

From the top.  I am caring for my wife and can’t do a lo of “offline” help and another moderator is on vacation.  SHOTGUN and don’t know how much info you have….so BOOM….

I would have called but your phone was omitted from your profile. You might post that for folks to contact you direct.  That is what most broken down folks do.

if you have your original build sheet in the bedroom or the big briefcase that has all the manuals, there is brand and model and PN and even SN of your pump.

If you don’t have that, odds are there are other O9 Dynasty owners that do and they can give you the pump info.

From the UK might mean a Danfoss Sauer or Sauer Danfoss pump.  There is a USA company that bought them or maybe one of them.  You need to google a LOT and talk to the US folks.  NW is a good company, but you might get faster service yourself via the US connection…as they also have stocking distributors and certified repair shops and also rebuilders.   Some provide a rebuilt pump and if your core is bad, you don’t get back the “core refund”.

Cummins has a Coach Care facility in Greensboro.  Stay on I 40 (you technically are on I85 & I40 and stay on I40) It is right past where I85 split to the left.  Look them up. I would take my info….MH VIN & Cummins engine SN and pictures and go over there.  They are OK….but everyone shop has some bad reviews….but I have used them.  They will help you, but may be booked up.  BUT they will tell you WHO to call for the towing….that is the most important thing.  A bad tow (dropped 3 times) will total the MH….yes…that has happened.

If they are booked up, then they should know another shop that they trust….  The reason for going over….the old Cummins Atlantic had a great call me system.  Now. It is AI and frustrating….you have time and I assume a TOAD….otherwise…call a UBER.

They MAY have a mobile tech service that can replace the pump there.  There are hydraulic services in Greensboro that can rebuild it and they will determine if it IS rebuildable. 

IF you have RED fluid…ATF.  Only refill it with Allison Transynd. Cummins stocks it.  It is compatible.  If straw brown yellow, AW46 Hydraulic fluid…use it.  There is a local Texaco distributor that stocks the OEM (in your manual) that was put in.

Use the SEARCH box in the upper right.  Put in DANFOSS and from the drop down menu select TOPICS.  We had a similar topic maybe 3 Months ago….there were company names and also the US company for the pumps.  Try SAUER or Hydraulic or Pump.  LOTS OF GOOD INFO.  You can scan the posts.

Good Luck….

[RSchlicht]

Sorry, I didn't include my phone (612)500-3675 - I always think it's in our directory entry.  We just got to a shop that is working with a local hydraulics shop to try to help us.  The Cummins shop wouldn't work with us because we are on a Roadmaster Chassis and Freightmaster works on those.  We called Freightmaster, and they won't work on RV's.  I was able to drive 4-exits up to their shop, they topped off the reservoir and with a little effort, was able to make it into their yard.  It's not the pump, but the fan motor that is leaking around the shaft.  The UK supplier says they don't have stock currently, so we are continuing our search while the techs here are working to remove the part to see if the hydraulics shop can rebuild or not...  In checking the inventory sheet I do have the part number for the fan motor.  It is a Sauer 551101308210.  Thank you for that, I should have checked there first!  Never ignore the obvious - must have been the stress of the situation getting to me.

The fluid leaking is clear and the techs tell me it's power steering fluid. 

[vito.a]

To make sure I understand your post, your hydraulic engine cooling fan motor is leaking hydraulic fluid and your hydraulic system is getting low so the power steering is intermittent.  Hopefully you did not overheat the engine.  

When this happened to us, I filled up the hydraulic system and drove to a repair shop.  I used an Uber to get to a Walmart and bought several gallons of Valvoline Maxlife synthetic fluid.  Ours hold 55 quarts of Dexron III fluid so you can drive a very long way (several hundred miles depending on how bad the leak is). 

The Maxlife synthetic fluid is way overkill for this application so you could use almost any Dexron fluid.  I chose the Maxlife because it has special seal conditioners and reduced the leak.  

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvoline-Maxlife-Dex-Merc-Atuo-Transmission-Fluid-3-1-Gallon-Instore-Service-Item-Only/600835561?from=/search 

Best of luck!

Just checked the 2009 Dynasty Owners manual.  Your hydraulic system takes 35 quarts of Texaco Rando HD 46 if equipped with an ISL engine and 55 quarts if equipped with an ISM 500hp engine.  

