Outside receptacle for our 03 HR Navigator

[Joint Venture]

Looking to install an outside receptacle that is supplied by either shore power or generator but not via the inverter. I have 3 available receptacles that are in the basement but all of them are supplied via inverter. My goal is to be able to supply power to a battery charger when my generator runs or on shore power. I thought of using the block heater receptacle but was not able to find it. Any ideas?

[Tom Cherry]

25 minutes ago, Joint Venture said:

Looking to install an outside receptacle that is supplied by either shore power or generator but not via the inverter. I have 3 available receptacles that are in the basement but all of them are supplied via inverter. My goal is to be able to supply power to a battery charger when my generator runs or on shore power. I thought of using the block heater receptacle but was not able to find it. Any ideas?

Suggest you read the OWNERS MANUAL.  There is a section in CHASSIS Electrical that describes where the Block Heater is located, probably with a picture. Monaco did some funky things.  Look at you main panel.  There should be a 15 Amp breaker for the Block Heater.  You ALSO MAY have a switch up front to activate the Block Heater. This is a 12 VDC relay that you have to push the switch ON and that supplies power directly to the Block heater in the Engine Compartment (That is WHERE IT IS...on THAT you can depend).  Monaco made some changes the the later Block Heaters were sometimes WIRED STRAIGHT...as in from the Main Panel to the Receptacle. BUT, in the early years, the "On/OFF" Switch was used....so don't know...>>>>BUT it will be documented in the Owner's Manual as well as the Prints in the back.

IN SOME YEARS (Yes....this is an evolution and there is NO HARD AND FAST RULE), the breaker was a GFCI in the Main Panel and the Outlet was a standard receptacle.  THEN later on, they switched to a REGULAR Breaker in the Main Panel. Then, by CODE, they had to put a GFCI in the Engine Compartment. If you have the GFCI there, I would NOT trust it.  I would replace it with a NEW ONE.  The older ones, especially exposed to the harsh environment back there, would get cantankerous and crotchety (like some older MH owners....LOL).  SO, if you want a RELIABLE setup, be a big spender and REPLACE the GFCI receptacle. If you have a standard receptacle, then the GFCI Breaker may be OK...otherwise, WATCH IT...and you MIGHT need to replace it.

That's it.  YES, this is the best OPTION.  You DO NOT want to chase things down.

NOW....an OPTION.  What TYPE of REFRIGERATOR do you have? If you have a Residential Refrigerator, there is a 10 Amp RECEPTACLE that was used for the Heaters in the Gas/Electric.  That would be in the Access Panel behind the Refrigerator. You can USE THAT outlet and just run the cord through the louvers.  10 Amps will probably be sufficient for most chargers.

NOW....DO HOT PURCHASE A CHEAP CHARGER....like the 12/6 VDC low amperage. They will TOAST and DESTROY your Batteries....  This happens quite frequently. You need a HIGH TECH Charger that is a THREE PHASE, like your INVERTER.  If you put on a $25 charger, it will pump current until it boils off the electrolyte.  The THREE State (Electronic) Chargers will only charge when needed.  IF you are using this as a Maintainer, then you need only 2 Amps of output.  BUT, if you want to CHARGE DEAD Batteries or Batteries that are 50% Depleted....then you will need on that has at least 80 Amps of Output.  THEY ARE WAY MORE expensive.

SO, it depends on what your objective it....you need to decide or define it and then figure out WHAT charger you need and then purchase an Electronic one...otherwise....BYE BYE BATTERIES....and YES...that happens often....

[Dr4Film]

The Block Heater Duplex is located in the engine compartment. It can ONLY be located there. Search that area throughly.

[vito.a]

On our 2004 Signature the block heater outlet is on the front passenger side of the engine compartment.  

[Steve P]

In my 08 Knight, the block heater is wired with a standard 3-prong plug.  The plug dangles in the left rear bay next to the shore power cable and the cable connecter for TV.   Right above the cable connector, there is a 120v outlet to plug the block heater into.  No switches that I know of other than the breaker in the breaker box in the rear bath.

[Bill R]

3 hours ago, Joint Venture said:

My goal is to be able to supply power to a battery charger when my generator runs or on shore power.

Just curious why you are wanting to do this?

[Steve P]

Like charging the batteries on an electric golf cart?  Or maybe even an EV (car)?

[Bill R]

1 hour ago, Steve P said:

Like charging the batteries on an electric golf cart?  Or maybe even an EV (car)?

I may be missing something here, but, the 120V outlets that are inverted power also will be pass through power when on shore or generator power.  So wouldn't those still suffice when on shore or generator power?  Or is there some other reason why you want only an 120V outlet that is only supplied by shore or generator?

