Suggestions on new refrigerator to replace original Norcold

[Knight 40 PLQ]

Good morning, the 2006 Norcold is showing signs of age, it's in a 2006 Monaco Knight with the furnace below, any suggestions will be appreciated.  One that fits without a lot of modifications, thanks Tim

[MurrayD]

I went with the Fisher & Paykal, it’s pricey but the more commonly used Samsung is just not reliable. If your fridge fails it’s not as simple as sliding a new one in like at home, so I chose the best available. It’s been 3 years and have had zero issues, it runs fine on the MSW inverter. I easily lowered the floor above the furnace a little just to make it easier for the wife to reach the top shelf, but it would fit without doing that. Don’t forget to rewire the GFCI receptacle in the bathroom to put the fridge wires on the line side, you don’t want a fridge on a ground fault circuit. I had some stainless steel angles fabbed up at my local metal supermarket to finish out the trim.

[birdshill123]

Nice clean install. Murray, why can't the fridge  be on a gfci?

[MurrayD]

The NEC has stipulated in the code that refrigerators are not permitted to be on GFCI. I’m not sure of the reasoning, but I know ice makers can cause nuisance tripping, which is why your Norcold had a non GFCI receptacle for the ice maker. Nuisance tripping for a compressor will cause damage to it, not to mention food spoiling if you don’t notice the GFCI has been tripped.

[jacwjames]

I got lucky and found a Samsung RF18 on clearance at Lowes for $865 and decided to buy.  Actually used it in the house we were building until we got the standard size when the house was finished. 

I knew sooner or later the Norcold would fail and that I could use the Samsung there.  In 2018 the Norcold failed and I installed the Samsung in 2019.  Didn't get a lot of use until after Covid was over but since then have used it for ~2 years of use without a problem.  In 2021 I was SD, outside temps got to 105F but the Samsung dropped ice all day long.   Wife just fired it up to get ready to go on a trip, it made almost a full tray of ice in about 2 days.  Not bad and it is cold and holds temps well.  

I know there have been reports of the Samsung failing, this is more associated with full size residential units.  But there have several report in RV use.  

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, MurrayD said:

The NEC has stipulated in the code that refrigerators are not permitted to be on GFCI. I’m not sure of the reasoning, but I know ice makers can cause nuisance tripping, which is why your Norcold had a non GFCI receptacle for the ice maker. Nuisance tripping for a compressor will cause damage to it, not to mention food spoiling if you don’t notice the GFCI has been tripped.

One of our members is a code fanatic. He posted a year or so back that the NEW "NEC" required GFCI. I saw the post...could not get the hard copy.

I TOTALLY agree with you. From a practical standpoint and being friends for 30 odd years with a licensed plumbing and electrical contractor...his GFCI tales totally say what I have been preaching. 

I recommend, and 90% of the Monaco's are wired this way, removing the Icemaker line from the LOAD side of the GFCI. The load usually has TWO lines.  One for the CODE REQUIRED GFCI and the other for the REST of the stuff.  TV and HEC and Icemaker and such. That is a recipe for disaster...you put in a NEW (they get old) GFCI. Determine that ALL the CODE required outlets are protected...and then move the ICEMAKER to line.

There is NO discussion, so I assume it was well known that the Samsung RF18 does NOT like backdoor temps below freezing. ALl the insulation on the side walls has to be removed for air circulation...then insulate the bottom rear cover (your VENT and if louvers in the frame...THEM. Same for the top side vent or if a rooftop vent...stuff with Fiberglass batt insulation.

Then the air circulating around the RF18 is CONDITIONED from the inside. You no LONGER have the CO2 issue...so no need for the Norcold insulation.

Great job...

[Brad Loehr]

By any chance have you checked with Norcold if there is an outstanding recall on your fridge?  I have a Norcold 1200RIM with ice maker and the original owner did not know there was a recall on the unit.  Now 19 years later I get a new cooling unit installed for free.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment-detail/NORCOLD/REFRIGERATOR/a__58218#recalls

To verify the recall you will need to email Norcold with the cooling unit and fridge unit serial numbers.  Then have a certified Norcold dealer tech R & R the cooling unit.

I have my recall replacement ordered and will be installed soon.

