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Water pump may have frozen


jimmcpheters

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We were in/under 8 inches of snow last week.  Temps at night were single digit. Either water pump froze or minimal amount of water in fresh water tank froze. Regardless,  no running water in coach. Used hair dryer to get it working . Now home and  none of switches will turn water pump on. Fuse is fine, 10 amp. Any relays anywhere i should be looking for? 

There was a lot of water in and on coach when ice and snow on roof started to melt. Everything is dry now.

 

Jim McPheters 

08 dip 40 pdq

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My water pump has a fuse in the 12 volt panel in the bedroom, the latching controller that Richard posted, an in-line fuse near the pump and a relay that actually provides power to the pump.  Anyone of those could be wrong not to mention the pump itself. 

Edited by jacwjames
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Guest Ray Davis

It is probably the Latching Controller that Richard showed above.    Mine is mounted on the wall just above the water pump .

Are you sure the pump has thawed completely?

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Thanks for the incredibly prompt replies. My 10 amp fuse is in fuse panel in rear bedroom.  I find no sign of a relay near there,  nor an in line fuse near the water pump in the service bay or any other relays. I know it's possible the pump is gone, but want to rule out other items first. Pump is going to be a bear to remove.

 

Jim

08 Dip

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When minevfroze several years ago it showed the same symptoms.  I finally traced the problem to the pressure switch in the pump. Unfortunately a replacement switch wasn't available so I had to replace the entire pump. 

If you can get to the wires going to the pump check to see if you have 12 volts. If you do the problem is the pump motor or the pressure switch. If no 12 volts then keep looking for devices already mentioned by others above.

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3 hours ago, Harvey Babb said:

When minevfroze several years ago it showed the same symptoms.  I finally traced the problem to the pressure switch in the pump. Unfortunately a replacement switch wasn't available so I had to replace the entire pump. 

If you can get to the wires going to the pump check to see if you have 12 volts. If you do the problem is the pump motor or the pressure switch. If no 12 volts then keep looking for devices already mentioned by others above.

When the pressure switch on mine was damaged by a slow water leak, I removed the microswitch and replaced it with one I purchased from a local electronic component supplier over here in the U.K. Check Amazon.com for USA, and a more exact match to the exact component.

image.thumb.png.0ce638730ce37902cb1eb27e3d0e78e7.png

Edited by hitechpete
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Thanks for the incredibly prompt replies. My 10 amp fuse is in fuse panel in rear bedroom.  I find no sign of a relay near there,  nor an in line fuse near the water pump in the service bay or any other relays. I know it's possible the pump is gone, but want to rule out other items first. Pump is going to be a bear to remove.

 

Jim

08 Dip

I was able to apply direct power to the pump today and it worked fine. Also searched every orifice I could find in coach and never found any sign of a relay or even a green circuit board. I did find a couple of great hiding places or storage areas during my search though.  Been in service bay, under all 3 sinks, top of water heater, outside compartment of refrigerator,  compartment  next to service bay, by inverter etc. None of the 3 momentary switches will activate the pump. Maybe just replace the 10 amp fuse for kicks. Any of you have an 08 diplomat 40 pdq specifically?

 

Jim McPheters 08 dip

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The latching relay could be almost anywhere near one of the existing switches.  If you have a wiring diagram it may give you some leads as to it's location.  You may have to buy a wire tracer to find it. 

I have read other posts where the latching relay was mounted behind the panel that has monitoring system for the coach.  

 

 

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10 hours ago, jimmcpheters said:

Thanks, I asked for any and all. Hope that covers it, and specifically for pump and relay.

 

Jim

Jim, you have a Shurflo pump.  

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/need-make-model-for-water-pump-for-diplomat-40pdq-431826.html

You MUST find the Pump Controller.  You have THREE switches that operate the pump. They are all tied together. When you push one button, that signals the Latching Relay. It will turn "ON". If you push that button again or one of the others, the switch (spring loaded) will send another signal and turn it off. All of your SWITCHES are spring loaded.  Each of the three switches are in parallel or tied together so that one signal or push will pulse (Goes from ON to OFF or vice versa).

