Generator circuit breaker

[Hancoman]

When out at the motorhome today, cleaning carpets and vacuuming for an upcoming short trip to the coast. Turned the generator on and all three air conditioners after about 10 minutes they tripped the generator circuit breaker. I reset it and just ran the back and middle air conditioners same result. Then just ran vacuum and shampooer separately no problem. Could it be the breaker should it be a hard click when when you reset it like on the panel because it is very soft like a light switch. Should it be ok to use shore power next week. Thanks Tom

[David White]

I have noticed my switch does have a different feel, but your problem was likely an overloaded breaker.  The 3 ACs exceeded the 30 amp breaker.  You probably would have had no problem with only 2 running.  You might try to run 2 as a test.

Edited August 2, 2023 by David White

[Tom Cherry]

8 hours ago, Hancoman said:

When out at the motorhome today, cleaning carpets and vacuuming for an upcoming short trip to the coast. Turned the generator on and all three air conditioners after about 10 minutes they tripped the generator circuit breaker. I reset it and just ran the back and middle air conditioners same result. Then just ran vacuum and shampooer separately no problem. Could it be the breaker should it be a hard click when when you reset it like on the panel because it is very soft like a light switch. Should it be ok to use shore power next week. Thanks Tom

REREAD your post.  I think I figured it out or have a good guess.  Your sales brochure does NOT list a built in Vacuum.  If you brought out a home vacuum cleaner, then you DID overload it.  I once had a Computer Room power supply  BIG BUCKS....maybe $75K back in the early 80's.  The cleaning crew would come in.  They found a "CLEAN POWER" outlet behind something and used it instead of the PLAIN OLD POWER.  That small vacuum's inductive load, small, shut down the Computer.  May not be the case...but it does happen.

When you start to load up a generator, now knowing what your House batteries were at...low or almost dead or whatever, you need to not run all 3 AC. The Inverter/Charger was probably running on BULK or "GIVE IT ALL YOU GOT".  That is an additional 15 Amp (typically)

The rule of thump.  Start up the generator and let it warm up, especially, if the MH has been sitting... If you do NOT have storage power, there is an immediate load on the Generator.  Usually low enough NOT to trip.  BUT, if the House were really down or almost dead, some folks temporarily turn off the CHARGER side.  Let the Genny warm up.  Then start applying the load.  If you have an Alladin or such, you ought to monitor it for voltage and current.

I suspect that all three of the AC's may have cycled and the amperage (load) kicked up and the circuit breaker tripped.  That is common.

NOW, you also need to know that your Genny DOES need exercising.  The brushes will get dirty.  The fix is simple.  USE IT.  You need to run it for a few hours at 50% or more load.  I would do this before my trip.  So, restart it....let it idle for 5 minutes or so.  Bring on ONE AC.  Let it run for a few minutes.  Your house batteries should be starting to get a good charge.  Then do your vacuuming....UNPLUG IT.  Then start to bring on one AC.  Let it run a while...then the final one.  Let them run for a few hours.  That will also "fix" any issues where the brushes were dirty and not putting out full power.

I think all is well....but remember to do this each time.  You need to load he genny to 50% or more for at least 3 hours every six months or so.

Let us know if you have any more issues.

 

5 minutes ago, David White said:

I have noticed my switch does have a different feel, but your problem was likely an overloaded breaker.  The 3 ACs exceeded the 30 amp breaker.  You probably would have had no problem with only 2 running.  You might try to run 2 as a test.

YES....you and I are on the same page, but if he threw in a vacuum (household), that inductive load will really PEAK at startup...then if the AC was cycling...one side got overloaded.  TRIPPED.  A common occurrence...

We are on the same page...

[MyronTruex]

Your breaker shows to be a 45 amp?? 

Two AC's could go to 35 amps easily. Three could go over 45 amps and your onboard charger is likely running a few amps along with whatever else is in the mix such as a water heater or vacuum.

I don't think you have enough power unless that is a dual 45 amp breaker there.

 

[Ivan K]

Since it is an Executive, it should have at least 10K genny and that would have dual breaker. My 12.5k feeds front and center AC on L1 so if the vacuum was on the same line, I think Tom is right about overloading that line. Running center and rear AC only, should balance the L1/ L2 loads but the breaker is already hot and who knows what the cleaner pulls as for current, plus the charging as mentioned.