[hex_nut]

A lot depends on the condition of your Norcold.  If the cabinet is in good condition (doors, seals, hinges, etc...), I would recommend having a 12 volt DC compressor unit installed in it.  If your cabinet is worn out, then I would look into replacing it with a 12 volt DC compressor complete unit.  I installed a Samsung RF18 about 6 years ago and have been happy with it.  However, the 12 volt DC compressor units were not readily available then.  If I had to do it over, I would seriously consider avoiding the double inverting, converting losses of powering a 120 volt AC residential unit from 12 volt batteries.  I have not personally used a 12 volt DC compressor unit, but I have been impressed by the technology and the good reviews.  I have heard good things about JCRefigeration units, but have no personal experience with them.  Much research is recommended.  Good luck.

Richard 

[timaz996]

8 hours ago, MurrayD said:

I went with the Fisher & Paykal, it’s pricey but the more commonly used Samsung is just not reliable. If your fridge fails it’s not as simple as sliding a new one in like at home, so I chose the best available. It’s been 3 years and have had zero issues, it runs fine on the MSW inverter. I easily lowered the floor above the furnace a little just to make it easier for the wife to reach the top shelf, but it would fit without doing that. Don’t forget to rewire the GFCI receptacle in the bathroom to put the fridge wires on the line side, you don’t want a fridge on a ground fault circuit. I had some stainless steel angles fabbed up at my local metal supermarket to finish out the trim.

What model FP fridge did you get?

[joefromperry]

I did not want to lose the propane option, so I went with JC Refrigeration's conversion options; there are a few, including compressors and the propane/electric option.  JC-Refrigeration.com

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by joefromperry

[MurrayD]

The model number is RF170ADX4 N

[Gweedo]

I installed the samsung RF18 not quite two years ago.  I didn't have the heater to condend with, I added a couple 3/4 plywood on the bottom to secure with several large screws, slipped right in.  Sealed off the wall vents, it only pulls 2-amps crazy, very cold and freezes like a rock.  I keep the ice maker off.  Made the plug 110 by changing the feed wire in the GFI.  Inverter runs it no problem.    

[CAT Stephen]

On 5/19/2024 at 12:06 PM, Knight 40 PLQ said:

Good morning, the 2006 Norcold is showing signs of age, it's in a 2006 Monaco Knight with the furnace below, any suggestions will be appreciated.  One that fits without a lot of modifications, thanks Tim

@Knight 40 PLQ,

 

It depends on what you are looking for.  So, here are questions for you:

- Do you want to continue the option of running on propane?

- Can you describe how your Norcold is showing signs of age?

- Are you interested in changing to a residential refrigerator? (This path will requires special modifications)

[timaz996]

MODERATOR EDIT.  Was merged with a current topic discussing alternative refrigerators. END of Edit.

 

Does anyone have the JC Refrigeration 19 CF 12volt Unit in their coach?
If so, how do you like it?

Specs

• Black fridge box with Stainless Steel Doors
• LED lighting – Find exactly what you’ve been looking for under crisp, clear lighting
• Top controls with digital display of the fridge and freezer temperature settings
• The Fridge section has 3 glass shelves and 2 crisper drawers with 11.7 cubic ft.
• The Freezer has 2 drawers, with baskets, with 6.7 cubic ft.
• Dual compressor cooling system
• Average Amp Draw of 71 watts (5.9 amps at 12 volts)
• Unit is charged with R134A freon (non-explosive freon)
• Cabinet opening minimum dimensions 33″ width x 73″ height***
• Fridge box dimensions 33w X 28.8d X 72″h or 25″ deep without doors
• 2-year limited warranty
• Made in the USA

***The cabinet opening height can be as low as 72″ if the perimeter between the fridge sides and top and cabinet are sealed off with insulation and the back vents are left open so the compressors can breathe thru the outside vents.

Edited May 26, 2024 by Tom Cherry
Merged into current to

[Tom Cherry]

Merged the above. Per guidelines, a search is required. …. here is a search result of such…

https://www.monacoers.org/search/?&q=JC refrigeration&quick=1&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

[RIPPPA]

Question, I just installed 1000w of solar panels on the roof to maintain the batteries while my coach is in storage off and on during June - Oct in Colorado but recently notice my Norcold is pulling around 30 amps when it should be pulling around 8 amps. Why is it pulling so many amps?  

[Brad Loehr]

30 minutes ago, RIPPPA said:

Question, I just installed 1000w of solar panels on the roof to maintain the batteries while my coach is in storage off and on during June - Oct in Colorado but recently notice my Norcold is pulling around 30 amps when it should be pulling around 8 amps. Why is it pulling so many amps?  

