A Tale of Caution: Check your base plate!

[Scotty Hutto]

I’m very lucky! As we prepared to leave the Cajun Rally in the morning and head home, I decided to go ahead and set up my truck for towing.  I noticed the drivers side seemed loose, and on further inspection decided the bolts were loose and I needed to tighten it all up before we could leave tomorrow. 

When I got the front end of the truck disassembled (yes, it’s a pain!) to tighten the base plate bolts, I found that my base plate had broken!

I’ll figure out getting it fixed or replaced, but please use this as a reminder to check the base plate on your toad annually!

[Tom Cherry]

13 minutes ago, Scotty Hutto said:

I’m very lucky! As we prepared to leave the Cajun Rally in the morning and head home, I decided to go ahead and set up my truck for towing.  I noticed the drivers side seemed loose, and on further inspection decided the bolts were loose and I needed to tighten it all up before we could leave tomorrow. 

When I got the front end of the truck disassembled (yes, it’s a pain!) to tighten the base plate bolts, I found that my base plate had broken!

I’ll figure out getting it fixed or replaced, but please use this as a reminder to check the base plate on your toad annually!

Which Brand?

Did you use Loctite Red on all fasteners during assembly.

Did you use torque wrench for final tightening?

Roadmaster sends split lock nuts.  The IFI (PATRON SAINT of fastener manufacturer) has changed recommendations and they (confirmed with 2 well known manufacturers) now recommend FLAT WASHERS…not split washers.

Curiosity.  I’m on my third TOAD.  Been lucky, I guess.  Total of 80K or more.

Thanks for the post

[Scotty Hutto]

- Roadmaster base plate (installed May 2019 - I have towed the truck approximately 40,000 miles since then)

- Yes I used Loctite Red

- Yes I torqued to specifications (57 ft-lbs for 1/2” grade 5 bolts) using a Craftsman 1/2” drive torque wrench

- Yes, I checked them about a year ago. 

- The bolts where the base plate broke had flat washer -> split washer -> nut as per the current instructions provided by Road-master (Kit 523182-5 dated 7/14/2020)

PS - I will add two additional comments:

1. The base plate was not loose when I set up for towing last Thursday. This is something I check every time  

2. We came over some brutally bad roads from I-10 in Lafayette, LA to New Iberia, LA. I may have lost a few fillings on those roads, too…

 

[Donflem]

Wow Scotty good catch. I’m going to check mine in the morning.

[timaz996]

With the shape of our roads you got to wonder where all of the fuel tax money goes...Good for you to catch it.

[Dr4Film]

We all know exactly where all of the fuel tax money goes. How do you think people with average pay jobs get so rich!

[Tom Cherry]

9 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

- Roadmaster base plate (installed May 2019 - I have towed the truck approximately 40,000 miles since then)

- Yes I used Loctite Red

- Yes I torqued to specifications (57 ft-lbs for 1/2” grade 5 bolts) using a Craftsman 1/2” drive torque wrench

- Yes, I checked them about a year ago. 

- The bolts where the base plate broke had flat washer -> split washer -> nut as per the current instructions provided by Road-master (Kit 523182-5 dated 7/14/2020)

PS - I will add two additional comments:

1. The base plate was not loose when I set up for towing last Thursday. This is something I check every time  

2. We came over some brutally bad roads from I-10 in Lafayette, LA to New Iberia, LA. I may have lost a few fillings on those roads, too…

 

That is exactly what I expected.  WOW, FWIW...  Every time I have selected a vendor or baseplate manufacturer, I downloaded the prints and instructions and Roadmaster always, from an engineering or design standpoint, was more robust....  typically had an additional fastener and/or had larger diameter fasteners.

Thanks for sharing...  no matter how "RIGHT" one does it...sometimes things break.  That is why safety chains and a braking system is so important.

I have lost my design engineer contact at Roadmaster....otherwise I would send it to you.  But I have always had great response from one of their engineers if I had a technical question.

Glad you caught it...

[jacwjames]

Have you had to tighten the bolt in the past?

Did you consider contacting Roadmaster, they may be interested in taking a look at it.  From the pictures I almost looks like some of the crack is older form the looks of the surface rust but I know surface rust can happen over night.

This is one of the reasons I force myself to do my own oil changes.   It gives me a chance to inspect the baseplate. 

[Dr4Film]

One of the very first things I do after rotating the Blue-Ox Tow Pins into the base plate to lock them in place is while holding the pin firmly, I rock it up and down then right and left to see if I have any unwanted movement in the baseplate. I also try to rotate the pin just to make sure it is lock into the correct position.