Therefore you need to keep looking. Typically the switch will say "Intellitec". IF for some reason, you have toggle switches and they are ON or OFF, then someone rewired the system. The OEM configuration is for the controller. The prints are not going to be of any help. They do NOT show WHERE the Controller is located. There is also a Pressure Switch in the circuit. I don't know WHERE that is located. It will come ON when the pressure is low. It COULD be that the pressure switch is defective or was damaged. If you find the pressure switch, then pull the terminals or jumper across the wires.  If the pump comes on, then that is the issue.

Maybe a 2008 DIP owner can chime in here.

Good luck. NOW if you have a bad pressure switch and the pump is erratic, then most folks abandon the Shurflow and put in a Remco Aqaua 55 RV pump.  It has the Pressure switch installed or part of the pump. VERY GOOD PUMP.

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Guest Ray Davis

 Good morning Jim ,   We have a couple of Bobs on here and they both have Diplomats.  I'm not sure but I think it was Bob Nodine that posted on IRV2 about his wet     bay along with pictures showing where his pump and it's controller is located.   I couldn't find the post I was looking for quick enough, but I found this one where he     says his controller is behind the white wall in the wet bay , post # 4 .          https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/water-pump-latching-relay-413379.html    As I recall he made modifications to the white plastic wall because things were so incredibly hard to get to .   Hopefully the two Bobs will see this and chime in so they can shed some light on where to find the controller and how best to go about it .

Edited by Ray Davis
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Tom and Ray are spot on. Monaco always mounted the Controller(Latching Relay) close to the water pump either in plain sight or behind a removable wall.

I have attached a wiring schematic from a Dynasty.All Monaco Coaches that the pump is turned on by rocker switches are wired this way.

Water pump schematic Dynasty03_WD.pdf

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As others have said, the water pump controller in the 08 Diplomat is mounted on the wall in the water compartment.  The controller is in the ground or low side of the circuit.  You need to check the voltage at the pump.  If you have 12 volts without the pump running on both terminals than the fuse is okay.  If you don't have 12 volts to a ground you have a bad fuse.  In addition to the fuse in the bedroom which is for the control circuit, on mine there is a fuse in the front run bay.  I can't find anything regarding a label or number except maybe 42, 44, 46 which are shown as a 15 amp spare.  However, check all the fuses on the house side in the front run distribution in the compartment below the driver's window.  If you have 12 volts on both sides, then have someone  press a switch.  The voltage on one side of the pump should go to ground.  If it doesn't go to ground than the controller is bad.

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21 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

 Good morning Jim ,   We have a couple of Bobs on here and they both have Diplomats.  I'm not sure but I think it was Bob Nodine that posted on IRV2 about his wet     bay along with pictures showing where his pump and it's controller is located.   I couldn't find the post I was looking for quick enough, but I found this one where he     says his controller is behind the white wall in the wet bay , post # 4 .          https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/water-pump-latching-relay-413379.html    As I recall he made modifications to the white plastic wall because things were so incredibly hard to get to .   Hopefully the two Bobs will see this and chime in so they can shed some light on where to find the controller and how best to go about it .

Sorry to be late to this thread. As usual Ray is correct. I did post photos of the location of the latching relay and the snap disk. I will post them here. Keep in mind that I have a 2006 Diplomat but the 2008 most likely is the same. The snap disk and the latching relay are located in a ridiculously difficult place to access. You must remove the white panel to access them and the Monaco folks who made this decision must have been smoking some good stuff. I have modified my service bay and cut away the top of the white panel and upgraded the water pump and moved it up to the ceiling of the bay. I also added a surge tank. The latching relay is located high up in the bay on the frame rail. See the photos below.

