Air Tanks and System not operational…Potential Leveling issues. HELP!

[Andy S.]

When it rains, it pours.

Fired up the Coach, and lo and behold the front AND rear air tanks are not filling. I have a sneaking suspicion that this has to do with the fault I'm getting at passenger rear on my leveling keypad. 

The front gauge just sits at zero, the rear toggles from max to minimum. 

I'm at a complete loss here, and also not super mechanically inclined. 

Anybody know a shop or tech in the South Texas area?

Thanks 

Andy S.

[Frank Bergamo]

You might try the air governor. Looks like this, https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TWDH284358?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Brakes&campaign_id=8659198719&adgroup_id=106304766654&adtype=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoK2mBhDzARIsADGbjeqFf26PLsSpw-hGYibAAPmk5CTWWbLCNdy5KXRLzw3SxeLHjSrKKXcaAjdXEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&  It is usually located in rear engine compartment on cross member. Hope this helps, good luck.

[Romeo84]

With the engine running it has to be building air. See if you can listen to hear the leak if it's coming from the air dryer or the bags leaking make sure to have someone step on the throttle to build rpm. Will increase build pressure making it easier to hear. 

Also the governors are cheap and easy fix like posted b4. So if it's not building ez fix

Try to find out if it's losing air or just not building it. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Romeo84

[Bill R]

5 hours ago, Andy S. said:

The front gauge just sits at zero, the rear toggles from max to minimum. 

Andy - If you know where your front/wet tank purge/bleed valves are, you can open them and see if air is coming out while the engine is running.  Mine are located below the drivers side dash next to the generator.  That would indicate whether or not the compressor is coming on.  If no air is coming out then as the previous posters have mentioned it is most likely your air governor.    Let us know.

[Yoaks5]

Sounds like it could be your dash gauges acting up. Try draining the air tanks to see if you actually have air in the tanks. Are you getting a low air alarm or light? 

[dandick66]

Another option is to try filling the tank from an external source.  If you have a leak you will definitely hear it.  Sometimes trying to hear a leak with the engine running can be difficult.  
Based on your description - front tank sits at zero and rear tank toggles from max to min - I’d say you might have 2 problems.  1) There is a massive leak in the front tank system, 2) Your PCCV(pressure control check valve) is defective.  The way the system is supposed to work is the air goes from the compressor to the dryer to the wet tank.  The wet tank supplies both the front and rear tanks.  There is an internal check valve in the wet tank that connects to the front/dry tank.  The check valve I mentioned is at the rear tank and it allows the air to flow from the wet tank to the rear tank.  When the governor cuts out the compressor, the valve allows about 10 PSI to flow back to the wet tank and purges the air dryer.  If the valve is defective, air will continue to flow from the rear tank to the wet tank and then the front/dry tank.

 

 

[Andy S.]

UPDATE

Had a guy come out that's very familiar with air systems. 

The actuator rods worked in both directions. 

No air release could be heard from any of the bags.

When I idle up, air is not heard escaping from anywhere. 

The bleed valves front and back are both pushing air out. 

I showed him the Valve manifolds in the "book" and he said he did not see them. Fixing to slide under and attempt to locate them.

Frustrating, but solvable. Just a pain in the butt.

Thanks everyone, more to follow. 

[Jean G]

3 hours ago, dandick66 said:

Another option is to try filling the tank from an external source.  If you have a leak you will definitely hear it.  Sometimes trying to hear a leak with the engine running can be difficult.  
 

My engine won't run more than about a minute, and I need to air up the rear to get under it and fix a leak in the fuel system wherever it is. I've heard about this option to add air somewhere in the vicinity of the generator slide, but I've searched diligently and can't find it. Can you tell me exactly where to look, or maybe post a picture please? She's sitting at 2.5 degrees, and we're stuck! The only good thing is she's sitting in my driveway, but she's as anxious as I am to get back out on the road. Thank you. 🙂

[jacwjames]

My air fill is on the right side of generator, it is a male air chuck fitting.   This is what  a tow truck driver would hook to to keep your system pressurized to release the brakes. 