Texaco Rando HD 46 is a zinc based hydraulic oil for use in industrial and mobile service. The series is formulated with Group II base oils, in combination with rust and oxidation inhibitors, anti-foam and highly stable anti-wear additives, offering good pump and piston protection.

[waterskier_1]

I'm looking up my notes on my 1997 Dynasty Hydraulic Fan Motor Replacement/Rebuild.  I found the Part Number: 551101308210 is a "

MN3 M 440 L AF 06 AS 210 (SNM3)" per Advanced Fluid Systems, Inc, 751 Hurricane Shoals Road, NE, Lawrenceville, GA  30043, phone 770-963-6164.  I have this specific part number highlighted, so I believe it is the same pump that I replaced.

I found that the seal kits were very hard to find.  You had to order in quantities or 25 or 100 or some such thing.  Not many small rebuild shops would rebuild that many of that exact pump in the lifetime.  I did find a way to get a kit sent to me as an evaluation item.  I ended up ordering the pump itself.  I found it at Berendsen Fluid Power and had it shipped to their location in Aurora, CO (my Dad lives in Denver).  The Aurora (Denver) phone is 303-373-4840.  

Mine was leaking, but no where enough that I lost power steering.  It was making a mess, but it was leaking less than a quart every 50 miles, just I just kept filling the hydraulic reservoir.   

Oh, one thing to caution you about - the basic motor does not come with the hydraulic speed control valving (not sure the correct term).  You can tell by the number of hydraulic hoses - two large ones for the motor itself and two or three going to a unit that mounts on the back (not obviously a separate unit) that has the smaller hoses.  Mine was wax valve controlled, and I'm not sure the interface if you have the electronic control.

  -Rick N.

[RSchlicht]

Thanks for that information Rick!  I called Advanced Fluid Systems and they are tracking down inventory for me right now.  They said the Dynamatic number you gave me is a current cross to the Sauer number I have but he is not seeing inventory anywhere, so they will check Europe and let me know tomorrow.  Thanks again, and it's another option for us!  Have a great day.

[vito.a]

We found our Sauer Danfoss rebuild kit here:

Gary Manchester
7315 W. Wilson Ave.
Harwood Heights, Ill. 60706
ph: 708-887-6320
Fax: 708-887-5009
manchester@qccorp.com

Had to purchase two for minimum purchase, but they were cheap.  

[waterskier_1]

If not available locally, try the current manufacturer, White House Products, www.whp.co.uk.  You'll have to make a free account to see costs.  I found they can be less expensive than USA, if you can handle the 10 days - 2 weeks shipping. They also have an expedite, but it is costly. 

  - Rick N.

[Ivylog]

I looked up my fan motor # as I doubted a 97 would be the same as a 09 having compared a 04 Dynasty (1st picture) to our 08 Nav…2nd. My # ends in 309-210, NOT 308-210. Need to make sure what model # you have??? 3rd picture is a model # I’ve tried to research as it might be the correct one, BUT not sure.

[RSchlicht]

Great photos, and very helpful information!  Thanks also for the call!  It sure looks like yours is way more accessible than on the '09 Yorkshire.  I will research the new numbers, but doublechecked the numbers I had against my paperwork and found them to be correct.   I will attach the Data Card for reference.

 

Thanks again for the call and the assist!

Monaco Dynasty Data Card.pdf

[waterskier_1]

What engine do you have in your  09 Dynasty Yorkshire?  I think Dick has an ISX and has -308-210.  My 05 Exec has a DD Series 60, and has -303-210, which has the same specs as Dicks, except Dicks is Left Hand rotation, and mine is Right Hand rotation.  They both are 550 cm motors, while the one you mention is 440 cm.  If you have the ISC or ISL, then maybe it called for a slightly smaller pump due to less heat being generated.  This is purely speculative.  

  -Rick N.

[vito.a]

According to his data card he has a Cummins ISM 500hp.  The ISM usually has one hydraulic fan and the ISX has two.   

[waterskier_1]

19 minutes ago, vito.a said:

According to his data card he has a Cummins ISM 500hp.  The ISM usually has one hydraulic fan and the ISX has two.   

