HOW TO AVOID DAMAGE IN MH FROM FREEZING TEMPERATURES - HELP PLEASE

[Jetjockey]

How do you mitigate the freezing risk in your motorhome. Curious as to how low of temps one can take if operating normally on shore power in campground.  It will be 10 degrees here next week!

[BlueSteele]

Being in Texas in the winter, in an RV, with sub-freezing temps is no walk in the park. We survived the February freeze of 2021 - but just barely. 

This time around, I have inverted 39-gallon trashcans over the water spigot and water softener with 40-watt incandescent bulbs to provide some heat. I was successful with this scenario last winter, but we did not experience super-low temps. Keeping my fingers crossed. I'll switch to on-board fresh water if needed, so that's Plan B. Luckily, I have a 7.5kw diesel generator, so power outages are covered. I have two 1500-watt electric heaters that do a good job, but I'll need the furnace after the temps fall below 30. Yesterday, I got the furnace working after a summer of no use. Some pesky circuit board connection issues were resolved, so I think that will be the supplement heating source.

Luckily, the forecast calls for daytime temps above freezing, so we'll get a little help to mitigate deep freeze results, unlike Feb. 2021, when several days' highs were well below freezing.

[klcdenver]

I have stayed in my diplomat with single digit temps. Make sure your propane is full because heat pumps are not going to work. Get a small electric heater about 450 watts and put in service bay. I use an extension chord from a source other than the motor home if possible. If not plug it into the receptacle where you plug in your block heater. If you will get 2-3 electric heaters for inside will help save on propane. I use the milk house heaters because they are all metal and the have overheat and tip over switches. If you put your slides in that also helps. Get you a roll of double bubble insulation and cut it to fit every window and the windshield. After placing them pull your shades down to hold in place. It is unreal how much the insulating the windshield makes. Put pillows or some foam in your over head vents also. Get some Velcro and use the insulation to cover your sky light in the bath. I have also used that same insulation and lined the cabinets that are in the slides.

[tmw188]

You will get a lot of condensation on your inside windows and windshield especially. You will need to wipe them down and run your dashboard fans on the windshield occasionally to help evaporate it some. Small good quality htr in the wet bay. 

Edited January 11 by tmw188

[jacwjames]

I have two remote temp sensor in the basement to monitor temps.  One is at the rear (passenger side) of the fresh water tank and the other is near the water pump in the small bay which houses the manabloc water distributions system and a bulk of the piping. 

I have a the wet bay heater that comes on/off as the temps get cold.  I also added some heating pads under the fresh (2 pads) and under the black/grey (1 pad).  The heating pads are also controlled by the snap disc that turns on the small wet bay heater. 

In late March 2011 I moved to Northern Michigan, prior to the trip I took the time to use sealing foam to seal up all the openings at the front and rear of the chassis between the two raised rails where the piping/electrical/hoses/pipes go through.  I also checked the wet bay heater by removing the wires from the snap disc to make sure the heater worked.  I knew it would be cold so I mounted a small 120 volt heater on a heavy tool box to blow into the the small bay where the water pump/piping/manabloc system were so if necessary I could start the generator and get heat to the basement.  It was right after a severe winter storm that dumped lots of snow, stopped overnight in northern Wisconsin parking in a Walmart parking lot with +10' snowbanks all around the lot, it was like a freezer but I survived.  I stayed at a small campground in N MI, no water or ability to dump sewer but they did have a bath house that I relied on.  I was also limited to two separate 120 volt outlets, one providing power to the basement heater and the other to the house.  I relied on one heater in the LR area and sparingly used my propane furnace which was full when I started.  In April we had 2' of snow with temps down to the low teens.  Sometimes temps in coach would get below 40F, which when sleeping I didn't mind and I'd flip on the furnace before I got up to go to work.  During that time I had to make several out of town trips during which time I set the furnace on the lowest temp setting and left the heaters work, not the most ideal situation but it is what it is.  In mid May I was finally able to move to a site with full hookups.   I survived but it wasn't really fun but I had a good job so it justified my pain😄

For the 2012 during the area received +220 inches of snow

  Keep the slides in and if you have a way to insulate the front window it will help.  I use some large sun screens with a blank hanging .  Just bundle up and monitor the basement temps

So if you plan ahead you will be fine.

 

Edited January 11 by jacwjames

[Jetjockey]

What are the experiences for those with aquahot. I see all these responses are propane furnaces . I guess my interest is in the plumbing water systems not so much in the interior comfort.

Edited January 11 by Jetjockey

[Ivan K]

23 minutes ago, Jetjockey said:

What are the experiences for those with aquahot. I see all these responses are propane furnaces . I guess my interest is in the plumbing water systems not so much in the interior comfort.

I'll keep the electric AH portion running next week here in TX. That alone keeps the basement plumbing safe and has back in the 2021 deep freeze and interior stayed in 40's but I kept eye on it and had to start the genny when power went out for a day or so.

