tmw188 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 How many of you have switched to ES Compleat OAT or NOAT in your older Cummins. Confused on the requirements of a 2002 8.3 ISC. Looks like the Cummins Manual is saying low silicate? Looks like the OAT is a Non Nitrate Formula and the NOAT contains Nitrate?? Hard to find out what is needed. It seems maybe it depends on the radiator make-up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nolaguy Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 I went through this process a few years ago with my CAT7 engine. Ended up contacting Catapillar directly and found out I should use OAT. I would recommend contacting A friend of mine that works for Cummins suggested the same. Also note: In making the change you should drain the old coolant and flush the system (including the dash heater radiator) and then install the new coolant. Types of coolant should never be mixed and color of the coolant is not a reliable indicator of the coolant chemistry. FYI - Have you engine model and serial number handy when you contact Cummins. Often the Model alone is not enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 I had my radiator changed in 2015. The Cummins shop manager recommended the ES Compleat so that's what I went with, didn't even think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdw12345 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 When I switch it will be to ES Complete, I use it in all of my diesel equipment, they now have it in Green, used to be a blueish color. When you do this make sure you use distilled water to flush the system and for the final fill. If you do this yourself and use a chemical flush make sure and flush it all out, probably flush 3 times before the final fill. JMO. Cummins has two different chemical choices to use if you didn’t already know. It’s a big job and you have to have a number of 5 gallon pails with lids to contain the old coolant and the flushing for the job. I get my pails at a local home owned bakery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Goddard Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Earlier this month, I took my 2005 Diplomat - 400HP ISL to Cummins Coach Care for a coolant flush. Even though I do all the other PM tasks, I just wasn't prepared for the large amount of hazardous waste from a coolant flush. Cummins used ES Compleat EG. According to the technician, after using Fleetguard Cooling System Cleaner Restore Plus, the system required 3 more flushes. That would have been more than 40 gallons of waste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 So the EG I believe stands for Ethylene Glycol, which they all are, but I guess you are not using either of the others. Yours is probably Blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgy Camper Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 I have heard good thing about the OAT coolant but I'm confused by the different types. I noticed there are a couple different options in the ES Complete lineup. I'm assuming the ES Complete OAT (red label) is the OAT technology? But I've also seen a ES Complete Hybrid, not sure what this is. And what coolant filter would be compatible with the OAT coolant? I believe it would be Fleetguard WF2122 (non DCA) from my notes a couple months back. I had my coolant analyzed it's in bad shape. No oil in it but very old and very dirty. So when I change over, I need to go with something that will hopefully stop or reverse any damage that has been done! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Pudgy Camper said: I have heard good thing about the OAT coolant but I'm confused by the different types. I noticed there are a couple different options in the ES Complete lineup. I'm assuming the ES Complete OAT (red label) is the OAT technology? But I've also seen a ES Complete Hybrid, not sure what this is. And what coolant filter would be compatible with the OAT coolant? I believe it would be Fleetguard WF2122 (non DCA) from my notes a couple months back. I had my coolant analyzed it's in bad shape. No oil in it but very old and very dirty. So when I change over, I need to go with something that will hopefully stop or reverse any damage that has been done! There are 3 ES Compleat products. •ES Compleat OAT (Organic Acid Technology) •ES Compleat NOAT (Nitrited Organic Technology) •ES Compleat EG (the Blue stuff) I think they put the EG after all of them sometimes for Ethanol Glycol And I think two others in FG lineup. It is all very confusing and it doesn’t help when they all say similar things. It also appears after careful searching you can get them all in diluted formulations which took me awhile to find. I think for most of us it would be the ES Compleat OAT or the ES Compleat EG. I attached a video and a link for reading that might help. Listen very close. https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/heavy-duty-truck-required-coolant-engine-help/ It also appears at least on the ES Compleat EG (blue stuff) and possibly on all of them that testing might still be recommended and maybe SCA’s may be needed? I saw that on the data sheet for the Compleat EG Edited May 31, 2023 by tmw188 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdw12345 Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) Here is some good reading for those that haven’t found this info, https://www.fleetguard.com/s/coolants-chemicals?language=en_GB&ppc_keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4NujBhC5ARIsAF4Iv6cqkLdFao9cNlWJPs1WJKC12Q3fK8yLl8jsvxMo2afryX_uEtaCvxkaAgbPEALw_wcB#-0 