Interesting!  Obviously my 97 Dynasty with a C 8.3 Mechanical had only one hydraulic fan.  I haven't even checked to see how many fans my DD 60 has, but it does have the over-height radiator fins on the outside.  That would account for the difference between the part numbers.

  -Rick N.

[Ivan K]

I don't know about Ron's 2009 but our 2000 with ISM has 2 fans. 

[RSchlicht]

Latest Update 6/22

The service techs just got the fan motor off and discovered that two bolts on the face (fan side) of the motor were broken off.  One of the missing heads looks fresh, and the top of the bolt was recovered in the fan shield, and the other looks old based on the amount of grime over the break.  I have no idea how they would break off like that, but they would sure explain a break.

The motor is off now to a local hydraulic shop to see if it can be repaired or if it has to be replaced.  Thanks everyone for your input, I will keep you posted on the findings.  We are happy to have progress now after 4-days into this but as most of you seasoned full-timers know, every day brings a new adventure.

On the replacement front, I have taken everyone's input and my research and found several options which I will share as soon as I have time.  The prices and delivery times have quite a range.

[Ivan K]

Hopefully just a reseal and new bolts, fingers crossed.

[Tom Cherry]

39 minutes ago, RSchlicht said:

Latest Update 6/22

The service techs just got the fan motor off and discovered that two bolts on the face (fan side) of the motor were broken off.  One of the missing heads looks fresh, and the top of the bolt was recovered in the fan shield, and the other looks old based on the amount of grime over the break.  I have no idea how they would break off like that, but they would sure explain a break.

The motor is off now to a local hydraulic shop to see if it can be repaired or if it has to be replaced.  Thanks everyone for your input, I will keep you posted on the findings.  We are happy to have progress now after 4-days into this but as most of you seasoned full-timers know, every day brings a new adventure.

On the replacement front, I have taken everyone's input and my research and found several options which I will share as soon as I have time.  The prices and delivery times have quite a range.

Great news.  You are probably getting saturated by the “Rex Block” of weather that settled over NC.  Raleigh has recorded, as my deck gauge as well, almost 4”.

I would suggest to the tech to clean up the old bolt (socketed head cap screw).  Should be some markings (Google the IFI (Industrial Fasteners Institute?) and verify that the new bolts are the same grade.  I would also recommend Loctite RED for the bolts to prevent vibration and a future failure occurrence.  Mechanics sometimes  do not like it…but if it ever has to come off again, it will break loose with some preheating.

GREAT things are coming together. Hope you have done some research on what to refill with (Transynd) and are comfortable and understand why the clear power steering fluid was not the original nor the recommended AFT that Monaco should have used…

After our conversation, i pulled your owner’s manual.  Lots of info.   The pictorials show a hydraulic pressure filter (spin on).  The Dynasty 2008’s, at least a few of the owners, confirmed that…but who knows.  This is a good topic to read as I learned a lot….and it might help you.  
 

BUT….as usual, the manual MAY not have had the right fluid.  I was told by the old Monaco Tech Support that circa 2005/6, that ALL Monaco switched over to ATF.  They discovered issues (in this thread) with temperatures and Hydraulic oil.  NOTE on page 272 or so….a warning about switching to a special product for estreme cold.  The oil expands and cracks a lot of things….we have had numerous failures.  That was why, supposedly, Monaco did a full change over….but many 2008 & 2009 owners did have AW46….we’ll never know the real reason…maybe the bean counters switched back to save a few $$ per unit.

My personal recommendation is to drain out the clear, non standard Stuff and use Transynd,,,,

OK…..FINAL LINK….BTW….if you use the search box at the top and put in Hydraulic and use the drop down and Topics…..there are 42 pages.  Some are recent….i wanted you to have this one as it lists the internal filter on the reservoir.  Frank McElroy has a great explanation on the filters and such in the first link or topic.

Bottom line….your system MAY have been drained and converted by someone….it may have come with AW46.  I would not go back, but there is a Texaco distributor locally that has the Rando.  I’d refill with Transynd and never change the internal or the hydraulic again and not worry….