So far, no problem with towing the 06 Black Saturn Vue the last 15 years. This past January I found a 2006 Red Saturn Vue for sale in Ft Meyers. It was already setup for towing with a Blue-Ox Baseplate and electrical setup for the lights. Went to look at it in early March and purchased it. After returning home, I prepped the Black Saturn for sale with 20 photos of the car showing all of the paint problems plus a full honest description of its mechanical condition and what it needed mechanically. I had it sold within 3 days on Facebook Marketplace.

Our impending trip to New Hampshire this coming Wednesday will be the first time towing this "new" car. I don't expect to have any problems. These cars tow really easy. The only difference between our old one and this new one is the drive system. Our old one was FWD whereas the new one is AWD. The manual doesn't state to do anything different between the two different drive systems other than to lubricate the transmission using a very specific method, then you are good to tow all day. Next day, repeat the same transmission lubrication process.

[MyronTruex]

JB Weld should work. Use the 5 minute type and you can be back on the road in minutes. ☠️

 

Thanks for the heads up. 

[Scotty Hutto]

50 minutes ago, MyronTruex said:

JB Weld should work. Use the 5 minute type and you can be back on the road in minutes. ☠️

 

Thanks for the heads up. 

Back on the road in minutes, and back in the ditch not long after. 😳🤣

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

Have you had to tighten the bolt in the past?

Did you consider contacting Roadmaster, they may be interested in taking a look at it.  

Never had to tighten them. I pull the fascia off the front of the truck once a year and check them with a torque wrench. 

As obvious as it sounds after reading your post, I haven’t thought to contact Roadmaster.  Will do that now.  I’ve been too focused on trying to get back on the road. We had a family situation arise last night that requires we divert to Tupelo, MS instead of heading home. 

When it rains, it pours…

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, Scotty Hutto said:

 

Never had to tighten them. 

I'll inspect, but don't retighten nuts I've installed with Loctite!

[Paul J A]

I used stainless steel bolts, with castle nuts and stainless steel hair pin clips for fasteners for the base plates on the toad. 

Also used stainless pins with drilled holes for a lock on each pin.

The carbon steel base plate is the weakest link in the chain. The land between the holes, space, makes me nervous. 

IF the toad is of an age that justifies the investment I would replicate the toad base plate brackets in stainless and be done . Pretty simple part to do. A reputable quality fab shop could do that easily.  

[Scotty Hutto]

EPILOGUE…

The base plate was repaired this morning by a metal fabrication shop in Lafayette, LA.  The gentleman doing the welding was a pipe fitter, and it showed in the quality of his welds. After welding it, they fabricated a 3/8” plate and sistered it to the original with a continuous weld around the perimeter, then re-drilled the bolt holes.  Finally they painted the whole shebang and had me headed back to the coach in a little under two hours. 

The base plate was reinstalled by @TedZimmer, @stbfd08, Kevin Davis (Ted’s buddy), and myself.  Debbie and I were on the road by 11:30 am this morning. After ~450 miles and 8+ hours (no, we don’t usually travel that far or that long; it was a family emergency), the baseplate performed just fine. 

[Chargerman]

14 hours ago, Paul J A said:

I used stainless steel bolts, with castle nuts and stainless steel hair pin clips for fasteners for the base plates on the toad. 

Also used stainless pins with drilled holes for a lock on each pin.

The carbon steel base plate is the weakest link in the chain. The land between the holes, space, makes me nervous. 

IF the toad is of an age that justifies the investment I would replicate the toad base plate brackets in stainless and be done . Pretty simple part to do. A reputable quality fab shop could do that easily.  

Not trying to make an argument by any means Paul but I would be concerned about using stainless bolts in any application that encounters high stress situations. They are rather soft and are not recommended for high load/ stress applications. I love stainless fasteners and use them as much as possible but for high load and high impact stress needs I go with grade 8. Besides the higher hardness I like the anti corrosive properties that the coating provides.

[Paul J A]

3 hours ago, Chargerman said:

Not trying to make an argument by any means Paul but I would be concerned about using stainless bolts in any application that encounters high stress situations. They are rather soft and are not recommended for high load/ stress applications. I love stainless fasteners and use them as much as possible but for high load and high impact stress needs I go with grade 8. Besides the higher hardness I like the anti corrosive properties that the coating provides.

T y. Depends on the class of S S. 

[Chargerman]

I’m not aware of a class of S.S. that is rated/recommended for high load, high stress conditions. What class do you use for these applications?

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, Chargerman said:

Not trying to make an argument by any means Paul but I would be concerned about using stainless bolts in any application that encounters high stress situations. They are rather soft and are not recommended for high load/ stress applications. I love stainless fasteners and use them as much as possible but for high load and high impact stress needs I go with grade 8. Besides the higher hardness I like the anti corrosive properties that the coating provides.