Not sure what is exactly going on there but I would stop using that fridge immediately.  If you are pulling 30 amps you would need a minimum 10 gauge wire which I know there is not going to the fridge (30 amps is max limit for 10 gauge wiring).  I am not sure how you are not popping your breakers?  Hopefully there is no smoke about to be let out of the circuit or fridge.

I ran a Switchbot smart plug on my Norcold and I noticed it would consistently pull around 500-600 watts of power which is around 4.2 to 5 amps of 120 volt.  I only have about 2 months of data before I decided to throw out the Nevercold.

 

Moho Fridge_data.csv

[Tom Cherry]

11 hours ago, RIPPPA said:

Question, I just installed 1000w of solar panels on the roof to maintain the batteries while my coach is in storage off and on during June - Oct in Colorado but recently notice my Norcold is pulling around 30 amps when it should be pulling around 8 amps. Why is it pulling so many amps?  

OK….need to define and clarify.  The Norcold has TWO 225 watt 120 VAC heaters.  That is 450 watts.  If the batteries are good, the voltage will drop to around 12.3 or so…..now…if solar is keeping up, we’ll use 12.7…100%SOC.  That calcuates into DC amps of 35.4.  The heaters are either (both run…) ON or OFF.  Didn’t know what the Control Panel pulls….  But if the icemaker mold is heating up….a BUNCH.  Use an Ammeter or look at the prints and the fuses.  So…add in the NORMAL running amps of DC power….remember…the fans run.  UPDATE….The specs or posts on other sites, WO icemaker are in the 3 -5 DC amp range.

ERGO…35 plus 5 = 40 AMPS of DC power if one is running on total DC and using the electric heaters.  On Propane, the draw will be less than 5 VDC…

On AC, that 4 Amps 115 VAC….

[Dragracer]

I went with the Frigidaire FFHT1425VV that I got from Home Depot. The refrigerator is stainless steel and fit in the same spot has the nocold. After I installed it, I did add some wood trimming around the hole to fill in a small gap that was left. The nocold was sitting on OSB that I replaced with 3/4” treated plywood. To tie the Frigidare down I drilled 2 holes all the way through the floor & installed two 3/4 eye bolts that I hooked a ratchet strap over the top of the refrigerator hold it in place. I also bolted the front legs to the plywood. At first I hooked it up into the electrical plug the nocold was plugged into. From all the hooking up to  shore power  then going to generator bank to shore power it was messing with the auto defrost system on the refrigerator. Then I installed a DeWalt power inverter rated at 1000 watts. The refrigerator pulls less than 400 Watts. I wanted a bit larger inverter so it wouldn’t overheat on hot days. I mounted the inverter in the storage compartment underneath where the refrigerator sets. I hooked the inverter up to the house batteries so now the refrigerator never loses power when you go from shore power to generator. The refrigerator works excellent now I haven’t had no problem since I hooked it up to an inverter. To get it in in the Diplomat I took the doors off it and it came in through the entry door to the motorhome with no problem. I took a sawzall and cut the nocold into pieces to get it out. If you do decide to cut up a nocold be aware that they have ammonia in them. I was able to cut mine up without cutting through any of the ammonia lines.

 

[CAT Stephen]

@Dragracer,

 

You provided an excellent writeup for installing the Frigidaire FFHT1425VV!

Can you provide the detail of how you bolted the front legs to the plywood?  I am having difficulty visualizing that.

[RIPPPA]

On 8/4/2024 at 8:14 AM, Tom Cherry said:

OK….need to define and clarify.  The Norcold has TWO 225 watt 120 VAC heaters.  That is 450 watts.  If the batteries are good, the voltage will drop to around 12.3 or so…..now…if solar is keeping up, we’ll use 12.7…100%SOC.  That calcuates into DC amps of 35.4.  The heaters are either (both run…) ON or OFF.  Didn’t know what the Control Panel pulls….  But if the icemaker mold is heating up….a BUNCH.  Use an Ammeter or look at the prints and the fuses.  So…add in the NORMAL running amps of DC power….remember…the fans run.  UPDATE….The specs or posts on other sites, WO icemaker are in the 3 -5 DC amp range.

ERGO…35 plus 5 = 40 AMPS of DC power if one is running on total DC and using the electric heaters.  On Propane, the draw will be less than 5 VDC…

On AC, that 4 Amps 115 VAC….