I have another female fitting drivers side near my propane tank, this one I could hook a hose to go get air to something. 

[Jean G]

18 hours ago, jacwjames said:

My air fill is on the right side of generator, it is a male air chuck fitting.   This is what  a tow truck driver would hook to to keep your system pressurized to release the brakes. 

I have another female fitting drivers side near my propane tank, this one I could hook a hose to go get air to something. 

 

Thanks Jim!

I found this underneath on the passenger side, just outside the generator rail. I think it's what I'll need, once I clear out 20 years of road crud. Unfortunately, I can't get any of the DS bays open, since my slide went off the rails. As soon as she's ready to roll, she's headed to the doctor in KY to get that checked out. 

What part of East TN are you in? 

[diplomat don]

Jean do not clean that fitting while on the coach. Take it off and clean from the inside out or replace with a new one. Chances of blowing grit thru the air system are too great and could expand your problems. keep air systems clean. Good luck, Don

[jacwjames]

I'm ~25 miles east of Knoxville.   A +42 year transplant form Wisconsin.  

I'm one of the d*** Yankees everyone talks about, came down here and never went back. 

[Yoaks5]

@Andy S. Sounds like your are building air pressure if you have air coming out of your drains. I would be looking at your gauges. On mine I have 2 air lines that connect to a transponder. It's located on the back of my dash gauges. You could remove the air lines from these to see if they have pressure. If they do it's a gauge problem.  But be very careful you don't want to break the transponder. 

 

To verify your building air pressure use your air leveling system and try to raise your coach up.  I would run the coach for 5 min to build pressure then shut it off and try to raise it. I can hear the air moving in my system and can feel it raise. 

[Jean G]

23 hours ago, diplomat don said:

Jean do not clean that fitting while on the coach. Take it off and clean from the inside out or replace with a new one. Chances of blowing grit thru the air system are too great and could expand your problems. keep air systems clean. Good luck, Don

Thanks, Don! Exactly the sort of thing my husband would have known to do, but alas, I'm now having to borrow everyone's else's husband to get things done. (And I bet I've bet I've got some extra fittings in the basement already.)

23 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I'm ~25 miles east of Knoxville.   A +42 year transplant form Wisconsin.  

I'm one of the d*** Yankees everyone talks about, came down here and never went back. 

~ 40 miles north. I'm recently transplanted from NC. The DY influx is worse there.

After 42 years, you really should have assimilated enough that people can't tell. Or drop the d*** and go back home 🙂

[jacwjames]

29 minutes ago, Jean G said:

After 42 years, you really should have assimilated enough that people can't tell. Or drop the d*** and go back home 🙂

Unfortunately I have not relinquished my northern twang, locals can tell I'm not from here.  But when I go north people hear a southern twang in my voice and doesn't help if I use the slang "over yonder"🤬  I guess I'm an in betweener!

[Jean G]

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

Unfortunately I have not relinquished my northern twang, locals can tell I'm not from here.  But when I go north people hear a southern twang in my voice and doesn't help if I use the slang "over yonder"🤬  I guess I'm an in betweener!

Maybe you try Kentucky? 

[Guest Ray Davis]

13 hours ago, jacwjames said:

"over yonder"       southern twang

What's the problem with "over yonder"?   We go over yonder all the time.  LOL  😁

And, southern twang?   I don't notice it here in Tex.  🤥

[Jean G]

15 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

What's the problem with "over yonder"?   We go over yonder all the time.  LOL  😁

And, southern twang?   I don't notice it here in Tex.  🤥

I guess the twang goes by too fast if you're used to a slow Texas drawl.😃

[Andy S.]

UPDATE on air system.

Tanks still charging, but no air getting to leveling system. Showing  the fault on the RR. Spoke with the guy at Valid, and without air, we couldn't reset anything. Had a heavy equipment mechanic look into it and there was an extremely hot solenoid in the rear controller. I have been able to contact a mobile repair shop in Katy TX, and am coordinating a visit for later this month. 