Edited January 7 by Bill R

[Joint Venture]

OK fellow RV'ers let me offer full disclosure. While traveling in TX we came across a lady RV'er full timing in a "modified utility trailer" that has been modified for RV use. She had her brother install solar panels as well as lithium batteries, a lithium battery charger and the trailer is wired for 120V 30amp service with 12V LED lighting, built in water tank and pump. In reality her trailer is pretty well set up and she has a fold own bunk, propane 1 burner stove and a cassette toilet with a 12 gallon fresh water tank installed. We met her when she was broke down at a rest area with problems for her Toyota 4 Runner. I was able to repair the SUV so she can travel pulling her trailer. SUV had a bad coil pack and very worn spark plugs. Changed out coil pack and installed all new plugs so that all is good now. She has been full timing for 2 years and is enjoying life and works on the road doing research for a university on the internet so has a Starlink connection. My wife has enjoyed meeting her and seems to have a connection so invited her to join us on the beaches in TX. My solar "package" is doing us well and I generally only run my generator for about 2 hours in the evening to top off the batteries. During my run time I plug her trailer in using a receptacle in the basement so she can as well top off her batteries. When I shut down my generator I don't want to have her pull power from my batteries via the inverter. Presently I unplug her after shutting down generator. Would rather just shut off generator and that would end all power to her trailer. Generally start generator in the morning for an hour or so to charge mine and her batteries till the solar takes over as it's still dark when wife and I get up.

I will look harder for the receptacle in the engine compartment. I do have the "Block Heat" switch on the dash, a relay installed in the 240V service panel in the bedroom that controls 120V power to the block heater. No GFI breaker in that panel although there are 2 GFI's in the inverter panel next to the main 240V service panel. I also have a switch on the dash for "Engine Heat" circulating hot water thru the engine via the aqua hot system. I suspect the block heater is wired directly but will inspect engine area for the receptacle closer today. Now you all know "the rest of the story". I thank everyone for all the replies and appreciate your guidance very much.

After posting my reply I realized that receptacle, if found, will do me no good unless I unplug the block heater cord and turn on block heater switch/relay.

Edited January 7 by Joint Venture

[Jetjockey]

There is a 120 volt duplex outlet in my engine compartment the block heater plugs into and is controlled by the block heat switch .  On mine it is located.It likely has a weather cover on it. Idoubt the heater is wired directly as that would make replacement more difficult . The block heater on mine does not have a huge current draw. Maybe about 1200 watts drawing 10 amps or less measured. I have a hughes industry watchdog surge suppressor that gives reading voltage ,amps ,and watts real-time. Gives a lot of good info to balance loads in coach. Also connects Bluetooth to my phone so one can easily remotely monitor. Her 30 amp service may exceed your Duplex outlet capacity which may be 15 to 20 amps max. I have heard of coaches with sufficient generator capacity having a dedicated 30 amp rv or even a 50 amp rv outlet installed . The 50amp were on prevost  20kw 4 cylinder diesel gens. You may have checked your circuit breakers to see what amperage those outlets are protected at.

Edited January 7 by Jetjockey

[Larry Laursen]

I have done what you want to do while on a caravan to Alaska.  Yes, plug the cord into the block heater outlet.  Now, on my unit the outlet is at the radiator because I have a rear radiator.  On your 03 Navigator you have a switch on the dash and "there is an outlet" shown in the schematics.  Where it is, may be a challenge to find but most likely in the engine compartment. However, I wouldn't be concerned about unplugging the block heater as you are in the South and don't need it.    

[Dr4Film]

@Joint Venture

The Block Heater Switch on your dash is a 12 VDC switch. Therefore it is NOT wired directly. There is a relay hidden somewhere, most likely in your bedroom that controls the 120 VAC going to the outlet in your engine compartment.

The Windsor has it hidden behind the Intellitec EMS Control Board and the case for the circuit breakers. I haven't had the need to go looking for the relay in my Dynasty as I really don't use that outlet in the engine compartment.

[Joint Venture]

 

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

@Joint Venture

The Block Heater Switch on your dash is a 12 VDC switch. Therefore it is NOT wired directly. There is a relay hidden somewhere, most likely in your bedroom that controls the 120 VAC going to the outlet in your engine compartment.

I have located the 12V relay for the block heater and it is in the 240V electrical panel in the bedroom. The 12V relay is switching the 120V 15A circuit coming from the circuit breaker dedicated to the block heater.

5 hours ago, Larry Laursen said:

I have done what you want to do while on a caravan to Alaska.  Yes, plug the cord into the block heater outlet.  Now, on my unit the outlet is at the radiator because I have a rear radiator.  On your 03 Navigator you have a switch on the dash and "there is an outlet" shown in the schematics.  Where it is, may be a challenge to find but most likely in the engine compartment. However, I wouldn't be concerned about unplugging the block heater as you are in the South and don't need it.    

I have no concern about the absence of a block heater as I still have an engine heat switch that circulates hot water from my aqua hot system thru the engine should I encounter cold weather although that is pretty unlikely as don't intend to go north until May. Appreciate the knowledge that I am only attempting to do what obviously works as you have done it.

Edited January 7 by Joint Venture

[Russell]

I am for sure, no expert and full disclosure, I rely on the experience and wisdom of several of the people in this forum, but I wanted to chime-in on this power receptacle situation. 