I don’t have a ice maker in my Norcold 

[Dragracer]

1 hour ago, CAT Stephen said:

@Dragracer,

 

You provided an excellent writeup for installing the Frigidaire FFHT1425VV!

Can you provide the detail of how you bolted the front legs to the plywood?  I am having difficulty visualizing that.

I built a frame to go under the plywood out of 2x2x1/4” angle iron. I welded the angle iron together ( outside of the motorhome) & used that to set the plywood on. I took the front roller wheels off the refrigerator & drilled through the roller wheel brackets into the angle iron. Like I posted earlier I put a ratchet strap over the top of it. I bolted the front legs down so the fridge couldn’t slide out. 

[GringoScot]

 Knight 40 PLQ, I have a Knight 40 PLQ as well and recently had the Norcold leak out all of the ammonia.  We found a nice Frigidaire at a Best Buy outlet store for around $850.00  I documented the process on this forum, under upgrades

I believe this has been my wife's favorite upgrade to date.  I just updated the 4 golf cart batteries to a LiFePo4 and the Magnum ME2012 B inverter to a pure sign MS2012 B so we can run the refrigerator off of the inverter while traveling.  This worked out well on my recent 1.250 mile round trip from SA, TX to Evansville, IN.  I did add some (ugly) travel brackets after the first speed bump leaving the RV resort as added insurance during transport.  These immediately come off after we dock as my wife cannot stand the sight of such 🙂 .  I have a plethora of photos that I can PM you as reference if you decide to go a similar route.  Again, probably one of if not THE best upgrades we have made to our Knight.

Edited August 17, 2024 by GringoScot

[Tom Cherry]

59 minutes ago, GringoScot said:

 Knight 40 PLQ, I have a Knight 40 PLQ as well and recently had the Norcold leak out all of the ammonia.  We found a nice Frigidaire at a Best Buy outlet store for around $850.00  I documented the process on this forum, under upgrades

I believe this has been my wife's favorite upgrade to date.  I just updated the 4 golf cart batteries to a LiFePo4 and the Magnum ME2012 B inverter to a pure sign MS2012 B so we can run the refrigerator off of the inverter while traveling.  This worked out well on my recent 1.250 mile round trip from SA, TX to Evansville, IN.  I did add some (ugly) travel brackets after the first speed bump leaving the RV resort as added insurance during transport.  These immediately come off after we dock as my wife cannot stand the sight of such 🙂 .  I have a plethora of photos that I can PM you as reference if you decide to go a similar route.  Again, probably one of if not THE best upgrades we have made to our Knight.

GOOD SHOW.  I just read your POST on BIRD is the WORD.  YOU DID IT RIGHT.  Very NICE.

For those that are following and are FLABBERGASTED at congratulating someone for DARING to use a Magnum as part of a Lithium Upgrade.  RELAX.  I am STILL of the same opinion.  Scot UPGRADED and has a NEW MAGNUM.  The useful life will be in the 12 - 15 - whatever LIFE SPAN.  AND, he has a Magnum that has been upgraded to work with LITHIUMS.  My position on using a 20 odd year old Magnum and Remote and GAMBLING on the Reliability STILL STANDS.  It is really hard to MESS UP the Buggy Whip FLA.   BUT, with technology that is 20 years of date and the recent failures of the Magnums...  And we have resolved that.  The Heat Sink Compound that is used for 100% Heat Transfer from the FET's to the Heat Sinks is failing.  Therefore, they must be operated more cautiously....as in MUCH LOWER charging rates and with external venitlation.  OTHERWISE the Boards FAIL.  With that in the Inverter and the known failures of the Remotes, then the life expectancy or "TURNING THE LITHIUMS INTO BOAT ANCHORS" is much higher.  

Thanks for the posts....here and on the BIRD.  We LOVE our Samsung.....as in WHY DID WE WAIT SO LONG.

 

[timaz996]

On 5/26/2024 at 10:57 AM, Tom Cherry said:

Merged the above. Per guidelines, a search is required. …. here is a search result of such…

https://www.monacoers.org/search/?&q=JC refrigeration&quick=1&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

I know I’m very late with a response to this. But the JC refrigeration unit I was referring to is a new household style refrigerator that is 12 V. I actually had this unit installed on 23 July and I am very very happy with it.