More to follow 

[Tom Cherry]

15 minutes ago, Andy S. said:

UPDATE on air system.

Tanks still charging, but no air getting to leveling system. Showing  the fault on the RR. Spoke with the guy at Valid, and without air, we couldn't reset anything. Had a heavy equipment mechanic look into it and there was an extremely hot solenoid in the rear controller. I have been able to contact a mobile repair shop in Katy TX, and am coordinating a visit for later this month. 

More to follow 

WHOA….post a picture of that HOT puppy.  Odds are…it is the Intellitec Big Boy.  If it looks like this…it AIN’T got nothing…NADA to do with anything in your air or leveling system This is the infamous Big Boy for BIRD (both ways) charging.  The solenoids and valves that you want all have air fittings….if this one has two big red 4/0 cables and two little wires…back to the drawing board…

[Jean G]

I removed this air fitting from under the front of my Dynasty, and I want to replace it with the shiny new one. Will the difference in type be a problem somewhere down the road? My couplers don't want to connect to the old one. (All I know about this stuff is 1/4" NPT, whatever that means.)

[Ivan K]

Moderator's EDIT.  From the practice of moderator's correcting something that could result in a serious problem or damage...  We do NOT recommend using the WRONG fitting.  The Tow Truck will (or should have) the Automotive T Female Fitting.  It probably, might, maybe work.  BUT, why risk it.  That fitting is for Recharging your REAR BRAKES when you are below 65 PSI and the rears are LOCKED UP.  Technically, a SHOP fitting should be used on the Female and that is where you are SUPPOSED to get auxillary air.  If you decide to keep it...and install the wrong one.  THEN, make yourself up a short adapter hose.  The SHOP Female on one end and the NEW (or the old if you can clean it up ok) Type T Automotive (Industrial) Male Fitting on the other so that you can confident that Tow Truck Driver will hook it up properly.... or IS supposed to use....  That's from the manual and all the info on Air Brake Systems....  

End of Edit

Keep the old one in the rig in case you need towing in the future. I also replaced mine with one that works with my shop compressor but have the old one just in case. Now, if I could only remember where....

Edited August 8, 2023 by Tom Cherry
Corrected to Standard Practice to prevent a major problem

[Tom Cherry]

22 minutes ago, Jean G said:

I removed this air fitting from under the front of my Dynasty, and I want to replace it with the shiny new one. Will the difference in type be a problem somewhere down the road? My couplers don't want to connect to the old one. (All I know about this stuff is 1/4" NPT, whatever that means.)

You have the WRONG male.  The front, per DOT or "Tow Truck Hardware" is an Automotive Type T  MALE or sometimes called "Industrial"
 Type T.  Lowes used to stock them...you obviously need the MALE with MALE threads.  Google it.  All over the place or use Amazon.  Ace MIGHT not have them...

THAT IS THE ONLY ONE TO USE AS A REPLACEMENT.  The "shop" or homeowner's that you bought is supposed to be used on the "Quick Disconnect Female Fitting  so that you can inflate your tires or whatever.

BUT....this is not talking down to you.  When you use that...you MUST have the engine running.  The Governor will cut out around 125 PSI and WHOOSH.  You put on the air chuck and inflate for about 30 - 45 seconds...then I BLEED (using a car key or small screwdriver) the air chuck and when the compressor comes ON...I wait.  When it goes WHOOSH...I then do that again.  Otherwise the pressure in the system gets in equilibrium or the same as the tire.  If I need to add 5 - 7 PSI to my fronts, I might have to do that bleed and repressurize cycle 4 or 5 times.  No one EVER wrote this in a Monaco Manual.

ALSO...on the Female fitting, you it is NOT plugged or covered...Find a cap for it...or use a heavy duty plastic bag and a zip tie...  Steve's pictures showed how rusted out it was and he had to replace it...

Good Luck.

 

[96 EVO]

Hot solenoid in the rear air leveling '6-pack' is my guess.

Since you spoke to the tech at Valid, I assume he had you hold the power button for 10sec to reboot the system?

Edited August 8, 2023 by 96 EVO