 

[dl_racing427]

16 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

Interesting!  Obviously my 97 Dynasty with a C 8.3 Mechanical had only one hydraulic fan.  I haven't even checked to see how many fans my DD 60 has, but it does have the over-height radiator fins on the outside.  That would account for the difference between the part numbers.

  -Rick N.

My 1993 Dynasty with the C8.3 has 2 fans.
In that situation, I'd consider bypassing the leaking fan motor and driving on one fan.
Just watch temperature carefully.  Also I'd likely disconnect and plug the control valve to force the fan to high speed.
A tractor supply may have the fittings you'd need. If not any hydraulic supply should have them.

Edited June 22, 2023 by dl_racing427

[RSchlicht]

Thanks Tom!  I sure appreciate the wealth of information!

 

[birdshill123]

The netal brackets that hold the fan motor on our 08 Dynasty were not well designed. They also had bad welds. When I had our Dynasty at Massey's in Phoenixthey remove the brackets and had the welding shop next door reinforce everything. Maybe the brackets have something to do withthe broken bolts. Monaco sure needed better welders.

[RSchlicht]

The bolts that were broke were not the mounting bolts, they were the bolts holding the motor together.  I will post more once I have the unit back from the  hydraulic shop.  Thanks for your feedback.  I just couldn't see how the bolts were stressed, other than from vibration or possibly product defect.  If you see the photo I attached above, you can see the bolt is on the face of the motor and was facing the fan.  The older broken bolt was burried even deeper behind the hub, so I was theorizing movement or torque on the shaft from a bearing issue or something.

I will post an update once I have feedback from the hydraulic shop.

[Tom Cherry]

21 hours ago, RSchlicht said:

Latest Update 6/22

The service techs just got the fan motor off and discovered that two bolts on the face (fan side) of the motor were broken off.  One of the missing heads looks fresh, and the top of the bolt was recovered in the fan shield, and the other looks old based on the amount of grime over the break.  I have no idea how they would break off like that, but they would sure explain a break.

The motor is off now to a local hydraulic shop to see if it can be repaired or if it has to be replaced.  Thanks everyone for your input, I will keep you posted on the findings.  We are happy to have progress now after 4-days into this but as most of you seasoned full-timers know, every day brings a new adventure.

On the replacement front, I have taken everyone's input and my research and found several options which I will share as soon as I have time.  The prices and delivery times have quite a range.

Great news.  You are probably getting saturated by the “Rex Block” of weather that settled over NC.  Raleigh has recorded, as my deck gauge as well, almost 4”.

I would suggest to the tech to clean up the old bolt (socketed head cap screw).  Should be some markings (Google the IFI (Industrial Fasteners Institute?) and verify that the new bolts are the same grade.  I would also recommend Loctite RED for the bolts to prevent vibration and a future failure occurrence.  Mechanics sometimes  do not like it…but if it ever has to come off again, it will break loose with some preheating.

GREAT things are coming together. Hope you have done some research on what to refill with (Transynd) and are comfortable and understand why the clear power steering fluid was not the original nor the recommended AFT that Monaco should have used…

After our conversation, i pulled your owner’s manual.  Lots of info.   The pictorials show a hydraulic pressure filter (spin on).  The Dynasty 2008’s, at least a few of the owners, confirmed that…but who knows.  This is a good topic to read as I learned a lot….and it might help you.  
 

BUT….as usual, the manual MAY not have had the right fluid.  I was told by the old Monaco Tech Support that circa 2005/6, that ALL Monaco switched over to ATF.  They discovered issues (in this thread) with temperatures and Hydraulic oil.  NOTE on page 272 or so….a warning about switching to a special product for estreme cold.  The oil expands and cracks a lot of things….we have had numerous failures.  That was why, supposedly, Monaco did a full change over….but many 2008 & 2009 owners did have AW46….we’ll never know the real reason…maybe the bean counters switched back to save a few $$ per unit.

My personal recommendation is to drain out the clear, non standard Stuff and use Transynd,,,,

Keep the ball rolling and notes and then let us know.  This whole thing is playing our to be a “drama” and not a tragedy.  GREAT…

[RSchlicht]

Got the motor back from the hydraulic shop all cleaned up and ready to install.  Here are the photos of the cleaned up motor and nameplate.  Bench test went well, next step will be the technicians reinstalling the motor.