[zmotorsports]

27 minutes ago, Jetjockey said:

What are the experiences for those with aquahot. I see all these responses are propane furnaces . I guess my interest is in the plumbing water systems not so much in the interior comfort.

 

I'm not sure if you're talking interior comfort or parked and just wanting to keep it from freezing.

 

We have Aqua-Hot in our 2003 Dynasty and for the first 5 years or so that we owned it, we used it for snowmobiling so we routinely saw overnight temps in the mountains of teens to twenties.  Never had an issue with freezing water or being uncomfortable inside.  I will say that when up on the mountain we seldom deployed our slides as we really didn't need the interior room for 2-3 night stays and I didn't want to risk slide topper or seal issues at those temps.

The basement heater kept the plumbing from freezing and the generator aided in keeping batteries charged and the Aqua-Hot functioning as designed.  Never had a shutdown due to low voltage like some people do and we don't have anything to speak of in terms of solar.  We would run the genny for a couple hours in the evening while fixing and eating dinner and maybe watching a movie, then shut it down overnight and fire it back up in the morning while showering and getting ready to hit the trails and shut the generator down while we were out and about playing all day.  Then rinse and repeat the next night.  This was all without shore power.  The few trips we made to placed like Island Park or West Yellowstone in the winter and stayed in campground we figured it was a bonus having shore power.

 

Our previous coach, 38' Beaver Contessa, just had a standard 32k btu LP furnace and while it worked well, we were much more comfortable in our current coach and I worried less about freezing.  We actually did freeze up one time in the Beaver in the 7 years we owned it.  During a snowmobiling trip we got hit with a winter storm and high winds dipping temps down into the low teens and the next morning we had no running water.  I had to plug a hair drier in and thaw a line that ran next to an exterior wall that had frozen.  Other than that never another issue and never an issue with our current 40' Dynasty, although we sold our sleds about 11 years ago and no longer use it in the winter months.

 

I will say though that the first few years of owning our Dynasty I did blow out the domestic water system for a couple of months that we didn't use it until we started sledding each year but I highly recommend that you don't rely solely on blowing out the system.  I recommend that you use the RV antifreeze as the domestic lines that run around the outside of the boiler tank on older units (2002 and older) or on the inside of the boiler tank on the later models can freeze as water collects at the low points in the domestic line.  In my opinion it isn't worth the risk so I started using the antifreeze after the first couple of years as added insurance until we started using the coach for the winter.  Some years when we had early snow and started sledding closer to Thanksgiving timeframe I didn't winterize the coach and just kept it plugged in and set to around 50-degrees interior and mid-40's in the basement and never had an issue with freezing.  

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Jetjockey said:

How do you mitigate the freezing risk in your motorhome. Curious as to how low of temps one can take if operating normally on shore power in campground.  It will be 10 degrees here next week!

@Jetjockey

This is a timely topic.  BUT, it has been timely about once every year. Lots of great comments.  However, there is a wealth of information if you use the SEARCH FUNCTION, as requested in the BEFORE YOU POST A NEW TOPIC rules.

Use SEARCH.  Use a KEY WORD like FREEZING.  Then click on EVERYWHERE and select TOPICS. That will list every post in every topic that has the word "FREEZING"

Here is the result....

https://www.monacoers.org/search/?q=freezing&quick=1&type=forums_topic&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&page=2

Suggest that you open the link and then start to scroll each page. YES, a lot pertains to heat pumps and also other topics. BUT, there are several topics devoted entirely to "HOW DO I PROTECT MY RIG?"

I will make a comment or so ....to give you a background...

Your Aquahot (assuming you have it and odds are you do) is your BEST SOURCE of protection.  RUN IT.  Set the INTERIOR Temps on the FURNACE to say 50 degF. Make sure you turn on ALL ZONES and have the FURNACE option (mode) selected. You have an Aquahot heat exchanger in the wet bay and there is a thermostat (adjustable) for it....set it high...say 45 DegF to get max heating.  You DO need to test to make sure that it is working....and that ALL zones on your Aquahot work....

Do NOT depend (if you read your manual) on the System Heat function. You have a "Marginal" electric heater in your motor home. ODDS ARE, it MAY be OK, but unless you test it, you will run the risk of damaging the rig. There was a design change circa 2005 and the Cargo (Beige) heater from that time on have almost a 100% FAILURE rate. There is a File on the HEATER that you can download as to HOW to repair it and make it functional and it will NOT "die" again. Many have done this.

Monaco's tech support folks said that you were SAFE with NO internal heating down to about 25 DegF....or that was a general rule of thumb.  BUT 10 DegF is critical.

If you do NOT want to Winterize....the safest way, then turn on the interior heat and run it full time during the sub 15 DegF periods. 

