2004 Dynasty - Batteries overcharging - possibly solar issues.

[Guest rangerboat]

2004 Monaco Dynasty, 40 ft w/tag axle.

We have the Aladdin system with 2, 100W (?) (Original) solar panels on top. The unit is not plugged into shore power.  It is sitting in a storage lot. There are four 6 volt house batteries and this is the main concern. When I take a reading of the individual batteries with my digital meter, I get ranges from 7 to 7.5 volts on individuals and 15.2- 15.7 volts on combined when the sun is shining brightly. Those numbers drop into the 14’s as the sun hides behind a cloud. This is a concern and, I wonder if it should be. I question why the battery voltage regulator would allow this. I have always thought that charging rates around 14.5 volts should be maximum input charge on the batteries and numbers into the 15’s could/would be harmful. To my thinking, I’m overcharging!   What say you?

Recently, running down the road, I started the generator and turned on the overhead a/c’s. Within five minutes the battery overcharge on the dash started flashing. I shut it all down and the overcharge icon disappeared. I think something is not right. Any suggestions?

[Tom Wallis]

I agree with you that the batteries are overcharging and that the voltage shouldn't be much more than 14.5v. The first thing I would do is check the battery water. If they are in fact overcharging they may be low. I'd be suspicious of those readings though. I'm not sure your solar panels are capable of bringing good batteries up to that high of a voltage.

[Bjohnsonmn]

Yes, that is concerning. Perhaps a voltage regulator failed or there is a persistent setting that changed for some reason.

A different setup but similar situation happened with ours. We had the Monaco 30amp controller with 400w of panels on the roof. The previous owner cooked the batteries. The first sign that there was something wrong should have been that they needed a computer fan mounted over the back of the solar controller to keep it from overheating.

Can you share more details about the components you have (expand on Aladin system)?

[Rocketman3]

On the overcharge from Solar…

if the battery temp wire is disconnected or corroded away , I believe the solar charge controller thinks the batteries are very cold - if cold they need a higher charge - so it ramps up the voltage to 15v - which is way too high (unless it is really cold).

You could look in your solar charge controller manual and see if you can flip a switch so stop the temperature adjustments. 
 

Also, another option is to change out the solar charge controller.  On my 2000 Dynasty, when I removed it - it had wires to both the house battery and the chassis battery. I pulled the fuse for the chassis battery, and replaced it with a Victron 100/30 ( I also removed the 80w solar panel and replaced it with two 210w panels - re-used all the same wires - just replaced the fuse with a 30 amp fuse).

For your inverter/charger (via your generator or grid) to give too much voltage the same thing may be occurring- the temp sensor has corroded away .

Both of these problems are probably cooking your batteries when they are occurring. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Rocketman3
Edited for clarity

[Guest rangerboat]

31 minutes ago, Tom Wallis said:

I agree with you that the batteries are overcharging and that the voltage shouldn't be much more than 14.5v. The first thing I would do is check the battery water. If they are in fact overcharging they may be low. I'd be suspicious of those readings though. I'm not sure your solar panels are capable of bringing good batteries up to that high of a voltage.

Thanks Tom. I keep check on the water levels and, while they tend to go down more quickly than I would like (adding small amounts every week or so), I do keep them above the plates and, below the fill holes. I have to think it is in the voltage regulator not working.

[Ivan K]

Almost looks like if the solar charger was stuck in an equalizing mode if it has that option. Not quite there because the panels may not supply enough power so it just sits there. No idea what controller you've got.

[Guest rangerboat]

Will be heading down to coach tomorrow for re-check. I don't know the info on the panels. Thanks. Will get more info.

Rocketman

Thanks for you thoughts. I'll be checking more info tomorrow. The temperature could be the main culprit. I'm at a loss.

Malcolm

[waterskier_1]

I agree with the above comments regarding the solar charge controller.  I am confused about you statement regarding going down the road and having an overcharging light come on.  I've never seen that light on my 05 Exec - didn't knots that there was such light.  In any case, if you batteries are also showing overcharge while driving, presumably charging from the alternator, then it is not just the solar charge controller.  It might be the batteries, or a bad meter.  It is unlikely that two or more charging sources are bad, by the same amount. 

  -Rick N 

[georgecederholm]

19 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

I agree with the above comments regarding the solar charge controller.  I am confused about you statement regarding going down the road and having an overcharging light come on.  I've never seen that light on my 05 Exec - didn't knots that there was such light.  In any case, if you batteries are also showing overcharge while driving, presumably charging from the alternator, then it is not just the solar charge controller.  It might be the batteries, or a bad meter.  It is unlikely that two or more charging sources are bad, by the same amount. 

  -Rick N 

Rick,

I think the solar controller (probably a Heliotrope RV-45A in a 2004 Dynasty) likely doesn’t have a cut-out for when another charging source is active. I think that when the OP is driving on a sunny day, he’s likely getting charge to the chassis bank where the dash alert would be measured from all three sources: generator (assuming the battery isolator, probably a Big Boy, is working), alternator, and solar (assuming the chassis circuit fuse is OK). I think that if the solar controller is malfunctioning or stuck in equalization mode, it’s excess voltage would still pass through to the batteries. Could be that its output isn’t enough to trip the dash alarm when just the engine is running, but once the generator is on, the cumulative charge exceeds the alarm trigger?

[Tom Wallis]

All good charging systems are voltage regulated. They don't give a cumulative effect. When multiple systems are trying to charge the one set for the highest voltage will do the lions share of the charging and the others will cut back.