I use that outlet in the engine compartment all the time. Sometimes for exterior lighting and sometimes for a wet/dry vac. We're in Florida 90% of the time, so the engine block heater isn't a feature I've tinkered with. 

There are also a couple outlets outside the fridge access. I also use those on occasion. That and the block heater should give you 6 plugs. 

I am curious what is the need for one that doesn't go through the inverter, so I'm going to follow along. 

Good luck. 

[jacwjames]

My block heater 12V relay is located in a 6"X6" box behind my service panel.  I was chasing another problem and saw the box.  There are actually 2 relays, one for the block heater and one for my water heater. 

When I took a close look the relay going to the water heater and the connectors and wire had signs of heat so I cut that portion of wire out and put new connectors on.  In 2022 I was working on something and checked the water heater relay again and found evidence of heat again.  I did buy and carry a spare relay.

The block heater had never been used, the relay looked good, the cord was still coiled up and zip tied up out of the way.  So I'd advise not to overload the system.  My circuit breaker is a 15 amp GFCI breaker.  If the breaker starts popping due to overload it may eventually have a problem with the relay.

 

[Joint Venture]

18 minutes ago, Russell said:

I am curious what is the need for one that doesn't go through the inverter, so I'm going to follow along. 

Good luck. 

Plugging the trailer into my basement receptacle is fine when on shore power or generator but if I'm off both of them the receptacle remains "hot" and is getting its power from inverter which I don't want. Plugging into Block Heat receptacle permits me to terminate supplying power when ever I want to.

[georgecederholm]

If the block heater outlet isn’t found or otherwise not an option, you can possibly add a new circuit if you’ve got an open slot in the main circuit breaker panel (not the sub-panel, which controls all the circuits driven from the inverter). If you have an empty breaker spot, knock out the opening, get a 15A or 20A breaker from Home Depot or Lowe’s or (your preference) of the same type as the breaker box and run 14-2 (15A) or 12-2 (20A) Romex down into the engine compartment and then to wherever you want. Outlet would be hot whenever on shore or generator as long as the breaker was “on”.

If you don’t have an empty spare slot in the main panel, you might be able to find a “two things in one” dual breaker that fits in one slot and replace a full-sized breaker.

Also, you mentioned that you have a Norcold refrigerator, which probably means you have inverted and non-inverted outlets behind the refrigerator outside access panel. The inverted outlet is for the icemaker and the other is for the refrigerator, which only supplies 120VAC when on shore or generator power, exactly what you’re looking for. Put a multi-tap on the refrigerator outlet, plug the refrigerator and an extension cord in, snake the extension cord to the outside and you’re good to go. 

[Joint Venture]

29 minutes ago, georgecederholm said:

Also, you mentioned that you have a Norcold refrigerator, which probably means you have inverted and non-inverted outlets behind the refrigerator outside access panel. The inverted outlet is for the icemaker and the other is for the refrigerator, which only supplies 120VAC when on shore or generator power, exactly what you’re looking for. Put a multi-tap on the refrigerator outlet, plug the refrigerator and an extension cord in, snake the extension cord to the outside and you’re good to go. 

My Norcold has been converted to dual 12V compressors by JR Refrigeration so the only receptacle being used is the inverter supplied one for my ice maker leaving me with a receptacle that is not presently used. I will look into using it to supply my need for 120V power. Thank you. 

[Tom Cherry]

44 minutes ago, Joint Venture said:

My Norcold has been converted to dual 12V compressors by JR Refrigeration so the only receptacle being used is the inverter supplied one for my ice maker leaving me with a receptacle that is not presently used. I will look into using it to supply my need for 120V power. Thank you. 

That "UNUSED" receptacle will be a 10 Amp Circuit Breaker, as I previously posted, on the main panel. It will be labeled as "REFRIGERATOR".  it only runs off the main panel when you have SHORE or GENNY.  SO, that will meet your needs. NOW, again, it is a 10 Amp. 10 amps X 120 Volts is 1200 WATTS.  Divide by 12 VDC so you would have the equivalent of a 100 Amp DC output. BUT, in reality, you ought to downgrade it by 80% or 80 Amps.  The common 2000 Watt Inverter chargers will barely deliver 100 Amps when the batteries are in full bore BULK CHARGE.

SO, if you purchase a charger...and re-read my post about NOT putting a DUMB charger on and leaving it as it will FRY or dryout or BOIL off the water in a sealed or an open cell battery...  

NOW, if you are NOT trying to "RECHARGE A DEAD BATTERY" and want to maintain it, then a 2 amp (DC) battery Tender will work well.  SO, look at the charging needs (DEAD or Maintaining) then find a GOOD three Stage charger or a 3 stage TENDER and the amperage (AC INPUT can NOT be more than 8 Amps or so...as the breaker for the Refrigerator is only 10 Amps.

Hope this clarifies it....

[Joint Venture]

The receptacle will be used for only supplying a small utility trailer that has been converted to an RV. I am only supplying 120V power so the owner can power up her battery charger. After checking my main power panel I find the refrigerator is on a 15A breaker that now is unused as my fridge has been converted to 12V.