Many of us will use a trouble light in the wet bay.  You can purchase on Amazon (or probably at a local ACE) a Thermostat that plugs in and when the temperature drops to 40 DegF or so, whatever is plugged in will come one. If you put in a Trouble light (WITH AN INCANDESCENT BULB...60 or 100 W), that provides a great deal of protection.

THE RISK...is that if the interior temperature gets below freezing and then the daytime highs are not warm, that your INTERIOR plumbing is at risk. ESPECIALLY the Flush vales on the toilet(s). SO, adding a heater in each bathroom would be an option if you choose NOT to heat the interior.

That's the consensus of what I have read and learned and asked about over the past 14 years.

Read the older topics and learn....

 

[MyronTruex]

I open cabinets, especially ones with water lines so heat can get in there. You don't have to open them all the way to get heat to the pipes.

Yes a low wattage drop light in the water bay is often suggested. You may have heating features for your basement.

 

[Paul J A]

Close the slides. Awnings up for sunshine when appropriate. 

Put https://www.reflectixinc.com/products/double-reflective-insulation/

Inside all cabinets against the coach wall where ever you can, wi dows too, shower dome, closet walls and on the floor in the closet and under the bottom of drawers , on the floor.

Across the windshield,  entire front door. 

Edited January 11 by Paul J A

[Jetjockey]

After 27 years of rving I have learned a little, some the hard way.. My aquahot has performed to prevent freezing at even -16 degrees.. no wind condition. Heat bulbs are marginal solution as is any other supplemental heat if it does not have a backup.  Bulbs burn out , heaters fail. So in any of those critical situations I have a backup heat source and real time monitoring remotely with alarms to my phone. I have seven locations monitored on my mh. Very interesting to see how those systems operate.

Just wondered what others  experiences were. I did search old posts. Wanted fresher information than some of those.  Almost all topics have been addressed more than once on these type of sites.. in that case there would never be many new posts.

Edited January 11 by Jetjockey

[Tom Wallis]

At this time of year I see lots of questions concerning both storing and camping in below freezing temperatures. I'd like to share some information and experience. I spent 12 year in Northern British Columbia where winter temperatures often got to -40 F as both a mechanic and an equipment operator. I've been RVing for over 20 years and now live in Nevada where temps can get down to Zero. I have both stored and camped in single digit temps.

I've never winterized an RV. We like to use the motorhome all year round so I use electric heat to prevent freezing when parked. It's in a barn not a shop. I have a 1500W space heater in the kitchen, a 500W space heater in the bathroom and a 300W heater in the water bay. They are all Wifi controlled and set to about 40 degrees. I can monitor from my phone. If the temperature is extremely low I might turn on the electric water heater element. I don't drain the water heater.

Moving on to batteries. I keep my motorhome plugged in at all times when parked. I can't see any reason why you shouldn't as long as your on board charging system is multi stage. This means it drops to about a 13.2V float charge when full. Most every RV built in the last 25 years is equipped with this type of charger. When I got the motorhome it wasn't set up to maintain my chassis battery while plugged in so I modified it. Some do and some don't. The freezing temperature for a charged battery is -94 F, at 50% SOC it's -4 F and a dead battery is 32 F. I'm referring to flooded lead acid batteries. I have no experience with Lithium or LiFePO4. My 6V golf cart batteries are 6 years old and going strong.

I know a lot of people feel they should start their engines periodically when in storage. At least in cold weather that's probably more detrimental than helpful. There is no benefit and one of the hardest things on an engine is a cold start made even worse by not bring everything up to operating temperature by a good drive. Your generator on the other hand should be exercised periodically for the electrical end of it. That could be done on warmer days.

A brief word on propane. Nothing to worry about here. Propane works good down to -40 F. Propane actually boils at -42 F when not under pressure, so around -40 you don't get enough pressure from the tank to run anything without applying heat to the tank. Not to many of you will run into that.

Now for engine antifreeze. A 50/50 mix is ideal but here's a little known fact. Just a 10% antifreeze mix will prevent freeze damage at nearly any temperature. It just turns to slush. You can't operate in low temps with it because it will slush up in the radiator stopping circulation and causing your engine to overheat.

When camping with hookups in below freezing weather you can run an electric heater in the water bay. If you don't have electric heat in the water bay but you run your furnace to heat the inside, at least in my motorhome it adds enough heat to the basement to prevent freezing down into the single digits. Anytime temps will get below freezing at night I leave my water and sewer hose put away. I just get them out to fill the water tank or dump as needed and put them away again. I have a heated fresh water hose but I find it more of a hassle than just filling my water tank.

If you are expecting snow put your slides in. If you don't you're liable to have to go up and sweep them before retracting. I learned that one the hard way.

Just remember, results may very! Some of my techniques may not work for everyone or in all situations but I hope every one can find some useful information here.