That being said, 200 watts of solar can only produce around 13 amps at 15v. That's not much more than a trickle charge for the 4 6v batteries here and wouldn't be capable of raising their voltage to 15+ volts even if the solar regulator was bad.

There must be something else at play here.

[Guest rangerboat]

Thanks Tom. I agree that something is amiss. I took it to the local RV shop and they said that all was well and charged me $400. I don't think they understand the system. Any ideas close to Vero Beach, FL?

[Guest rangerboat]

Thanks everyone for the input. Frankly, it's above my pay grade. The batteries are basically fried...hold a slight charge but go down within minutes of interior halogen lights on.

[Tom Wallis]

The batteries might be the whole problem. I would replace them first and make sure they've had time to fully change and then check the voltage again. 

[Guest rangerboat]

Yes indeed, they could be the batteries but, they are only 13 months in, are Trojans. It's a guessing game now but, hope I can find someone that knows the system.

[RS lakeshore]

17 hours ago, rangerboat said:

Thanks Tom. I agree that something is amiss. I took it to the local RV shop and they said that all was well and charged me $400. I don't think they understand the system. Any ideas close to Vero Beach, FL?

There's a rv service in Sebastian FL. I think it is called Indian river rv. Bought a part there but haven't used their service department. 

[Guest rangerboat]

Thanks Richard

It was Indian River RV in Sebastian that told me that everything was working well. I went back to the coach today and found the batteries reading 15.24 volts combined and 7.43 volts for the single 6 volt batteries. I know there is a problem!

So, I removed the ground line and the voltage dropped to 13.4 after about 5 minutes. I think there is a problem with the voltage regulator coming through the Heliotrope system. That will be my next investigation. Any ideas anyone?

[Ivan K]

When you look at the back of the solar charger that you mentioned, you'll find a dipswith that can set the voltage all the way to over16v. Could be your problem.

[96 EVO]

58 minutes ago, rangerboat said:

 

So, I removed the ground line and the voltage dropped to 13.4 after about 5 minutes.  

Nothing unusual about that!

Anything over 12.7-12.8v is just surface charge, which will dissipate quickly when the charging source is removed.

[Ivylog]

Alternator light coming on when driving with the generator running is normal. Turning your headlights on will stop the light from coming on.

[Guest rangerboat]

To all of you that responded...my sincere thanks! We've been RVing for the past 17 years. Six of those years in our current 2004 Monaco Dynasty and 11 years in a 1995 Country Coach Intrigue (which I'm sorry I sold...a great coach!). Electrical problems have always been a challenge for me. So, here's what I know to date.

In outdoor storage with no shore power and everything shut down, ignition key off, this is where I get the elevated readings (house batteries) of 15.4-7+ volts combined and 7.4+volts on the 6 volt batteries. If I remove the ground wire, and wait for surface charge to dissipate, voltage drops to 12.8V. When I start the engine, the voltage goes into the normal charge rates of 13+ volts and all appears OK. Chassis battery goes to 14.2v.

The charge controller is a Heliotrope RV-45D which, I know little about. Does the current flow from the solar panels to the charge controller and then on to the Trace Inverter and then to the batteries or does it go from charge controller to the batteries and then to the Trace? I sure wish I could find schematics and/or manuals for the Heliotrope and the Trace.

Unfortunately I have returned the coach to Indian River RV and asked them to check out the charge controller. I am unable physically to get under and into the basement to check the electrical functions.

There is one other unknown. Last summer I replaced the Big Boy. It was a straight exchange; I didn't do anything else except replace that. Ordered it from Amazon. I should have listened to Paul Whittle.

The question came up from Rocketman3 about the battery temperature sensor. I have had this taped alongside the positive terminal close to the battery post. I'm not even sure how to check to see if this is working. Any further comments here? There is no corrosion to be noted on the BTS.

This about sums it all up at this point. I'll give an update probably Tuesday after Indian River RV checks it out. Again, thanks everyone.

 

[Jdw12345]

Rangerboat, did you ever get this resolved, it appears that I’m having a similar issue with my 05 Dynasty. 
 Thanks 

[Tom Cherry]

On 5/1/2022 at 1:47 PM, rangerboat said:

Thanks Tom. I keep check on the water levels and, while they tend to go down more quickly than I would like (adding small amounts every week or so), I do keep them above the plates and, below the fill holes. I have to think it is in the voltage regulator not working.

May I suggest the Battery Miser Caps.  Amazon has them. They are like a mini Distallation Tower.  They do not let the water escape and then it condenses and drops back in.  That will NOT fix the issue, but you will have less maintenance. Many of us use them with excellent results. I rarely add more than an ounce to my batteries every 4 - 6 months....some not at all.

BTW...I changed the title to provide more info....especially good if folks want to search later on.

[Rocketman3]

When I replaced the Helitrope in my rig with a Victron mppt solar charge controller this is what I found for wiring (your may be different).

the roof solar panels we like 12ga wires they went into the fridge roof vent. Inside the top of the fridge they connected with some 8ga wires and ran to my Helitrope (which was just outside the bedroom).

The Helitrope had all 8ga wires a single common, a  chassis positive, and a house positive, and a temp sensor that went to the house bank. About six inches from each battery on the positive wire was a fuse.

Good Luck!

[Guest rangerboat]

Tom

Thanks for the tip on battery miser caps. I’ll get them ordered. I also like your idea on the name change. Thanks 

[Frank McElroy]

With battery miser caps, this is what my battery tray and cables look like.  When this picture was taken the batteries were about 5 years old and the cables are all original - at the time, 12 years old.  On my coach, I have 2 trays of 4 6volt batteries.  The large zip tie hold down straps work as a great alternative to the mesh straps.