 1297985495_Latchingrelayandsnapdisklocation.thumb.jpg.7dc4c95741780e4b926a1992c782e6a1.jpg

Snap disk location.jpg

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Guest Ray Davis
2 hours ago, Bob Nodine said:

As usual Ray is correct.

 Thank you Bob,  I'm going to frame what you said and show it to my DW everyday.   :dance:

 Hum, I probably should reconsider doing that.   :blush:

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5 hours ago, Bob Nodine said:

Sorry to be late to this thread. As usual Ray is correct. I did post photos of the location of the latching relay and the snap disk. I will post them here. Keep in mind that I have a 2006 Diplomat but the 2008 most likely is the same. The snap disk and the latching relay are located in a ridiculously difficult place to access. You must remove the white panel to access them and the Monaco folks who made this decision must have been smoking some good stuff. I have modified my service bay and cut away the top of the white panel and upgraded the water pump and moved it up to the ceiling of the bay. I also added a surge tank. The latching relay is located high up in the bay on the frame rail. See the photos below.

 1297985495_Latchingrelayandsnapdisklocation.thumb.jpg.7dc4c95741780e4b926a1992c782e6a1.jpg

Snap disk location.jpg

Bob,

Curiosity....

The Pump Relay or Controller has an incoming pigtail. If I look carefully at the photo, there appears to be some wires coming OUT of it and going to the lower left.

Is the Pigtail and the adapter in the picture the INPUT.  That would have to be Power (RED), Ground (color?) and the THREE Switch Contacts. 

The output from the controller should be Power (Red) and Ground..

I ASSUME that he Snapdisk is for the System Heat.

IF I understand the DIP's circuit, there is a pressure switch SOMEWHERE in the circuit. That has to be an ON /OFF switch. I don't quite understand, without a print, how that works.  Is the Pressure Switch downstream of the OUTPUT or the LOAD from the Intellitec? SO, if the pump is on (Controller is latched to ON) and the pressure is OFF (as in it has reached the preset limit) then the pump will not run until the pressure drops and the Pressure Switch Closes.  Is that how it works?

This is a WILD @$&  Idea for Jim, the ORIGINAL Poster....  Tearing into the back side of the water cover panel is MORE than a PITA.  I would consider doing this...

Getting the Diagram - Hopefully, you, Bob has it.  I would access the wet bay (I have a panel) and find that harness.  I would then use some "pins" and puncture the wires.  I would verify the THREE Switch Leads.  I would verity the RED (Power). I would verify Ground.

After that, I would purchase a NEW Intellitec Controller ($35). I would purchase a Bosch relay and socket ($10).  I would purchase an AquaJet RV55 Pump ($210) and replumb and rewire that puppy.  

Use the ORIGINAL Switch leads to the NEW controller.  Hook it up the way is should be. BUT, I would then install a Bosch Relay for the Pump.  SOME folks have had to bump up the 10 amp fuse for the Pump to 15.  You COULD just hook it up and if the 10 Amp fuse ever blew...then add the Bosch. BUT, if you put in the Bosch Relay and used the Controller Output for the Relay and switched the Power on the relay, they you will never have any issues with the controller. Adding the relay when you did the install will take maybe 10 minutes longer.  You can STILL leave in the 10 amp use.  You tap into the RED on the INCOMING side of the Controller and use that power for the Bosch. 

That is what I did on my Sanicon when they upped the motor amperage.  

That would give Jim a NEW water system and one that would purr like a kitten.  He PROBABLY has an accumlator which he can remove or leave in place. He abandons the pressure switch as the AquaJet has a build in controller.  I would NOT attempt to take that panel off for $500 nor would I pay anyone.  

Just my thoughts.  HOW if he can reach around or up or whatever and snatch off the wiring and mount a new one elsewhere AND get to the Pressure Switch...MAYBE.  BUT, based on is posts...he is NOT getting a signal from the controller....which also maybe a faulty pressure switch.  SIMPLIFY it and have a better and more reliable and quieter system...

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