[Hancoman]

Thanks for info.  It is a 10k genny . I do exercise it monthly or so.  I will let it warm up and build the load gradually and see if that helps. Thanks again Tom

[Rikadoo]

I had a customer who wanted a inverter put in there commercial truck for the purpose of being able to run there vacume when out on a job site. Never having looked at loads from vacumes i brought out my 2K inverter connected it to my pick up truck to evalute its performance, the inverter immediately went into overload and shut down! So then i used my 3K inverter which also has a battery volt meter as well as a Amp usage meter. I was amazed how much current there commercial vacuum cleaner used, the voltage consumed from my battery was tremendous! The only way it could keep up was to run the engine and my alternator almost had max output while under load.

I told the company they need to consider a different plan, such as a generator.

PS: i had tried using my Shark vacume on the same inverter set ups the draw was 1/2 of there commercial cleaner… now i have a better understanding of my utility bill increase when my wife has had too much coffee and decides the house needs a thorough, vacuuming🤦‍♂️

[jacwjames]

Just following as it's interesting on the issue of load balancing. 

 

About once a year I run my generator at full load, I monitor by the EMS amp readout, trying to maintain ~60 amp load by running both AC's small toaster over and other loads.  Do this to burn out the spark arrestor,  never had a problem with generator circuit breaker tripping, guess I just got lucky. 

[Tom Cherry]

28 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Just following as it's interesting on the issue of load balancing. 

 

About once a year I run my generator at full load, I monitor by the EMS amp readout, trying to maintain ~60 amp load by running both AC's small toaster over and other loads.  Do this to burn out the spark arrestor,  never had a problem with generator circuit breaker tripping, guess I just got lucky. 

Probably good for the Spark Arrestor, but did not want folks to think that the 7.5KW (like you have) of the 8KW like I have needs to "have the brushes cleaned".  Our generator does not have brushes.  ONAN tried to explain it to me.  Our system if not impacted by bad brushes...thus, no annual CLEAN THE BRUSHES. It has very clean power as the AC is converted to DC and then BACK to AC...like a double wash...

That is ALSO why our Generator as well as the Onan 10 & 12 KW do NOT NEED Surge Protection.  Therefore any auxillary Surge Suppressor should go on the DOWNSTREAM SIDE of the Automatic Transfer Switch.

On a SECOND NOTE... if you overload the 7.5 or 8KW Generators, which you can do...at least on mine....I have a Dual Pole 35 Amp Breaker.  Don't know about yours...BUT there have been incidents where an owner repeatedly overloaded the 7.5KW.  The result is 70 AMPS on the single Neutral.  The #6 is not rated that high...typically in the high 50's, if I remember.  NOW, since these are NOT 220 VAC, but TWO lines of 115....the CURRENT on Line 1 and Line 2 are added.  On the 10 and 12, the current, since the lines are "out of phase" is the algebraic sum of the currents..  Thus a 20 amp load and a 12 amp load would be EIGHT (8) amps....

Just be careful....60 is the highest I would dare go.  The Intellitec EMS reads the NEUTRAL....HONOR and RESPECT THAT LIMIT...as well as the Number 6 Ampacity.

[96 EVO]

4 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Since it is an Executive, it should have at least 10K genny and that would have dual breaker. My 12.5k feeds front and center AC on L1 

My 10KW has the center and rear on the same line.

I'll have to check which line they put the vacuum on.

[Ivan K]

6 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

My 10KW has the center and rear on the same line.

I'll have to check which line they put the vacuum on.

Ours used to be like that too but the breaker got moved one position up, flipped with block heater. Don't remember why exactly but it made sense at that time  🤔

[Paul J A]

10 hours ago, Hancoman said:

Thanks for info.  It is a 10k genny . I do exercise it monthly or so.  I will let it warm up and build the load gradually and see if that helps. Thanks again Tom

Did you look at the Aladdin and see the load on L-1 and L-2 ?

[dl_racing427]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:20 AM, Rikadoo said:

I had a customer who wanted a inverter put in there commercial truck for the purpose of being able to run there vacume when out on a job site. Never having looked at loads from vacumes i brought out my 2K inverter connected it to my pick up truck to evalute its performance, the inverter immediately went into overload and shut down! So then i used my 3K inverter which also has a battery volt meter as well as a Amp usage meter. I was amazed how much current there commercial vacuum cleaner used, the voltage consumed from my battery was tremendous! The only way it could keep up was to run the engine and my alternator almost had max output while under load.

I told the company they need to consider a different plan, such as a generator.

PS: i had tried using my Shark vacume on the same inverter set ups the draw was 1/2 of there commercial cleaner… now i have a better understanding of my utility bill increase when my wife has had too much coffee and decides the house needs a thorough, vacuuming🤦‍♂️

If you complain to your wife about the electric bill due to her vacuuming the house, you deserve to be SLAPPED!!! 🤣