Edited June 1, 2023 by Jdw12345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 12 hours ago, tmw188 said: It also appears at least on the ES Compleat EG (blue stuff) and possibly on all of them that testing might still be recommended and maybe SCA’s may be needed? I saw that on the data sheet for the Compleat EG Yup, all very confusing, Still trying to figure out what test to use for the ES Compleat Hybrid (blue stuff). I had an older flyer that said test kit CC36050 which is nowhere to be found. A newer flyer says CC2602. These are the test strips. I had this type of test before prior to having the coolant change. I really never could tell any difference over time, maybe I'm color blind. What I'll probably do it is just bite the bullet and send in a sample for analysis for ~$35. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 Thanks Jeff for that link, I have not seen that particular flyer I’ll call it. I think they have many or they update and change their flyers. It seems they all call out they are low on this, and have none of that most of us don’t understand or know what we require or need. Radiator material make up and engine age play a role. Reverse engineering on some new coolants help make the choice easier I guess. ES Compleat OAT seems to be the go to if unsure. Some European cars require different formulas as shown. What was surprising to me is some may not be a fill and forget coolant that’s somewhat implied with their mileage statements. Still require occasional testing and maybe SCA’s at least for the Compleat Hybrid product that is stated on the product paper. This is just my take away and should be confirmed before buying. 🤷 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdw12345 Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 One thing I always kept in mind during my trucking years in business, I always tried to get to exotic with oils, Lubes and coolants just for the simplicity of being forced to buy on the road in the event of some unforeseen need and not finding what I was using at the time, seems like a person is never near a resource when needed. The ES complete EG is tested with the test strips and the strips do expire, they are usually dated on each individual strip packet, fyi. It’s a big job to do it correctly and personally I would bet “most” shops don’t take the time needed but still charge you for it! JMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweedo Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 When I had my turbo replaced they put in the green stuff, the wrong stuff because I went from an average of 182 degrees to 192. I went to the OAT, I flushed the system 3-times. Now I run 179-180. You will probable never have to change it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 45 minutes ago, Jdw12345 said: I always tried to get to exotic with oils Did you mean to say, you tried to not get exotic? I agree, keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, Gweedo said: When I had my turbo replaced they put in the green stuff, the wrong stuff because I went from an average of 182 degrees to 192. I went to the OAT, I flushed the system 3-times. Now I run 179-180. You will probable never have to change it again. That’s an example for me to bring this up. A lot of the service centers get offended by Us motorhome owners when we want to ask questions and verify what they are doing. Most of us are hands on but we want to be confident in what’s being done when we give up control to someone else. To me this is why many places just say they don’t work on motorhomes because they don’t want to be bothered with us. They typically don’t have the customer service personality for it. It pisses me off when you might be spending multiples of thousand dollars and don’t get the customer service you might reasonably expect. They are so use to their “bread and butter” Fleet customers. Not saying they are all this way but you have to be prepared to be flexible for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadTripper2084 Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 So my rig had the old-school green 50-50 coolant in it that required the DCA filters, test strips, etc. I could never tell a difference on the strips either before and after I changed the coolant filter. Thought about sending off a sample for testing, even collected the sample, but decided to go ahead and get the coolant system flushed and replaced with long-life coolant instead and be done with it, since I had no idea how long it had been in the system. Shop I used recommended Shell Rotella® ELC NF (Nitrite-Free) so that's what I went with. It wasn't particularly expensive, either. https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/products/lubricants-heavy-duty-products/antifreeze-coolant/_jcr_content/par/toptasks.stream/1608168686759/3ecd8f9b24bcb915db9b64cabe790ae608b28380/shell-rotella-extended-life-coolant-nitrite-free-sell-sheet.pdf I'm not a coolant expert, this seems to reference OAT technology and 1.2 million miles, both of which sounded good to me. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Here is a chart for comparison of the different coolants and their specific uses 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdw12345 Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Ray Davis said: Did you mean to say, you tried to not get exotic? I agree, keep it simple. Correct, “I tried not to get any oddball fluids” If you look at Ivin’s chart, the coolant I chose to use is a Universal Extended Life, not to exotic. Thanks for calling it out Ray! Edited June 2, 2023 by Jdw12345 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyL Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Gweedo and others , changed coolant couple years ago, told Fleetpride what we had ( isl 400 Cummins ) Since then it runs about 10 degrees hotter,the new coolant is green . Radiator clean on outside, who knows about inside.Changing thermostat now just in case. Could it be as simple as the wrong coolant? 08 camelot isl 400 side radiator, condenser,hyd cooler, cac then radiator. Voyager says coolant 202 , trans 205 . Thanks , TommyL 08 camelot tag ,Isl 400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, TommyL said: Gweedo and others , changed coolant couple years ago, told Fleetpride what we had ( isl 400 Cummins ) Since then it runs about 10 degrees hotter,the new coolant is green . Radiator clean on outside, who knows about inside.Changing thermostat now just in case. Could it be as simple as the wrong coolant? 08 camelot isl 400 side radiator, condenser,hyd cooler, cac then radiator. Voyager says coolant 202 , trans 205 . Thanks , TommyL 08 camelot tag ,Isl 400 Did you purge the air out of the system? I have to do that on my bikes . . . - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweedo Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 19 hours ago, tmw188 said: That’s an example for me to bring this up. A lot of the service centers get offended by Us motorhome owners when we want to ask questions and verify what they are doing. Most of us are hands on but we want to be confident in what’s being done when we give up control to someone else. To me this is why many places just say they don’t work on motorhomes because they don’t want to be bothered with us. They typically don’t have the customer service personality for it. It pisses me off when you might be spending multiples of thousand dollars and don’t get the customer service you might reasonably expect. They are so use to their “bread and butter” Fleet customers. Not saying they are all this way but you have to be prepared to be flexible for sure. Exactly, I am pretty mechanically inclined and back in the day I managed an automotive shop. To this day I still do all of my own work because of the trust issues, unless it's something beyond my capability (still learning about diesel) or covered by warranty. I'm not knocking all shops, there are some very reputable shops out there, it's a matter of finding the right one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadTripper2084 Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 4 hours ago, Gweedo said: Exactly, I am pretty mechanically inclined and back in the day I managed an automotive shop. To this day I still do all of my own work because of the trust issues, unless it's something beyond my capability (still learning about diesel) or covered by warranty. I'm not knocking all shops, there are some very reputable shops out there, it's a matter of finding the right one. After trying 3 different shops in my area for different jobs and not being thrilled with any of them, I think I finally found one I'm happy with. Of course, a lot depends on the guy they put on your job too. These guys get all the local school bus work, and out of town fleet jobs too for government outfits, even the military for some rigs for their strict maintenance schedules, etc. I talked to the mechanic who did my flush and he explained his process very thoroughly. I think he appreciated the old girl too (Blue Thunder, no the missus). When he was done I told him "it sounds like you know what you're doing". 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyL Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Bob ,no I didn’t purge air , figured after 5000 mi. 2years and no change in coolant level it wasn’t air locked.but ? Pat and Ken ,we do all our work except computers,above my pay grade .Wife still greases MH while I change oil and filter. I just bought the green coolant from Fleetpride . Pat ,I saw your post about green being wrong for your 07, ours being 08 isl400 had me wondering. 08 camelot isl 400 tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cole Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) Lot of information here. Thinking about something as I read this material . Very few diesel locomotives and I suppose other large diesels do not use antifreeze because an eg antifreeze leak that gets into the oil is going to very likely wipe out the bearings. Another reason is that pure water has the highest cooling capability. They keep the water above freezing with a circulating heater when necessary. They do use traditional and inexpensive corrosion inhibitors and additives to protect the liners from cavitation. Wonder how much we are told about these products, including oil, is oftentimes largely the latest and greatest hype from the marketing people with little substance? Edited June 2, 2023 by Gary Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdw12345 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Hers some more material to read. https://cms.fleetguard.com/en_NA/literature/which-fleetguard-coolant-product-right-you/lt36237 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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