I can't recall what bolts are used on the Roadmaster...  PROBABLY a Grade 8.  That has 5 marks.  If it is a Grade 5, it will have 3 marks.

https://www.melfast.com/blog/2014/03/a-mini-guide-on-grade-8-bolts#:~:text=Despite the popular belief%2C a,constructions or the automotive industry.

Despite the popular belief, a stainless steel bolt is actually weaker than a grade 8 bolt. In fact, according to the Society of American Engineers (SAE), grade 8 bolts are the strongest and hardest hex bolt you would want to use in constructions or the automotive industry. While the carbon alloy bolts have a proof load of over 120,000 psi, their stainless steel counterparts don't carry an indicative proof load. Moreover, the minimum strength of grade 8 bolts is around 130,000 psi, whereas stainless steel strength doesn't exceed 90,000 psi.

OK...for the Real information, either go to the IFI and research or you can use this chart.  SS is a term.  What is NEEDED is the TYPE or GRADE.

https://boltdepot.com/Fastener-Information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart

However, and I was the Chief Engineer for a large Fastener Manufacturer.....here is the simple chart.

https://boltdepot.com/Fastener-Information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart

IF the Hitch came, which I THINK most do, with Grade 8 bolts...and SS was substituted....then there is probably a reduction in the tensile strength of the bolts.  I would ALSO only USE FLAT WASHERS....  not split washers.

I discussed with the Roadmaster and they agreed, in writing, based on actually calling their vendor.  Their kits were older technology and with the newer Electronic Lab and QC equipment....the Industry standard changed.  USE FLAT WASHERS.  Roadmaster said..."Well, they have worked for a long time...maybe something we look into".

SO...for the ultimate....use Grade 8 and Flat Washer and Loctite RED.  That is what the specs say.  You CAN take apart a Loctite RED assembly by heating the bolt head with a "Pencil Tip" torch.  I remove Loctite Red Screws from Rifle Mounts....for folks that should have used Loctite Blue or Green.  Some thought it was permanent and they needed to remove the scope.  Just a little patience and understanding and being careful

That's my take and background and information.

 

[Scotty Hutto]

Just as additional info…

The Roadmaster kit came with four grade 8 bolts that carry the main load, but additionally four of the bolts original to the vehicle were reused, and they were grade 5 flange bolts. 

In my event, none of the bolts failed, but next inspection I may consider replacing the four grade 5 bolts with grade 8, if I can find the correct size and thread pitch in grade 8… I’ll check McMaster-Carr and see if I can find them. 

[jacwjames]

Tractor supply has a large assortment of bolts with a lot sold by the lb for good prices

I needed two small 5/16 bolt, that they sell by the pound.  bought some other stuff and when I checked out the clerk tried to weigh the two small bolts, not enough weight so it registered $0.  👍

Edited April 17 by jacwjames

[Dr4Film]

Just to add on to this "Check Your Base-plate" before travel thread of my recent discovery.

I had towed my 2006 Saturn Vue for the past 15 years. I recently switched vehicles back in early March to another 2006 Saturn Vue in much better condition that was already setup for towing with a Blue-Ox Base-plate. I checked the 6-way connector, it all worked correctly. I moved the RVIBrake Charge device over to the new car along with the RVIBrake seat brace for the brake unit to rest against. I also installed my dash, 30 amp, bypass switch to the lower left dash area.

Well, after closing up the house yesterday, then moving the coach out onto the access road to hook up the car. I got everything out to start connecting the car to the coach. I get my set of Blue-Ox pins out then sprayed some T9 Boseshield onto the pin and receiver and placed it into the receiver to lock it in place. Well, WTF!!! The pin was not locking into position. It would simply rotate around and around. Holy CRAP!!!

Well, as it turns out, I had no idea that Blue-Ox would make different types of pins for their base-plates. My old base-plate had used "short-short" pins whereas this base-plate uses "short-long" pins. I made a quick call to the Hitching Post in Ocala to see if they could help me. It was 3 pm by then and they closed at 5 pm so I had to get on the road NOW!

I had my wife drive the car while following me in the coach. We got there at 4:45 pm. They had the pins that I needed so $106 dollars later and an extra 85 miles of unnecessary travel plus diesel and we were back on the road to New Hampshire for the summer.

There isn't anything noticeably different between the two vehicles except that my old one was FWD and this new one is AWD. The front ends of each car looked exactly the same.

BTW, when I installed the new pins, each one was "leaning" to the passenger side of the car versus having the slot for the tow bar connector ideally straight up and down. Obviously, the fabricator at Blue-Ox must have had a few too many beverages for lunch before welding the pin receivers to the base-plate. Luckily, the tow bar connectors do compensate for their manufacturing error.

All is well!